Why are IEI and SLE good for one another? (INFp and ESTp)

[redbaron]

because they're both supremely selfish types. Probably the two most selfish types of the 16. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

[betterthan]

what happend?

[redbaron]

eh, nothing really.

[Linas]

beta's are stupid dumb teenagers! they want more and more every time they get it, get what? WHATEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR BITCH! STRYKE IN YO FACE PEACE'O'SHIT!!!ahggrrrr SOCIETY BE EVIL, WE NEED POWER! WE NEED TOLERANCE! BUT FIRST, LET'S FUCK EVERYTHING AROUND HERE (we may need sexing afta we don-didit!thx *blahh*)


you see?


and yeah, i totally see IEI and SLE being really selfish, asocial sorta, ant everything else in between.

[Linas]

eh, nothing really.

um, yeah, um, so was it something bad? :{

[redbaron]

teenagers is exactly right.

I am so proud to be IEI.

no, I was just realizing that the only ones that can really stand us, are our duals. to others we just come across as self-involved (which we are) and narcissistic.

[Linas]

do you get that feeling, or may I set, get caught in that thinking strategy? > he's cool and smart, so he's ok for sex. or like, what I say somethimes to myself and others: if the talking is good, and she is sexually good, then we are good. ? ? ?

uhuh. yep. IEIs are that sorta withdrawn and SLEs are that sorta enough cool to leave any minute. or somethin

[Linas]

so, yeaah, I fit pretty well into the game. yikes! and shrub.. *emo_luw*

[..]

[Satan]

i'm not selfish

[redbaron]

i'm not selfish

yeah I meant all SLEs except for you.

[JWC3]

I DO WHAT I WANT!

[Singu]

They're not the most selfish types... plus it depends more on the person.

[silverchris9]

Yay! I like this topic. Yes. It is completely true. I am utterly self-absorbed.

The corollary to this, however, is that SLEs are the only people interesting enough to get an IEI to pay attention to anything other than him/herself and vice versa.

[ArchonAlarion]

Polikujm is stupid
Polikujm is bitchy
Polikujm is evil
Polikujm is gay

<3

[sigma]

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Why should I do that? Being selfish is not wrong in my eyes. I believe that we all are selfish. Even the most altruistic persons on earth are selfish. They might do it for the benefit of their soul (heaven) but they are still doing it for them. Selfish!

Being stupidly selfish is a problem... but I don't think it is a problem for IEI-SLE

[sema sahin]

It's true. INFps are selfish. (:

[Rubicon]

It's true. INFps are selfish. (:

Always posting in tiny font makes me think you're whispering or really shy. :-P

Err sorry.. carry on!

[redbaron]

I DO WHAT I WANT!

[1981slater]

Always posting in tiny font makes me think you're whispering or really shy. :-P

Err sorry.. carry on!

Use ! She's trying to asses our sight, she's an ophtalmologist

[Sueno]

This is a good thread !!..talk about my type some more..so I can bask in the descriptions about me..

[Rubicon]

Use ! She's trying to asses our sight, she's an ophtalmologist

Ahhh!

[redbaron]

well here's the thing: I'm ATTRACTED to selfishness. Both in myself and others. Maybe it's because I've seen the problems that can come when you constantly put others first and neglect your own needs and state of well-being. The other thing is, when someone admits to being selfish, that's cool too! It's like they're not afraid to be human and honest. People who always talk about what they're doing for other people... it feels like they're hiding something, or like there's something they don't like about themselves that they're covering up by being focused on others. Am I way off here? Does this make any sense?

[1981slater]

well here's the thing: I'm ATTRACTED to selfishness. Both in myself and others. Maybe it's because I've seen the problems that can come when you constantly put others first and neglect your own needs and state of well-being. The other thing is, when someone admits to being selfish, that's cool too! It's like they're not afraid to be human and honest. People who always talk about what they're doing for other people... it feels like they're hiding something, or like there's something they don't like about themselves that they're covering up by being focused on others. Am I way off here? Does this make any sense?

Before posting this you should have said: DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MATRIX IS, NEO?

[betterthan]

lol

[Satan]

well here's the thing: I'm ATTRACTED to selfishness. Both in myself and others. Maybe it's because I've seen the problems that can come when you constantly put others first and neglect your own needs and state of well-being. The other thing is, when someone admits to being selfish, that's cool too! It's like they're not afraid to be human and honest. People who always talk about what they're doing for other people... it feels like they're hiding something, or like there's something they don't like about themselves that they're covering up by being focused on others. Am I way off here? Does this make any sense?

true.

