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Thread: Enneagram type 4

  1. #401
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    I'll fake it through the day
    With some help from Johnnie Walker red
    Send the poison rain down the drain
    To put bad thoughts in my head
    Two tickets torn in half
    And a lot of nothing to do
    Do you miss me, Miss Misery
    Like you say you do?

    A man in the park
    Read the lines in my hand
    Told me I'm strong
    Hardly ever wrong I said man you mean

    You had plans for both of us
    That involved a trip out of town
    To a place I've seen in a magazine
    That you left lying around
    I don't have you with me but
    I keep a good attitude
    Do you miss me, Miss Misery
    Like you say you do?

    I know you'd rather see me gone
    Than to see me the way that I am
    But I am in the life anyway

    Next door the tv's flashing
    Blue frames on the wall
    It's a comedy of errors, you see
    It's about taking a fall
    To vanish into oblivion
    Is easy to do
    And I try to be but you know me
    I come back when you want me to
    Do you miss me Miss Misery
    Like you say you do?

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    social 4


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    4 with a social instinct
    Last edited by Milo; 09-23-2017 at 02:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    Looking at how Melanie acts while on stage and her body langugage it's clear that she's not a 4 (i think shes sx/sp 7w6, 749). Compare to someone like Lana del Rey whose body language is like "omg omg everyone is looking at me, god im so embarrassed and uncomfortable, what do i do with my body" even though she's done it over a hundred times.



    Im posting it here because I've seen people type Melanie as 4 ("because shes unique") and I'm tired of the misconceptions and mistypings.
    Lana is not embarrassed about showing herself off.

    She is very persistent about it but puts on an image of being a shy introverted girl.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jailbait View Post













    ALSO, if you actually look at Melanie's lyrics around 90% of it is shame or image type related stuff. It fits sx 4 very well and is aggressive and competitive. You are the only person I have seen type her as 7 and it's a ridiculous typing. But I agree with 749 tritype.

    Lana, on the other hand, fits sx 3 very well if you read the descriptions for it. But not sx 4 at all - she isn't aggressive, vindictive, or openly competitive. I know you type her so 4 but she doesn't fit that either - she is not overtly shameful or whiny and only uses sadness in some of her songs as a background image. Instead she is sweet, focused on beauty and materialism, and the struggle between a mask and the person underneath like sx/sp 3 specifically. You also often say she is 7-ish which is very common for sx 3, and other people say she is very 2-ish which is again a common confusion with sx 3.
    Shame based lyrics can be written by 3w4s and 5w4s. It's very rare for 3w4s to sing about achievement and importance so instead they sing about the 4 troubles. It draws more attention to their music. It also doesn't cut them as deep because the 4 is only a wing, so they can wear it on their sleeve and not be bothered by it.

    And Lana is so not a 4.

  6. #406
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    @Milo whats your evidence for that she "fakes being shy and sad"?

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    I'm pretty sure Michael Stipe is 4.

    Oh life, it's bigger
    It's bigger than you
    And you are not me
    The lengths that I will go to
    The distance in your eyes
    Oh no, I've said too much
    I set it up

    That's me in the corner
    That's me in the spotlight
    Losing my religion
    Trying to keep up with you
    And I don't know if I can do it
    Oh no, I've said too much
    I haven't said enough

    I thought that I heard you laughing
    I thought that I heard you sing
    I think I thought I saw you try

    Every whisper
    Of every waking hour
    I'm choosing my confessions
    Trying to keep an eye on you
    Like a hurt, lost and blinded fool, fool
    Oh no, I've said too much
    I set it up

    Consider this
    Consider this, the hint of the century
    Consider this, the slip
    That brought me to my knees, failed
    What if all these fantasies come
    Flailing around
    Now I've said too much

    I thought that I heard you laughing
    I thought that I heard you sing
    I think I thought I saw you try

    But that was just a dream
    That was just a dream

    That's me in the corner
    That's me in the spotlight
    Losing my religion
    Trying to keep up with you
    And I don't know if I can do it
    Oh no, I've said too much
    I haven't said enough

    I thought that I heard you laughing
    I thought that I heard you sing
    I think I thought I saw you try

    But that was just a dream
    Try, cry, why try
    That was just a dream
    Just a dream
    Just a dream, dream

  8. #408
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    4 sp/so


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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post




    4 with a social instinct
    I don't believe that Marilyn was a 4. People have tried so hard to make her more than just a sexsymbol. They've made her seem mysterious, emotional, deep, complicated. The fact is...she was just a sexsymbol and no matter how hard people try to make her seem like she was more, it doesn't change it. I think she was a 3w2 or maybe a 2w3 sx/so. I also think she was ESE or SEE. (More likely ESE though)


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    I think she was sx/so 6w7. I'm getting tired of the 4 mistypes -_- Like what is even remotely 4 about her?

