View Poll Results: what is Snowden's sociotype?

Voters
10. You may not vote on this poll
  • ILE (ENTp)

    3 30.00%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    2 20.00%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    1 10.00%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    1 10.00%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    1 10.00%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    2 20.00%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Results 1 to 34 of 34

Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #1
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Edward Snowden

    I've heard LII recently but don't find it particularly convincing. Tech (intel) fields I'm always thinking Te> Ti; He is very calm and collected in the manner of speech, unlike LII imo.

    What do you suggest? He talks about specifics, about concrete risks etc - rather not so abstract imo. At one point he said 'you focus on only one thing, and that's the mission', rather strategy may...be...? And at one point he implies his safety is not his #1 priority and that he's comfortable with the costs of his decisions.

    This is the video @wacey shared with me that made me wonder:
    [video down]


    Quotes by Edward Snowden:

    Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
    ― Edward Snowden

    The reason you're reading this book is that I did a dangerous thing for a man in my position: I decided to tell the truth.
    ― Edward Snowden

    Study after study has show that human behavior changes when we know we’re being watched. Under observation, we act less free, which means we effectively *are* less free.
    ― Edward Snowden

    Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give to an American.

    These programs were never about terrorism: they're about economic spying, social control, and diplomatic manipulation.
    They're about power.

    The freedom of a country can only be measured by its respect for the rights of its citizens, and it’s my conviction that these rights are in fact limitations of state power that define exactly where and when a government may not infringe into that domain of personal or individual freedoms that during the American Revolution was called “liberty” and during the Internet Revolution is called “privacy.

    The government should be afraid of the people, the people shouldn't be afraid of the government.

    I was reminded of what is perhaps the fundamental rule of technological progress: if something can be done, it probably will be done, and possibly already has been.

    In the 1990s, the Internet had yet to fall victim to the greatest iniquity in digital history: the move by both government and businesses to link, as intimately as possible, users’ online personas to their offline legal identity.

    Technology doesn’t have a Hippocratic oath. So many decisions that have been made by technologists in academia, industry, the military, and government since at least the Industrial Revolution have been made on the basis of “can we,” not “should we.” And the intention driving a technology’s invention rarely, if ever, limits its application and use.”






    Last edited by silke; 10-18-2020 at 04:38 AM. Reason: updated links

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,211
    Mentioned
    1550 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Weird. I always thought he was LII, but now that I can hear him, he sounds like Steve Jobs, but I think he's ESI.

    Yeah, he is running the same software as an ESI that I work with.

  3. #3
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I find him very pleasant to listen to, actually.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  4. #4
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Suz: actually that's something i experienced myself but didn't want to admit - he is very pleasant to listen to, i agree lol. His manner of speech is very very measured. So far i have introvert so Ixxx, but other than LII because I think he's a strategic-leaning type based on few statements (also LII tend to get quite worked up when they object to things and Snowden just doesn't)

  5. #5
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,512
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So LII can't be suave and convincing?

  6. #6
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @wacey indeed LIIs can be convincing but suave is not really something I'd associate with that type. Mostly here I'm paying attention to temperament where I don't see Ixxj rigidity namely and he seems to show little of himself more in line with Ixxp style afaik; I also don't hear him talk of Ti justice much. To a specific question about being pardoned he said that he wouldn't ask for it though he put it differently;

  7. #7
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,512
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    @wacey indeed LIIs can be convincing but suave is not really something I'd associate with that type. Mostly here I'm paying attention to temperament where I don't see Ixxj rigidity namely and he seems to show little of himself more in line with Ixxp style afaik; I also don't hear him talk of Ti justice much. To a specific question about being pardoned he said that he wouldn't ask for it though he put it differently;
    He put it differently because thats how holographic thinkers, think. They reword differently the same idea.

    And Im not sure your understanding of the temperments, but from my understanding he is very Ij rigid.

