EXTENDED HOTELAMBUSH QUESTIONNAIRE - Desperate to know my type - hopeless case - every kind of help is welcome

[Adam Strange]

ESI-Fi is stereotypically the least aggressive Se ego, sure. The most aggressive xSI would be LSI-Se. Again stereotypically

That has been my experience, too. LSI-Se > ESI-Se > LSI-Ti > ESI-Fi. Just from interacting with them.

[hullothere]

@hullothere

Fe valuer. Fe HA?

"The other friend of mine is complementary to me, emotionally. I’m very internally intensive, but don’t give off much of it, she’s very open and friendly; very expressive."

"A friend: someone who is intelligent, who can get me, with whom I can have fruitful conversations. Someone who won’t hurt me: who is able to dissect his own personality and emotions (and talk about it). Someone with whom I can be fully honest and who isn’t offended easily. Someone interested in arts and science. People who aren’t obnoxious and think a lot.
I have a habit to fall for artistic creatures, who like to pose and emotionally manipulate, very charming. Again: intelligent people. Intelligence gets me going (sexually and romantically). An emotional, poetical pose – that’s very sexy. Emotions boiling and hitting you instantly. They are also artistically ACTIVE – some writing, some acting… you know. A bit of sense of humour is al For long-term relationship, I look for somebody, who is calm, negotiating, conciliatory BUT decisive – because I’m not. Someone who is empathetic, friendly and understanding but not oversensitive and ticklish, paradoxically, not manipulative emotionally in any way; mature, grounded. Who has imagination and can stimulate me intellectually;philosophical. Initiative,active. Well-read. Quiet and thoughtful."


"head in the clouds"

ILE? Video certainly wasn't against it (or against Ne lead anyway).

"Chaotic, living wholeness. Wholeness needing some help and direction."

Even more Ne lead.


"5. I am varying between two types: one seems fine looking at functions order, the other one is more of a gut feeling basing on stereotypes, but I’ll probably get something incredibly different here."

What are those two types?

Thanks for your input!
well, it does look like I definitely look for fe in potential partners
(but then - this fe-opposing thing, I dunno )
fi polr? do you think so?
wouldn't ILEs also be orgnised, or, at least, somehow grounded in they behaviour because of te demonstrative?
What was indicatig ne in my video?
that's funny, because that one test basing on works of arts (somewhere internet) gives me an ILE answer every possible time, yet I never considered that because of fi.
functions order: EII-Ne (supposing I'm not a fe user and not valuing se in any way, it is perfect) gut feeling: IEI-Ni (basing mainly on descriptions - they are much more likely considering my everyday behaviour, delta quadra description sounds for me better than beta tho)

[Kernel]

Why don't you try to type people around you and use the intertype relations theory?
It's very helpful.

[hullothere]

Why don't you try to type people around you and use the intertype relations theory?
It's very helpful.

The thing is, I don't feel that competent in the realm of socionics to type others. I've got many uncertain typing around me. For the people I'm rather sure about I can imagine differences and similarities resulting from many completely different intertype relations. But it certainly can narrow down my choice.

[Myst]

Thanks for your input!
well, it does look like I definitely look for fe in potential partners
(but then - this fe-opposing thing, I dunno )
fi polr? do you think so?
wouldn't ILEs also be orgnised, or, at least, somehow grounded in they behaviour because of te demonstrative?
What was indicatig ne in my video?
that's funny, because that one test basing on works of arts (somewhere internet) gives me an ILE answer every possible time, yet I never considered that because of fi.
functions order: EII-Ne (supposing I'm not a fe user and not valuing se in any way, it is perfect) gut feeling: IEI-Ni (basing mainly on descriptions - they are much more likely considering my everyday behaviour, delta quadra description sounds for me better than beta tho)

Np

ILEs aren't necessarily organized much. Let alone grounded lol

Video: you seemed a bit removed but extraverted anyway.

PS: not a final conclusion, just what came to mind based on what I've seen here from you.

[Myst]

2. Being annoyingly positive. Trying to cheer you up for the sake of it. I think it is egoistical – someone is crying and that kind of person is all like “ugh, he’s crying and making me upset, stop!”, so he/she tries to cheer up said crying person, motivations are really tricky here. I hate any kind of coaching or “you can do it!”, I find it annoying because it’s fake and naïve.

This bit is interesting, I don't see it as “ugh, he’s crying and making me upset, stop!”, for me it's just about being focused on the other person's well-being (in terms of their mood, I guess).


Apart from this, reading bits of your questionnaire more closely, you could actually be NF type.

Sorry for not clearing up the confusion any more


Mind elaborating on this bit? "The other friend of mine is complementary to me, emotionally. I’m very internally intensive, but don’t give off much of it, she’s very open and friendly; very expressive."

Why is this complementary to you emotionally?

[hullothere]

This bit is interesting, I don't see it as “ugh, he’s crying and making me upset, stop!”, for me it's just about being focused on the other person's well-being (in terms of their mood, I guess).


Apart from this, reading bits of your questionnaire more closely, you could actually be NF type.

Sorry for not clearing up the confusion any more


Mind elaborating on this bit? "The other friend of mine is complementary to me, emotionally. I’m very internally intensive, but don’t give off much of it, she’s very open and friendly; very expressive."

Why is this complementary to you emotionally?

You probably happened to see my post in the other thread - don't worry, I was joking Every answer brings me intuitively closer to "THE ANSWER" - I can feel it!

Every time I encounter this type of behaviour, I feel like my problems are being belittled in favour of group "fun". I think it is effective only shortterm; after such interaction, you have to brood a lot in the silence of your room instead That's why we are taught this type of managing emotions of others' - it gets instant results and promotes physical well-being for a moment, but brings damage in long term. I find "only" listening to someone's problem attentively a harder work, you have to put a lot of effort and dedication into it, try to understand other person's perspective, shut down your own emotions for some time, longer time in this case - that's why I prefer this type of help. It is all about motivations. And it also helps to fix things deeply - when you know the other person is there for you, you can start your quest with beating the problem.

I believe (and she read the descriptions - she might be an IEE tho) that she's an ESE. She's all about Fe (but she is also a well-developed ESE - so you don't get mentioned behaviour). When I keep my thoughts to myself - she is often able to get them out of me, try to break into my inner turmoil which is what I often need, because I don't see a point in opening up to everyone around without a point in general, which is what every human being needs. She knows she can rant me every time she need - I will help her tone down, listen carefully, asses everythig she says and generally lend a patient ear. She always initiates contact (also physical), is very "here and now" in her emotions and showing care, whereas I'm more of a distant long-term planner. While she is motherly, I'm more of a dad sitting in the armchair, reading a newspaper, but observing kids carefully from a distance. She's more of a cheerful person, I tend to brood. She's generally enjoying life, I'm trying to prepare for life. I value higher close relationships and aim to deepen them, she also values that, but I think she's more comfortable managing group. She's agreable (to a fault, as she thinks, and agreeing on others' opinions), loves peace, whereas I am very stubborn and uncompromising, readily start quarrels, have strong opinions (and because of her calm nature we get none of them). I'm also sure she'll read that without a permission and comment readily on every part of that (which is some hardcore sort of care and I adore that ), whereas I would in that situation stalk it silently from afar and collect important hues about her, asking additional questions about parts, without a comment

[Myst]

You probably happened to see my post in the other thread - don't worry, I was joking Every answer brings me intuitively closer to "THE ANSWER" - I can feel it!

Lol yeah I saw it. Anyway reading your answer here - EIE seems right for you. The difference in handling that situation of the person's well-being, it's a Si vs Ni difference. In general you seem to have a focus on the long term with a direction/purpose (Ni), too.

Let me know if you need any more clarification of this, also if anything major doesn't seem to match the EIE typing for you.

[hullothere]

Lol yeah I saw it. Anyway reading your answer here - EIE seems right for you. The difference in handling that situation of the person's well-being, it's a Si vs Ni difference. In general you seem to have a focus on the long term with a direction/purpose (Ni), too.

That would be right - I am not a si lover... as well as not a se fan. What strikes me in EIE is a strpng emphasis on using se. This looks like some sterotyping, but I'm not exactly sure. How would a se polr and si polr/or: weak se valuer or si valuer behave, considering that both of these IMs are very
weak? Also I'm curious if your EIE typing was more because of detected ne, extraverted presence/vibe or being a rational?

[Myst]

That would be right - I am not a si lover... as well as not a se fan. What strikes me in EIE is a strpng emphasis on using se. This looks like some sterotyping, but I'm not exactly sure. How would a se polr and si polr/or: weak se valuer or si valuer behave, considering that both of these IMs are very
weak? Also I'm curious if your EIE typing was more because of detected ne, extraverted presence/vibe or being a rational?

Se in you that fits EIE alright: "She's agreable (to a fault, as she thinks, and agreeing on others' opinions), loves peace, whereas I am very stubborn and uncompromising, readily start quarrels, have strong opinions (and because of her calm nature we get none of them)."

Se PoLR would not really be into starting quarrels. Si PoLR fits what you said above, really attaching no value to the in-the-moment well-being of people, in favour of longer term considerations.

EIE typing because I see NF, a lot of Ne, yes, and the Si PoLR with your preference of Ni over Si in the above post (#47) of yours (and in a few other bits from earlier).

[hullothere]

Se in you that fits EIE alright: "She's agreable (to a fault, as she thinks, and agreeing on others' opinions), loves peace, whereas I am very stubborn and uncompromising, readily start quarrels, have strong opinions (and because of her calm nature we get none of them)."

Se PoLR would not really be into starting quarrels. Si PoLR fits what you said above, really attaching no value to the in-the-moment well-being of people, in favour of longer term considerations.

That's very convincing,thanks

[User Name]

@hullothere

Being true to yourself; that’s the key. Despite doing some social acting on my own, trying to give out the best, maybe not truest, version of myself, I rely on what I believe is the essence of my character, and expect the same from others. I loathe myself after long periods of time when I put on a mask to impress anyone. I try not to hide anything, and to give sincerest answers, managing not to hurt anybody at the same time. Sincerity – another value of mine. The harshest truth is better than a white lie of best intent. Being a kid, I couldn’t lie, even tell something only half-true. When I acknowledged that it ends up with people being upset or feeling insulted, I tried to “blur” the truth in order to convey the meritum in the message and make it more bearable. Now I’m kind of indirect and blurry myself because of that, this makes many social treaties and overall communication tricky.

This is Fi Leading at its best. Being true to yourself, not hiding anything, giving sincere answers, telling the truth. Everything points at a very strong (and valued) Fi. There is also evidence for Fe Ignoring: you don’t like to wear masks. A Fe valuing type, instead, would more likely wear one to preserve a good atmosphere.

I’m sluggish and disorganized, ending up doing irrelevant and unproductive stuff like social media. As for interests, there are many of them. I’m scattered. Lots of unrelated things, none of them perfected. It’s funny, when some geek sees that you know something about something, gets infatuated with perceived interest of both of you, then sees that’s only “something” and gets terribly disappointed with you (happened a few times; that’s a pattern). I love psychology (both reading about that, observing in action and making up own teories), philosophy (it feels like talking and debating and arguing with geniuses of one’s choice), science, poetry (abstract and ironic), art (mostly modern and/or/ conceptual) aaand… the list goes on! Part two: doing things. I like drawing from life (too unskilled to draw from imagination, but I’d love to!), I play the piano and the guitar, where I like fast, technically difficult and repetitive pieces (but I’ve taken some interest in improvisation lately), sometimes I write (stories never longer than a few pieces; I lack motivation; poems are quicker to write and are more accurate at expressing oneself’s ideas), I like sport, but I’m terrible at it. I love watching movies! Getting immersed in people’s stories and meanings of events, also the beauty of moving images. I… like? Reading books. I’ve got some serious problems with concentration, so it’s difficult for me to read, but when I actually read, I choose wisely. Something, which will help me grow as a person and understand something.

Here is the proof for Ne > Ni valuing. You’re scattered. “Lots of unrelated things, none of them perfected.” I don’t think that a Ni Leading type (IEI, ILI) is going to say this so easily. Ni focuses on depth of understanding, while Ne focuses on breadth. And, according to this principle, you show more Ne than Ni, by far. Just look at how broad your interests are…

I fear offices and figures of power, especially having to interact with them, I feel inferior. Insults and attacks are very hurtful, after a few remarks I can start crying, I am very responsive to moods, aggression and negative attitude and can’t stand long conflicts. I usually start conflicts myself and try to get a “higher” position than my interlocutor, otherwise I tear down emotionally. I hate attacks and aggression from other people; it scares me.

This screams Se PoLR. It’s one of my greatest problems as well. I don’t cry though. I just react as aggressively as possible. And it’s even worse. Typical INXj Se PoLR behavior.

From your questionnaire what is really evident is strong Fi/Ni and weak Te/Se. It’s very hard to tell whether you seek Te or Se, because you seem to seek both. But your Fi is just too strong to be in a Demonstrative position, come on. Also, your Ne is developed enough to be a Creative function, while your Fe isn’t. You avoid to use it, because you obviously prefer Fi. An IEI/EIE would never do that. In other words, Fi/Ne > Ni/Fe, Delta NF > Beta NF, EII > IEI.

[hullothere]

@hullothere

Being true to yourself; that’s the key. Despite doing some social acting on my own, trying to give out the best, maybe not truest, version of myself, I rely on what I believe is the essence of my character, and expect the same from others. I loathe myself after long periods of time when I put on a mask to impress anyone. I try not to hide anything, and to give sincerest answers, managing not to hurt anybody at the same time. Sincerity – another value of mine. The harshest truth is better than a white lie of best intent. Being a kid, I couldn’t lie, even tell something only half-true. When I acknowledged that it ends up with people being upset or feeling insulted, I tried to “blur” the truth in order to convey the meritum in the message and make it more bearable. Now I’m kind of indirect and blurry myself because of that, this makes many social treaties and overall communication tricky.

This is Fi Leading at its best. Being true to yourself, not hiding anything, giving sincere answers, telling the truth. Everything points at a very strong (and valued) Fi. There is also evidence for Fe Ignoring: you don’t like to wear masks. A Fe valuing type, instead, would more likely wear one to preserve a good atmosphere.

Some might argue that this is Fe-leading, oh my, that's where I'm lost

[hullothere]

@hullothere
This screams Se PoLR. It’s one of my greatest problems as well. I don’t cry though. I just react as aggressively as possible. And it’s even worse. Typical INXj Se PoLR behavior.

From your questionnaire what is really evident is strong Fi/Ni and weak Te/Se. It’s very hard to tell whether you seek Te or Se, because you seem to seek both. But your Fi is just too strong to be in a Demonstrative position, come on. Also, your Ne is developed enough to be a Creative function, while your Fe isn’t. You avoid to use it, because you obviously prefer Fi. An IEI/EIE would never do that. In other words, Fi/Ne > Ni/Fe, Delta NF > Beta NF, EII > IEI.

Thank you for this elaboration, prospective brother in Se PoLR! I'm closer now to the thought of being EII

[Myst]

Lol confusion time again I guess

These observations of mine vs the observations of @User Name do conflict on the surface for sure. I'll add a few comments on that below.

"Being true to yourself; that’s the key. Despite doing some social acting on my own, trying to give out the best, maybe not truest, version of myself, I rely on what I believe is the essence of my character, and expect the same from others. I loathe myself after long periods of time when I put on a mask to impress anyone. I try not to hide anything, and to give sincerest answers, managing not to hurt anybody at the same time. Sincerity – another value of mine. The harshest truth is better than a white lie of best intent. Being a kid, I couldn’t lie, even tell something only half-true. When I acknowledged that it ends up with people being upset or feeling insulted, I tried to “blur” the truth in order to convey the meritum in the message and make it more bearable. Now I’m kind of indirect and blurry myself because of that, this makes many social treaties and overall communication tricky."

This is Fi Leading at its best. Being true to yourself, not hiding anything, giving sincere answers, telling the truth. Everything points at a very strong (and valued) Fi. There is also evidence for Fe Ignoring: you don’t like to wear masks. A Fe valuing type, instead, would more likely wear one to preserve a good atmosphere.

According to this bit, OP actually does wear some masks and does some social acting. I'm not entirely sure how EIEs approach this topic of best vs truest versions, with their belief in expressing sincere emotions (that Fe DS does seek, that is, sincere emotionality). Maybe EIEs like @GuavaDrunk or @golden or @darya could elaborate on this issue.

OP did manage to acknowledge the emotional reactions of other people and changed her expressions accordingly, so I don't really necessarily see this as Fe ignoring.

"I’m sluggish and disorganized, ending up doing irrelevant and unproductive stuff like social media. As for interests, there are many of them. I’m scattered. Lots of unrelated things, none of them perfected. It’s funny, when some geek sees that you know something about something, gets infatuated with perceived interest of both of you, then sees that’s only “something” and gets terribly disappointed with you (happened a few times; that’s a pattern). I love psychology (both reading about that, observing in action and making up own teories), philosophy (it feels like talking and debating and arguing with geniuses of one’s choice), science, poetry (abstract and ironic), art (mostly modern and/or/ conceptual) aaand… the list goes on! Part two: doing things. I like drawing from life (too unskilled to draw from imagination, but I’d love to!), I play the piano and the guitar, where I like fast, technically difficult and repetitive pieces (but I’ve taken some interest in improvisation lately), sometimes I write (stories never longer than a few pieces; I lack motivation; poems are quicker to write and are more accurate at expressing oneself’s ideas), I like sport, but I’m terrible at it. I love watching movies! Getting immersed in people’s stories and meanings of events, also the beauty of moving images. I… like? Reading books. I’ve got some serious problems with concentration, so it’s difficult for me to read, but when I actually read, I choose wisely. Something, which will help me grow as a person and understand something."

Here is the proof for Ne > Ni valuing. You’re scattered. “Lots of unrelated things, none of them perfected.” I don’t think that a Ni Leading type (IEI, ILI) is going to say this so easily. Ni focuses on depth of understanding, while Ne focuses on breadth. And, according to this principle, you show more Ne than Ni, by far. Just look at how broad your interests are…

EIEs can be plenty scattered with Ne demo. Good point on how it makes Ni lead less likely though certainly Ni leads can be disorganized etc just fine.

"I fear offices and figures of power, especially having to interact with them, I feel inferior. Insults and attacks are very hurtful, after a few remarks I can start crying, I am very responsive to moods, aggression and negative attitude and can’t stand long conflicts. I usually start conflicts myself and try to get a “higher” position than my interlocutor, otherwise I tear down emotionally. I hate attacks and aggression from other people; it scares me."

This screams Se PoLR. It’s one of my greatest problems as well. I don’t cry though. I just react as aggressively as possible. And it’s even worse. Typical INXj Se PoLR behavior.

The first sentence made me think of this bit about EIE vs LSI in this fun article (1st post of thread), quoting:

"And thus, on your horizon, somewhere in managerial chair or in colonel's form, on outline of an LSI has appeared. The LSI will himself identify you as an EIE - by the look of fear in your eyes. Since you carefully hide the fact that you are afraid of every person who is above you in their position, who is stronger than you ... Rejoice - because the LSI suspects nothing of it! And you, the Proud EIE, you don't openly show your fears. So, now the LSI squints his eyes and proceeds to meticulously study you. The next move is after you, which you will instinctively undertake anyways, because you are EIE after all. In the mean time, under LSI's scrupulous gaze, you will try to somehow straighten out your posture. You aren't sure of your looks, and whether what you are wearing corresponds to what you think of yourself. And don't be certain. LSIs don't like people who are too sure. In everything, ISTjs will convince you themselves and dispel your doubts."

This bit isn't a real argument but I found the similarity funny : p


Then, I've known beta NF that also hates a lot of arguments (she self-types as IEI though EIE was always a strong option too). She said she can't be truly angry without having tears with it as well At the same time she does have a kind of toughness and will do conflict if she sees it as necessary. So for her that's what it depends on whether she can engage in attacks/conflict. I don't know what it depends on for OP because she clearly mentions she will start conflicts and be argumentative.

From your questionnaire what is really evident is strong Fi/Ni and weak Te/Se. It’s very hard to tell whether you seek Te or Se, because you seem to seek both. But your Fi is just too strong to be in a Demonstrative position, come on. Also, your Ne is developed enough to be a Creative function, while your Fe isn’t. You avoid to use it, because you obviously prefer Fi. An IEI/EIE would never do that. In other words, Fi/Ne > Ni/Fe, Delta NF > Beta NF, EII > IEI.

NF is pretty clear overall, yeah, even though OP seems to have a certain interest in Ti. Which to me again would mean beta NF.


Anyway, I don't know if this helped, OP can weigh all these points and do a more refined analysis on what the behaviours depend on, since that's what shows the way of thinking, which is what type is about.

[Myst]

Some might argue that this is Fe-leading, oh my, that's where I'm lost

Yeah, as I said, Fe leading cares about sincerity of expressed emotions.

The difference with Fi vs Fe is that Fe focuses on dynamic emotional states and Fi just focuses on how they personally relate to things, it's not dynamic emotionality. I don't know if this made sense, let me know.


PS: your emotional expressions on the forum so far do also sound like Fe>Fi to me. Some Fe embellishments, sometimes with Ni theme added. But just my impression.

[hullothere]

Yeah, as I said, Fe leading cares about sincerity of expressed emotions.

The difference with Fi vs Fe is that Fe focuses on dynamic emotional states and Fi just focuses on how they personally relate to things, it's not dynamic emotionality. I don't know if this made sense, let me know.


PS: your emotional expressions on the forum so far do also sound like Fe>Fi to me. Some Fe embellishments, sometimes with Ni theme added. But just my impression.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense; my focus is rather of Fi focus. I show emotions when I see that they are needed socially and in line with what I am expected to show/ when my feelings are consistent and situation won't change. What I imagine you mean is, taking an example: Fe-behaviour would be saying "I love you" on the first date, because there's a sunster, this lovely person, and feeling of the moment, and they might say "I hate you" in some fight, but both of the situations might change very quickly and they may say the opposite, where Fi would be saying "I love you" as some sort of forming, "upgrading" existing bonds, and they won't say "I hate you" in the heat of the moment, even if the emotion is true, because they overall "love" the person.
I definitely see myself expressing Fe very often. Example: this forum texting is more like that. What I see in myself, is I do lots of Fe behaviour very often, but it is in very much less grandiose skale. Also: I find it fun. Example: this part of description about teasing and mocking others, making dramatic entrances, and so on; very Dalinic in the Salvador Dali sense of behaving. But he's comfortable in this masquerade; I find Fi not adding spice to life, but comfortable, something like going home from a party or vacations. Still, just guessing as for IMs from my part, because I think my understanding of them might be wrong.

[hullothere]

"And thus, on your horizon, somewhere in managerial chair or in colonel's form, on outline of an LSI has appeared. The LSI will himself identify you as an EIE - by the look of fear in your eyes. Since you carefully hide the fact that you are afraid of every person who is above you in their position, who is stronger than you ... Rejoice - because the LSI suspects nothing of it! And you, the Proud EIE, you don't openly show your fears. So, now the LSI squints his eyes and proceeds to meticulously study you. The next move is after you, which you will instinctively undertake anyways, because you are EIE after all. In the mean time, under LSI's scrupulous gaze, you will try to somehow straighten out your posture. You aren't sure of your looks, and whether what you are wearing corresponds to what you think of yourself. And don't be certain. LSIs don't like people who are too sure. In everything, ISTjs will convince you themselves and dispel your doubts."

Delightful bit. "Me and my office adventures. A novel."

[User Name]

@Myst: Fair points.

I'm still not convinced that she's an EIE because I see her Introvert and absolutely not Fi Ignoring. Also, she appears more Delta than Beta to me (even though Quadras are not the best way to type someone.

[Myst]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense; my focus is rather of Fi focus. I show emotions when I see that they are needed socially and in line with what I am expected to show/ when my feelings are consistent and situation won't change. What I imagine you mean is, taking an example: Fe-behaviour would be saying "I love you" on the first date, because there's a sunster, this lovely person, and feeling of the moment, and they might say "I hate you" in some fight, but both of the situations might change very quickly and they may say the opposite, where Fi would be saying "I love you" as some sort of forming, "upgrading" existing bonds, and they won't say "I hate you" in the heat of the moment, even if the emotion is true, because they overall "love" the person.

That's actually way more typical of Fi creative types, to "creatively" change their personal evaluations towards a thing/person. Fe base doesn't really start with saying "I love you" on the first date because I guess, emotionally it's not right to first say "love you" and then change that very quickly to the opposite judgment without any significant Ethical reason for it. Also it would require revealing their own personal feelings quite too fast. I don't know how I can explain this better because I'm not very good at understanding Fe, I just have observations on it. Any Fe base type (summoned people or other people) on this forum is welcome to refine this. But let me know if this made any sense at all.

By dynamic emotionality I meant the emotional flow that Fe pays attention to. Fi is more like "I feel like this just because", from my Ti pov anyway.

I show emotions when I see that they are needed socially and in line with what I am expected to show/ when my feelings are consistent and situation won't change.

What if you feel differently about the situation than what you are expected to show?

I definitely see myself expressing Fe very often. Example: this forum texting is more like that. What I see in myself, is I do lots of Fe behaviour very often, but it is in very much less grandiose skale. Also: I find it fun. Example: this part of description about teasing and mocking others, making dramatic entrances, and so on; very Dalinic in the Salvador Dali sense of behaving. But he's comfortable in this masquerade; I find Fi not adding spice to life, but comfortable, something like going home from a party or vacations. Still, just guessing as for IMs from my part, because I think my understanding of them might be wrong.

I'm not sure I followed the idea on Fi being comfortable like that. If you can say more on what that feels like or more on the impression you had, feel free to.

[hullothere]

Searching for self always gives confusion, so I'm not worried at all.
I will start a conflict when I see the other person making an argument based on wrong facts/not facts at all or not backing it up any reasoning, passing biased or just misleading information. I will also start a conflict when I feel treated unfairly (or anybody treated unfairly/ mocked/ left out). When somebody expresses an opinion (again, not backing it with any reasoning) and I find this opinion... well, rubbish. When somebody attacks me; I will usually fight back. With tears in my eyes and trembling voice When I see some injustice. When I see something is done poorly or someone doesn't do what is expected to do/ does it wrong because of laziness or unwillingness (I will feel sorry for someone not being able to do something properly). Usually stuff like that. These "quarrels" of mine usually aren't shouting; rather being argumentative, mocking, choosing words wisely as some pins and attacking that person quietly and persistently. Some emotional venom and cold looks disapproving of that person.
When I talk about "expressing myself", I talk rather about interests and personality, rather than emotion. I can suppress emotions for quite a long time. What I recently acknowledged about myself, thinking about type: when there is some social interaction with complete stranger, and I try to make myself accomodating to said person, I go into the "atmosphere" of the conversation, I can even not listen (and miss much more from the informations conveyed), but answer automatically with some great dose of emotions I cant even feel (because I wasn't able to listen deeply), and I see myself doing that from a distance and I am myself surprised. I much more prefer listening closely to the tone of the speaker and WHAT he says, but I don't give off any reactions there. I think I quite elaborated on how I feel on wearing masks in the other post, but in sum: find it fun for short periods of time, then feel extremely tired and detest myself for doing that, the feelings aren't super because I'm not that easily affected by others, I hyperbolise expreinced emotions so as to receive as strong in volume reactions from others and keep myself going socially, but much more prefer not afishing with my feelings. keeping it close in myself, and sharing in comfortable doses, this kind of interaction is peaceful for me and preferable, satisfying for the most part, but after some (quite long) time I feel bored and urge some emotional thrill

[hullothere]

Wow, you're too quick for me with your responses, sorry

[Myst]

@Myst: Fair points.

I'm still not convinced that she's an EIE because I see her Introvert and absolutely not Fi Ignoring. Also, she appears more Delta than Beta to me (even though Quadras are not the best way to type someone.

Delta without valuing that Si approach would be hard for me to see for her.

I didn't see Fi either yet, so I guess we use different interpretations. Mine is based on this: www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Fi The Aushra definition, the first Fi base description at the link, and the Golihov descriptions mainly.

And for Fe same sources: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Fe

[darya]

Lol confusion time again I guess

These observations of mine vs the observations of @User Name do conflict on the surface for sure. I'll add a few comments on that below.




According to this bit, OP actually does wear some masks and does some social acting. I'm not entirely sure how EIEs approach this topic of best vs truest versions, with their belief in expressing sincere emotions (that Fe DS does seek, that is, sincere emotionality). Maybe EIEs like @GuavaDrunk or @golden or @darya could elaborate on this issue.

OP did manage to acknowledge the emotional reactions of other people and changed her expressions accordingly, so I don't really necessarily see this as Fe ignoring.




EIEs can be plenty scattered with Ne demo. Good point on how it makes Ni lead less likely though certainly Ni leads can be disorganized etc just fine.




The first sentence made me think of this bit about EIE vs LSI in this fun article (1st post of thread), quoting:

"And thus, on your horizon, somewhere in managerial chair or in colonel's form, on outline of an LSI has appeared. The LSI will himself identify you as an EIE - by the look of fear in your eyes. Since you carefully hide the fact that you are afraid of every person who is above you in their position, who is stronger than you ... Rejoice - because the LSI suspects nothing of it! And you, the Proud EIE, you don't openly show your fears. So, now the LSI squints his eyes and proceeds to meticulously study you. The next move is after you, which you will instinctively undertake anyways, because you are EIE after all. In the mean time, under LSI's scrupulous gaze, you will try to somehow straighten out your posture. You aren't sure of your looks, and whether what you are wearing corresponds to what you think of yourself. And don't be certain. LSIs don't like people who are too sure. In everything, ISTjs will convince you themselves and dispel your doubts."

This bit isn't a real argument but I found the similarity funny : p


Then, I've known beta NF that also hates a lot of arguments (she self-types as IEI though EIE was always a strong option too). She said she can't be truly angry without having tears with it as well At the same time she does have a kind of toughness and will do conflict if she sees it as necessary. So for her that's what it depends on whether she can engage in attacks/conflict. I don't know what it depends on for OP because she clearly mentions she will start conflicts and be argumentative.




NF is pretty clear overall, yeah, even though OP seems to have a certain interest in Ti. Which to me again would mean beta NF.


Anyway, I don't know if this helped, OP can weigh all these points and do a more refined analysis on what the behaviours depend on, since that's what shows the way of thinking, which is what type is about.

Yeah, Fe leads generally do believe in honest emotional expression, but only when that's in their best interest and appropriate to situation. Sometimes it's good to be harsh, because that's how you secure your position or put someone in his place. Among friends and people you're open with, ofc you're going to be honest -there you can be yourself and let your guard down. But otherwise, it's not always wise or appropriate to be too sincere. In fact, sometimes you need to exaggerate or even fake your emotions in either way (pos or neg), if you're trying to convey smthng, persuade someone, hide or gain something . That is always more important from being sincere, sincerity is a very flexible thing ; ) If you put a lot of emotion into something, it becomes true in a way - even in your own mind.

I agree that most (there are some crazy exceptions) Beta NF's don't like agressively arguing just for the sake of it and prefer being polite/diplomatic with people. However, most will bite if necessary and have a certain edge about them.

About scatterness, IEI, EIE and especially IEE can all be scattered, EII's less so - but EII's can also procrastinate and not amount to much.

OP's questionnaire does have parts of Fi and Fe valuing, but overall, I get a Fi valuing impression and she also seems IJ temperament/not Fe ego in her video imo.

Edit: Beta NF's like to passionately debate about things, which isn't the same as agressively and tactlessly arguing or being offensive just for the sake of it. They will sarcastically jab and joke with a person, but most are highly empathetic and not into being agressive or hurting people for pleasure.

[Myst]

Searching for self always gives confusion, so I'm not worried at all.

OK, I was jk anyway

I will start a conflict when I see the other person making an argument based on wrong facts/not facts at all or not backing it up any reasoning, passing biased or just misleading information. I will also start a conflict when I feel treated unfairly (or anybody treated unfairly/ mocked/ left out). When somebody expresses an opinion (again, not backing it with any reasoning) and I find this opinion... well, rubbish. When somebody attacks me; I will usually fight back. With tears in my eyes and trembling voice When I see some injustice. When I see something is done poorly or someone doesn't do what is expected to do/ does it wrong because of laziness or unwillingness (I will feel sorry for someone not being able to do something properly). Usually stuff like that. These "quarrels" of mine usually aren't shouting; rather being argumentative, mocking, choosing words wisely as some pins and attacking that person quietly and persistently. Some emotional venom and cold looks disapproving of that person.

Yeah, this seems like pretty "standard" stuff for conflicts/arguments. You don't sound too afraid of all of it.

When I talk about "expressing myself", I talk rather about interests and personality, rather than emotion. I can suppress emotions for quite a long time. What I recently acknowledged about myself, thinking about type: when there is some social interaction with complete stranger, and I try to make myself accomodating to said person, I go into the "atmosphere" of the conversation, I can even not listen (and miss much more from the informations conveyed), but answer automatically with some great dose of emotions I cant even feel (because I wasn't able to listen deeply), and I see myself doing that from a distance and I am myself surprised. I much more prefer listening closely to the tone of the speaker and WHAT he says, but I don't give off any reactions there. I think I quite elaborated on how I feel on wearing masks in the other post, but in sum: find it fun for short periods of time, then feel extremely tired and detest myself for doing that, the feelings aren't super because I'm not that easily affected by others, I hyperbolise expreinced emotions so as to receive as strong in volume reactions from others and keep myself going socially, but much more prefer not afishing with my feelings. keeping it close in myself, and sharing in comfortable doses, this kind of interaction is peaceful for me and preferable, satisfying for the most part, but after some (quite long) time I feel bored and urge some emotional thrill

Sounds like at least somewhat conscious Fe (bolded those parts). I don't know what's with the deemphasizing of frequency for it - almost like "mimicking" with it how IEI is, but still with some very low Si (that really seemed like PoLR to me as I said) and quite high Ne that fits EIE more. Or an ILE with "NF flavour" if there's such a thing I don't really see other options, you don't have much focus on Fi to be Fi ego or I did not see it at all so far.

("Mimicking": I don't mean that you are trying to come off as IEI.)


One bit that took my interest: "I much more prefer listening closely to the tone of the speaker and WHAT he says" - what is this "WHAT", what sort of stuff?


Other than that, I don't think I can give much more input unless you have specific questions on stuff.

[User Name]

@hullothere: I know it might be misleading but, what's the type that you get more often in tests?

[hullothere]

I must think over all this stuff and will answer soon

[hullothere]

@hullothere: I know it might be misleading but, what's the type that you get more often in tests?

I did many tests and they differed a lot. Those with reinin dichotomies and IM EIE mostly, sometimes EII and LSE once. That strange exeriment with choosing pictures: always LIE. Thar test which sorts me INF first, then gives quadra and subtype: always EIIwith strong Ne subtype. Standard unreliable dychotomies which give a fpur letter type based on behaviours, same like in mbti, infp mostly, intp sometimes

[Myst]

Yeah, Fe leads generally do believe in honest emotional expression, but only when that's in their best interest and appropriate to situation. Sometimes it's good to be harsh, because that's how you secure your position or put someone in his place. Among friends and people you're open with, ofc you're going to be honest -there you can be yourself and let your guard down. But otherwise, it's not always wise or appropriate to be too sincere. In fact, sometimes you need to exaggerate or even fake your emotions in either way (pos or neg), if you're trying to convey smthng, persuade someone, hide or gain something . That is always more important from being sincere, sincerity is a very flexible thing ; ) If you put a lot of emotion into something, it becomes true in a way - even in your own mind.

I agree that most (there are some crazy exceptions) Beta NF's don't like agressively arguing just for the sake of it and prefer being polite/diplomatic with people. However, most will bite if necessary and have a certain edge about them.

I guess that's an interesting seemingly contradictory issue about appropriateness vs sincerity of expression with Fe.

About putting a lot of emotion into something. To me it only becomes true if it stays with consistency (stays or comes back consistently). If not then it was just a short whim/impulse. I don't know what it depends on whether it comes back consistently, feelings do seem to have their own logic regarding this though

About scatterness, IEI, EIE and especially IEE can all be scattered, EII's less so - but EII's can also procrastinate and not amount to much.

OP's questionnaire does have parts of Fi and Fe valuing, but overall, I get a Fi valuing impression and she also seems IJ temperament/not Fe ego in her video imo.

Let me add on this, I don't see Fi valuing at all because OP always talks about things as if they were "outside" in a sense. Lacking the full personal relation to it (sorry hard to put this into words better atm). Not that certain flavour of very personal deep thing that I only see from EIIs.

Edit: Beta NF's like to passionately debate about things, which isn't the same as agressively and tactlessly arguing or being offensive just for the sake of it. They will sarcastically jab and joke with a person, but most are highly empathetic and not into being agressive or hurting people for pleasure.

Yeah seems to (superficially) fit OP's description of how she does conflict.

[User Name]

I did many tests and they differed a lot. Those with reinin dichotomies and IM EIE mostly, sometimes EII and LSE once. That strange exeriment with choosing pictures: always LIE. Thar test which sorts me INF first, then gives quadra and subtype: always EIIwith strong Ne subtype. Standard unreliable dychotomies which give a fpur letter type based on behaviours, same like in mbti, infp mostly, intp sometimes

Sociotype.com types you as EII-Ne... Not a coincidence, for sure.

[Myst]

Sociotype.com types you as EII-Ne... Not a coincidence, for sure.

"For sure"? That's a bit strong...

Why not remain objective and consider the other test results too?

Tbh, I kinda find going by these tests pointless anyway Too many different results. But if considering them, why pick only one and call that meaningful?

Thank you for your explanation! The thing is, I see a lot of fi in myself, the thing I didn't like in socionics' description is social, stiff etiquette and sense of feeling a martyr or a victim, I relate to its interest in creating and understanding human bonding, trying to find one's purpose. Emotionally, I think I am a bit tied to fe, my emotions are not static, they are changing rapidly and I am very responsive to circumstances - but it is all internal.

This bit is closest to IEI if we have to stick with NF types.

If we go back to (Fe valuer) NT types, how do you see Fe seeking for yourself?

I still think there is no way that you don't value Fe but where I said you devalue Si, it's possible it's just simply rejecting focus on it. You seemed critical of the Si approach of that friend, which is why I originally went for devalued Si instead of just weak Si with strong Ni "overpowering" it. I'd be final in my typing for you only if seeing both Ego functions clearly, though.

[User Name]

@Myst: That's by far the most reliable one among them. @hullothere have you taken the SOLTI-160?

[Myst]

@Myst: That's by far the most reliable one among them. @hullothere have you taken the SOLTI-160?

I don't find it any more reliable than any other test out there, it for example switches j/p far too often because it places too much weight on the dichotomies.

SOLTI-160 is the best test out there, tho', yeah.

[Myst]

@hullothere so let me be clear, the only options I didn't exclude for you are the alpha NTs and the beta NFs. The video in terms of VI shows more a focus on Ne than Ni, so that goes against IEI. Your intermittent focus on Fe makes EIE less likely as I already indicated, so maybe it's a good idea to consider alpha NT more closely (if the NF bits can be explained in terms of this... ), you could be Fe seeking anyway (first thing I noted in this thread was that possible Fe seeking bit).

If you want to answer the earlier questions, do go ahead when you got time etc, yeah.

[User Name]

"For sure"? That's a bit strong...

Why not remain objective and consider the other test results too?

Tbh, I kinda find going by these tests pointless anyway Too many different results. But if considering them, why pick only one and call that meaningful?

I think you're right, let's focus on serious things and be objective (I had a Te PoLR moment (there is a secret IEI in me )).

Actually, Alpha NT is not that far from the image I have of her. But I tend to think LII > ILE because of her Ij Temperament (she even defines herself "cold and rational"). We both agree on Ne valuing. The problem is, where's Ti Leading/Ti Creative?

[Myst]

I think you're right, let's focus on serious things and be objective (I had a Te PoLR moment (there is a secret IEI in me )).

Actually, Alpha NT is not that far from the image I have of her. But I tend to think LII > ILE because of her Ij Temperament (she even defines herself "cold and rational"). We both agree on Ne valuing. The problem is, where's Ti Leading/Ti Creative?

Yeah, LII is not to be excluded. She can say more on how she relates to Ti, I guess.

I won't be asking more questions for now though, lol.

[hullothere]

@Myst: That's by far the most reliable one among them. @hullothere have you taken the SOLTI-160?

Got an EIE... Textbook... Twice... Sorry

[hullothere]

Hiding from sneaky LIIs Funny: I've typed myself an INTP in the first encounter with MBTI and had an INXP problem, before I got to know socionics and this began to be more of a INFX problem.

[Myst]

Hiding from sneaky LIIs Funny: I've typed myself an INTP in the first encounter with MBTI and had an INXP problem, before I got to know socionics and this began to be more of a INFX problem.

Fake NT variant of EIE? Hmm.

What in Socionics made you go for NF>NT clearly as opposed to MBTI?

OK, that was one more question, sorry. : p

[User Name]

Fake NT variant of EIE? Hmm.

What in Socionics made you go for NF>NT clearly as opposed to MBTI?

OK, that was one more question, sorry. : p

Well, the fake NT variant is a possible EIE-Ni (Alpha NT subtype). I agree on NF>NT.