INXp, but not sure which

[Singu]

Jesus fuck at all the autistic circlejerking of this thread... LOL.

We don't know why senki's boyfriend acted in that way, other than the limited information being offered by senki. It's really useless to jump to some "Socionics related" conclusions and say it must be Fi or Fe valuing or whatever.

Squark is right in that this might have something to do with cultural reasons. In some cultures, it would be considered "polite" to offer to pay up for something, AND it would also be considered "polite" to deny that and say that it's fine. Either way, it requires quite a lot of social awareness since there's a lot of implied and indirect social cues that you'd need to aware of. Now we don't know if her boyfriend had these cultural expectations, or he was just trying to "look good". But I would think that if he only wanted to "look good", then he wouldn't have expected the others to stop him. He THOUGHT that others would stop him.

[Bertrand]

im 99% sure if senki's boyfriend is like some fob imigrant from a culture where that is normal she would have mentioned it (or more than likely never brought up the story to begin with, because it would have had a different ending where she explains how stuff works to him). hes probably some random white guy. implied in it being weird was that there was no reason for him to believe that that makes it anything other than distasteful

Now we don't know if her boyfriend had these cultural expectations, or he was just trying to "look good". But I would think that if he only wanted to "look good", then he wouldn't have expected the others to stop him. He THOUGHT that others would stop him.

I accept that in your world "looking good" is paying and "being good" is not having to pay, but that's precisely the point all along. the distinction in quadra is how actually paying is being good, whereas making a gesture to pay but not expecting to pay is merely looking good. I accept that people can invert these, in fact I think this is precisely how quadra differ. its why you're so fucking weird

[niffer]

As usual you’re more focused on a female’s boyfriend than on a female in a video. You trying to say something to us here?

This thread is about typing her, not her boyfriend.

[Singu]

As usual you’re more focused on a female’s boyfriend than on a female in a video. You trying to say something to us here?

This thread is about typing her, not her boyfriend.

Yeah because you can totally tell someone's entire personality from a 5 minute long video. This is not a criticism of senki, but more of criticism of Socionics.

Either way you're all just a bunch of clueless autistic nerdz.

[niffer]

It’s okay to be gay Singu. You can practice bending over during my absence.

[Sol]

It is true that he would never insult someone on purpose as a way to attack them, he only insulted people by mistake sometimes

LSE in anger may insult intentionally as anyone. As the means to be more clear with adding the emotions.
Mostly it's a sarcasm or mirroring of an opponent.
When Fi types are near or among friends, they give good example of being calm, restrained and polite even when the opponents behave like monkeys. Without such help LSE become worse.

[senki]

Yes, I think they're somewhat entertaining to watch. . .like real characters because there's this level of sincerity and outright clumsiness in expressing it that you don't get to see so often.

My ex also HATES celebrating holidays like Christmas with his family and is the most resistant human being I've ever seen when people are trying to draw him into 'fun and festivities' that he wants no part in. He actually said to me before that what they were doing was fake and the only reason they were acting like they loved each other so much was because it was Christmas. We had to go to his mother's house for Christmas feast every year and he was visibly crawling out of his skin the entire time. lol. Also hated having to buy gifts for people just because it was an arbitrary day. Very funny.

He also has a tendency to overexplain relationship dynamics to people when it's either inappropriate or unnecessary, 'just to be clear' lol. Like, he's apt to tell my current boyfriend that just because we're still friends, we're not in love with each other, we're terrible for each other, he'd never do it again, and it means nothing that we hang out.

[silke]

I'm getting a Ne-ego feel from the video so far. Potentially Ne-ILE. We've had so few ILE women on this forum, particularly of Ne-subtype, that in case that is your type @senki you're bound to be mistyped, just too few references to compare.

[Bertrand]

'just to be clear' lol. Like, he's apt to tell my current boyfriend that just because we're still friends, we're not in love with each other, we're terrible for each other, he'd never do it again, and it means nothing that we hang out.

lol thats really sweet in a dumb way he's helping!