[enigmadream]

Before posting this you should have said: DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE MATRIX IS, NEO?

lol

But with respect to redbaron's post - that's how it's like for me. I think I've lost so much of myself trying to fit into someone else's mould. The fact is that I think I've stretched and contorted myself into something that I don't even recognise. I just don't have passion for anything. Fleeting interests yes but passion I lack.

OTOH, I do find that I am happier when I'm less self-absorbed. When my focus is on others. I guess that's what SLEs are for...;p

[JWC3]

Listen, here's why SLEs and IEIs go together. Cause SLEs deserve nothing short of he most wickedly fucking awesome people in the world and, coincidentally, that turns out to be IEIs.

[redbaron]

Listen, here's why SLEs and IEIs go together. Cause SLEs deserve nothing short of he most wickedly fucking awesome people in the world and, coincidentally, that turns out to be IEIs.

I love you.

[Blaze]

teenagers is exactly right.

I am so proud to be IEI.

no, I was just realizing that the only ones that can really stand us, are our duals. to others we just come across as self-involved (which we are) and narcissistic.

everybody's self centered. there is no thing as altruism. besides, i like IEI's and SLE's...self centered is not the first thing i think of when i think of them!

[Suz]

everybody's self centered. there is no thing as altruism. besides, i like IEI's and SLE's...self centered is not the first thing i think of when i think of them!

yeah same here. I wont speak for myself as the only IEI that I know, but SLEs are actually very considerate, caring people. Speaking for the SLE that I know, who makes it a point to demonstrate this in action (though he will turn right around and be facetious about how little he cares about people). I know he is being facetious because i see the opposite from him. I think he says that to be modest (i.e. cool ). He actually even snapped at me once when I said something in the presence of some people that was inconsiderate to say in front of them (I did not see them there at the time), which was really, and i mean REALLLY out of character for him. i felt really horrified and guilty about it, and didn't really know what else to do but to apologize. In true SLE fashion, it was all forgiven and forgotten soon afterwards. In any case, he never brought it up again.

[Blaze]

lol

But with respect to redbaron's post - that's how it's like for me. I think I've lost so much of myself trying to fit into someone else's mould. The fact is that I think I've stretched and contorted myself into something that I don't even recognise. I just don't have passion for anything. Fleeting interests yes but passion I lack.

OTOH, I do find that I am happier when I'm less self-absorbed. When my focus is on others. I guess that's what SLEs are for...;p

ah the return of ephemeros/pinochio. :-)

[Joy]

because they're both supremely selfish types. Probably the two most selfish types of the 16. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Let's assume for a moment that I am indeed SLE... And even if I'm not, here's my perspective anyways:

People SHOULD be selfish in that each person is responsible for looking out for their own best interests. I take full responsibility for my life, decisions, behavior, circumstances, and state of being, and I expect others to do the same.

What happens when your best interests clash with that of another? Examine the situation thoroughly. Take into account each person's values, desires, circumstances, needs, options, etc. Consider what will likely happen if different courses of action are taken.

Consider your own values. Is it important to you not to needlessly hurt other people? If you're a healthy person, it will be. How do you determine what is needless and what is not? Consider what each person stands to lose or gain. If there's something that you sort of want a little bit, but getting it would mean totally devastating another person (think of the Bible story about the guy who ate someone's pet sheep), then the cost does not outweigh the benefit, assuming you are a healthy person.

What if you stand to gain a lot, but someone else stands to lose a lot as a result? Again, examine the situation thoroughly, especially the likely consequences each course of action. Ultimately, you should do what's right for you. It's your life. We each get one and only one to live.

Maybe the other person will be hurt, but that's life. We can't be responsible for sheltering people from the consequences of their chosen paths. Each of us gets where we are through a series of thought processes and decisions. What if they don't "deserve" to have that bad thing happen to them? They haven't behaved maliciously or recklessly. My answer? Again, that's life. When shitty (or good) things happen to us, it is our responsibility to evaluate the cause and effect relationships at play and then LEARN from them and grow as a person. It is our responsibility to accept what is and then decide where to go from there. Sometimes what seemed like a bad thing at the time can end up being the best thing that ever happened to us, depending on what we learn and where we choose to go from there. And it is each person's responsibility to make that happen in their own lives.

