Hello I have returned after over 4 years

[Raver]

It has been a long four years since I've been in this forum. I believe the last time was April 2007. I was about 21 then, now I'm 25. My first name was Young and Confused, then I changed my name to Traveler. I'd thought I never return to this place to be honest.

However, after thinking I was ENFP for like 7 years, since I was 18, and then coming to the realization recently that I'm most likely an INTP was definitely a shock. Anyways, realizing the only people I hung out with were mainly gammas, realizing I came across to people as someone that was shy/unemotional and reading the INTP description, which fit me to a tee made me come to this conclusion.

I see a few regulars here, but most of the people here are pretty new. Well, I'm just here to get some answers, how long I'll be here, I don't know. All I can say is I am definitely not young and confused about life like I was when I joined this forum at 19, now I'm definitely young and aware after gaining more life experience, hence the new name. So I guess this is me rejoining this forum as a different personality and as a more mature person, let's see how it goes this time around.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Welcome back....hope you are not disappointed with your return.

[717495]

Salutations.

[Creepy-bg]

wb

[1981slater]

Hello!

The more I know, the more I realize I don't know

[Gilly]

Wow, its been a while. Welcome back.

[DirectorAbbie]

Wow. I must be new to you.

[silverchris9]

Hello!

[FDG]

Hey, hello there! I remember you

[Raver]

Nice to see some familiar faces are still here: Sub, Bio, Slater, Gilly, FDG and some new faces: Poli, Abbie and Chris. Thanks for the welcome!

[Suz]

Hey Young&Aware! I am new to you as well... just started on my socionics journey about a year and a half ago! Welcome back!

So what made you reassess your socionics type? How did you realize you were coming across shy and unemotional? I think IEEs can come across that way too at times, though...

[woofwoofl]

Welcome back! so far, I think you might be my dual... and from the pic, I get Irrational from you, a slight edge for / over /, and a bit of a resemblance to MensSuperMateriam (an ILI) in the eyes and expression, where lots of nonverbal communication would take place...

[Creepy-ssss]

Welcome back! so far, I think you might be my dual... and from the pic, I get Irrational from you, a slight edge for / over /, and a bit of a resemblance to MensSuperMateriam (an ILI) in the eyes and expression, where lots of nonverbal communication would take place...

I see what you're talking about, but I do not put excessive emphasis in V.I. Anyway I agree that his gaze seems to express introversion and intuition, not sure beyond that.

The OP also apparently manifests difficulties for expressing emotions in front of a chamera, although in a less severe way than myself. Is this a common sign of Fe PoLR, or at least weak Fe?

I find a bit strange doubting between ILI and IEE. Some supposed logical males are in fact ethical, but misunderstanding in the opposite way should be very uncommon. Which one is your enneagram, YoungAndAware? They're very different systems, but there's a statistical trend for some sociotypes and enneagrams. If you're an E4 or E7, both of them are very uncommon for ILIs whereas common for IEEs. If you're E5 you're very likely ILI (I've not seen any IEE E5), and if you're E6 or E9 you could be any of them.

A small suggestion. You're asking your type in different places (VI; ILI and IEE comparison). IMO it would be much more efficient concentrating the efforts in only one "type me" thread.

[Raver]

Welcome back! so far, I think you might be my dual... and from the pic, I get Irrational from you, a slight edge for / over /, and a bit of a resemblance to MensSuperMateriam (an ILI) in the eyes and expression, where lots of nonverbal communication would take place...

I see what you're talking about, but I do not put excessive emphasis in V.I. Anyway I agree that his gaze seems to express introversion and intuition, not sure beyond that.

The OP also apparently manifests difficulties for expressing emotions in front of a chamera, although in a less severe way than myself. Is this a common sign of Fe PoLR, or at least weak Fe?

