Question for Ni egos

[redbaron]

Do you find yourself in particular situations where you think you already know what's going to happen and behave accordingly? Thus confusing others or getting way ahead of everyone? Do you see this as a positive or a negative trait? Do you do things to stop yourself from jumping ahead, or do you feel like it's good to be the prophet and lead others in that direction?

[crazedrat]

yes, it happens the most when talking to other people. ill say the end conclusion and then they'll reply with the 1 step ahead answer, then i'll ask another question and they'll answer, then i'll ask another question and they'll answer the same thing i said. i see it as a weakness for the other person, never a weakness for myself. the person is too ego driven to say 'i don't know' in those situations. so they hold onto their positions and i have to question them, and when i do they get defensive like i'm attacking them.

[FDG]

Do you find yourself in particular situations where you think you already know what's going to happen and behave accordingly? Thus confusing others or getting way ahead of everyone? Do you see this as a positive or a negative trait? Do you do things to stop yourself from jumping ahead, or do you feel like it's good to be the prophet and lead others in that direction?

Yeah, it happens. I think it's a positive trait, although to me that happens with more, let's say, practical stuff rather than prophetic - I can cut through traffic when crossing the city with the bike predicting the trajectories of the cars for example

[redbaron]

Sometimes it's so hard for me to believe that others don't see where things are headed, that I'm afraid I end up being condescending. Incredulous. And that I look down on people. And then retreat into myself with a feeling of frustrated superiority. And then I think well maybe I should slow down. But I can't. Cause I see it. and it's clear. and obvious. and then I'm impatient for it to unfold because I know I'm right. I often find it a frustrating position to be in. Which is probably one reason why Ni needs Se. To make it happen more quickly and lessen the frustration.

[Jarno]

It's pretty hard to come up with examples, which is strange since it's my first function. Probably tells something about how aware we are of our function...

But here's one general example.

Each time when I have to make choices, wether it's a crossroads we should take, or something else with a number of options, I can imagine really quickly what would happen if we choose option 1 or what would happen if we choose option 2. I can sense all kind of dangers quickly and say which option is riskiest and what kind of things might happen.

Also a real life example:

my friend was taunting the police (we were drunk) and I could exact predict the moment when it was time to leave. You watch their behaviour and know what they are gonna do next. The SLE friend of mine was clearly oblivious of this. On the other hand this could also all be just luck, it's not a thourough experiment, but it wouldn't surprise me if it had to do with Ni.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yes, I already know what somebody is gonna do or say usually. I dunno what it is, like just recently I knew my dad would criticize me for something when he stepped into the kitchen, and he did. And I recently told my therapist something like "You're really boring me because I already know what you're going to say." He looked offended a bit, well he was Delta so that was the last appointment with that therapist. =D

[marooned]

Yeah, it happens. I think it's a positive trait, although to me that happens with more, let's say, practical stuff rather than prophetic - I can cut through traffic when crossing the city with the bike predicting the trajectories of the cars for example

Isn't that more Se or Te?

[Jarno]

Where is the line drawn though, or can one be drawn, between 'knowing' based on natural intuitive forecasting, and knowing based on probability, fact and experience.

I once spotted two pit bulls leisurely sniffing the pavement while their owner was chatting with a friend. Nothing but maybe a bit of anxiety I seemed to pick up from the dogs that there will be a major incident in the near future. The thought was instantaneous, without analyzing circumstances, type of breed, etc. Two weeks later, the incident happened, and the owner was forced to euthanize one of the pitbulls. Now, one might argue with common sense that a pitbull will most likely be involved in an altercation at some point in its life, as would any breed of similar disposition. However, this prediction was specific as to time - near term, not at any point in its life.

that's not typical Ni. It sounds more like a gipsy fortune telling story. But I don't say it didn't happen, I just say you're overrating Ni here...

More likely Ni is when you see two pittbulls you get a 1 second duration mental picture of dogs running towards you and ripping you to shreds. Forseeings risks is typical Ni (Te)

[Jarno]

Isn't that more Se or Te?