I think we are actually using this thread now to type all of my ex partners

its the Fi

of course niffer is like "lol fags, try to stay on task"

[senki]

As usual you’re more focused on a female’s boyfriend than on a female in a video. You trying to say something to us here?

This thread is about typing her, not her boyfriend.

I think we are actually using this thread now to type all of my ex partners

[niffer]

I'm getting a Ne-ego feel from the video so far. Potentially Ne-ILE. We've had so few ILE women on this forum, particularly of Ne-subtype, that in case that is your type @senki you're bound to be mistyped, just too few references to compare.

I feel you suggesting this is your Ne suggestive :x

pun unintentioned

[The Reality Denialist]

I have what I think to be a LSE professor and he's hilarious because he randomly lets out flashes of seemingly random anger and is always looking at the clock (I didn't really understand the always running out of time stereotype until I saw this guy in action). I really do think he's going to have an aneurysm like you said. at the same time the anger is never directed at individuals, its just like residual anger that occasionally comes out in his speech. almost like he suffers from barely contained tourettes. it sounds weird but hes a great instructor despite all that and it doesn't make me uncomfortable. its almost refreshing because you kind of get a sense of where he really stands at all times

ESE who looks like that she is always running out of phone battery. Keeps it charged at 100 % all the time. You know that everything is going to be taken care of.

[silke]

I feel you suggesting this is your Ne suggestive :x

pun unintentioned

typing every newcomer into a semi-dual has been my secret ploy so far - it's almost like being dualizators, but gotta keep them off balance a lil

[Dee]

I think then Eie might be a fit. Forget Ip. You are too strong nervous system wise, imo. In psychology only Ip have weak n/s. You do have a bit of Eie look in you. Tell us, how much do you feel you resound with an Eie? Weak n/s means the subject enters temporary, disabling shock at strong impulse. You on the other hand imo would carry on.

[Dee]

typing every newcomer into a semi-dual has been my secret ploy so far - it's almost like being dualizators, but gotta keep them off balance a lil

Proof the typers here are shite, jk.

[silke]

Proof the typers here are shite, jk.

as are the typees, thinking they can just drop by a forum without any prior participation and gain insightful opinions about themselves, not jk btw

[Dee]

As the holographic universe folk say, it's all subjectif.

[Myst]

The relationship from my perspective largely consisted of him telling me to do stuff, usually with a sense of immediacy, when it was often something I felt could surely wait, and he was almost parental about it in that brow-beating way. Also, very focused on chores and the like. We are still friends, because we can enjoy each other's company as long as we're not around each other constantly. He still even calls me sometimes urging me to do shit, but it of course is more amusing now than extremely irritating because it's not a part of daily life.

Some things I really appreciate about him is that he is indeed a very loyal person and supportive in a practical way, definitely took care of me on an Si level when I was unwell, and arranged doctors appointments for me sometimes when we lived in his native country, so I really did value his care, even if sometimes he can get a little intense with his health suggestions and remedies, etc. A good example of this is that a couple months ago, I had some kind of bronchitis for which he suggested this herbal antibiotic that one needed to take like, 3 times a day, 5 pills at a time. It seemed a bit much to me, so I just decided to wait the infection out and let it resolve on it's own. He called me a number of times to ask if I had taken the medicine, and when I said no, seemed very irritated and bewildered by this and as much as his nagging was very annoying for me, I also still admire the fact that he has an extremely strong work ethic. We came here to Germany together and he spoke about A2-low B1 level German. He took a job working with electric cables in manholes, which was really shit work, and he had to deal with being berated and yelled at in a language he didn't feel all that competent speaking just yet. Now, he's been here 3 years, is completely fluent in German, and has worked his way up with a number of promotions within that same company. So, mad respect for that.

Mhm, okay, doesn't sound like you even value Si.