Another aspect of all of this is that all people are selfish. They can't not be. We can only see through our own eyes and think with our own mind, after all. Even if people are living their lives to make others happy, they're ultimately doing it because they want to. There is a greater reward for them in doing so than not. Or because it makes the most sense to them. Or because they are unable or unwilling to accept the alternative. In the end, they're still doing what's in their own best interests.

(Can you tell I took Adderall today? )

[Suz]

Let's assume for a moment that I am indeed SLE... And even if I'm not, here's my perspective anyways:

People SHOULD be selfish in that each person is responsible for looking out for their own best interests. I take full responsibility for my life, decisions, behavior, circumstances, and state of being, and I expect others to do the same.

What happens when your best interests clash with that of another? Examine the situation thoroughly. Take into account each person's values, desires, circumstances, needs, options, etc. Consider what will likely happen if different courses of action are taken.

Consider your own values. Is it important to you not to needlessly hurt other people? If you're a healthy person, it will be. How do you determine what is needless and what is not? Consider what each person stands to lose or gain. If there's something that you sort of want a little bit, but getting it would mean totally devastating another person (think of the Bible story about the guy who ate someone's pet sheep), then the cost does not outweigh the benefit, assuming you are a healthy person.

What if you stand to gain a lot, but someone else stands to lose a lot as a result? Again, examine the situation thoroughly, especially the likely consequences each course of action. Ultimately, you should do what's right for you. It's your life. We each get one and only one to live.

Maybe the other person will be hurt, but that's life. We can't be responsible for sheltering people from the consequences of their chosen paths. Each of us gets where we are through a series of thought processes and decisions. What if they don't "deserve" to have that bad thing happen to them? They haven't behaved maliciously or recklessly. My answer? Again, that's life. When shitty (or good) things happen to us, it is our responsibility to evaluate the cause and effect relationships at play and then LEARN from them and grow as a person. It is our responsibility to accept what is and then decide where to go from there. Sometimes what seemed like a bad thing at the time can end up being the best thing that ever happened to us, depending on what we learn and where we choose to go from there. And it is each person's responsibility to make that happen in their own lives.

Another aspect of all of this is that all people are selfish. They can't not be. We can only see through our own eyes and think with our own mind, after all. Even if people are living their lives to make others happy, they're ultimately doing it because they want to. There is a greater reward for them in doing so than not. Or because it makes the most sense to them. Or because they are unable or unwilling to accept the alternative. In the end, they're still doing what's in their own best interests.

(Can you tell I took Adderall today? )

Bravo! Excellently said! I agree with you wholeheartedly and this is my outlook as well (including the consequences part).

When I said said selfless in the other thread, what I meant was looking out for others--I guess that would be more along the lines of "caring". Thanks for verbalizing it.

[redbaron]

good post, Joy.

[Joy]

(: <3

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Gonna nitpick everything you wrote Joy. =)

People SHOULD be selfish in that each person is responsible for looking out for their own best interests. I take full responsibility for my life, decisions, behavior, circumstances, and state of being, and I expect others to do the same.

I agree. The sad fact is that many people weren't taught this growing up, and so they have to be re-learnt, that they are responsible for their own emotions. It is nice when other people 'pick you up' but you can't count on it or look forward to it, or you will always be dissapointed. Okay I take it back, I agree with this MOST of the time, but sometimes the opposite is true, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so much. It all depends on the situation.

What happens when your best interests clash with that of another? Examine the situation thoroughly. Take into account each person's values, desires, circumstances, needs, options, etc. Consider what will likely happen if different courses of action are taken.

This sounds kinda complicated. I would just remind myself of point one, that this person is innately selfish like me, and is trying to take care of themselves and their own family, they would stab me in the back in a heartbeat and that's not being negative, it's being realistic. Most people aren't my friends, but my competitors. And American Society greatly exemplifies this. Only trust people who have less than you or (about) the same as you. Do not trust people who claim they want to 'uplift you from a distance' because it is an obvious scam to make themselves richer. Look out for yourself and your own family, and the 'nigga you tryin' to suck & fuck' and put your bitch shield on with everybody else.

Consider your own values. Is it important to you not to needlessly hurt other people? If you're a healthy person, it will be. How do you determine what is needless and what is not? Consider what each person stands to lose or gain. If there's something that you sort of want a little bit, but getting it would mean totally devastating another person (think of the Bible story about the guy who ate someone's pet sheep), then the cost does not outweigh the benefit, assuming you are a healthy person.

Well politically speaking, I'm very liberal, so I always err on the side of being honest even when it won't gain me anything in the world, because my personal freedoms are much more important to me than having nice things. I grew up in a middle class family, but we were always on the 'lower end' of middle class and I never could afford the designer labels most of the other kids had. I never really cared or was jealous, cause I didn't like how american society was so plastic anyway, but I did not like the superior attitude that the rich stuck-up people had. I basically wanted to punch the preppy kids in the faces. And I'm actually glad what the columbine kids did, those preppy jocks were literally soulless and deserved that. So while you are all right in theory, you have to remember that you were born with certain privileges (and also disadvantages) that other people weren't Joy, and all your rants about 'Positive Thinking' and the like are nice, but also annoy me- because they sound a bit on the condescending side. You are right in essence, but you are just luckier than most people, we all are if we can use a computer. I'm not trying to 'liberal guilt you' but I am trying to 'liberal modest you.'

What if you stand to gain a lot, but someone else stands to lose a lot as a result? Again, examine the situation thoroughly, especially the likely consequences each course of action. Ultimately, you should do what's right for you. It's your life. We each get one and only one to live.

The system is already kinda fair to me (when it's properly enforced which rarely happens), because of the taxes everybody has to pay. The rich will always be richer, but of course the middle class and poor got screwed in the end as a result. =D If you work harder in life, you should have more than other people, but we have enough resources in the world to take care of everybody else. The problem is poorer people have bigger social problems than others and wouldn't know how to responsibly handle more money anyway. So I don't know what to say to this, other than the fact- I actually do think the system is fair, but people just exploit it anyway by knowing the right people. So I'm not sure what you are saying, cause the kind of thing you are talking about, we are already innately born into. If you come from a privileged family, you are not going to have the same neurosis or worries that the middle class have, if you are a middle class you are not going to have the same neurosis or worries that the poor have.

Maybe the other person will be hurt, but that's life. We can't be responsible for sheltering people from the consequences of their chosen paths. Each of us gets where we are through a series of thought processes and decisions. What if they don't "deserve" to have that bad thing happen to them? They haven't behaved maliciously or recklessly. My answer? Again, that's life. When shitty (or good) things happen to us, it is our responsibility to evaluate the cause and effect relationships at play and then LEARN from them and grow as a person. It is our responsibility to accept what is and then decide where to go from there. Sometimes what seemed like a bad thing at the time can end up being the best thing that ever happened to us, depending on what we learn and where we choose to go from there. And it is each person's responsibility to make that happen in their own lives.

Yeah see, this is the part where I find you ugly. "I got mine, what's wrong with you Jack" is retarded. You were BORN into a life of privilege, you bitch, and you need to realize this. I suppose you will try to turn this into my fault by saying I'm playing the victim or other psych 101 nonsense, but you are just repeating the same things and beginning to annoy me. How can you be so arrogant, Joy? I think a part of you does know this attitude is wrong though, otherwise you wouldn't try to defend it with your ego. You are just hot air, like a blowhard salesmen or something. I see right through you.

Another aspect of all of this is that all people are selfish. They can't not be. We can only see through our own eyes and think with our own mind, after all. Even if people are living their lives to make others happy, they're ultimately doing it because they want to. There is a greater reward for them in doing so than not. Or because it makes the most sense to them. Or because they are unable or unwilling to accept the alternative. In the end, they're still doing what's in their own best interests.

Stop it. Stop preaching to others, stop acting like you know more than anybody else, shut your trap for a change. You don't even know if all that is true for a fact, again it depends on the situation. Of course people are selfish, to a point. Why are you preaching at us for things we already know? Go write a self-help book or something and prey on people who you can take advantage of.

[Joy]

Gonna nitpick everything you wrote Joy. =)

I agree. The sad fact is that many people weren't taught this growing up, and so they have to be re-learnt, that they are responsible for their own emotions. It is nice when other people 'pick you up' but you can't count on it or look forward to it, or you will always be dissapointed.

Yeah. It's not wrong to accept help or "pick me ups" from others, as long as you know that at the end of the day, they're not responsible for you. You are. The same applies when they harm you.

Okay I take it back, I agree with this MOST of the time, but sometimes the opposite is true, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so much. It all depends on the situation.

Eh?

This sounds kinda complicated. I would just remind myself of point one, that this person is innately selfish like me, and is trying to take care of themselves and their own family, they would stab me in the back in a heartbeat and that's not being negative, it's being realistic. Most people aren't my friends, but my competitors. And American Society greatly exemplifies this. Only trust people who have less than you or (about) the same as you. Do not trust people who claim they want to 'uplift you from a distance' because it is an obvious scam to make themselves richer. Look out for yourself and your own family, and the 'nigga you tryin' to suck & fuck' and put your bitch shield on with everybody else.

Well politically speaking, I'm very liberal, so I always err on the side of being honest even when it won't gain me anything in the world, because my personal freedoms are much more important to me than having nice things. I grew up in a middle class family, but we were always on the 'lower end' of middle class and I never could afford the designer labels most of the other kids had. I never really cared or was jealous, cause I didn't like how american society was so plastic anyway, but I did not like the superior attitude that the rich stuck-up people had. I basically wanted to punch the preppy kids in the faces. And I'm actually glad what the columbine kids did, those preppy jocks were literally soulless and deserved that. So while you are all right in theory, you have to remember that you were born with certain privileges (and also disadvantages) that other people weren't Joy, and all your rants about 'Positive Thinking' and the like are nice, but also annoy me- because they sound a bit on the condescending side. You are right in essence, but you are just luckier than most people, we all are if we can use a computer. I'm not trying to 'liberal guilt you' but I am trying to 'liberal modest you.'

What good does it do to hate those who have more than you? If there's something you want, get it.

The system is already kinda fair to me (when it's properly enforced which rarely happens), because of the taxes everybody has to pay. The rich will always be richer, but of course the middle class and poor got screwed in the end as a result. =D If you work harder in life, you should have more than other people, but we have enough resources in the world to take care of everybody else. The problem is poorer people have bigger social problems than others and wouldn't know how to responsibly handle more money anyway. So I don't know what to say to this, other than the fact- I actually do think the system is fair, but people just exploit it anyway by knowing the right people. So I'm not sure what you are saying, cause the kind of thing you are talking about, we are already innately born into. If you come from a privileged family, you are not going to have the same neurosis or worries that the middle class have, if you are a middle class you are not going to have the same neurosis or worries that the poor have.

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said. You're right though, each class has it's own set of problems. Statistically, happiness is not related to how much money one has unless their basic needs (food, shelter, etc.) are not being met.

Yeah see, this is the part where I find you ugly. "I got mine, what's wrong with you Jack" is retarded. You were BORN into a life of privilege, you bitch, and you need to realize this.

Compared to who? There are a lot of people who are worse and better off than both of us. In fact, almost everyone is better off or worse off than someone else. That's all relative, and I don't see what it has to do with my post.

fwiw, my family lived in poverty (by US definition) through most of my childhood, and my parents are now what I'd consider lower middle class. (Towards the "middle" end up lower middle, but definitely closer to lower than upper middle class.) I don't believe that matters to what I decide to do with my life though.

I suppose you will try to turn this into my fault by saying I'm playing the victim or other psych 101 nonsense, but you are just repeating the same things and beginning to annoy me.

If you meant that you thought I was going to say that you should focus on the things that you can do something about, not the things you can't, then you're correct.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

What good does it do to hate those who have more than you? If there's something you want, get it.

Don't tell me what to do, you wannabe faux-psychologist "self-help" shrew of a fisherman's wife!!! =p

You missed the point entirely. I didn't want those things, I said that. I hated their smug attitude, just like I hate your smug attitude. The point is, you were simply born luckier than most people, you didn't get there through your 'Positivity' or any of that nonsense. They didn't work for those things either, they were born into families that could afford them and taught kids those lifestyles, just like you are basically echoing what you were taught.

I'm not saying that you should feel guilty for this, you just need to be aware of it, that is the primary reason for your success in the world. So, you therefore should be compassionate and considerate, you are NOBODY to be telling other people what to do, and I mean that.

Eh?

What you said is a half-truth. We should be selfish, in some circumstances. Others it is inappropriate and will actually hurt you. It depends on the specific situation. It all depends on who you are dealing with and what you are talking about.

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said.

It has EVERYTHING to do with what you said, because you cannot ignore class or economic situations.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Come on Joy, how the hell can we be duals? do I feel like your dual?

[Satan]

Come on Joy, how the hell can we be duals? do I feel like your dual?

do u feel like workaholicsanon is your identical