what is the psychology behind our actions?

[chip]

I have always wondered what it means when you intiate contact with someone especially someone your interesting in and well I'm always left with this lingering doubt that had I not initiated contact then the person would not have bothered.

Real life example is the dating game. I'm always in the position of having to draw the girl's attention. It works but at the same time I grow restless of always having to contact her. They will respond but its a bit tiresome. Anyways what is the psychology behind that? I would like to be chased instead of anyways having to chase because I always feel like I'm falling into a trap or a loop hole.

Though I can not scientifically prove the same women would act differently with another man I do notice that women are capable of making the first move and even chasing men. That has happened before but only with women whom I'm not interested in which gives me this bad feeling at the back of my mind when I'm contacting women who do not do the same for me.

Obviously in friendship the act of making first contact and starting plans is more fluid. One night you take over and the next night you sit back.

I'm only interested in a psychological explanation. I do not want to hear a socionics grand theory.

[Beautiful sky]

Hi Chip.

What do you want to know, exactly? If you don't want to chase women then don't...and certain circumstances will arise from that; if you do, then do, and certain circumstances will arise out of that as well....

I can write a book about what will...

Let's see...If you look then maybe you'll pick the women who you're more attracted to; if you go the other way, maybe you'll have more of an exciting time, because it sounds really exciting to be chased by women. LOL

I would advise that you enjoy the moment more as it is rather than trying to read into the events too much.

The women are just trying to say they like you.

[chip]

I'm not too sure exactly what I want to know. Basically why? I need insight into the mind of a woman. I can not tell what women are thinking. For whatever reason all that talk about the INTJ analyst applying cold logic is simply untrue - I have a ridiculously hard time not acting on my emotions. Yes there is a rationale and logical aspect but then whenever I do express myself in what I'm thinking or feeling that never seems to generate a response. How do I make a woman say yes!!! That's basically it in a nutshell. I mean people interpret perfection differently but for me the perfect woman is the woman who says yes.

Can I have your number? yes says the perfect woman.

I text her: "do you want to grab a coffee?" yes says the perfect woman.

once I realise I like her and tell her and then ask: "do you like me?" yes says the perfect woman.

When the time is right I ask her: "do you want to come back to my place?" yes says the perfect woman.

When the feeling is right I ask her: "are we in love?" yes says the perfect woman.

Haven't been there but: "will you marry me?" yes says the perfect woman.

Trust me I'm not lude or inconsiderate to ask anything that is inappropriate and I can definitely understand limitations and boundaries. Eventually she has to say no but not because she wants to but beause she has other obligations and relationships. I mean no one wants to treated like their the center of someone else's world but at the same time being treated like their from another world is bit too much too. What drives me nuts is women who put up the 'no' but there's no reason for it. They can conviently make time for others but are perpetually too busy for me. Yet they flirt and insert suggestive messages with me and even other people close to them throw hints which essentially supports that asking them out is the right action.

When I hear 'no' but not in a literal sense but more disguised form that is the point where I begin to loose faith drastically. An internal change happens when I begin to think 'you said no when you were given the chance(s)'. My motivation to be with her comes to a complete stop and interest drops off the face of the earth. What drives me up the wall is I treat women respectfully and romantically but that is considered "werid and unusual". The outcome is I end up feeling ridiculous for asking a crippled to go jogging with me or asking the blind to play to catch or ultimately the only thing that could salvage the situation is divine intervention since I can not rely on her ability to open up her tuesday night and see that latest movie.

[FDG]

That's because they don't find you attractive enough, durr. Twisted psychological games might happen once in a while, but a repeating pattern of such kind only means one thing.

[InvisibleJim]

logical confusion

You are making a basic error here based on attempting to applying empirical consistency to an entirely non-empirical situation.

*waits of stone throwing*

An individual can either be rational or feminine. But they cannot be both at the same time. Learn to love it because otherwise you feed the feminine by attempting to enact 'change'. Just be stable and let them frolic.