I find a bit strange doubting between ILI and IEE. Some supposed logical males are in fact ethical, but misunderstanding in the opposite way should be very uncommon. Which one is your enneagram, YoungAndAware? They're very different systems, but there's a statistical trend for some sociotypes and enneagrams. If you're an E4 or E7, both of them are very uncommon for ILIs whereas common for IEEs. If you're E5 you're very likely ILI (I've not seen any IEE E5), and if you're E6 or E9 you could be any of them.

A small suggestion. You're asking your type in different places (VI; ILI and IEE comparison). IMO it would be much more efficient concentrating the efforts in only one "type me" thread.

My enneagram is 5w6, it just seems to fit me, but I guess that contradicts me being an IEE. I agree, I should of approached the VI differently.

[Creepy-ssss]

My enneagram is 5w6, it just seems to fit me, but I guess that contradicts me being an IEE

Then the IEE option is very unlikely. The next step would be understanding what an ILI is for confirming it. If you find troubles (or even if not) for differentiating both types through functions I suggest you taking a look to Reinin dichotomies (at least those which are well observed in users) and cognitive styles. It was useful for me for my particular doubts.

[Raver]

My enneagram is 5w6, it just seems to fit me, but I guess that contradicts me being an IEE

Then the IEE option is very unlikely. The next step would be understanding what an ILI is for confirming it. If you find troubles (or even if not) for differentiating both types through functions I suggest you taking a look to Reinin dichotomies (at least those which are well observed in users) and cognitive styles. It was useful for me.

Thanks, I'll look into it.

[Suz]

My enneagram is 5w6, it just seems to fit me, but I guess that contradicts me being an IEE

Then the IEE option is very unlikely. The next step would be understanding what an ILI is for confirming it. If you find troubles (or even if not) for differentiating both types through functions I suggest you taking a look to Reinin dichotomies (at least those which are well observed in users) and cognitive styles. It was useful for me for my particular doubts.

Galen is Fi-IEE and 5w6 isn't he?

[Raver]

Hey Young&Aware! I am new to you as well... just started on my socionics journey about a year and a half ago! Welcome back!

So what made you reassess your socionics type? How did you realize you were coming across shy and unemotional? I think IEEs can come across that way too at times, though...

I just realized I came across to most people as shy and unemotional most of the time with most people. Maybe with certain people and moments I come across as very uninhibited and emotional, but only a minority of the time. Maybe this behaviour is not type related, but I just look at most extroverts and feel they are much more uninhibited and socially savvy than I am, which made me think that maybe I'm actually an introvert.

[The Ineffable]

Galen is Fi-IEE and 5w6 isn't he?

Galen is a gross mistyping. 5w6 seems to map onto Logical Introverts (someone with E experience pls confirm), so assuming he were IEE, this would be a very weak argument, a distraction I'd say.

... and cognitive styles.

That's not Socionics and for what I know neither usable for typing purposes.

[DirectorAbbie]

He is IEE because he smiles when he talks to people, he needs feedback from others, he thinks of things from many angles, and he sent me a friend request.

[Creepy-ssss]

... and cognitive styles.

That's not Socionics and for what I know neither usable for typing purposes.

That's not your style of Socionics. It is usable if IEE and ILI, his options, are supposed to have different cognitive styles. This is the case.

[DirectorAbbie]

It is usable if IEE and ILI, his options, are supposed to have different cognitive styles. This is the case.

.

[Creepy-ssss]

He is IEE because he smiles when he talks to people.

Or he's simply polite. I can smile to people too, but I need one-to-one interactions. In groupal behavior (except friends), I will hardly do it.

he thinks of things from many angles

Exactly as ILIs do.

he needs feedback from others, and he sent me a friend request.

Uncorrelated.

[DirectorAbbie]

Needing feedback from others is IEE-related. Thinking of things from many angles is static-related. From my experience, IEEs are much more likely to send a friend request than ILIs.

[Creepy-ssss]

Needing feedback from others is IEE-related.

