SLEs saying "I'm an Alpha male" (ESTp)

[Beautiful sky]

What do SLE mean when they say "I'm an Alpha male" in a very affirmative tone?

I went to Whole Foods on the weekend and the customer service person behind the sweets stand was SLE. I wanted to order macrons for my sister. I asked him which one was good he said he wouldn't get them because "I'm an alpha male" I don't eat fruity sweets like that.

I thought, this is the second time that I've met an SLE who says that they are an alpha male. What does that mean?

[Aylen]

I would think a guy was insecure and seeking validation from others if he told me he was an alpha male, in a casual unrelated conversation, and not completely joking. An "alpha male" would let his presence speak for itself. I would think...

[Enoch]

In this context, I don't think its a quantum leap to determine what was implied

If humanity could be reduced to simple animal behavior, as it is studied, an 'alpha male' generally has the best choice of food, and mate-

Anthropomorphized, it is then dressed up and colored in different forms of lifestyle choice, and other social milieu, or which culture your lens looks thru

[ouronis]

It means he might want the candy but he denies it to himself because he wants to have a certain image, though like others have pointed out, if he was actually an alpha male, it was said tongue in cheek. Otherwise you should point and laugh at him for his naivete.

[Velvet]

I would think a guy was insecure and seeking validation from others if he told me he was an alpha male, in a casual unrelated conversation, and not completely joking. An "alpha male" would let his presence speak for itself. I would think...

That was my exact thought but somehow was too shy to express it, an alpha male acts as such and does not need to announce it like this.

[Olimpia]

It depends on how conceited the guy is. Generally, when an SLE says he is an alpha male seriously, that means he believes himself to be more powerful and less of a "nice guy" than most other males.

In the context the OP has mentioned, this SLE was insecure about his "alpha status", meaning he feels the need to assert his dominance (or lack thereof ) verbally to feel more powerful and in control. Maybe this SLE was an E-8 or SX E-6.

[Beautiful sky]

It depends on how conceited the guy is. Generally, when an SLE says he is an alpha male seriously, that means he believes himself to be more powerful and less of a "nice guy" than most other males.

In the context the OP has mentioned, this SLE was insecure about his "alpha status", meaning he feels the need to assert his dominance (or lack thereof ) verbally to feel more powerful and in control. Maybe this SLE was an E-8 or SX E-6.

Ohhhh...both times my guy friend was with me. My friend is hot. Both were very good looking

[Satan]

it's just posturing, jab him about something.

[Satan]

when someone says "i'm the boss", i'm like the boss of what?

same goes for "in charge", or otherwise trying to state one's position. fuck 'em.

[Satan]

It means he might want the candy but he denies it to himself because he wants to have a certain image, though like others have pointed out, if he was actually an alpha male, it was said tongue in cheek. Otherwise you should point and laugh at him for his naivete.

either way a jab doesn't hurt. if reacting negatively it kind of shows they're coming from a point of weakness.

[ouronis]

either way a jab doesn't hurt. if reacting negatively it kind of shows they're coming from a point of weakness.

We are still predators..

[xerx]

I don't eat fruity sweets like that... What does that mean?

It means he's a masculine Japanese salaryman. "Real" Japanese men don't eat sweets.

[silke]

He could have meant it as a joke. I would take it as such.

[Olimpia]

Ohhhh...both times my guy friend was with me. My friend is hot. Both were very good looking

Ha, interesting. Yeah, he had to show he was cooler than your guy friend to feel better about himself.
What type is your guy friend?

[Beautiful sky]

Ha, interesting. Yeah, he had to show he was cooler than your guy friend to feel better about himself.
What type is your guy friend?

Oh my god. ..the super hot type who I've never dated. Idk he could be SEI.

[Satan]

It's usually pretty obvious who are alpha, and who are beta...


The strong stand tall, while the weak cower and graze like sheep.

The thing is - if you're strong - you shouldn't need to stay you're strong. If you're alpha you shouldn't need to show you're alpha.

And restraint, and being humble are important qualities -

The thing is, if you think you can't be alpha and eat sweets then you're "trying hard" to be alpha, and probably am not.

If you don't want to eat sugar, don't eat sugar. If you want to eat sugar eat sugar. But if you're fat / have diabetes and eat sugar and have health problems then you really shouldn't eat sugar. Actually - no-one should really eat sugar - it's poisoneous - but by doing things not at all, and having excessive self-restraint, it's not will power that is, but slavery to the super ego.

