Is it true that all of you guys/girls like giving massages? I know this is kind of a weird question, but it has been a perception of mine for some time.
Delta STs and massages
Is it true that all of you guys/girls like giving massages? I know this is kind of a weird question, but it has been a perception of mine for some time.
I don't like people touching me or me touching people unless there is sex being had. So, no.
How desperately do you want one?Originally Posted by Sereno
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I really don't know why that was an impression I had... I've seen them give shoulder rubs and talk about massaging. Maybe it's just coincidental.
Right now I don't need one. Though, there are times I wish I got one, like after exercising. Maybe I should date a masseusse...
I LOVE giving massages. Mostly to women though, honestly. But even in general, I really enjoy directly affecting someone's comfort level, especially based on my effort. This is also mostly based on how well I know you.
The closer you are to me, especially romantically, the more access you have to my massages. I generally encourage them on people I'm really close to.
What could be better than working out someone's aches and making someone you care about feel better?
I'm very big on physical contact with people I'm close to, though, so this is related to all of that. Give a massage to a random stranger? Not something I'd likely do. There is a sort of inherent level of intimacy, I think. I'm not sure I'd enjoy massaging as an occupation. But for my family, and especially for my woman - absolutely. I very much like the idea of really getting to know my so's body in great depth, knowing where problem spots are, and what feels good and relaxing, or what should be avoided. Yes, that plays into sensuality, but also just understanding their general nature. Perhaps I have a high sensitivity to physical aspects of people, in regard to their nature and such - (And perhaps this is why I suck at intuition in regard to people's thoughts or feelings - going off of non-concrete things is much more difficult).
I would definitely consider learning or getting training in massaging, or other physical forms of well being, and like to partake in that with a significant other. It would be something I'd like sharing.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Get a good LSE. Or any good Si type. I know an ISFp who really loves giving massages. But as in my above post, if you were my so (yes you, Sereno), and you even mentioned being achy, you'd immediately be met with offers for massage and/or other relaxing/comforting.
Why? Why is this particularly a big deal for me?
For me it's like "Oh snap! I get to directly provide/do something that affects this person's state of being!". I get to "labor" or put effort into making you feel better, and it this feels like something I can actually do to contribute to the well being of the relationship.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I know another ISTp who feels just that same way. She is very selective about who touches her and how, and generally keeps a comfortable distance form everyone.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
lol...
I wonder if all LSEs are like this. So, based on what your saying, if I don't get any comments on how to feel better, then that means they don't really care that much about me? (I'm not saying this in the depressing way though)
My ISTp friend has mentioned he gives massages to girls but yeah normally when hes about to get laid.
I actually love giving massages, im pretty good too
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
No, definitely not! That's to the not caring part, not the all LSEs part. Um, basically, I completely agree with what UDP first wrote in this thread - I also love giving massages, BUT it is a *very* intimate thing for me. I wouldn't give a stranger a massage ever, but I give my mum little drive-by shoulder rubs when she's looking tense or really whenever. It's a way of showing affection and caring. Thing is, I wouldn't even really feel comfortable giving my friends massages. It's a bit too...um...intimate.
Which is why I'm also sort of disagreeing - I think as a female, I have very different boundaries about what is and isn't too intimate. Even if I saw someone whom I wanted to ask how they were and help them feel better, I *wouldn't* if it was a guy, because I wouldn't want him to take it the wrong way and think I was hitting on him. Or that I was being overly familiar. So the desire to help is there, it just isn't realised, because I have socialised limitations on how I act with people I don't know that well.
But if I was in a relationship, yeah, giving shoulder rubs/massages would definitely be something I do. Without a doubt. It'd be like a way of saying 'I really like you' without, you know, having to *talk* about your feelings, oh no! ;P
allez cuisine!
Yeah, I hate wasting my time unless they're very good friends.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
I don't think we're that much different. I probably sounded over enthusiastic. I really am selective about who gets to feel my magic hands, mwa ha ha. But I do think it's more acceptable for guys to give massages in general, yes. Kind of like how its more encouraged for guys to go out and get laid more often.
IF I was in a relationship with someone, though, I'd prefer to keep my massages for that person. I'd rather they be special treats, really. But of course there are different types of massages.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Ah. Massages from my dad....I don't think i'd ever want to engage in something like that.
Ah. Massages from my dad....I don't think i'd ever want to engage in something like that.
Oh man. I wanna make a joke, but I am not going to, because unefille is cool and didn't mean it in a weird way.
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
It's hard to turn down direct requests, you know.I want an ST massage.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I like giving massages. It's like doing a crossword puzzle on someone's back. I actually figure out where the tension spots are - I can even tell whether what I'm working on is giving the person a dull or a sharp ache.
My Mom has a lot of back problems, and she got us kids to start beating on her by the time I was about five. So I'm used to that ... and I like the phrase "drive-by shoulder rub" - I'll give those to family members, coworkers, friends and acquaintances if I see them hunched over or giving tense signals. But I'm talking like less than five minutes - that's not very intimate!
Just last night my SO was fidgety in bed, so I gave him a mini-massage - he'd overextended a few kicks doing hackey sack and his middle back was aching. He told me in general where the discomfort was, and I honed right in on the inflammation. You have to knead the muscle in several ways to find the right spots to attack first; otherwise, you're just rubbing without doing anywhere near as much good. I'm afraid I caused him quite a bit of pain, trying to untie that knot - but this morning he woke up and said it wasn't bothering him anymore!
And I carry a lot of tension in my neck & shoulders, so I loooooooooove getting back rubs, but I almost never do. Just won't ask for it, I guess.
SLI
Yeah, I have the same problem, but I guess I just don't like asking for a massage (or any help). I feel kind of guilty and like I'm imposing too much, and just like I'm asking for something I shouldn't be asking for.
And yeah, I also approach massages as a puzzle I have to solve: get to the source of the pain and fix it!
allez cuisine!
My ESTj friend told me the other day that his INFj girlfriend wanted to take a massage class with him and he said no. LOL. I was like dude it would be good.
I approach them as a source of pleasure, how to create the nicest feeling in the person possible. Although if i actually understood how to find knots etc i think i would very much enjoy untying them
And yeah, I also approach massages as a puzzle I have to solve: get to the source of the pain and fix it!
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Whaaaaaa?
I'm sorry for the INFj
I'm sorry for the enhanced sex the ESTj and INFj are missing out on
And that they both missed out on a great bonding experience
I'm sorry for the satisfaction the ESTj is missing out in terms of losing another experience to get his hands on his INFj and make her feel good.
O', this ESTj will come to remember this day in the future,
and whenever the idea of massage or massage classes are mentioned,
he will hold his manhood CHEAP
when he sees that an opportunity for massaging his INFj slipped by
and as such his honour diminished.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Yeah i hear ya. He did have an excuse, i think he said he was busy which is certianly no lie. Props in a way to him for sticking to his guns though, i would have thought his girlfriend might want to snip his balls off for not wanting to.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
hahahahaha AWESOME
the epic poetic heritage of ESTjs!
allez cuisine!
Yup, gonna have to agree: your friend is king of Missing the Hint.
To be honest I was laughing quite a bit because
- I was extremely tired and wiped out after today's final
- I have been having that Henry V speech in my head for a few days
- I have been looking for an opportunity to say "Hold their manhood's CHEAP" for some time now
- It is so dramatic and quintessential ENFj/beta that I find it humorous
- Obviously I like the idea of massaging an INFj, so you knew this bit about massaging was coming
Yeah..... I don't know. @tinyancer and meatburger - do you think the INFj was trying to get him away from his work? Do you think she did it because he was too busy? If it is just because he happens to be busy, then I understand I guess - business before pleasure, ultimately, for ESTjs. But if he is working too much, and this was the INFjs way of saying "hey.... spend time with me, massage me, show me you want to be with me and touch me and make me feel good, because I'm wondering if you really want to do that", then this guy might be in deep trouble : /
PS: in case you know not what speech I am referring to...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OAvmLDkAgAM
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
waaaaaiit a minute - meatburger - weren't you just saying something about an INFj girl who went to the States, dragged a guy back with her and then went back to her ex? Is this her??
That was my interpretation: she's trying to improve/add some spice/whatever you care to term it into the relationship and he's not taking the hint. Doesn't necessarily mean he's in trouble... but if she's the aforementioned girl...uh...*cough*
Hey UDP and Tiny. Very perceptive of you tiny, yes this is that exact same couple. That particular occurance was years ago now, i would hope they are mostly past it. He is a doctor, just began his internship this year, so its certianlly a test for them because the hours he is working are immense. I must admit ive seen some strain in the relationship lately. Nothing that has me seriously worried though. Jesus if the young dual couple breaks up that would actually give ME a bit of a shake i think.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Well clearly just because you're in a dual couple, that doesn't excuse you from paying attention to your partner. You have to be skilled at relationships to make them work, whatever your intertype relationship.
They take work, always.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
NO TINYDANCER I WILL NOT GIVE YOU A MASSAGE STOP ASKIN
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
god, I love that soliloquy. (I will talk shakespeare at the slightest provocation, so should probably not derail this thread...but, you know, that's a topic I'll never turn down!)
on topic, about the ESTj turning down going to massage classes - was it because he was actually busy at the time? because if someone asked me to skip work/uni to go to a massage class, there's very little likelihood I'd say yes. also, there's a bit of a sense that it is something I should automatically know how to do - so going to a class on massage isn't really something that wholly appeals to me. I mean, do I really need someone to *teach* me how to do it? then again, I use trial-and-error as my learning process a *lot* so it may just be a me thing rather than a type thing.
so, meatburger, I'm not trying to excuse your friend. but um, I can see reasons for why he may not want to go to the class that have nothing to do with lacking intimacy with his girlfriend.
allez cuisine!
I think everything you suggested is right on the money actually. Hes pretty good to his girlfriend i dont think he has to everything she suggests. If he does im gonna call him pussy whipped
@ Luis. Give Tiny a massage man, shes asking so nicely.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Well, maybe, if she asks nicely.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
- Voltaire
Yeah, I'm sure I would actually learn there, it's just I'm also stupidly stubborn and don't like showing that I don't actually really know everything naturally. (I was trying to be honest, not reasonable.)
allez cuisine!
lol! ESTjs & INFjs ARE duals! 'Cause my INFj friend would never ever ever ask someone to shirk responsibility. I, on the other hand, know full well she's trying to buy a house and am prying at her to sail a 50 ft boat to the Bahamas insteadwas it because he was actually busy at the time? because if someone asked me to skip work/uni to go to a massage class, there's very little likelihood I'd say yes.
Well, I'd totally love a massage, but I don't know if I can choose between a massage and a voodoo doll. Both could be so therapeutic...
Personally, I am not the type of person who would notice other people's tension and discomfort, unless it's obvious. Like someone could tell me that their neck/shoulders hurt and it wouldn't come naturally to me that I can actually do something about it.
Oh no... for my SO's (btw, I like the abbreviation) if they ask me to give them a massage I would definitely do it. Of course, it depends on the situation and level of the relationship with the person. For me being able to provide meaningful physical comfort to someone I care about makes me feel good, and I take it as an accomplishmentYeah, I have the same problem, but I guess I just don't like asking for a massage (or any help). I feel kind of guilty and like I'm imposing too much, and just like I'm asking for something I shouldn't be asking for.
And yeah, I also approach massages as a puzzle I have to solve: get to the source of the pain and fix it!
Since I'm not really confident in other people's need for massages and the like, going about to ask if they need one is uncomfortable. This also applies to physical affection, which I don't give unless I know they need it or I'm confident enough to do it and not care if it's rejected in the least bit. If I'm with someone who doesn't care about it, or won't make the situation weird, then I gradually let loose. If I feel comfortable enough with someone, I would actually give massages and affection all the time for no reason, even if it doesn't hurt
On the topic of caring, the way I look at Delta ST's is this way: considering that they are not really inclined to talk about how they feel about people, which is fine by me, how else then can you know your standing with them if they don't show any physical signs also? That's why I find it difficult to establish something with them sometimes because I have nothing to work with, as in the level of caring. If I don't get any, I just get gradually turned off and think that I should just be moving on.
gay sex
Last edited by istpunk; 07-17-2008 at 08:37 AM.
wow man. Sucks to be you
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
I wouldn't really want someone asking me if I wanted a massage - I mean, that question generally makes me feel a little uncomfortable because I start thinking 'does that person want me to say yes? will I be imposing if I say yes? do they actually want me to say no, but just acknowledge that they offered?' And if I complain that my shoulders/back/whatever hurts, I'm not saying that to fish for a massage. I wouldn't expect someone to extrapolate that from my statement.Personally, I am not the type of person who would notice other people's tension and discomfort, unless it's obvious. Like someone could tell me that their neck/shoulders hurt and it wouldn't come naturally to me that I can actually do something about it.
Oh no... for my SO's (btw, I like the abbreviation) if they ask me to give them a massage I would definitely do it. Of course, it depends on the situation and level of the relationship with the person. For me being able to provide meaningful physical comfort to someone I care about makes me feel good, and I take it as an accomplishment
Since I'm not really confident in other people's need for massages and the like, going about to ask if they need one is uncomfortable. This also applies to physical affection, which I don't give unless I know they need it or I'm confident enough to do it and not care if it's rejected in the least bit. If I'm with someone who doesn't care about it, or won't make the situation weird, then I gradually let loose. If I feel comfortable enough with someone, I would actually give massages and affection all the time for no reason, even if it doesn't hurt
On the topic of caring, the way I look at Delta ST's is this way: considering that they are not really inclined to talk about how they feel about people, which is fine by me, how else then can you know your standing with them if they don't show any physical signs also? That's why I find it difficult to establish something with them sometimes because I have nothing to work with, as in the level of caring. If I don't get any, I just get gradually turned off and think that I should just be moving on.
In terms of in a relationship context, being on the receiving end of physical demonstration of affection, like massages, or even just hugs, for no apparent reason, sounds pretty damn blissful. Like, I think I'd appreciate that more than anything verbalised. And um, it's definitely something I wouldn't want to talk about - I mean, that's one of the key benefits of physical affection, not having to talk about it and call attention to it/focus on it! There's also the aspect of it being a manifestation that I can see/touch of feelings, which is always more reliable to me.
Hmmm...I think a more reliable judge of whether I physically demonstrate how I feel about people to them would be someone other than myself, but in the other LSE I know well, he definitely is more...relaxed around people he likes. We both have a tendency of putting our hand on the other person's arm to emphasise a point (but I'd only do that with friends). His body language becomes a lot more open, his dialogue a lot less interrogative - whereas when he's around people he doesn't know or doesn't like, he'll pull himself in tighter, sit taller, and not volunteer personal information/anecdotes.
I know I am very particular about who I let into my personal space. I pretty much have no boundaries when it comes to my best friends and the more I like a person, the more likely I am to deal with them being physically near me. But other people? Really need to keep their distance! I don't like people crowding me, at all. And yeah, I guess I do see physical touches as little non-verbal signs of affection, albeit just friendly affection. So like, that would be a pat on the shoulder or arm.
Without knowing the context of what you're referring to, I couldn't say what that absense of physical signs would mean in my case - in general I wouldn't touch people I'm not already friends with? And even then, it depends on our relationship, and the specific social context we're in. Sorry about being so vague!
allez cuisine!
The thought of anyone other than my boyfriend "touching" me is...repulsive. I don't know why I have such a hang-up with it. Maybe my upbringing. I don't think i've ever hugged or purposely touched one of my parents and I don't have any intentions to in the future. It's very uncomfortable and awkward.