It depends what exactly you're meaning with "feedback from others".
ILIs live in eternal doubts. Asking opinions fit very well in them, if you understand opinions as a source of useful information(data). What an ILI will never do is "simply accept" those opinions. Every conclusion, regardess concrete issue, must be achieved personally after thinking a lot.

I was not sure about my type and I made a type me thread. This does not discard me as ILI, I suppose.

Thinking of things from many angles is static-related.

Looking at things from different POV/interpretations is a common characteristic of all negativists. Static negativists do this with a HP cognitive style; dynamic negativists do it with a DS cognitive style.

From my experience, IEEs are much more likely to send a friend request than ILIs.

That's statistically true. But the question is ILIs will send them less frequently, but they also do it (it takes longer). I have not done it yet here, but I did it in former forums after interacting positively (from my subjective point of view, of course) with several users.

The OP is not new here, he simply has a new username. He has already interacted with many of you.

[DirectorAbbie]

feedback n a reaction or response to a particular process or activity

If you ask a static whether they look at things from lots of different angles, they will say "absolutely" or a synonym/variant. If you ask a dynamic the same question, they won't be sure what you mean. Shoot; I'm not even sure what the question means. But it's related to cognitive styles.

I arrived the year after he left. I am new to him.

[Creepy-ssss]

feedback n a reaction or response to a particular process or activity

??? A very general definition. According to this, everybody manifests feedback (everybody and everything, alive or not, if not isolated).
I do not see how you're using it as an argument for your affirmation.

If you ask a static whether they look at things from lots of different angles, they will say "absolutely" or a synonym/variant. If you ask a dynamic the same question, they won't be sure what you mean. Shoot; I'm not even sure what the question means. But it's related to cognitive styles.

What they say and what they really do are different things. If you ask any moderately intelligent person if he/she looks at things from different POVs the answer will almost always be affirmative.

Negativists look for multiple valid answers/conclusions/options for the same problem/issue. This could only be achieved if you look at things from different point of views.

Dynamic negativists will not have a single definition of POV in mind. So how could they accurately answer this option if they're not sure that their interpretation of POV is correct, or universal? If you're constantly reinterpretating the problem, you're looking at it form different angles. Don't you agree?

Now compare LSIs with ILIs, for example. The first is static but positivist (and CD cognitive style). The second is dynamic and negativist (DA cognitive style). Ignore any previous assumptions about them. Simply analyze the behavior (reasonings, thoughts) they usualy manifest. Which one would you say that would fit better in "MPOVs"?

I arrived the year after he left. I am new to him.

A good action does not make a good person, neither a bad action, but how most of them are .

P.S. I'm not affirming with any of this that the OP should be ILI, only that IMO your arguments are not correct for choosing IEE over ILI. I think he should be ILI due to his 5w6 enneagram.

[Suz]

Galen is Fi-IEE and 5w6 isn't he?

Galen is a gross mistyping. 5w6 seems to map onto Logical Introverts (someone with E experience pls confirm), so assuming he were IEE, this would be a very weak argument, a distraction I'd say.

Oh my bad, Galen is 6w5. Would that be so much different from 5w6?

And, i dont think Galen is mistyped. I relate to him a lot.

[Creepy-ssss]

Oh my bad, Galen is 6w5. Would that be so much different from 5w6?

5w6 is a core 5 with some 6 flavour; 6w5 is a core 6 with some 5 flavour.
They will have the motivations, fears and ways of dealing with them which correspond with the core types, with some particular mannerisms associated to the wing.

But they're still the core types, a 5w6 is a 5 and much closer to a 5w4 than a 6w5, for example.

[DirectorAbbie]

My typing methods aren't infallible, but neither are yours. There is no proof that an IEE can't be a 5.

As to the feedback, I've noticed IEEs need confirmation from people about their actions. Don't ILIs know whether their actions were appropriate without asking anyone?

[Gilly]

Cognitive styles are actually very useful IMO. Give it a look.

[DirectorAbbie]

Cognitive styles are actually very useful IMO. Give it a look.