And in a way saying you're alpha is inviting to be challenged. It's like saying you can't touch me, which creates a backlash effect.

[xerx]

All this Alpha/Beta male nonsense is about antisocial morons putting their broken self-image on a pedestal. Social structures are highly varied and context-dependent. Humans aren't Gorillas--- get over it.

[mikemex]

From what I know this is a reference to the Greek alphabet, popularized through the Judeo-Christian expansion. Alpha is the first letter of that alphabet and omega is the last. So when someone claims to be Alpha, he means he's "first". It's generally used as a classical form of rating, like "A+" "B-", etc. A term is mostly applied to social hierarchy, meaning to be on top of the scale. It was popular in the Hebrew world because it was a heavily Beta influenced culture. And the whole ancient world was influenced by the Greeks.

Since there is a lot of us who don't give a shit about social dominance, it's mostly an annoying display of arrogance. But it may as well hold some truth to it (when properly applied). I suppose in the dating field, there are more desirable mates than others. Those would be top rated, call it Alpha or whatever.

[xerx]

Having good posture and animal magnetism improves your immediate attraction rating. For political / economic / academic power, it's always a nerdy technocrat running the show. When you get the power, you get the women. --- Tony Montana

[Olimpia]

Since there is a lot of us who don't give a shit about social dominance, it's mostly an annoying display of arrogance. But it may as well hold some truth to it (when properly applied). I suppose in the dating field, there are more desirable mates than others. Those would be top rated, call it Alpha or whatever.

I could see Betas valuing social dominance more than any other quadra.

[Velvet]

I could see Betas valuing social dominance more than any other quadra.

Gamma are not very far, especially LIEs

[Olimpia]

Gamma are not very far, especially LIEs

True. Could be an Se-Ni valuing matter. I know of a male LIE who is very concerned about alpha/beta/omega guys. He's also Sx/So, I think that makes guys even more aware of social hierarchies.

[Satan]

True. Could be an Se-Ni valuing matter. I know of a male LIE who is very concerned about alpha/beta/omega guys. He's also Sx/So, I think that makes guys even more aware of social hierarchies.

What's omega?

[Olimpia]

What's omega?

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/b...mega-male.html

Mostly the term is negative, referring to a guy who has given up on doing anything significant in life and establishing any closer relationships with people.
And/or someone who's being a "creep".

[Satan]

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/b...mega-male.html

Mostly the term is negative, referring to a guy who has given up on doing anything significant in life and establishing any closer relationships with people.
And/or someone who's being a "creep".

sounds lame, i never hear anyone saying it though?

[Beautiful sky]

That was my exact thought but somehow was too shy to express it, an alpha male acts as such and does not need to announce it like this.

They can to give themselves merit and a place so to say

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/b...mega-male.html

Mostly the term is negative, referring to a guy who has given up on doing anything significant in life and establishing any closer relationships with people.
And/or someone who's being a "creep".

but as long as you're alive aren't you still a part of the social system?

sounds lame, i never hear anyone saying it though?

I have. I have a friend who declares independence from society and tries so hard to identify the patterns of people's behavior and stay away from what he calls "the monkey call" Which supposedly what us people do when we engage with others.

[Aylen]

sounds lame, i never hear anyone saying it though?

The term "alpha" was coined in 1974 by Rudolph Schenkel, a Swiss animal behaviorist.

The Omega Wolf is the male or female at the bottom of the hierarchy. The omega Wolf is usually the last to feed at the site of a pack kill. The omega seems to be the scapegoat for the other Wolves and generally slinks and submits at the least act of aggression by others. When the alpha is in a particularly grouchy mood he may not allow the omega to feed, or constantly dominate him or her. The omega plays an important role in the pack by acting as a kind of social glue, allowing frustration to be vented without actual acts of war, which could threaten the pack structure, from breaking out. It is interesting to note that in packs that have been observed losing their omega, the entire pack has entered into a long period of mourning where the entire pack stops hunting and just lays around looking miserable. Omegas have been known to become stronger and literally fight their way back up the ranks to take a place among the subordinates; this can happen if they repeated win challenge against other Wolves.

http://www.runningwiththewolves.org/Behavior1.htm

[Adam Strange]

http://www.runningwiththewolves.org/Behavior1.htm

Humans aren't wolves, but the part in the link which talked about pack leaders attaining their positions by being respected, I think, is true. Respect comes from defending the organization from external threats and internal, personal attacks, and from protecting and respecting the other members of the organization. Sometimes, that looks a lot like serving them.