  8. #8
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,512
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    @wacey indeed LIIs can be convincing but suave is not really something I'd associate with that type. Mostly here I'm paying attention to temperament where I don't see Ixxj rigidity namely and he seems to show little of himself more in line with Ixxp style afaik; I also don't hear him talk of Ti justice much. To a specific question about being pardoned he said that he wouldn't ask for it though he put it differently;
    what can't they be suave? I guess if you are thinking they are cartoon aspies with spastic ADHD or something. Idea idea idea paper bag paper bag paper bag. The entirety of that interview is like PEAK Alpha Ti.

  9. #9
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    that's funny @wacey i was just thinking that they are not particularly distinguished for their suave ways,but in his case he just seems very concrete in his speech not very abstract at all for LII. Any sentences in particular from that video that makes you promote the Ti type for him? Examples are easy to follow.

  10. #10
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,206
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII, LSI, SLI. Good ability to stay calm but there is lots of history behind him that explains it. It is just something you get trained for. Just look what he did in his past.

    is way. According to my understanding he did something very non- by leaving his family behind. Am I right?
    Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 09-13-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15,766
    Mentioned
    1404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    ISTP

  12. #12
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,833
    Mentioned
    256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    probably LII

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    343
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII af.. no doubt. Watched the movie about him, he was always calm and collected throughout his life and is a very obvious logical type plus introvert. I also watch a live screening of him and he is democratic af too.

  14. #14
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    ISTP
    Strange concordance lol, but yes, I'd been debating between ILI and SLI. Does he still live in Russia?
    Last edited by Delilah; 09-19-2017 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #15
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,512
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Did you work with me? Have we talked since 2013? Please recontact me securely, or talk to @bartongellman. It’s time. https://t.co/AKmgF5AIDJ
    — Edward Snowden (@Snowden) August 3, 2016
    Time for what, Snowden?

  16. #16
    Jake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    658
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ILI (?)

  17. #17
    Marep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    TIM
    EII Sx/Sp 9w1 (954)
    Posts
    598
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII 1w9 sp/so

  18. #18
    dewusional entitwed snowfwake VewyScawwyNawcissist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Location
    uNdeR yOur SkIn
    TIM
    NF 6w5-4w5-1w9 VLEF
    Posts
    3,069
    Mentioned
    141 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    INFx like zuckerberg
    both sort of whistleblowers
    https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
    Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals

    self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective


    Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality

    I want to care
    if I was better I’d help you
    if I was better you’d be better

    Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1




  19. #19
    Lycantrope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    He showed lots of Ne. The annoying point is that most of his interviews always talk about the surveillance thing, which might create biases that he is very worried about it. The thing is: Is he worried about security from an Fi (ethical) point of view or Se (boundaries) point of view? How he spoke about what they did to his wife's privacy seemed more Fi/Fe.

    Let's say if you consider the signs (model B, I know it's controversial), he seems to talk in a less speculative kind of Ne and more into the 'actual', into what is the "bottom line" type of Ne of what the government real intentions are.

    His excessive worry about what is right and wrong, which is the "correct way" to do things according to the law. At some point, he even said firmly "I'm here to defend my country, the rights of people, not the government". Didn't seem like something an ILE would say or be too worried about. On the other hand, there was this need to give the choice to people, "the people" should decide what is right or wrong, which probably indicates a lower (2d) dimensional ethics. I had considered LSI at some point.

    But the overall vibe was always Ne, Ne, open parenthesis, then back to Ne etc. "Let's change things", "let's find out what is wrong so we can change things", "here are some details but they don't matter, here is the bottom line", etc. I'm between ILE and IEE . I'm inclined to say IEE due to a more humanitarian vibe versus an intellectual one (although he looks like some sort of LII at first glance). But looks can deceive. Also, let me point out that he mentioned being more into "the screen" and less social and he ports himself like a rational type, but I'd say that is more superficial, maybe this can be explained through sub-types and stuff like that. I'm convinced he is some Ne ego type (or at least valuing lots of Ne).

  20. #20
    Amoeba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Jesus loves you
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    453
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ILE Ti most likely. LII Ne is also possible but I see the Ne dom in the way he speaks. He's a hero imo

  21. #21
    I'm not hungry mommy bear BrainlessSquid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Where North meets South
    TIM
    IEE-Fi
    Posts
    1,289
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    he's clearly the same type as @Alive.
    Thus Ti dom.
    Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
    Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
    Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
    Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
    Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!