I was wondering too whether that is Ni, I think that most people use 'trajectory projection' to drive through traffic.

[redbaron]

Isn't that more Se or Te?

Yeah I wondered that too.

[Blaze]

Where is the line drawn though, or can one be drawn, between 'knowing' based on natural intuitive forecasting, and knowing based on probability, fact and experience.

I once spotted two pit bulls leisurely sniffing the pavement while their owner was chatting with a friend. Nothing but maybe a bit of anxiety I seemed to pick up from the dogs that there will be a major incident in the near future. The thought was instantaneous, without analyzing circumstances, type of breed, etc. Two weeks later, the incident happened, and the owner was forced to euthanize one of the pitbulls. Now, one might argue with common sense that a pitbull will most likely be involved in an altercation at some point in its life, as would any breed of similar disposition. However, this prediction was specific as to time - near term, not at any point in its life.

i get this too. perhaps it's 7th function Ni. example:

about 15 years ago i met a woman in my aerobics class. just one time. she and i talked, she said she was training for the NYC marathon. there was something about her that looked vulnerable, even though she obviously had a lot of strength and endurance to be training for a marathon. i knew something bad was going to happen to her.

about a week later she was brutally raped and murdered by the infamous "Bike Path Rapist".

13 years later, the rapist was finally caught. he was a family man. an upstanding citizen. i met his wife, who was divorcing him, in a support group for divorcing people. i didn't predict meeting his wife, but somehow it surprised me not at all.

[redbaron]

i get this too. perhaps it's 7th function Ni. example:

about 15 years ago i met a woman in my aerobics class. just one time. she and i talked, she said she was training for the NYC marathon. there was something about her that looked vulnerable, even though she obviously had a lot of strength and endurance to be training for a marathon. i knew something bad was going to happen to her.

about a week later she was brutally raped and murdered by the infamous "Bike Path Rapist".

13 years later, the rapist was finally caught. he was a family man. an upstanding citizen. i met his wife, who was divorcing him, in a support group for divorcing people. i didn't predict meeting his wife, but somehow it surprised me not at all.

whoa, BIZARRE.

[Blaze]

i know.

i helped to catch the university heights rapist, too, in 1990.

[redbaron]

i know.

i helped to catch the university heights rapist, too, in 1990.

are you serious?????

[Blaze]

yes. i was an intended victim. thankfully, i was sleeping on a loft and could not be easily attacked. the perp ended up being someone on the fringe of a crowd i ran with. he didn't even go to college. i helped the police figure out who it was through a process of deduction. (complex series of events and personalities).

[Azeroffs]

i get this too. perhaps it's 7th function Ni. example:

about 15 years ago i met a woman in my aerobics class. just one time. she and i talked, she said she was training for the NYC marathon. there was something about her that looked vulnerable, even though she obviously had a lot of strength and endurance to be training for a marathon. i knew something bad was going to happen to her.

about a week later she was brutally raped and murdered by the infamous "Bike Path Rapist".

13 years later, the rapist was finally caught. he was a family man. an upstanding citizen. i met his wife, who was divorcing him, in a support group for divorcing people. i didn't predict meeting his wife, but somehow it surprised me not at all.

I don't think this is Ni.. actually based on the bold it seems more Ne. As an Ni-ego, I would dismiss a thought like that as nonsense. If I did sense something like that, my thinking would literally be "I get a feeling something bad is going to happen to her... eh, doubt it, don't see any good reason why." Maybe because I'm logic based, but I think Ni tends to try be a little more realistic. It is in fact more probability oriented rather than possibility.

[Blaze]

I don't think this is Ni.. actually based on the bold it seems more Ne. As an Ni-ego, I would dismiss a thought like that as nonsense. If I did sense something like that, my thinking would literally be "I get a feeling something bad is going to happen to her... eh, doubt it, don't see any good reason why."

it's not Ne. Ne is more everyday, immediate possibilites. these intuitions were in the probability category. 7th function, i'm convinced. i don't get these that often. the last time i had one of these was in January 2008. it was about what turned out to be the stock market housing bubble crash.