My first supervisory job was as production manager for a company in Detroit, not far from the trailer park shown in the movie Eight Mile. I had graduated from the University with a pretty abstract degree, and the guys I was supervising were pretty rough. They drank and did a lot of drugs, they rode to work in black leather on Harleys, they got into fights that made them look like they got run over by a lawnmower, and they liked their guns.

When I was told on a Friday I would be supervising these guys, hiring, firing, and generally keeping them in line, as an LIE my first thought was "POWER! (Two fists in the air!) I can have these guys line up, lock arms, and do a Rockettes high-kick musical number on the factory floor." Then I thought, Naaaahhhh. I'd have an "accident" in a dark, oily corner of the plant in the first week if I did that. There are plenty of opportunities to get seriously hurt in a factory, and I had already had my foot nailed to the floor and a spike put through my shoulder blade and had my hands opened up several times (it's chicken bones in there!), and those were actual accidents, not on-purposes. So I was terrified about how I was going to act toward them. Not terrified because I was afraid of them (you can't show fear, and I wasn't afraid of them, anyway), but terrified that I would screw up the job by acting like an asshole. You can't fake how you feel about people. They know what you are thinking.

By Monday morning, I still hadn't figured out what I was going to do. I felt I had to have a philosophy of management, not a fake, pasted on set of behaviors, and on the forty-five minute drive to work, I figured it out. I would treat them like the star players on a football team, and I was the water boy. I would make sure that they had everything they needed to do their jobs, and would otherwise get out of their way. I would tell them what to do, but not how to do it. And to upper management, the successes belonged to the guys on the floor, and the failures were mine. And every time one of these guys was standing in front of me, I was thinking about what it was about that guy that I respected.

I did all that, and something unexpected happened. They started to respect me, and they fought to keep my respect. They showed up on time, they worked extra hours, theft disappeared, and we started to set production records.

I wasn't acting like an Alpha male in the conventional sense, I think, but if we had a wolf pack, it was definitely formed from mutual service and mutual respect.

[Leader]

Hey Maritsa, it all depends. Could you read his facial expressions, as in could you tell if he was being kind of joking or being dead serious. Saying something like that, to me, sounds really corny but whatever. My guess, based on why -I- would say something like this myself, would be that he just wanted to look more tough or manly. Just macho man posturing basically. To paraphrase him if he was really serious about it, its like saying "I don't like soft shit, im too manly for that, that's for girls or weak punks and I would never be caught dead eating something like that so I can't help you."

....All types can say that they are "an alpha male". And the concept of these sort of hierarchy is real. Humans are social animals, and if you are aware of the socionics socion, you will see this hierarchy in action when you are around people. ESTP saying that is just Se bravado. From what I've seen in life, ESTP really are the personification of "alpha male", the most manly type...not macho man some types like ESTjs can come across as, but just really masculine. I don't know how to explain it, I need to use better vocabulary.

People usually form cliques, with each group having their own little roles such as leader, follower, etc.

Take me for example, I can be gregarious, wild, and exciting, but I also like to keep to myself, im a loner. My fi is very weak so I have no tolerance for disrespect or disloyalty and burn bridges without a second thought. I'm the unusually quiet guy in background that is for some reason capturing your attention. I can be commanding and am very strong willed but I can come across as timid and soft-spoken, especially to other men who try to take advantage of this and end up getting hurt. This is because i'm at ease, just observing whats around me and in control of myself. I see "everything", as in whats going on at the current moment, how people are communicating, people's states (how they are feeling, state of mind, etc), what current goals that need to be accomplished, things like that; so when people get to know me, even though they don't like to admit it, they are surprised that they feel so safe around me and like that I can be counted on to always get the job done. I'm like an immovable wall, you'll only hurt yourself trying to pressure me, but at the same time you can lean on me for support. "Speak softly but carry a big stick". I don't have to do much when confronted, I can find a way to command you into doing what I want without lifting a finger or raising a voice, but you will still feel the pressure from afar. I've gotten very good at this, I don't like getting angry, my temper is bad and that is unhealthy so I just stay calm and let the situation play out and will strike at the most vital point.

