Te and clinical roboticness

[ieist]

Does anyone else find Te very detached and cold? "This person has these attributes, to activate them, push these buttons (some Fi here?)". Also, seems this part of Te gets very obvious once Te wants to mess with someone. It's like they look after what objects a person is attracted to (that is the Fi part) then start messing with that to "get to" the person. People seem to think Te is just usefulness but that seems naive, to me. It's extroverted, so there's energy and initiative there, and it's cold towards people due to being logical... Thoughts?

I also wanna ask about , and sadism. Have you ever known or observed people with those functions in their ego block who took pleasure in seeing others waste time and being inefficient? It seems like it could relate to Si somewhat as well, obviously you need some psychological connection to others to want to take care of others (as caregivers do) so it seems used negatively could manifest sort of "parasitically". lungs also made a thread on BDSM and romantic style and infantiles were most into it...

[Anglas]

Yeah, every time lse's notice unproductive guy they start to masturbate.

[fen]

huh? at OP

[ieist]

huh? at OP

Te is associated with facts. Fi is associated with attraction/repulsion. So to Te/Fi, objects have a bunch of properties (Te) that increases the attraction or the repulsion part. So Te would note the external dynamics of objects and try to determine attraction/repulsion strength between various objects. If Te dislikes (is repulsed by it, has bad Fi relations to it) a person (an object), then the Te person could note what the person likes and use that against them, e.g. destroying an object which the disliked person likes, thus hurting the disliked person's Fi. Makes sense?

[fen]

Te is associated with facts. Fi is associated with attraction/repulsion. So to Te/Fi, objects have a bunch of properties (Te) that increases the attraction or the repulsion part. So Te would note the external dynamics of objects and try to determine attraction/repulsion strength between various objects. If Te dislikes (is repulsed by it, has bad Fi relations to it) a person (an object), then the Te person could note what the person likes and use that against them, e.g. destroying an object which the disliked person likes, thus hurting the disliked person's Fi. Makes sense?

I think any type is capable of being hurtful as you are describing.
Something to keep in mind, socionics isn't for explaining behaviors really. It's more for how information is processed....which CAN sort of lead to certain trends sometimes..but these trends don't apply to everyone. I certainly don't believe every LSE is a sadist as you are describing.

[ieist]

Guess I'll inject more content into this thread. @Lobo @glam @Ashton @UDP @somavision @mikemex @consentingadult @FDG @lemontrees
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post577689

I wonder if this relates to copycat behavior somehow
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...0821-Copy-cats
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...an-other-types

I'm guessing could try to sneakily grab ideas, and then start using these ideas when the originator is out of the picture, meaning long-term profit for the ego. Couple this with zero-in on stuff quality and ego providing connections and you got a combination that can easily devour others' ideas for own profit. I wonder if is more strategic about sharing? Maybe , and also reveals less on the internet, leading to stereotyping Beta as bad (but in reality direct) and Delta as good (but in reality sinister). Morality is commonly associated to which seems inherently hypocritical to me, and thus sinister in a way too. The there's which is pretty superficial, so I don't think it internalizes information like does. It just throws it out when it is no longer useful.

if clinical enough could see friendship as pure business "I get this, you get that". And then instantly drop the friendship once it's no longer useful to them, as "thats what people do with friends". They're just tools. Gotta wonder if there's something sociopathic in . Stereotypically it's XLE, but I don't trust stereotypes fully in something as new as socionics. One could argue suggestive is weaker than polr.

Gotta wonder how instinct stackings, E3, E6 and E9 factor into this, they all seem like they can be quite sinister, imo. This is pretty interesting too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36_stratagems

I'm very curious if any of that is NTR. I'm always trying to figure out others, and I know there are others out there who are similar to me in that respect. Knowing if someone is like that - very psychologically/strategically aware is useful, and also what tricks people are likely to employ. This is why I show interest in threads like the ENFj devour INTps braaiiinnzzz thread.