It's hard for both in the situation--it's tough not knowing how to verbalize or show someone you care and so the threat of having them leave is always something that's on the mind. If someone is basing how much I care with how much affection I show, they'll be quite disapointed. Just the fact that I'm talking to you and including you in my life shows that I care a great deal about you. If I make an effort to be with you or initiate contact, I thoroughly enjoy you. It's a bit of a cold approach and to be honest, I don't know how people put up with that at times. I could never be in a relationship with myself.On the topic of caring, the way I look at Delta ST's is this way: considering that they are not really inclined to talk about how they feel about people, which is fine by me, how else then can you know your standing with them if they don't show any physical signs also? That's why I find it difficult to establish something with them sometimes because I have nothing to work with, as in the level of caring. If I don't get any, I just get gradually turned off and think that I should just be moving on.
Yes.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I understand what you're saying. What I mean in terms of physical signs depends on gender of course too (reading back on what I wrote it was pretty vague). Let me see if I can explain it better.I wouldn't really want someone asking me if I wanted a massage - I mean, that question generally makes me feel a little uncomfortable because I start thinking 'does that person want me to say yes? will I be imposing if I say yes? do they actually want me to say no, but just acknowledge that they offered?' And if I complain that my shoulders/back/whatever hurts, I'm not saying that to fish for a massage. I wouldn't expect someone to extrapolate that from my statement.
In terms of in a relationship context, being on the receiving end of physical demonstration of affection, like massages, or even just hugs, for no apparent reason, sounds pretty damn blissful. Like, I think I'd appreciate that more than anything verbalised. And um, it's definitely something I wouldn't want to talk about - I mean, that's one of the key benefits of physical affection, not having to talk about it and call attention to it/focus on it! There's also the aspect of it being a manifestation that I can see/touch of feelings, which is always more reliable to me.
Hmmm...I think a more reliable judge of whether I physically demonstrate how I feel about people to them would be someone other than myself, but in the other LSE I know well, he definitely is more...relaxed around people he likes. We both have a tendency of putting our hand on the other person's arm to emphasise a point (but I'd only do that with friends). His body language becomes a lot more open, his dialogue a lot less interrogative - whereas when he's around people he doesn't know or doesn't like, he'll pull himself in tighter, sit taller, and not volunteer personal information/anecdotes.
I know I am very particular about who I let into my personal space. I pretty much have no boundaries when it comes to my best friends and the more I like a person, the more likely I am to deal with them being physically near me. But other people? Really need to keep their distance! I don't like people crowding me, at all. And yeah, I guess I do see physical touches as little non-verbal signs of affection, albeit just friendly affection. So like, that would be a pat on the shoulder or arm.
Without knowing the context of what you're referring to, I couldn't say what that absense of physical signs would mean in my case - in general I wouldn't touch people I'm not already friends with? And even then, it depends on our relationship, and the specific social context we're in. Sorry about being so vague!
When it comes to women I frequent, I am the last person you would see being touchy-feely, to the point that they would think that I'm not interested in them at all (which on one occasion made a girl actually interested in me, but I didn't feel the same way, but that's another irrevelant story). I respect personal boundaries a lot, even though I might feel like breaking them sometimes. What I meant before wasn't that I necessarily need to have physical affection by a girl I'm getting to know, but that I don't have much to work with if I don't get that or any verbal displays of affection. By verbal it would be like: "nice to see you," "I missed you," etc, but really meaning it. By physical it would be like: pat on the back, kiss on the cheek (i know this depends on the culture), friendly hug. On the other hand, I prefer that to constant and excessive smothering...
When it comes to guys, I do see that it's easier, considering that boundaries are different. I wouldn't see myself slapping a girl hard in the back (before any of you start thinking I meant the "upper back," not the booty!!
Come to think of it, I take back what I wrote in the last post about not knowing, since there are other ways too. Maybe helping me out with something that I need, or just talking to me with good-will.
Being told that in person would be enough. I think that a lot of the times, people take for granted simple phrases like that. The only thing I ask is to know what is going on inside the person, in terms of how I/people/things make them feel. Everything leading to that is just a "means." I don't like complicated ways of demonstrating affection, I just want the most efficient way of knowing how someone feels with no complication or misinterpretation. Just telling me things like what you bolded and in a way that's serious can't get any better I think. But if I don't get anything, I just get really confused.
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