My SeTi is super strong, and its like every action or word spoken has a powerful impression on people even when I try to tone it down, good or bad. I take up the most space, physically or mentally, literally and figuratively.
I can be very affectionate, I do the little things like holding doors, asking if your okay if I sense something is wrong, telling women that they look pretty when I notice them dress up without trying to get anything out of them, stuff like that. I can get all the female attention this way if I wanted to, they end up falling in love me with me for some reason, and men do not like me when they realize this. I raise the energy level in the room and they feel intimidated and it usually ends up with becoming a "me against the world" type of thing, they'll plot and scheme and gossip just like women do just so I look bad and get in trouble, but I end up winning anyways and its makes me look better. It is kind of sad knowing that I will never be able to get close to other people, that I will always be the one that people love to hate and blame, but its been like this all my life so im use to it.

That's alpha, its like the saying "its always lonely at the top". Always in control of the situation, even when others are unaware of it themselves. Being in charge, domineering, macho, whatever, does not make you "alpha".

[Beautiful sky]

Hey Maritsa, it all depends. Could you read his facial expressions, as in could you tell if he was being kind of joking or being dead serious. Saying something like that, to me, sounds really corny but whatever. My guess, based on why -I- would say something like this myself, would be that he just wanted to look more tough or manly. Just macho man posturing basically. To paraphrase him if he was really serious about it, its like saying "I don't like soft shit, im too manly for that, that's for girls or weak punks and I would never be caught dead eating something like that so I can't help you."

....All types can say that they are "an alpha male". And the concept of these sort of hierarchy is real. Humans are social animals, and if you are aware of the socionics socion, you will see this hierarchy in action when you are around people. ESTP saying that is just Se bravado. From what I've seen in life, ESTP really are the personification of "alpha male", the most manly type...not macho man some types like ESTjs can come across as, but just really masculine. I don't know how to explain it, I need to use better vocabulary.

People usually form cliques, with each group having their own little roles such as leader, follower, etc.

Take me for example, I can be gregarious, wild, and exciting, but I also like to keep to myself, im a loner. My fi is very weak so I have no tolerance for disrespect or disloyalty and burn bridges without a second thought. I'm the unusually quiet guy in background that is for some reason capturing your attention. I can be commanding and am very strong willed but I can come across as timid and soft-spoken, especially to other men who try to take advantage of this and end up getting hurt. This is because i'm at ease, just observing whats around me and in control of myself. I see "everything", as in whats going on at the current moment, how people are communicating, people's states (how they are feeling, state of mind, etc), what current goals that need to be accomplished, things like that; so when people get to know me, even though they don't like to admit it, they are surprised that they feel so safe around me and like that I can be counted on to always get the job done. I'm like an immovable wall, you'll only hurt yourself trying to pressure me, but at the same time you can lean on me for support. "Speak softly but carry a big stick". I don't have to do much when confronted, I can find a way to command you into doing what I want without lifting a finger or raising a voice, but you will still feel the pressure from afar. I've gotten very good at this, I don't like getting angry, my temper is bad and that is unhealthy so I just stay calm and let the situation play out and will strike at the most vital point.

My SeTi is super strong, and its like every action or word spoken has a powerful impression on people even when I try to tone it down, good or bad. I take up the most space, physically or mentally, literally and figuratively.
I can be very affectionate, I do the little things like holding doors, asking if your okay if I sense something is wrong, telling women that they look pretty when I notice them dress up without trying to get anything out of them, stuff like that. I can get all the female attention this way if I wanted to, they end up falling in love me with me for some reason, and men do not like me when they realize this. I raise the energy level in the room and they feel intimidated and it usually ends up with becoming a "me against the world" type of thing, they'll plot and scheme and gossip just like women do just so I look bad and get in trouble, but I end up winning anyways and its makes me look better. It is kind of sad knowing that I will never be able to get close to other people, that I will always be the one that people love to hate and blame, but its been like this all my life so im use to it.

That's alpha, its like the saying "its always lonely at the top". Always in control of the situation, even when others are unaware of it themselves. Being in charge, domineering, macho, whatever, does not make you "alpha".

Dead serious

[summerprincess]

SLEs don't want their precious masculinity to be challenged. I know one who refuses to wear flip flops because they are he thinks they are too feminine, and not just for him, but for any man. To him, men should stick to their prescribed roles in society and women should stick to theirs.

[Eliza Thomason]

IMO, its just joking. My SLE son likes joking to socialize. He'll joke along the lines of "I am a stud", said in a totally serious tone, because I think he enjoys peoples' "Are your for real?" expressions at his comment. I have seen him go back and forth with his EIE friend, like, when admiring a silly pic of the two of them, he comments, "Look what a stud I am" and she answers, "I'm such an awesome babe" and then him more on him, and her more on her, and probably some off-color joking... Just silly banter, and they get into it.