[Beautiful sky]

Does anyone else find Te very detached and cold? "This person has these attributes, to activate them, push these buttons (some Fi here?)". Also, seems this part of Te gets very obvious once Te wants to mess with someone. It's like they look after what objects a person is attracted to (that is the Fi part) then start messing with that to "get to" the person. People seem to think Te is just usefulness but that seems naive, to me. It's extroverted, so there's energy and initiative there, and it's cold towards people due to being logical... Thoughts?

I also wanna ask about , and sadism. Have you ever known or observed people with those functions in their ego block who took pleasure in seeing others waste time and being inefficient? It seems like it could relate to Si somewhat as well, obviously you need some psychological connection to others to want to take care of others (as caregivers do) so it seems used negatively could manifest sort of "parasitically". lungs also made a thread on BDSM and romantic style and infantiles were most into it...

They themselves can waste time doing things that are not productive, like playing video games, but to relax.

[InvisibleJim]

LSEs are very easy to VI.

[willekeurig]

Lol, wtf. LSEs are generous, caring creatures whose main goal in life is to find effective ways to get beer. For friends as well. Like here.

Also, BDSM isn't about being evil and wanting to hurt people.

[Absurd]

I also wanna ask about , and sadism. Have you ever known or observed people with those functions in their ego block who took pleasure in seeing others waste time and being inefficient?

Nah.

[Absurd]

pic

Har dee har, I, myself, don't like wasting time wanting to have the most of "it" for other activities, so it is self-explanatory I'm going to find a way to cut time and do stuff I want to do as fast as possible.

I mean if I were looking forward to dying today, it being on top of my list, and needed stuff done before I would drag my arse out and do those so I can die. I also depends on priorities, so I might not do stuff I think may wait and just get to the main dish.

[ashlesha]

i vaguely got a sense of recognition from the first post but i'm not sure how much i want to say. especially since you progressively got more and more specific and i don't think socionics should really be applied in such a detailed way.

[FDG]

To "mess with people" you need some type of personal motivation, which Te as a function is unlikely to provide, since it's detached. I would assume that, when those behaviors exist, they are mostly caused by a repressed form of .

[ClownsandEntropy]

I certainly haven't noticed this, even to people they've only just met they don't seem standoff-ish. Nor sadistic, if they see someone doing something they consider ineffective they may feel a bit superior though.

[InvisibleHim]

Te is very warm and cuddly. It just wants to help, don't fight it, just breathe slowly... slower now.. shhh..shh...it will get dark soon, and everything will be okay.

[DirectorAbbie]

I am no more sadistic than most people. I have had experience being "clinically robotic." For example, watching someone slip and fall is not funny. It is illogical. Slipping and falling was a waste of time, and if it has caused injury, it will be the source of problems later.

I am most robotic when I haven't been in contact with a dual for a while. Spending time with betas may make me more robotic than spending time alone. If anything, clinical roboticness is masochistic rather than sadistic, because of the way it focuses on independence.

[DirectorAbbie]

They themselves can waste time doing things that are not productive, like playing video games, but to relax.

Watching a movie is unproductive and relaxing. Playing video games is not. It involves a lot of inventory reorganization, focus on efficiency, and often leadership. It's a way to feel productive while enjoying a make-believe world.

[Park]

WTF

[InvisibleJim]

[wacey]

As an information element I can see how one might precieve Te as clinical and robotiness. However, as part of a living psyche, as part of a persons personality and make up, I fail to see how one Information element alone can make someone a robot. The personality, according to the theories (model a), is multifaceted and complex.

In other words, when you meet someone who is Te base what you might be preciecing about them is that they are clinical and cold, you are only get a tiny bit of the picture, a tip of the iceberg as it were. We have an ego, super-ego, I'd and super -I d: two different voices, and two different instincts all put together to form a cohesive whole, or personality type. This was the remarkable conclusions Jung hypothosized and modern psychology has since supported: the human personality is not one solid block inside our heads, but an intertracting interplay between the ego, super-ego, I'd and superid, as well as other factors like the body-mind connections and memories (which themselves are inseperable from emotions and physical sensations). All this means that an individuals personality is made up of little bits and pieces, and the mind gives us the illusion that it is one thing, one type.