  22. #22
    Professional IEI Identifier on a peaceful hiatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    TIM
    LII-C
    Posts
    4,323
    Mentioned
    259 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MathHysteriaOfSoul View Post
    he's clearly the same type as @Alive.
    Thus Ti dom.
    Nah, I wouldn't risk my life for idealism. I think he's IEI
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15,766
    Mentioned
    1404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I wouldn't risk my life for idealism
    You underesteemate yourself.
    There is idealism and altruism training course with approved efficiency.

  24. #24
    I'm not hungry mommy bear BrainlessSquid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Where North meets South
    TIM
    IEE-Fi
    Posts
    1,289
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    Nah, I wouldn't risk my life for idealism. I think he's IEI
    I can't believe you're typing your identical as an IEI. the similarities between you two is almost the same as @Sol and @nifl
    I'm really impressed you can't see that
    Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
    Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
    Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
    Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
    Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!

  25. #25
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,206
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Snowden actually does not show lots of Ne. Ti is very clear. He is a tech guy so it waters down difference great deal between LII and LSI if he is LII.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  26. #26
    Amoeba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Jesus loves you
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    453
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MathHysteriaOfSoul View Post
    he's clearly the same type as @Alive.
    Thus Ti dom.
    He's not LSI.
    "Precision beats power and timing beats speed"

  27. #27
    Professional IEI Identifier on a peaceful hiatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    TIM
    LII-C
    Posts
    4,323
    Mentioned
    259 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MathHysteriaOfSoul View Post
    I can't believe you're typing your identical as an IEI. the similarities between you two is almost the same as @Sol and @nifl
    I'm really impressed you can't see that
    How am I similar? He gives interviews warning people about issues while I have no desire to influence others at all, because I have the weakest focus on Se. He put his life on the line for idealism, I would have at most quit my job. I'm not the kind of person to risk it all for a cause.

    In most of the talks he gives (at leadt the ones I have seen) he talks about time in some shape or form.

    https://youtu.be/0dGqR4ue8dg
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

  28. #28
    A turn of the phrase Expansion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2023
    Location
    Omni pretense
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    1,670
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ti top.

    He tries to frame everything into that structure, piece x piece, fitting them each in their proper place. Ti dominant is like a house of cards and each card is a brick that builds the tower. And his pieces are not a broad overview Ni, but static: Si.
    Last edited by Expansion; 04-19-2023 at 11:54 PM.



    A little better makes better more

    The good news in knowing you are wrong is you are right

    Taking things at face value is good only for a spell

    To experience is simple, to explain is divine



  29. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15,766
    Mentioned
    1404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alive View Post
    I have no desire to influence others at all
    When you say to others - you influence. And you talk not small.

  30. #30
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,935
    Mentioned
    699 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    LII
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  31. #31
    Professional IEI Identifier on a peaceful hiatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    TIM
    LII-C
    Posts
    4,323
    Mentioned
    259 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    When you say to others - you influence. And you talk not small.
    The question is: am I risking my life doing that. Would I abandon my wife for an idealistic cause? Would I write memoirs about my life? The answer to all of this is is simple to me, "no".

    https://youtu.be/EezWIxcinnw

    His wife, whom he mentions several times during the interview, has the same type as him.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

  32. #32
    thistle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    563
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like the description above about Ti dominant being like a house of cards. In conversation with Gavin Wood I feel like Edward Snowden more effectively appeals to the audience's emotions (to spur thoughts, make you feel taken aback, frustrated, angry).



    Gavin gives more of an impression of rapid movement forward. He seems more optimistic, when you listen to his and Edward's points of view alongside each other (?)
    They are both passionate in their own way.

  33. #33
    Professional IEI Identifier on a peaceful hiatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    TIM
    LII-C
    Posts
    4,323
    Mentioned
    259 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Jul 2023
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LSI

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •