Non-dual love and "soulmates"
Do you think that someone who is not your dual could be right for you and someone you want to spend a long period of time, if not a lifetime, with? Does knowledge of duality effect your choices in who to date, and how you react to conflicts when they arise? How do you think others perceive dual relations from the outside vs. relations less favorable from a Socionics standpoint?
Last edited by PistolShrimp; 05-31-2012 at 03:48 PM.
yes.Originally Posted by PistolShrimp
no, I don't believe so.Does knowledge of duality effect your choices in who to date, and how you react to conflicts when they arise?
I don't know.How do you think others perceive dual relations from the outside vs. relations less favorable from a Socionics standpoint?
Yep. I have a relationship with my activator, and I've never ever loved anyone as much as him. I've dated duals too and they're great and fun, but this activator of mine is different from anyone else. Sosionics can be a useful tool, but it isn't everything.
Duals are usually better for me as friends – perhaps with benefits, but as friends anyway – I've noticed. Haha... Perhaps I've dated enough ILEs to know they cause all kinds of trouble.
Last edited by Aivonaima; 05-31-2012 at 11:57 PM.
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
Idk, my "dream man" has been a Si-LSE as long as I can remember, I mean even before finding Socionics I knew that that would be the type of person I'd feel comfortable with. It is the type I'm most likely to fall in love with, but it is very possible to fall even for a conflictor. If I ever fall in love & want to be with a non-dual then that person is obviously a better match for me than a dual to whom I am not attracted to and don't want to be with (assuming they're not violent/narcissisistic/anything like that ofc). It's hard to say anything about life commitment beforehand.
I guess.. I'm better at spotting duals now than before finding out about socionics, and may put more effort in getting things to work. If someone was arranging a blind date to me and told me there are two candidates & their types, I'd probably choose a dual/delta st over any other type.Does knowledge of duality effect your choices in who to date, and how you react to conflicts when they arise?
About conflicts: I guess I've gotten more tolerant & better at communicating with people from other quadras after learning socionics. I can e.g. handle Fi polrs better and don't consider them malicious assholes for the things they do/say as easily as before. With LSEs I don't think there has been much change.. the Ni polr arguing style can be very excruciating so I prefer to just leave them alone, heh. This all applies to relationships in general btw, not just dating.
I'm not sure what you mean..?How do you think others perceive dual relations from the outside vs. relations less favorable from a Socionics standpoint?
i really dislike this romanticized notion of duality. if things happen to fall into place by themselves, that's wonderful, but there's no guarantee it will happen with every dual you meet. sure, duality is complementary and easy and straight-forward and everything. but it doesn't mean every other relationship is somehow imperfect or lacking. i've never fallen for an ESTj and the closest thing to a soul-mate that i had was most likely INFp so w/e. if i ever meet an ESTp i really want to fuck then who gives a shit about socionics, lol.
I disagree, I'd say that every relationship is imperfect and lacking.
That's just part of the fun.
Easy Day
If so many people cannot figure out their own type, why do you think they will figure out the type of their mate?
Socionics -
the16types.info
Yes of course. But it would never be as good as it could be if it was with a dual.
Yes, because I've made so many mistakes earlier. For example dated quasis etc. But one has to be careful here. Duality alone is not enough, it has to be with a special dual.Does knowledge of duality effect your choices in who to date, and how you react to conflicts when they arise?
But usually it just happens, I run into an ENTP and we start dating because it feels right.
Socionics has made me more aware of my own reactions, or more willing to accept them. It's like the thing in my signature that Aushra wrote. "But people don't want to see these signals, hiding their real reactions, thinking that things will change."
It's perfectly fine to romantizice duality, because it IS romantic. It's different, fresh, something unexpected, but yet familiar, full of potential.
This is what bugs me about the concept of duality; it makes all other relationships seem inferior, and encourages a "grass is greener" perspective if you're in a relationship with a non-dual. Maybe this is the truth, but I'm not sure.
The people I find myself most consistently attracted to have been Te-egos, but that shouldn't exclude the possibility of any other type working for me. The things that allow two (or more) people to form and maintain a steady relationship are fickle, and the simple factor of sociotype is one of dozens that go into determining what works and what doesn't.
I don't really see my romantic interests in the soulmate sense. To say that someone's "right for you"..what would that even imply in reality? ...people aren't two peices of a puzzle that fit together perfectly and stay together forever - even though alot of people cling to the belief of their soulmate union. This mentality must be inborn and set off by hormones with some perceived emotional lack. Alot of the time it sets the ground for dissapointment and jealousy instead of enjoying the moment and growing spiritually within a relationship. It's given that people will idealize the concept of the duality. I don't know if I can see myself together with one person for the rest of my life... In every person that comes into your life there's opportunity to learn and grow and discover new things about yourself through one another... but no one can really "complete you" people and relationships are not static we're constantly changing, does it matter if it lasts forever? Anyways since learning socionics I for certain have an easier time in the romantic sphere, I know what to look for & why I do. Conflict-wise I've found that I don't take it so personally anymore, which is a relief:.
ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL (WHICH THEY NEVER ARE), a dual is always better. But there are so many other things! Goals, education, intelligence, tastes, dreams, attitude towards money, physical attraction/chemistry, philosophy of life, etc.
Look, I hope no one on here is naive enough to believe that they could be happy with any dual they meet. That's simply not true. I know several duals I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life with. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't look for one if you're unattached. And if you do meet someone who's a good match, but not a dual, you should embrace that while also realizing that it might not be the best you can do. You would then be giving up the possibility of finding a better match. Because I do believe that a dual is always more psychologically compatible. Over time. Through hardship. Best to handle these rough times with the least bit of energy going to clear up miscommunications and psychological values that are naturally at odds with one another.
Beware, life is hard. Even with a dual. But easier with a dual than another type ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL (WHICH THEY NEVER ARE).
edit: I feel like that was a "hear ye! hear ye!" moment. *stepping down off my soapbox*
IEI-Fe 4w3
Duality? Socionics isn't everything. Let me tell a story of someone I don't normally get along with.
I have a guy on my business team who I naturally don't click with. We'll call him 'J'. Other people I click with naturally, and can joke around, have fun, even nonverbal stuff is understood... one guy, 'W', I suspect is my dual. With this guy, J, however, miscommunication is common, and for many months we have been frustrated with one another. Duals? I HIGHLY doubt it. We both leave the conversation feeling somewhat dissatisfied. We both want to push the conversation in another direction.
I wanted to have a better friendship with J. Why? Because he's on my team, and I plan on being business partners with him for years. So I spent 2 months reading people-skills books, sharpening my communication, learning to appreciate people's differences. The results were AMAZING. We no longer get frustrated with one another, and have sincere respect for each other's loyalty and work ethics. When it does come to discussing important matters, we take a conscious effort to speak so that things are understood clearly, saying what we feel, what impressions we got, how we feel about certain things. Do we ever understand each other perfectly? Nope. But we're at least able to understand where each other's hearts are at.
Was it worth it? Definitely. We have great respect for each other, we can rely on each other, and although we don't click naturally, we're mature, and moving in the right direction, both striving for the same things.
Now, as for socionics, is it ok to have a non-dual soulmate? ABSOLUTELY. I'd say in some cases you can have a cross-quadra soulmate. Why do I say that? Because 1) socionics is only one aspect of a successful relationship and 2) love isn't necessarily the most important thing in the world anyway! What are your goals you want to accomplish with your life? What do you stand for? Do you even have goals? If what you want in 5, 10 years from now lines up with what your partner wants 5, 10 years from now, then go for it. I view that as more important than duality.
To answer the other original question, I wouldn't say knowledge of duality affects my decision whom to date, but knowledge of socionics does. It's not the be-all end-all, but some of the things I've learned here I've applied successfully to improve my relationships in real life. Was it worth the mindshare to study socionics, is it worth the space in my brain? I still say yes. But I don't obsess over it.
I agree with RedBaron. Duality seems to generally make things easier from what I've seen, and probably would make everything better if every other factor in the relationship and about the individuals were identical, but of course people are very individual. I know tons of very happy non-dual couples. And a relationship is to some extent (and there are limitations) what you make it.
Last edited by Slacker; 05-31-2012 at 10:31 PM.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
@Mountain Dew
I reckon that "J" was your conflictor or super-ego... you need advanced people skills (communicative facility and interpersonal knowledge) to get along with them on a kind of superfical level...thats possible, but would you really consider a romantic relationship/or close friendship with someone like that? It's just so much effort with little reward compared to duality.. don't you think?
Socionics has no influence.
I had a good long conversation with a friend of mine the other day about this very issue. I don't believe that two people can be "made" for each other, rather that relationships occur more or less out of lucky circumstances where two people's lives just intersect at some point. And I do agree that real fulfillment must ultimately be self-generated. But even so, this really just sounds like the things that "intelligent people" say about relationships, and I don't know if I can have a meaningful relationship with someone that isn't comfortable with the level of interpersonal connectivity and intimacy that I expect. Of course independence is important, and I wouldn't want anybody to consciously give that up for me, but I want something that's more than simply two people who happen to hook up and learn from each other; I can get that from anybody I meet.
No matter who you're with, you're giving up the possibility of finding a better match, but if you really click with someone, good compatibility, etc etc the liklihood of finding a better match is quite low. Just looking at things practically/statistically/realistically if you're with someone and not happy, don't stay, but if you ARE happy, then it's self-defeating and unrealistic to throw something good away on a mere possibility.
Each new criteria you add decreases the chances of something. For example, it's more likely to find someone you're attracted to than to find someone you're attracted to AND a dual. It's more likely to find someone you're attracted to and have good compatibility with than to find someone you're attracted to, have good compatibility with AND is a dual. It's more likely to find a dual you get along with than to find a dual you get along with AND are attracted to. To give up something that is great in every way except duality on the chance you'll find all of those things PLUS duality in someone else is foolish. Unless duality matters more to you than all those other things.
Whether it's related to socionics or not, I know, for a long term partnership, I need someone who is compatible communication-wise. Duality is optimal for that but I can think of a number of duals who aren't optimal for communication in terms of being on the same wave length. I can see myself going for people of different types simply because we have a mental, spiritual, and emotional connection that goes beyond any typology I know of. However, I can honestly say I find it hard to see myself doing a long term committed relationship with another SEE.
I, as said before, see socionics as more about communication than anything. I need someone who can let me be myself, be an intellectual equal, and be complimentary. Most likely I will end up with a dual, if anyone at all, because I have a sense of who is most comfortable and compatible from the start (I would say I have a very good gut intuition about prospective relationships), but if I were to make a decision based on infatuation alone, socionics would have little to do with it.
Of course, I see myself choosing a long term partner based on that communication compatibility and comfort, being on the same wave-length, sharing common values and goals and interests, mutual desire to be together, being intellectual matches, and having a sexual, emotional, and spiritual attraction, but on the other hand, I may be asking for a lot, but I'd rather have the best than second best. I'd rather be alone than partnered but having my heart wishing for more as that seems to defeat the purpose of being with someone and feels unfair to the other person.
Yeah I know I sound abit aloof & unromantic about it all.. from past experience i've come to a kind of conclusion that I would be better off without the internal drama & vulnerabilty to getting hurt that comes with falling in love, the highs are amazing but the lows aren't worth it. It's like I wouldn't mind falling for someone and getting into a committed faithful relationship for a period of time, but I its better for me personally not to idealize it too much and leave it open for change... but that means I can't completely let my emotions get the better of me and get carried away with love. I don't really crave a committed relationship anymore weirdly enough... but duality is pretty awesome
I get what you're saying. But thinking long term, knowing that duality makes lots of things easier, it would be silly not to make that one of your criteria. So you want a gorgeous blonde but one day she'll be gray. At least if she's a dual, you'll always complement one another in those particular ways. That's pretty important and lasts a lifetime.
And for what it's worth, I've felt a deep kinship with an SEI and an ESI and an IEI. So I know that there are really important connections you can have with people that aren't specifically duality. Still, why not put it up there on the list? You want a happy person, a dual, and someone who shares, say, 50% of your interests and has a similar education level. *shrug*
IEI-Fe 4w3
I tend to find my duals frequently more desirable, not saying I want to sleep with every SLE! no offense Rosie O'donnellbut yes maybe its because i'm a female but personality overides looks alot of the time and diminishes physical flaws.
Just for reference, do you have an instinct stack self-typing?Yeah I know I sound abit aloof & unromantic about it all.. from past experience i've come to a kind of conclusion that I would be better off without the internal drama & vulnerabilty to getting hurt that comes with falling in love, the highs are amazing but the lows aren't worth it. It's like I wouldn't mind falling for someone and getting into a committed faithful relationship for a period of time, but I its better for me personally not to idealize it too much and leave it open for change... but that means I can't completely let my emotions get the better of me and get carried away with love. I don't really crave a committed relationship anymore weirdly enough... but duality is pretty awesome
I'm really not sure but I'm prolly sp/sx.. 4-1-7 or 1-4-7, I'd like to make an enneagram type thread but I'm not active enough here for anyone to know enough about me to help me do that.
Mmm, yeah I figured you were sp/sx. All of the sp/sxs I've known have expressed the same sentiments as you when it comes to relationships, so I'd say there's a good pattern in terms of what they look for and expect out of relationships. It's funny, because I often feel like we're kinda on the same page and have good mutual understanding for what we're saying, but in practice it turns out completely opposite.
Everyone chooses what's most important to them in the end. If duality is very important to you, that's one of the main things you'll look for. Character trumps everything else for me. Ability and willingness to communicate is also important. Duality just isn't that important to me. Observing the happiest couples I know, none of them are duals. It's not really what matters most for longevity and happiness imo. But, what's important to me isn't what matters to someone else. Alignment in values matter. Ability to compromise and work together matters. Not everyone finds the same things important as I do, so not everyone should make the same kinds of choices. They should look for what they value most, and if duality is something they value most, then that's something they should look for. When they do, they'll have to give something else up. But, what they give up will be things that don't matter as much to them.
Duality isn't the right choice for everyone, but it might be for you.
A non-dual relationship could work. I don't think soul-mates exist. There is always someone better for you. The trick is to find the most mutually beneficial pairing without having the personal information of everyone on the planet.
lol
IEI-Fe 4w3
I've dated here and there and I've found I tend to get along really well with LIEs and SLIs romantically-- in hindsight at my past and at who I surround myself with now days.
Other types and I just don't cut it-- even ILI's who become usually good friends. But deep down...my lame "dream guy" has always leaned towards LIE (way, way before I became interested in typology of any kind), just similarities in the traits that I've always secretly wanted in a guy. And I love that they end up secretly loving my dorky traits as well.
I am in a semi-dual relationship: NeFi/SiFe
When I deided that I was finally ready to settle down, I wrote up a list of traits of the kind of person who would be compatible with me. I did not know about socionics at that time. I prioritized, rewrote, prioritized, rewrote, etc quite a few times over the course of about a year. Certain traits kept coming up. Each time I wrote up the list, I'd start from the bottom and ask myself if I could happily be with someone who did NOT have this trait, but had the ones above it. In this way, the list got shorter, and the top most important traits remained. These were non-negotiable traits for both me and the person to be capable of handling my neuroticness and PTSD issues.
Each time I dated a guy, and he did not fit those non-negotiable traits, I knew it couldn't be a long term relationship.
Then I met Richard, who met every single trait, except perhaps communicative (he's very very introverted, and shy).
It's not a perfect relationship, but he is most definitely what I needed... and still want. I often say that it's almost like he was a gift sent to me to help make up for the crap I went through.
I am so glad that I did not know about socionics at the time I met him (a little over 8 years ago). I might have totally missed out on someone so great for me, while hoping for greener grass elsewhere.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
BF is one thing. Marriage is something else, and yes, duality is optimal for marriage. The more exclusive the marriage, the more you will pine for a dual.
This is a good point. Socionics sees relationships from an objective perspective. Socionics knows you better than you know yourself! When you are with someone it is subjective. If you are with a non-dual it is in fact true that the grass is greener somewhere else, but you have to ask yourself: "does it matter to me?".
This is something that one can meditate over for a long time.
I'm married to my dual (13 or 14 years or something like that), and I'm still glad I didn't know about Socionics at the time. I don't know if I would have known the first time we met that he was my dual even. I could have sent him away and thought, "Don't waste your time. He's probably LSI."
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm in a relationship with a LII guy, making him my activator. We're poly, and thus, I'm able to inspect the green-ness of the otherside. I've been hanging out with my duals a lot during this relationship and enjoyed their company, yet still, nobody can beat him, even if I really love hanging out with ILEs. ILEs make a great company for doing fun and exciting things and having great conversations, but I could probably never imagine having a serious relationship with one of them, not anymore. D: They're too careless... But LIIs instead... I like how they're more stable, and their IJ temperament makes me tolerate them better for longer periods of time.
Both types have their own advantages; I usually stay close friends with my duals for long, long times – something that doesn't happen to me too often – but I've lived with one and learned from it.
Besides, LIIs are also infantile. No romance style problem here. That and quadra make the biggest difference for me. Although a mirror romantic relationship could get weird.
(My head feels like porridge and I'm having trouble with English at the moment... I hope I made my point clear enough for you guys to understand.)
"Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."
Wow, a.n., I love the quote in your signature. (did I already mention that?)
IEI-Fe 4w3
My activators heat me up, pretty quickly too (although we have some communication problems and some disputes). Too much time with them and I feel burnt out, so I need some time away from them and next time I see them we spark each other up again. Its like a fire between us...something feisty about the relationship and I like it.
My duals cool me down and suck me in, they just make me melt. I fall in love with them on the spot, although I wouldn't say this is real love (I don't even think that exists to be honest), its really just unconscious compatibility. I've only really recognized the girls though, and even when I really want to be with them it never happens. Even if im pretty straightforward about my interest with them they just...I don't get them, its annoying. I guess its part of that victim romance style, they're hot and cold. Sometimes they show interest and sometimes they just completely ignore me, and with my Fi polr...and Fe seeking, I get confused because I have doubts about whether they really like me or not. So I get confused, irritated and don't know what to do. I guess that's what Starfall says about her boyfriend. In the end, it just doesn't really get anywhere, at least it hasn't so far yet. I don't know if its me, or if its just that they can't seem themselves being with me, don't know... I read somewhere they do that hot-cold thing to see if the person really likes them, to make their aggressor's urge for them build up so that when they finally choose to give in, the aggressor will explode with passion...or something to that effect. I hate playing games, because I don't like wasting my time...unless im sure they like me (in other words, unless im sure I know I can win them).
With my activators we get along pretty fast, I could see myself being with them in the intimate sense, but with my duals its different.
With my activators could be either friends, or romantic with them...but with my duals its all or nothing...I really want to be with them intimately...otherwise nothing at all. No friends, no nothing, because I want them too much.
ENFjs are manipulative, and have the same concept (making they're aggressor chase them), but they aren't as manipulative as INFps (especially with a person's emotions, whether they do it consciously or not)...I can't stand it. I don't like having my emotions toyed with. Makes me resent them, turn cold, and not care. And when I do that they just come back, I give in and it happens all over again. I don't have time for that.
As to your question about being with someone who is not your dual? For a long time....depends, on the person and circumstances. Besides all other countless factors like age, sex, lifestyle, etc...I think the most deciding factor are if the persons type is favorable.
Knowledge of duality doesn't effect who I want to date...socionics just helps me understand and respect the reasons why a person does what they do, as for how I react to them...I could use this information to my advantage, but I really just let everything happen naturally and take its course.
Last edited by Leader; 06-02-2012 at 12:54 AM.
I can fuck people regardless of their type but I attract and am attracted to a lot ofpeople. And I tend to date Fe creatives.
It's because you are a romanticist and most ESTjs tend to fail to meet those standards?
Umm, I think conflictor sex is something everyone should try.
Who are you and what are you doing on Agee's account?
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
One thing that is wrong with socionics is that it judges. Why not describe how the relations will be without deciding which is "the best relations", "the worst relations", "okay relations", "horrible relations", etc. I think what one person thinks is horrible relations, another will think is just grand. That being said, most of the people I would choose to be in relationships with are probably not my dual. Relationships are much more complicated than socionics explains, and there are many factors other than what socionics describes that will make or break a relationship, such as meeting one another's needs. That said, I think there are many types that can meet mine, and I think the relations described in socionics, while pertinent to some extent, honestly will not make or break the relationship or cause one to love more or less. I think love is random, at least it is for me, and I can't determine when, how, or who it will happen with, at least not up to now. No, I would not use socionics to decide who to date, although I would pay attention to it to learn how to better communicate and resolve conflict. Relations cannot determine attraction or feelings of love, and that's what I am looking for......Loving feelings will hold relationships together that would otherwise fail, and that's one thing that is mandatory in my book for a successful relationship.
First of all, It's you who chooses whether to judge or not to. You seem to have chosen not to. Secondly, you cannot make a model that covers everything about relationships. However, you can take a lot of important factors and explanations in to the equation that covers enough to explain why the relationship works the way it works.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Feelings of love will always come and go - in any relationship. In a non-dual relationship you are much more dependent on emotions. In a dual relationship emotions will also disappear at some point, at least temporarily, but then you still have the deep dual connection, and you can continue being together. Then when emotions come back you are still there for each other.
I think this is what true love is about. You cannot depend on emotions alone, there has to be something more stable.
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