[Beautiful sky]

IMO, its just joking. My SLE son likes joking to socialize. He'll joke along the lines of "I am a stud", said in a totally serious tone, because I think he enjoys peoples' "Are your for real?" expressions at his comment. I have seen him go back and forth with his EIE friend, like, when admiring a silly pic of the two of them, he comments, "Look what a stud I am" and she answers, "I'm such an awesome babe" and then him more on him, and her more on her, and probably some off-color joking... Just silly banter, and they get into it.

"I'm powerful now!" hahaha

[Olimpia]

IMO, its just joking. My SLE son likes joking to socialize. He'll joke along the lines of "I am a stud", said in a totally serious tone, because I think he enjoys peoples' "Are your for real?" expressions at his comment. I have seen him go back and forth with his EIE friend, like, when admiring a silly pic of the two of them, he comments, "Look what a stud I am" and she answers, "I'm such an awesome babe" and then him more on him, and her more on her, and probably some off-color joking... Just silly banter, and they get into it.

I am in the mood for such banter now, but no Beta in sight.

[Beautiful sky]

I am in the mood for such banter now, but no Beta in sight.

AWW. Come over i have TONS of BETA FRIENDS I'm a relationship junkie. LOL

[Aylen]

IMO, its just joking. My SLE son likes joking to socialize. He'll joke along the lines of "I am a stud", said in a totally serious tone, because I think he enjoys peoples' "Are your for real?" expressions at his comment. I have seen him go back and forth with his EIE friend, like, when admiring a silly pic of the two of them, he comments, "Look what a stud I am" and she answers, "I'm such an awesome babe" and then him more on him, and her more on her, and probably some off-color joking... Just silly banter, and they get into it.

I was talking to an SLE friend yesterday and mentioned this little boy I know who is very sensitive and plays with girl dolls. I was like, "I bet you were just like that as a boy!" He started going on about football and playing sports, rough playing with sticks as swords, etc... I said, "It's ok sweetie, you don't have to prove your manliness to me.". He puffs up his chest and does the bicep show off and says, "Yeah, baby, this is all man." We both started cracking up. It was so funny and exaggerated. We play like that all the time. I call him "princess" sometimes just so he will get indignant and do his tough guy act. It's fun.

I am the only person who can get away with the "princess" comment, ftr.

[Olimpia]

I was talking to an SLE friend yesterday and mentioned this little boy I know who is very sensitive and plays with girl dolls. I was like, "I bet you were just like that as a boy!"

When my LSI cousin was a kid, he used to play with toy cars and some dolls. I would tease him about it usually, haha.

[Eliza Thomason]

I am in the mood for such banter now, but no Beta in sight.

Aw. Its not the kind of banter I ever engaged in (I'm the type that looks agape: "Are you serious?!") but he is truly his own person, and when he and his friend banter and just act silly like this I am glad to see him happy and in his element, even though its not my element....

I am hoping my son meets an IEI when he starts junior college this year after his "gap year". He was dating a wonderful INTj where he was out west - I met her and really liked her - but I was a bit concerned for the long-term prospects, especially for her, in the "worse position", as Supervisee/Audited. (I kept that concern to myself, though, and just prayed about the right outcome to happen). But they are both going off in completely different directions for college now and decided to remain as friends.

I don't think he has ever dated an IEI and I keep praying he will meet one, so that he can get to know how nice that company can be for him. (I am enjoying life with my Dual and I want him to have that too!). Since IEI's tend to be homebodies [right?], college would be a good place, since the IEIs there have to get out. Since he sees everything and is not afraid to strike up a conversation with anyone, and he makes his presence known (usually by joking, often a play-on-words or a comment referring to the insanity of a situation), it could happen... (And I think his LII girlfriend will have no problem meeting an ESE guy at college so I pray that for her too).

.. All this Mom-plotting. But I keep it to myself almost entirely and pray about my biggest concerns.

[Eliza Thomason]

Thanks for the thanks, 13iokenesis! I decided to edit it out. I always try to protect my son's privacy (he should share what he wants of himself, not what I want) but i was just feeling so glad about his accomplishments and glad he will be soon nearer after his year far away... so, thus the 2nd thoughts...

[Olimpia]

I just thought this photo screamed SLE.