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    Yeah Marilyn had severe anxiety and security issues, to the point where she was completely unable to act, perform, or appear on camera. She nervously imagined everything that could go wrong, feared for her life, chained herself to men in relationships. A 3 is an independent performance machine despite all circumstances and their inner feeling. A 4 would have depended on their mood solely, though still giving it a try out of sheer tragic art after they sought distance. James Dean was the 4 (maybe Brando, too, with some 8 influence - opinions?), Elvis was the 3, Marilyn the 6.

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  16. #416
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    “Do you want me to be a doll forever?”

    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

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    Marina Abramović - Sx 4w5


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    4w5


  19. #419
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    Sp 4 but some of it very relatable.



    What’s really going on at Four is the working through of emotional conflicts—the ones that are more than skin-deep. Everybody’s got those kind of conflicts, but at Point 4, working through isn’t a luxury but a necessity. Early in life, we’re doing what other people are doing: trying to grow up, get a job, get a “hold” on life. But those issues that come up at midlife for other people often come up for Fours at an earlier age, even before adolescence. Fours tend to be serious kids; and they tend to ask Mom and Dad serious questions early on, leaving non-Four parents nonplussed. I suspect that a lot of us little Fours sort of scare our parents by broaching subjects that even they aren’t yet prepared to deal with. And that may account for why Four kids can feel alienated from both parents and other kids: because they’re delving into deep stuff much earlier than everybody else—and they’re going much deeper. And that makes people uncomfortable.

    I’ve written about my difficulty with parents who were probably a Three (my mom) and a Six (my dad); I sometimes joke that they wanted a compliant little Nine to complete the family. My mom’s familiar refrain was, “Why can’t you just learn to say ‘okay’ ?” You can imagine the response that would evoke in a Four! As an adult, my forays into different (but, to them, exotic forms of spiritual exploration) evoked the same puzzlement; they had a hard time understanding why I didn’t just want what other people did.

    Of course, so did I! I spent years wondering the same thing—wondering why I couldn’t settle for what seemed okay for the rest of the populous: a 9 to 5 job working in an office, buying a house, getting married, having kids, and all the rest. But as a Four, it didn’t quite work out for me. Not that Fours don’t do any of those things, but we seldom do all of them—and whatever we do, we don’t do it unreflectively. It’s just not in our nature. It’s one of the things I really like about being a Four: the fact that I can’t help but take the time (and spend the effort) to really work out the ramifications of what I’m doing. I may not always work it out correctly, but I’m always engaged in the process. Afterwards, I’m willing to take responsibility for my choices. And I think that this is something I see in a lot of Fours: when we make decisions, there’s not a lot of second-guessing. We think about things, decide what to do, and then take the consequences, good or bad.

    The difficulty for modern Fours is that a lot of us are searching for the kind of context that doesn’t seem to exist in modern society—for a transformative role that involves the transmutation of intense emotions or sexual energy. That’s why we see so many artists, actors, and depth psychologists that are Fours. But there’s something missing (!) from these roles—something deeper and more basic. Perhaps it is part of the lost feminine mysteries, with their temple dancers, high priestesses, and mystics.

    Whatever it is, it’s not part of the dominant paradigm these days. And that’s why we see it as missing: because it is missing! We’ve lost something in modern life, something deep and mystical and real. It can be found, but it takes a something of a quest to find it, because it’s not right around the corner.

    Fours, like Eights, need something to commit to, something that is truly worthy of our time and energy. When we get committed, we get totally committed, and it can’t be to projects, people, or organizations that we don’t respect. This stuff about Fours coming to terms with “ordinary life”; yes, it’s true, that we need to be able to come to terms with certain things, but sometimes at enneagram events, I’ve felt like people were sort of trying to rub my nose in it—trying to say that I just need to suck it up and settle down to what passes for normality these days. But that kind of prescription doesn’t work for a Four; it only makes us pull away, because we know that other people just don’t understand. As for equanimity: yes, another fine quality, especially if it means the eye within the center of the storm, because that is something I can relate to. But often, it seems to be interpreted as “getting over it”—you know, just letting go of all that intense emotion so you feel nice and calm—so we’re back to transforming Fours into Nines again. (Good luck with that project; it never worked for me.)

    I’ll admit that I am attracted to intense experiences, but I don’t see anything neurotic about that; intense experiences are often transformative experiences, and I am drawn to transformation—for better or worse. Transformation sometimes causes deep suffering, and I can’t say I like that part; but I do see benefit in opening to experiences that allow me to throw off unwanted inner baggage. This is different from being melodramatic, although I’m guessing that authentic (but transformative) suffering and melodrama can look much the same from the outside. SP Fours make a clear distinction between the two; we have a distaste for melodrama, being the most practical of our type. Our inner sensitivity tends to be well-disguised. I put on a good show most of the time in the interests of meeting other people’s expectations. That’s okay; it’s a good discipline, as long as I can let my hair down when I’m by myself or with close friends.
    Getting back to the paper-thin sensitivity thing…it’s both a blessing and a curse. It makes Fours one of the “serious” types. Not that we don’t have a sense of humor, but it’s quirky. We joke about taboo stuff, like death or pain…ha-ha-ha…nobody else does, that is, except Fives and Nines. Fives have an even quirkier sense of humor than we do; and Nines—well, Nines are basically shock-proof. It’s great; you can talk about virtually anything and most Nines will sit companionably by and listen without blinking. No big deal. Neither type puts out “critical vibes,” either, which is really nice. And they tend to like decisive people; and I have no problems making decisions.

    Upon reflection, there have actually been an awful lot of Nines and Fives in my life. Is it because Fours, Fives, and Nines are “withdrawing types”? Enneagram books always make the withdrawal sound like something we shouldn’t be doing. But why not? There’s a lot to be said for solitude. Nines like to “withdraw” into nature, Fives into books, and Fours into art. And we like to withdraw together, too; some of my best gatherings have been with small groups of Nines and Fives. (It’s not that we don’t like to socialize, folks, it’s just that we like a little intimacy and space “apart from the madding crowd.”)

    I get along relatively well with most other types, too, although I seldom have Threes as close friends; they’re just too driven and/or involved in the hustle-bustle of life. And that gets me over-amped. I admire most the Ones I’ve known; they always seem to be involved in doing meaningful work or upholding some admirable principle. They can be touchy, though; and some of them seem defensive around Fours. (I guess we’re at the wrong end of the connecting point spectrum.) Twos are warm and fun-loving, but in some things they act friendlier than they really are, and I’ve gotten my feelings hurt at times. I’m much more cautious around Twos than I was in my Twenties. Sevens are fun (at least, when they are not those super-serious “overly-reformed” Sevens that don’t know how to relax). But like Twos, they can some time be initially engaging only to wander off later—and that’s hard on me, once I’ve formed a bond with somebody.

    Sixes are interesting types, but I never know how the relationship is going to go. It’s my impression that Sixes either put Fours on a pedestal or find them scary, or both. It’s hard to know what’s going on in their heads. Learning about the enneagram helped me not to tease them about their anxiety, something I used to do before I realized how real it is for them. I think this is a blind spot for most Fours; we might get “down,” but we don’t really get anxious. In some ways, we could really use a little more fear because it would make us more cautious—and more understanding of other people’s fears.

    Eights are like our polar opposite. I really enjoy Eights; they make me laugh. But the relationship can become explosive; there’s a lot of intensity in the air when you get a Four and Eight in the same room. Strangely, I’ve noticed that we can also scare one another at times. Eights can be intimidated by a Four’s way with words while Fours can be intimidated by an Eight’s ability to get out in life and do “big things”—like plunge into jungles or war zones. And then there is their “big energy”; it could really hurt if any Eight decided to unload on you…. One of my best friends is a 9w8, and she’s very easy to be around; she has the impassivity of the Nine and the strength of the Eight, so there’s the big energy but in a calm outer package. She doesn’t mind my intensity and I don’t mind her occasional grumpiness.

    Now that I’m older, I don’t mind being sensitive as much as I used to. I have ways to take care of myself and don’t expect other people to do it for me. Finding the enneagram helped me better understand where people are coming from, so a lot of things I used to take personally just rock off my back now. I might not like the energy, but I know it’s not my fault when people get reactive, anxious, or hostile. Also, I’m more aware of what I get from that sensitivity: the ability to deeply empathize and be receptive to people who are in genuine pain.

