Are these examples of Si?

[Encrustacean]

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[Narc]

Sounds like Si ignoring or Si polr.

[TheWholeEnglish]

7) They appreciate when people buy them food (since they don't necessarily do it for themselves) but it also annoys them because they still want to take care of it themselves, even if it means eating poptarts for dinner.

Am I not supposed to eat those for dinner?
@lagerdemon?

[TheWholeEnglish]

Ah, man. If I turned out to be EIE I was totally going to use that Old Macdonald thing

GUYZ AM I EIE?!?!?!? Omg...

[TheWholeEnglish]

Not necessarily. You could be a galilean moon.

Io

i dnt know who i am anymore guyz!!!!!!!!!!

[chemical]

The thing is a lot of things here would be related to basic daily needs in the sensation department. I don't particularly like how most sources treat introverted/extraverted sensation, which is what inspired me to go into what I think Se is in that one thread I made. Most basic needs use some basic subjective and objective sensation both, and so you won't be able to differentiate them much..

While it was lengthy, the gist is really simple - Se should be anything to do with handling pure, objective sensory data. Anything where keenness of observation in what you can see, touch, move, and so forth. It can lead to reading signals that tell you how you can influence someone directly, though that will tend to be coupled with some kind of judgment.

Si tends to be associated in socionics though a lot with just your personal subjective sensory state. More about your relatedness to a sensory object than its properties as an object emphasized, if that makes sense. I think the reason they give comfort and health as the example is that, while there is certainly an objective basis to all those things, a full observation of the objective qualities in scorned in those cases to a subject's needs. One eliminates attentiveness to all those objective qualities which do not serve a subjective purpose.
When there's a special subjective significance to the sensory state one attains in interacting with some object, that's definitely Si - you perceive the object in all its detail, but your attention is focused on the subjective side of the perception, meaning you are accutely aware of your subjective responses to stimuli, how you envision them, etc.

[Iris]

Hey y'all... so I have just no clue how to start thinking about this stuff. Before you refer me to wikisocion, I've actually read it, I'm just not "seeing" it, if that makes sense.

For this thread I'm going to post a few detailed examples of stuff that I think falls into the realm of "Si." If you could, please tell me:
- Is this stuff actually Si? If you think it might be some other function, let me know which
- Especially if you read the whole post, where do you think Si would fall in the function order for this person?
(Even something like: "they could be Si-ignoring but Si-polr is out of the question" would be very helpful.)

 

1) Really terrible at paperwork and taking care of practical stuff (like, their car will be running on fumes and on the verge of breaking down before they take it into the shop), which sounded like Si-polr for EIEs at first, but how it manifests is that they end up getting it in at the last minute - very seldom do they actually neglect it, they just take care of things very grudgingly. Their bills are paid on time (but just barely).

2) As a college student, they have a healthy fear of screwing themselves over financially, so they sort of compulsively save money without actually doing the math or anything (because if they realize they have money to spare, they will probably spend it on something stupid).

3) They would literally never cook a meal for themselves, but they can cook, and occasionally enjoy cooking for others.

4) They eat very simple foods while living alone (i.e., toast every morning, mac n cheese/microwave food for dinner) but the idea of not being able to feed themselves kinda bothers them (i.e., depending on someone else).

5) They care about their looks, but don't really give a crap what their flat looks like. It is often extremely messy. Sometimes they will do things for it - like, they bought a pretty lamp with multicolored shades, but it looks out of place with the dirty socks strewn around it.

6) Otoh, they'd be angry if someone cleaned up their mess for them - they hate it when people move their stuff around.

7) They appreciate when people buy them food (since they don't necessarily do it for themselves) but it also annoys them because they still want to take care of it themselves, even if it means eating poptarts for dinner.

8) Dressing up to go out - I heard that Betas are rather fancy - this person isn't, but is also not casual. They dress down a little, but put a lot of effort into it. Even though they are a girl, they feel like they spend a long time doing their hair and such while trying to achieve an "effortless" look.

9) They find a lot of stuff that is probably "Si-related" very visually appealing (this may not be Si, but based on those Russian IM elements videos, it seems that way)
- Photos of nature are a mixed bag - they couldn't care less about flowers and hummingbirds, but photos of great mountain ranges and large bodies of water, anything that makes them feel small and insignificant, they like a lot.
- Media - two popular examples off the top of my head are the beginning of Madonna's "hung up" (where the dancers are stretching on the roof under a stormy sky, it seems very exciting...) and the beginning of Lady Gaga's "Pokerface" where she's getting out of the pool dressed in leather, and you can sort of see the textures and the dalmatians and lightning - that appeals to this person a lot (see videos mentioned below)
- Two movie examples that come to mind are the Zhang Ziyi films "Crouching tiger hidden dragon" and "house of flying daggers" - these are among the few movies they'd watch again, even just for the visual aspects

 

10) I don't know if this is Si or something else, but this person can be very "shallow" and judge people by their looks. Once they get to know someone, it is the opposite - if they like the person, they find them attractive physically. If someone is a good friend or romantic partner, their brain registers them as 100% beautiful. That defines their standards of beauty - people they have loved.