In the original post, what I am reading is that Te-doms are cold and clinical, and I disagree with this statement. Because Te-doms also have other parts to their pshyches that cause them to precieve other information elements that can be considered less clinical, such as Fi, very favorably.

I think I also have a problem with the word clinical. Clinical suggests sterile and soley logical. Perhaps true for the information element alone if you are looking for adjectives soley to describe it, but in real people, I have never found to be true that Te-doms are robotic. At least not from how I precieve them. Infact, I simply see them as practical and pragmatic, no matter what "class", or lifestyle they have.

Robots have no sole. The Te-doms got sole that is all covered up. On second thought, maybe they are robots...

[wacey]

In regards to sadomasochism, I think the idea is that infantile and caregiver romance styles fit the giving, taking, reward and punishment that play into s/m. Never experinced it though so who knows?

[wacey]

I am reminded of this LSE I was friends with who was telling me about his mom.

Me: so how is your mom doing these days?

Him: she is not well, she has breast cancer and is getting a double mastectomy, so she is experiencing pshycological tramua sorrounding that.

Me: (in my head: well yeeeeeaaaahhhh she is experiencing tramua... And grieving, and prolly angery, and deeply hurt, and worried and apprehensive, and suffering loss, and concerned for her life, and thinking about what it will be for her after her breasts are removed and on and on and dur...I can see he is trying, and doesn't have the right words, but obviously means well and is saddened himself). What I say? Oh brandon, I am so sorry to hear that, this must be very difficult for her...and for you.

Him: yes it is.

[UDP]

Does anyone else find Te very detached and cold?

Probably a lot of people who don't value Te feel that way.
Especially people who don't really know Te types, or have an affinity for them, might see them as generally cold.
(at the same time, Fi ego types might be most compelled to want to correct them or say wtf you doing, don't you understand how this affects people?)

And yes, many times, Te types can just be cold and emotionally un-connective, particularly less developed, less enlightened, less evolved ones. It generally takes experience and work, and demonstrated reason to care about such things, for some Te types to become 'warmer' - but that depends on a lot of socialization and cultural things as well.

"This person has these attributes, to activate them, push these buttons (some Fi here?)".

What?

Also, seems this part of Te gets very obvious once Te wants to mess with someone. It's like they look after what objects a person is attracted to (that is the Fi part) then start messing with that to "get to" the person. People seem to think Te is just usefulness but that seems naive, to me.

Ok, so it sounds like you're coming from a situation where you're kind of put off by someone who appears to be a Te type.

I guess my suggestion is that realize pettiness and being lame or a douche is not type related... but I think it's most easy to "appreciate" (or get pissed off by) people being douches who value things we don't, because in doing so, the amount of emphasis they are putting on certain things can be felt as significantly annoying.

It's extroverted, so there's energy and initiative there, and it's cold towards people due to being logical... Thoughts?

I suppose what I said above is my thoughts.

I also wanna ask about , and sadism. Have you ever known or observed people with those functions in their ego block who took pleasure in seeing others waste time and being inefficient?

Uh, I've noticed assholes being that way.*

It seems like it could relate to Si somewhat as well, obviously you need some psychological connection to others to want to take care of others (as caregivers do) so it seems used negatively could manifest sort of "parasitically". lungs also made a thread on BDSM and romantic style and infantiles were most into it...

Uh..... seems like you are referring to some things of very unhealthy people.
BDSM is what it is, but, watching people suffer is generally sociopathic. And while Te people certainly can be sociopathic, I don't think that's a general trait that should be associated with socionics; it should be associated with socipathic humans, whatever their type.


*speaking of assholes:

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENTJ_per.html - yes this is MBTI, but, I think it gets at some useful aspects as to why Te dominants can be Assholes. . .

[Beautiful sky]

I'm guessing could try to sneakily grab ideas, and then start using these ideas when the originator is out of the picture, meaning long-term profit for the ego. Couple this with zero-in on stuff quality and ego providing connections and you got a combination that can easily devour others' ideas for own profit. I wonder if is more strategic about sharing? Maybe , and also reveals less on the internet, leading to stereotyping Beta as bad (but in reality direct) and Delta as good (but in reality sinister). Morality is commonly associated to which seems inherently hypocritical to me, and thus sinister in a way too. The there's which is pretty superficial, so I don't think it internalizes information like does. It just throws it out when it is no longer useful.