Ni egos would have Ne type of deep seated intuitions. i have no idea what these would be like.

[Blaze]

with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. i'll answer questions, but i won't argue.

[Azeroffs]

Fuck, I'm slow today....

Well, at least I'm not the only one who thought so
...about it not being Ni that is..

[Blaze]

Ne does not forecast.

[Azeroffs]

with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. i'll answer questions, but i won't argue.

please explain?

[Blaze]

please explain?

what is your question, Azeroffs?

[Azeroffs]

Ne does not forecast.

Ne comes up with possible scenarios. Potentials. What is capable of becoming.

Ni comes up with likely scenarios. Trends. What will likely happen.


Do you honestly think that it is realistic to believe that something bad will happen to somebody simply because they seem weak? a likely trend? no.. a potential occurrence? yes

edit: besides you're an Ne-base/Ni-ignoring, why would you even consider that you use and trust Ni?

[Azeroffs]

I didn't say it was Ne. I don't think it was Ne.

I don't see why it couldn't be Ne, though I can see why some might be skeptical. Ne sees traits in people. If an Ne ego saw that someone seemed weak, and it simultaneously happened that they thought something might happen to this person, they would probably get a really strong feeling that it was true.

[redbaron]

for me, it usually takes several pieces of the puzzle through time before I can get to the confident knowing. I don't feel qualified to make snap predictions really. Even to myself. I spend a lot of time mulling stuff over and over again before I feel that confident. But then once I know, I feel like I really know and it seems obvious.

[Azeroffs]

what is your question, Azeroffs?

What do you think it was?

[Blaze]

Ne comes up with possible scenarios. Potentials. What is capable of becoming.

Ni comes up with likely scenarios. Trends. What will likely happen.


Do you honestly think that it is realistic to believe that something bad will happen to somebody simply because they seem weak?

no i do not. it is nowhere near as simple as that. if it was as simple as that, then i would only have to look at anybody and have all kinds of intuitions about what would happen to them in the future. which is not the case.

i'm saying that when i have a strong, weird, forecasting type of intuition, it's not that often. like every 10 years or so this happens. when i get a strong forecasting intuition it is quite strong, it is only somewhat based on Ne perceptions to the point that i wonder if it's even connected to Ne at all. like, i i just naturally think in Ne so i tend to explain things via Ne, as if i were looking for something real that i could point to that explains the forecast.

when forecasting comes upon me, i experience it as a strong deep compelling conviction. the last time i had one was in January 2008, when i knew that everything was going to change economically. the forecast was for the stock market crash in September. my convictions were so strong that i changed everything about my life that i could to prepare for an economic disaster.

[Blaze]

edit: besides you're an Ne-base/Ni-ignoring, why would you even consider that you use and trust Ni?

because i am not rigidly bound by tentative socionic explanations.

[Blaze]

for me, it usually takes several pieces of the puzzle through time before I can get to the confident knowing. I don't feel qualified to make snap predictions really. Even to myself. I spend a lot of time mulling stuff over and over again before I feel that confident. But then once I know, I feel like I really know and it seems obvious.

Ni leading=pretty conscious thoughtful process. not so much snap convictions.

[Azeroffs]

no i do not. it is nowhere near as simple as that. if it was as simple as that, then i would only have to look at anybody and have all kinds of intuitions about what would happen to them in the future. which is not the case.

i'm saying that when i have a strong, weird, forecasting type of intuition, it's not that often. like every 10 years or so this happens. when i get a strong forecasting intuition it is quite strong, it is only somewhat based on Ne perceptions to the point that i wonder if it's even connected to Ne at all. like, i i just naturally think in Ne so i tend to explain things via Ne, as if i were looking for something real that i could point to that explains the forecast.

when forecasting comes upon me, i experience it as a strong deep compelling conviction. the last time i had one was in January 2008, when i knew that everything was going to change economically. the forecast was for the stock market crash in September. my convictions were so strong that i changed everything about my life that i could to prepare for an economic disaster.

Ne isn't so much about forecasting. I agree. But, Ne sees potential in people. Ne have very strong ideas about how something can be something else, and similarly it can see that someone is more capable then someone else. Therefore, it can see that someone is weak, though they may appear strong, and therefore be more likely to be harmed.

Ne indirectly forecasts through an innate understanding of people. It is in no way different from Se forecasting through an obvious understanding of people. The difference is that Ne's forecasts are less obvious and so seem more impressive and worthy of being called a "forecast".

because i am not rigidly bound by tentative socionic explanations.

My main point is that this is not Ni. Ni doesn't make outlandish predictions off nothing. Quite the contrary, it tries to make realistic predictions with the help of Se.

If you want to make an argument about ESP, then it is the topic of another thread.


Maybe it is as you said, that you explain it via Ne, but I just have to point out how stereotypically Ne base this looks to me.

there was something about her that looked vulnerable, even though she obviously had a lot of strength and endurance to be training for a marathon.

You clearly made an "obvious" observation and disregarded it for what seemed to be true. I could be wrong, but this seems to show some mental comprehension/recognition of Se, though undervalued for a very strong and uninhibited use of Ne. I may be over analyzing, but that is just my thoughts on it.

[717495]

I usually see Ne egos doing this. Forecasting, and what not. My ENTP dad is big on seeing potential and what is bound to happen, sort of seeing hidden implications that aren't even there sometimes, and usually I'm just like "whatever" I'll leave it up to imagination if I care enough about that specific thing. I don't really care about knowing for sure in a lot of circumstances. I think the basic Ni/Se theme is accepting uncertainty. I know something is bound to happen, and if it's anything major I'm sure someone who cares about me will warn me ahead of time. I use Ne too though, so I can usually see things happen ahead of time as they relate closer to me.

[ArchonAlarion]

it's not Ne. Ne is more everyday, immediate possibilites. these intuitions were in the probability category. 7th function, i'm convinced. i don't get these that often. the last time i had one of these was in January 2008. it was about what turned out to be the stock market housing bubble crash.

Ni egos would have Ne type of deep seated intuitions. i have no idea what these would be like.

"everyday, immediate possibilties"?

Like guessing whether someone likes warm or cold cookies?

SUBTLE STRAWMAN ALERT.

IM SORRY.

what do you mean by that?

[Blaze]

i don't think it's Ne or Ni, Azeroffs. it could be Se feeding Ni 7th or Se interacting with Ne feeding Ni 7th. i don't know any Se leading types who get into this type of thing though.

or it could be something completely different and nonsocionic. i don't really believe in ESP though.

edit: i don't think it's ego function Ni. but it could be unconscious function Ni. i say this because of how i experience it and because of what Ni leading people are saying about what Ni is like for them.

[Blaze]

"everyday, immediate possibilties"?

Like guessing whether someone likes warm or cold cookies?

no. like how i mostly perceive everything as i go about my business. oh look, that's a cool idea. we do this or that with it and it could turn out like this. that's how i think of Ne.

this thing that happens to me hardly ever happens. unlike the way i think about things and perceive them every day.

[Azeroffs]

i don't really believe in ESP though.

We agree here at least.

[717495]

no. like how i mostly perceive everything as i go about my business. oh look, that's a cool idea. we do this or that with it and it could turn out like this. that's how i think of Ne.

this thing that happens to me hardly ever happens. unlike the way i think about things and perceive them every day.

That's kind of a simplistic evaluation of Ne don't you think? This could easily be Se too.

[Blaze]

That's kind of a simplistic evaluation of Ne don't you think? This could easily be Se too.

do you want me to cut and paste from wikisocion so we can have that conversation here?

[Blaze]

We agree here at least.

at least. you give a nice, standard socionic interpretation...but you leave out the unconscious functions and their role. what human experience dimension do you give to your interpretations though? if you are not leading Ne, then how do you know exactly what it is like other than by listening to others who have it?

[717495]

do you want me to cut and paste from wikisocion so we can have that conversation here?

Sure, if you want.

[Blaze]

Sure, if you want.

i don't really want to. it's boring.