11) One of the few things that genuinely puts them on edge would be physical "numbness"

 

They can push through pain in some cases, but extreme pain does bother them (not going to put those examples)

Examples:

 

- A couple years ago they impaled their foot and needed 10 stitches (the spike went down through the top of the foot and stopped just short of the callous on the bottom) and the person refused any numbing agents (even refused ibuprofin)
- Over the course of their life, they've had at least 7 cavities, and gotten all but the first drilled without any numbing (because the numbing freaked them out the first time).
- In high school they knocked out one of their front teeth and got a fake tooth - the doctor absolutely refused to do the surgery without numbing (which, once their face was numb they just wanted to throw up the whole time - same with getting their wisdom teeth out - they could hear the crunching, and not feel it, and that scared the crap out of them) but in both cases they refused pain meds/vicodin after oral surgery
- They pierced their own nipples in college with a rather blunt instrument

On the other hand:
- They used to be a nurse
- They are deeply afraid of being paralyzed, like having a limb amputated or losing nerve control (not that anyone would wish this on themselves, but I don't think most people think about this too hard). They would literally rather die than be paralyzed.
- They're not a masochist, and they don't have a death wish, they're just very particular about how this stuff happens.

@chemical - if this isn't your cup of tea, no worries, but if you're interested, I'd appreciate your help
@William - I just tag you in everything, sorry. Does this sound like Si-valuing stuff to you?

Some of the first items sound more like Ti - problems using logical behavior. Those Ti problems that you described are not inconsistant with an EIE typing.

Regarding Si, as an EIE, I can tell you that I can fairly easily ignore minor physical discomfort, but not major pain. And I can be very squeamish about blood and severe pain. Going to the dentist is a nightmare for me. I require pain medication for serious medical procedures, like stitches, etc. It is also very hard for me to watch other people suffer .

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

does said person talk to themselves?

[darya]

Lol, sounds like a description of me (except the extreme pain thing).

[darya]

Yes but not in a nutty way - sort of a "thinking out loud" thing

I used to think it's normal to talk to yourself as in thinking out loud and that everybody does it, but then many people I've asked said it's weird behaviour

[chemical]

So knowing how stuff affects you? Like, "If I sit in that chair, my back will feel good?" Or is that too simplistic?

Basically there are really simple and really complicated instances of every one of the information elements, and the fusion of your subjective reactions to a sensory stimulus, however simple, is Si. So yes, this is why socionics constantly links especially alpha-Si with comfort, though in my view that's too narrow a view of Si.

I think if you want to decide if you're a sensor or intuitive, to some extent it helps to look at the overall differences, and then pick between Ne/Ni and Se/Si.

Is that the "Musings on Se?"

Yes! Except it's filled with a lot of random stuff by now, so I tried to summarize. The point of my "musings" was I don't like the idea of Se=forceful personality, and I think it's much more about just noting concrete factors in moving stuff in your environment. Think basic physics force: valuing it does not mean valuing its uses in strong magnitudes. A small push sometimes is a lot more effective than a big one.

Can you think of an example?

Well as simple as analyzing how to take apart some sort of mechanical device requires Se. Gauging how much force to apply to each part, what kind of force, where the objective properties of the device are more important for this process than the subjective factor.

Whereas when one is more concerned with one's response to sitting on the chair than the properties of the chair as an object, this starts getting into Si more.

Note though - please do not fall into the trap I see on the forums of people thinking you basically just use your ego functions at the exclusion of their opposite orientations, like for instance Fi-Se but not Si and Fe. That's just not realistic. There's a good technical reason for this too that I'm not going to go into too much for now. Essentially one's program focuses on either the static or dynamic aspects of reality, but that's it. Fi-Se for instance is the ethics of how to move people based on definite objective perception and as a rational type they may be more interested in deciding the rationale of how to do what and why, than in actually engaging the perceptions and reacting to them (so this type may appear less directly involved than the Se-lead, and also use Ti more). The laws it uses are more or less set, and at most you can add to or subtract from them. It's not about changing objective states, like influencing the emotional mood. However, when you follow the laws of Fi, you may have to, in living them out, use Fe here and there.

[Iris]

So knowing how stuff affects you? Like, "If I sit in that chair, my back will feel good?" Or is that too simplistic?

I usually equate Si with physical comfort. It is unvalued for me, so I generally find myself feeling impatient with people who place too much value on it. I like to be comfortable, don't get me wrong. But beyond a certain point, too much comfort seems unnecessary.

[silke]

@Spider is this the guy in your photos? he looked possibly SLI

[Persephone]

Oh you two are lovely, just wanted to hug both of you, @William and @Spider

[Ron Mexico]

Am I not supposed to eat those for dinner?
@lagerdemon?

Yo youve been missing for a h ot minute now

[FDG]

Spider your avatar is really really distracting, just sayin'