I have been a victim of this type of Te monetary manipulation, yes. MEAN.
I'm an altruistic person. I help people out of their necessity, because I want them to be well.

[Scapegrace]

I never help people. Whenever I see a homeless kid I lol at them.

[Absurd]

One of my sources just forwarded me a copy of a rather intriguing document about Scapegrace. In the remainder of this letter, I plan to summarize the contents of that document in an effort to knock some sense into Scapegrace. For openers, Scapegrace is known for walking into crowded rooms and telling everyone there that exclusionism is absolutely essential to the well-being of society. Try, if you can, to concoct a statement better calculated to show how cantankerous Scapegrace is. You can't do it. Not only that, but she wants to vend an intolerant mixture of Oblomovism and superstition to a new generation of pouty boors. Such intolerance is felt by all people, from every background.

[Park]

*Cold and robotic greeting* Welcome back, @UDP.


FYI, Te types never use an exclamation point. Not even in greetings.

[Scapegrace]

My sister used to make a sport of going out and egging homeless people on weekends sometimes.

Yeah, and that Te whore is a murderess.

[ashlesha]

My sister used to make a sport of going out and egging homeless people on weekends sometimes.

are you fucking serious

[Scapegrace]

Murder? I believe the proper term is 'social cleansing'.



Yes, actually.

Hey, I think it was a lucky shot. But throwing eggs at homeless people is cunty.

[FDG]

Yes, actually.

GENETIC SOCIOPATHY1111!!!

[Kim]

I never help people. Whenever I see a homeless kid I lol at them.

Nice try.

[Scapegrace]

Nice try.

It's true. I'm known to invite street kids to dinner. Much to the chagrin of waiters all over town. They don't usually have very good table manners.

[Kim]

It's true. I'm known to invite street kids to dinner. Much to the chagrin of waiters all over town. They don't usually have very good table manners.

This I believe.

[Park]

Kim, don't waste your time on this forum, talking to whomever, etc. I know it's better than sunshine and cookies sometimes, but in the long run... it isn't worth it. And I like you. So this is heartfelt roboticness.

[Finale]

I'm guessing could try to sneakily grab ideas, and then start using these ideas when the originator is out of the picture, meaning long-term profit for the ego.

Sounds like you might be confusing Ne with Te. Look at the greatest examples of that in our time (Steve Jobs, etc.) and time and time again, it's Ne that does this, not Te.

Couple this with zero-in on stuff quality and ego providing connections and you got a combination that can easily devour others' ideas for own profit.

Not sure how you could derive either static ethics/morals (more Jungian) vs. collectivist vs. idealist (more Socionically) as the above.

As far as Te being the mean, killer of puppies, double-dipper of potato chips, late returner of library books, cruel mattress tag ripper-offer, crusher of dreams and instigator of pure evil- it's quite simple, really: Te is just misunderstood. For example, when we eat babies and look satisfied afterwards, it's not because we are gloating at the traumatized mother, it's because of the delicious nutrients we just consumed.

[Raver]

tends to come across as harsh at times, but I've gotten the most sound advice from doms even if it was blunt and it enabled me to improve in whichever endeavor I was advised on. The best way to think of it is as tough love imo.

[InvisibleJim]

cruel mattress tag ripper-offer

I rip a tag off a mattress at least once a day.

[Finale]

I rip a tag off a mattress at least once a day.

Be careful, mate. Mattress tags are the gateway drug to playing with matches and running with scissors.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

As far as Te being the mean, killer of puppies, double-dipper of potato chips, late returner of library books, cruel mattress tag ripper-offer, crusher of dreams and instigator of pure evil- it's quite simple, really: Te is just misunderstood. For example, when we eat babies and look satisfied afterwards, it's not because we are gloating at the traumatized mother, it's because of the delicious nutrients we just consumed.

Finale I love you.