Cases to Consider:
a) This is why when a woman is interested in you and continually approaches and you keep saying no they only become more interested.
b) However if a woman says no to you and you run hot and then cold they will run very quickly because you are occupying their 'space' as it were.
c) If a woman says no and you just accept that without pushing the issue and then do whatever it is you are doing consistently and diligently within visible range of a woman they will be attracted to you. - Note, just leave them to make the 'change' move.
d) The problem: if you are ILI or SLI you will be in tune with asking why they have changed and they will hate you for it and run away again. Inspection/observation can look suspiciously like 'challenge' and thus 'change' when it is merely an aspect of understanding.

In short, you must not change but provide them the space to do what they want without you having the right to question their motives. This is irrational and unfair: tough.

[chip]

Hmmm well...

1. men and women think differently so applying the same standard does not work. Case example: I have a good friend who is a english teacher like myself. His students are adults so he parties with them. They give off the appearance that they really like him. These specific girls call him, hang out and laugh at all his jokes, etc. I believed it myself and even felt envious until they let me in on a little secret. They actually hate him but they still hang out with him. Basically they called him selfish and self-centered but they told me to keep it a secret. I was totally blown away.

In addition when I talked to a female friend she described him as 'werid' and a 'lady-boy'. I'm convinced women flock to him but the way she put it was look at the women who do. Their not good women. What I'm driving at is my perception is skewed. She actually described me as 'hot but unlucky'.

I have a hard time figuring out my own worth and I'm too humble to realize what I could have. So really I'm not insecure in that regard hence I'm looking outward and trying to understand the relationship dynamics. More or less I wish I could understand the interpersonal aspects to a relationship instead of always turning each situation into a intrapersonal relationship.

I want to be interpersonal instead of being so intrapersonal which is overdeveloped. Psychology is interpersonal. Philosophy is intrapersonal. I've learned enough philosophy but not enough psychology and people. Its bascially one area of supreme confidence in opposition to another area of a deplorable confidence.

Last point: I was once very interested in this girl however I did not consider self-comparisons. Well anyways, we were walking together along the beach front and we met some dude along the beach who happened to be gay (not sure if that's of any importance). We sat there listening to him talk about his boyfriend but then he started talking about us. At first he called me gay because I'm so good looking but then he realised I'm not gay but that I'm "deep" and then he called her gay but really what's going on is she doesn't feel like she "deserves me". I had no clue.

All in all I'm getting alot of mixed messages and I can not sort them out. There is alot of people who judge me by my appearance and yes alot of women are attracted to me. There entails part of the problem. Women assume I'm some playboy or player when really I'm humble and modest. It frustrates me to no end. I'll admit I'm a bit shallow, I think, then again I find more women attractive than most of my friends and I don't have a type.

[FDG]

logical confusion

You are making a basic error here based on attempting to applying empirical consistency to an entirely non-empirical situation.

*waits of stone throwing*

An individual can either be rational or feminine. But they cannot be both at the same time. Learn to love it because otherwise you feed the feminine by attempting to enact 'change'. Just be stable and let them frolic.

Cases to Consider:
a) This is why when a woman is interested in you and continually approaches and you keep saying no they only become more interested.
b) However if a woman says no to you and you run hot and then cold they will run very quickly because you are occupying their 'space' as it were.
c) If a woman says no and you just accept that without pushing the issue and then do whatever it is you are doing consistently and diligently within visible range of a woman they will be attracted to you. - Note, just leave them to make the 'change' move.
d) The problem: if you are ILI or SLI you will be in tune with asking why they have changed and they will hate you for it and run away again. Inspection/observation can look suspiciously like 'challenge' and thus 'change' when it is merely an aspect of understanding.

In short, you must not change but provide them the space to do what they want without you having the right to question their motives. This is irrational and unfair: tough.

Ewww no really women will reply "yes" when you ask them out if they are interested in you. It's that simple. It can become more complicated later, but it's rarely that hard at the start.

[Cat King Cole]

Ewww no really women will reply "yes" when you ask them out if they are interested in you. It's that simple. It can become more complicated later, but it's rarely that hard at the start.

What if they're SLI? Because I asked this SLI out and she's like "eyup".

Twisted psychological game? I get the sense that she looks down on me quite a bit.

[FDG]

Ewww no really women will reply "yes" when you ask them out if they are interested in you. It's that simple. It can become more complicated later, but it's rarely that hard at the start.

What if they're SLI? .

Humans are humans are humans.

[Cat King Cole]

Humans are humans are humans.

I suppose. It's interesting because I just can't read her. I feel like I'm maybe being manipulated.

[InvisibleJim]

Ewww no really women will reply "yes" when you ask them out if they are interested in you. It's that simple. It can become more complicated later, but it's rarely that hard at the start.

This boy is likely being chased by IEEs or SEEs. Beware!

[chip]

Reverse pscyhology: "Hello my name George, I'm unemployed and live with my parents"

maybe I could apply reverse psychology and see what happens.

Oh and women do play hard to get especially because they like you and sometimes they are really friendly and nice but have no romantic interest in you.

I'm not trying to make it more complicated than it already is but I just don't believe the standard yes means yes and no means no in the context of asking a girl out. Women test men and often fail because they can not tell they're being tested.

[FDG]

Ewww no really women will reply "yes" when you ask them out if they are interested in you. It's that simple. It can become more complicated later, but it's rarely that hard at the start.

This boy is likely being chased by IEEs or SEEs. Beware!

I have asked IEEs out, it was nothing like that, the direct approach worked perfectly...

[InvisibleJim]

This boy is likely being chased by IEEs or SEEs. Beware!

I have asked IEEs out, it was nothing like that, the direct approach worked perfectly...

Read posts? I advised him not to engage in wiggliness, but I warned him to expect women to do so.

Which is the topic.

[FDG]

Women test men and often fail because they can not tell they're being tested.

Sure, but that doesn't usually happen at the very start of the relationship. You should at least be able to get a date and some sex, then maybe later on a more psychologically reasoned approach could work.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm not too sure exactly what I want to know. Basically why? I need insight into the mind of a woman.

Every woman is different. The ones who chase you, likely are attracted to you and are extraverts.

I can not tell what women are thinking. For whatever reason all that talk about the INTJ analyst applying cold logic is simply untrue - I have a ridiculously hard time not acting on my emotions. Yes there is a rationale and logical aspect but then whenever I do express myself in what I'm thinking or feeling that never seems to generate a response. How do I make a woman say yes!!! That's basically it in a nutshell. I mean people interpret perfection differently but for me the perfect woman is the woman who says yes.

Ok...I think that interpreting people is a better character trait of the very observant Se type anyway, so that would make sense that you have this inability. Maybe waiting patiently for the ONE is a better way to go about it than driving you nuts about trying to figure them out.

Can I have your number? yes says the perfect woman.

She seems only to be externally perfect. You don't know her so how can you say she's perfect? Perfection isn't in the external shell of the individual. It's the package.

I text her: "do you want to grab a coffee?" yes says the perfect woman.

You have to find your charm and the "perfect" woman. I find that it's easier for men to grab the attention of a young lady if they sit next to them and start a casual small talk, on the metro, a short ride allows both parties to feel the attraction and not feel commitment right away. Carry business cards, just in case she comes along.

once I realise I like her and tell her and then ask: "do you like me?" yes says the perfect woman.

Do you like me? NO. How about: Do you like her! Self confidence, practice knowing that you're worthy of being with someone wonderful.

When the time is right I ask her: "do you want to come back to my place?" yes says the perfect woman.

No answer. Seems kinda lame.

When the feeling is right I ask her: "are we in love?" yes says the perfect woman.

Haven't been there but: "will you marry me?" yes says the perfect woman.

That will come. Keep your chin up.

Trust me I'm not lude or inconsiderate to ask anything that is inappropriate and I can definitely understand limitations and boundaries. Eventually she has to say no but not because she wants to but beause she has other obligations and relationships. I mean no one wants to treated like their the center of someone else's world but at the same time being treated like their from another world is bit too much too. What drives me nuts is women who put up the 'no' but there's no reason for it. They can conviently make time for others but are perpetually too busy for me. Yet they flirt and insert suggestive messages with me and even other people close to them throw hints which essentially supports that asking them out is the right action.

When I hear 'no' but not in a literal sense but more disguised form that is the point where I begin to loose faith drastically. An internal change happens when I begin to think 'you said no when you were given the chance(s)'. My motivation to be with her comes to a complete stop and interest drops off the face of the earth. What drives me up the wall is I treat women respectfully and romantically but that is considered "werid and unusual". The outcome is I end up feeling ridiculous for asking a crippled to go jogging with me or asking the blind to play to catch or ultimately the only thing that could salvage the situation is divine intervention since I can not rely on her ability to open up her tuesday night and see that latest movie.

That's a bit more realistic, but your idealism is inspiring and romantic. Don't get down on yourself; it will happen. Don't try too hard either; have and do things for yourself that improve you, make you feel secure and confident; those things are very visual to others around you and will attract you to them. Desperation makes people look needy and detracts attention from them.

[chip]

Thanks marista. I mean I suppose I've hit an age where I'm really interested in finding a women to be a life partner. I did not start feeling this way until recently. It's like hitting an emotional puberty.

Getting laid with tons of different women is not really what I want like I'm still some collage senior. I'm not saying I repress myself but I'm interested in developing a long term relationship. I want quality not quantity.

I think my values are shifting in accorance with my circumstances. I have my own apartment. I want to enrich my personal life. Getting drunk and chasing pussy does not appeal to me like it once did. I'm apart of that circle but really I want out. In reality its not so much "I,I,I" as it is "we".

Men in their late twenties begin to develop a deeper sense of committment. We start wanting to settle down and it becomes customary. We get married outselves or we have a friend who is married. We attent weddings and take pictures and celebrate. I beleive that is how some men begin to think in their late twenties. We hit a level of maturity.

[FDG]

Thanks marista. I mean I suppose I've hit an age where I'm really interested in finding a women to be a life partner. I did not start feeling this way until recently. It's like hitting an emotional puberty.

Getting laid with tons of different women is not really what I want like I'm still some collage senior. I'm not saying I repress myself but I'm interested in developing a long term relationship. I want quality not quantity.

I think my values are shifting in accorance with my circumstances. I have my own apartment. I want to enrich my personal life. Getting drunk and chasing pussy does not appeal to me like it once did. I'm apart of that circle but really I want out. In reality its not so much "I,I,I" as it is "we".

Men in their late twenties begin to develop a deeper sense of committment. We start wanting to settle down and it becomes customary. We get married outselves or we have a friend who is married. We attent weddings and take pictures and celebrate. I beleive that is how some men begin to think in their late twenties. We hit a level of maturity.

Long-term relationships start in exactly the same way short-term relationships do, except the partners find out that they are long-term compatible. Plus it's kinda lame to think that there is an age separation when it comes to short term vs. long term, meh.

[chip]

well that's your opinion but people hit a certain age. The idea of a getting married becomes less and less of a far off and distant idea as you grow up. Basically two people together for three or four years in their late twenties would likely go on to the next step than two high school sweet hearts.

[anndelise]

I'm not too sure exactly what I want to know. Basically why? I need insight into the mind of a woman. I can not tell what women are thinking.

A woman is a person, not a robot. There isn't a unified "mind of a woman". There is, however, "mind of a person". People have individual personalities, personal interests, personal experiences, etc etc. How about treating these women as the individuals that they are rather than lumping their minds as the same merely because they all have boobs and a vagina.

How do I make a woman say yes!!! That's basically it in a nutshell. I mean people interpret perfection differently but for me the perfect woman is the woman who says yes.

You say the perfect woman would say yes to those questions on your list. Is that really the kind of woman you want? A woman who'll say "yes" to whomever asks these of her? Or would you prefer a woman who'll say "yes" specifically to YOU?

If the former...that you want a woman who will say "yes" regardless of who asks her, then either look for a well-used woman....or a robot programmed to say "yes".

If the latter....that you want a woman who will say "yes" to you specifically, requires a woman with discernment. And that discernment will be determined based on the compatibility of your personality with hers.

In this latter case, you'll do better if you take a look at your own personality, interests, skills, views, beliefs, etc... And figure out what personality aspects would be compatible and/or complimentary. Use this as your litmus test, rather than the mere existence of a vagina/womb. Because a discerning woman would be looking for more from you than whether or not you have a penis to say "yes" to.

_____

Everything else you've written about is dependent upon the personality and compatibility of personality rather than her being "a woman".

[anndelise]

My partner says you missed one of the most important question to ask her: "You're going to refrain from killing me in my sleep, right? the perfect woman would say yes"

[chip]

thanks for the replies ladies.

Robots?? come on?! lol I do not treat women as robots. Essentially I'm asking them to make a choice which is deeply humane and respective of their individuality. However I keep meeting robots who are programmed by society to respond in the same way!! haha I'm not treating them like robots but rather their treating themselves like robots as I watch in horror. In many cases women do not even say no as that would require a choice being made. Instead they dodge responsibility. Maybe I'm crazy for saying this but I do not have problems with women but women have problems with me - what I mean is I do not have bad things to say about women but they have seem to have an infinite supply of bad things to say about me or they compare me to an ideal. What I mean to say is I treat women in high regard but I'm treated with less than stellar appreciation.

Basically when I interact with a women that is an experience but often I get deeply frustrated because they do not interact with me but instead make a specticle of the situation. When I look at a women I see her but when a women looks at me she see's someone else - an ex, a celebrity, a friend, etc.

Yes my confidence is not in the dating game. I'm not a playboy or player but I'm not even a nice guy. I'm modest, humble and alittle mysterious which seems to goes unnoticed. Sounds corny but I want to be liked for who I am even when that means I do not have great confidence.

Put it this way, when a women likes a man with confidence she likes that quality but not the man himself because he can lose confidence but never lose his true identity. To like only qualities of a person strips them of their individuality and identity. Essentially to like the qualities means to treat them like an object without choice much like a robot.

[chip]

well in truth I've always wanted to meet a women with confidence and good self-esteem. Nothing over the moon but a women who is well adjusted. I'd definitely like to meet a women who has less gender bias - maybe a tomboy, maybe not so prissy. As an introvert ,even with fairly extroverted behaviour, meeting a women who is liberal minded would be a good match.

Anyways you've definitely described the typical man with balls but what about a women with confidence? how would you describe that? If you really wanted to help me give me an idea of the women who I would be a good match with. Basially I'm meeting women at random and my buddies just want to see some action. There's no sense of hey your this kind of guy and she's that kind of girl so the two of you would be a good match. It's pure randomness until shit hits the fan and then everyone suddenly realises that she's not right for you, etc. I'm left wondering who is right for me?

[tcaudilllg]

EM type conflicts will kill a relationship before it ever gets off the ground. I've had friends of every type, but if their EM type is highly dissimilar from mine AND they have dissimilar values... forget it. The first sign that you don't want to hear what they are talking about and they immediately assume all you are after is... well...

It's hard to find a decent high confidence person. Most of them are elitists who demand that those around them aspire to meet the very heights of cultural expectation (e.g. being hip, classy, and tolerant of idiocy ("different views") especially in Western culture).

[chip]

I wasn't being gender specific.

Of course you weren't. fits your profile pic perfectly

[bionic]

Uh...... it's called..... Behaviorism.

[NewBorn STAR]

Uh...... it's called..... Behaviorism.

BORING

[chip]

I don't know what you mean by that, it sounds passive aggressive. I was just trying to say was you're better off w/o preconceived gender bias.

hmmm actually when I read your post and looked at your photo of you sticking your tongue out like your teasing, they seemed to go together.

My initial reaction was more like this