    Arthur Koestler spoke about the tragic and trivial planes; I think he might have been a Four. He found himself in a lot of intense situations, and I think that’s the way he liked it: living more on the tragic than the trivial plane. By tragic, he didn’t mean sad, though; he meant highly-charged, intense, or numinous. And by trivial, he didn’t mean worthless or unimportant; he meant situations where the energy is not super-intense, as during an ordinary day. During the Spanish Civil War and WWII, he found himself in lots of intense situations. Afterwards, he probed into deep topics (like the nature of creativity and systems theory) and did a lot of writing about what he found….From my experience, Fours are okay with ordinary life as long as we manage to find some way to be in touch with something deeper in life. The problem with ordinariness comes when ordinariness is all there is. I don’t know any Four who can live without depth or a sense of meaning, however we conceive of it. We just can’t live on the surface of life all the time; we starve without something deeper. All the stuff that nourishes us is deep in the earth, where the mysteries dwell...my idea of a good time is to envision myself sitting by a deep pool in the forest, just drinking up the energy there.

    http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/on-being-a-four.html

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    sx/sp 479


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    so/sx 4w5



    Took the fireworks and the vanity
    The circuit board and the city streets
    Shooting star, swaying palm tree
    Laid it at the arbiter's feet

    If I could change my mind, change the paradigm
    Prepare myself for another life
    Forgive myself for the many times
    I was cruel to something helpless and weak

    But here it comes, that heavy love
    I'm never going to move it alone
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    Tag it on a tenement wall
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    Someone's got to share in the load
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    I'm never going to move it alone

    I was dressed in white, touched by something pure
    Death obsessed like a teenager
    Sold my tortured youth, piss and vinegar
    I'm still angry with no reason to be

    At the architect who imagined this
    For the everyman, blessed Sisyphus
    Slipping steadily into madness
    Now that's the only place to be free

    But here it comes, that heavy love
    You're never going to move it alone
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    Tattooed on a criminal's arm
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    Someone got to share in the load
    Here it comes, that heavy love
    You're never going to move it alone

    No, I don't want to play
    It's a shell game, it's a shell game
    Distorted sounds on oscilloscopes
    Distorted facts, I could never cope
    My private life is an inside joke
    No one will explain it to me

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    This is rule #1 in the SX 4w3 codex: One does not simply love a normal, unaccomplished person from this decade or your social circle.



    Nope, gotta fall in love with someone you can't have. #struggle #statuefetish


    @Shaebette true?

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    @Chae Very true. There has to be an obstacle. HAS to. Otherwise would it really be love?

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    @Chae Very true. There has to be an obstacle. HAS to. Otherwise would it really be love?
    Exactly, you get me. Gives the bittersweet dose of 4 suffering in love Feeding off the hard life there, not good. It seems that the mechanism behind that is wanting to feel alive with SX, and romantic victimhood is a good identity to cling to. Also produces a lot of inspiration, truly, while being able to keep a distance.

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  27. #427
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    Sp/so 4w3, either 451 or 458

  28. #428
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    So is it true that type 4 are special snowflakers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    This is rule #1 in the SX 4w3 codex: One does not simply love a normal, unaccomplished person from this decade or your social circle.



    Nope, gotta fall in love with someone you can't have. #struggle #statuefetish


    @Shaebette true?
    too real

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    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



  31. #431
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  32. #432
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    Deeeefinitely 7 fixed. So theatrical. 478 it is. I saw a comment once on one of her performances that said something like "she is one of those people who are spilling of creativity and cant contain it", and 478 is triple creative so that makes sense.


  33. #433
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    another 478


  34. #434
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    Default 4w5 So/Sx > Sx/So (459 or 469)



    Used to love this when it came out... ^^'
    Last edited by Olimpia; 12-02-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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  35. #435
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    Default 4w5 (461), Sx

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    *********** 21-04-19:
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  36. #436
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    Most 4s have naturally or dyed dark hair (at least for a while; some may experiment with artificial colours).
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    *********** 21-04-19:
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  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Most 4s have naturally or dyed dark hair (at least for a while; some may experiment with artificial colours).
    what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet View Post
    what?
    Yep.

    Just look at all those goth and emo kids.

    It correlates with wanting to look "dark and mysterious".
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    *********** 21-04-19:
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  39. #439
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    Default 4w5 (SO blindspot) vs 1w9



    Overall theme of the video is 4w5-1w9-6w5.
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    *********** 21-04-19:
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  40. #440
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    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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