I know they are, but it seems everyone else thinks of them differently than I learned, and I'm not going to rename stuff just to make communication easier.

[Absurd]

There is no proof that an IEE can't be a 5.

There's no proof IEEs can't be E1 as well.

Cognitive styles are actually very useful IMO. Give it a look.

Taken from cognitive styles:

3.2) Social Level

On the social level, differences between these approaches can be contrasted as naturality/artificiality. By 'naturality' I refer to primal behavior inherent to nature, and by 'artificiality' I refer to behavior accepted by society. For example, in nature, survival of the fittest is law, whereas in society, protection and care of the weak is cultivated.

This is completely flawed. Either the author doesn't know what the heck he is talking about or he doesn't know what the heck is he talking about.

Either way, people do find it useful just to tip-toe between one or the other, allegedly settling on one and exhibiting the other.

[Creepy-ssss]

My typing methods aren't infallible, but neither are yours.

Thanks, I dind't notice it before.

There is no proof that an IEE can't be a 5.

Obviously, Socionics and Enneagram are different systems. But there is no proof than I'm a 5w6, neither there is a proof that you're LSE. Is there?

If you read about the core values of E5, which their goals are, their fears, and how they interact with themselves and the world, all of this fits in introversion and logics (I agree with Ineffable this time). So if you have an user which is supposed to be extroverted and ethical, you have not only one but two properties which simultaneously (relevant when speaking about probabilities) and directly conflict with the core values of E5.

There is no 'yes/no' pure answer, but you can estimate the probabilities of being an IEE E5 against the probabilities of being bad typed in one or even two of these systems.

There is no other IEE E5 in this forum, and I've never seen an MBTI ENFP, ENFJ or in general EF E5. Will this user win the lottery without having bought at least one (I or T) ticket? The fact that I can't 100% prove the impossibility of existence for an IEE E5 does not make this option even a bit likely.

As to the feedback, I've noticed IEEs need confirmation from people about their actions. Don't ILIs know whether their actions were appropriate without asking anyone?

That is not the definition of feedback you previously offered. And although I have to agree with you in this aspect, I've not seen the OP speaking about himself in these terms. Let's him to confirm/deny this and in which degree.
All introverts are prone to lack of self-confidence to some degree, which could be misunderstood with that behavior.

And if you didn't notice it before, my assumptions about his ILIness are based in his supposed 5w6 enneagram. He still could be an IEE and not an E5.

[Absurd]

Obviously, Socionics and Enneagram are different systems. But there is no proof than I'm a 5w6, neither there is a proof that you're LSE. Is there?

This is what I've been waiting for. Thanks Spock, thanks Mens(a).

Discuss

[DirectorAbbie]

Obviously, Socionics and Enneagram are different systems. But there is no proof than I'm a 5w6, neither there is a proof that you're LSE. Is there?

This is what I've been waiting for. Thanks Spock, thanks Mens(a).

Discuss

Socionics itself is a theory. Because nobody's figured out a way to prove it. If we can't prove it exists, how are we supposed to prove we are what we are?

[Absurd]

Haha, fire up that existentialism.

[Creepy-ssss]

This is what I've been waiting for. Thanks Spock, thanks Mens(a).

Discuss

Socionics itself is a theory. Because nobody's figured out a way to prove it. If we can't prove it exists, how are we supposed to prove we are what we are?

You tell me.

[Slacker]

There are a lot of possibilities here:

1. Oh sure, an IEE can be an e5, even if it doesn't happen often
2. He isn't actually IEE and is instead ILI
3. He's wrong about the ennegram and isn't e5 and is IEE
4. He's wrong about both and isn't e5 and isn't either IEE or ILI
5. He's ILI but isn't e5

There might be others - that's just off the top of my head. Anyway, I'm not going to assume he's either IEE or ILI, nor am I going to assume he's right about his e type.

[Absurd]

3. He's wrong about the ennegram and isn't e5 and is IEE.

Yup, something like this happened to me before.