Regarding talking about things I'm involved with, I don't think that's the problem with the discussions with my friend that I described above. I of course speak to other friends about what's going on in my and their lives, but it tends to develop very organically, almost tangentially, whereas with the friend mentioned above, it feels formulaic and predictable/stiff to me. Furthermore, her reactions always seem only connected to the here and now and never shift to anything outside of that. . .she doesn't give personal anecdotes from the past, or really express her sentiments in any way. She's also kind of a Pollyanna and is, in my opinion, unjustifiably positive at all times, but that's a whole other matter.

Try IEI on

He also has a tendency to overexplain relationship dynamics to people when it's either inappropriate or unnecessary, 'just to be clear' lol. Like, he's apt to tell my current boyfriend that just because we're still friends, we're not in love with each other, we're terrible for each other, he'd never do it again, and it means nothing that we hang out.

That I actually can see as a good thing, if he wanted to prevent misunderstandings and jealousy...

[Singu]

Well see the problem is, you can attribute virtually ANYTHING to "Fi valuing" for example, and there would be no contradiction. You can say that "Fi is about being honest with your emotions" just as much as "Fi is about being dishonest with your emotions". This goes beyond simply being "subjective". There is no LOGICAL REASON why Fi should be about either being honest or dishonest, and there is no LOGICAL REASON (i.e. objective reason) why should one prefer one over the other. IT'S ALL BASED ON OBSERVATIONS, which by definition can't be contradicted, because there's no logic involved.

[senki]

That I actually can see as a good thing, if he wanted to prevent misunderstandings and jealousy...

Yes, it of course wasn't a bad thing or coming from a bad place at all, it was just an amusing, abrupt thing to say to my new partner at first meeting. Also, I guess it seemed kind of self explanatory to me that there would be nothing to worry about based on the relationship I have with my boyfriend and just the way my ex and I act around each other. . .somewhat contextual, I guess.

You're the second person to suggest maybe IEI, so I will still think about it. Thanks.

[Myst]

Yes, it of course wasn't a bad thing or coming from a bad place at all, it was just an amusing, abrupt thing to say to my new partner at first meeting. Also, I guess it seemed kind of self explanatory to me that there would be nothing to worry about based on the relationship I have with my boyfriend and just the way my ex and I act around each other. . .somewhat contextual, I guess.

You're the second person to suggest maybe IEI, so I will still think about it. Thanks.

First meeting, oh... I don't think I'd have said it that quickly if I were him. I wouldn't assume it's self-explanatory though.

And np!

[senki]

I think then Eie might be a fit. Forget Ip. You are too strong nervous system wise, imo. In psychology only Ip have weak n/s. You do have a bit of Eie look in you. Tell us, how much do you feel you resound with an Eie? Weak n/s means the subject enters temporary, disabling shock at strong impulse. You on the other hand imo would carry on.

I kind of see where you're coming from with this in regards to the more frenetic, less composed energy. Not really sure what's to be meant by a strong or weak nervous system, though I would describe mine as buzzing. The problem is, I just can't imagine that I would be Fe leading. I don't think I speak in a particularly lyrical or dramatic matter, and I also don't particularly care about including people or engaging people in activities, especially if I sense they want to just do their own thing. I mean, I hardly interact with people or initiate any sort of emotional expression with them. I do relate a bit to the Si Polr description, but also relate to it as role description.

[Myst]

I kind of see where you're coming from with this in regards to the more frenetic, less composed energy. Not really sure what's to be meant by a strong or weak nervous system, though I would describe mine as buzzing. The problem is, I just can't imagine that I would be Fe leading. I don't think I speak in a particularly lyrical or dramatic matter, and I also don't particularly care about including people or engaging people in activities, especially if I sense they want to just do their own thing. I mean, I hardly interact with people or initiate any sort of emotional expression with them. I do relate a bit to the Si Polr description, but also relate to it as role description.

I don't see you as emotionally intense in your video, don't see EIE. I don't think EIEs always speak in a lyrical way lol that's more IEI actually I think, I also don't find they try to include people in activities if they are the not very extraverted kind of EIE, just ambiverted. But overall they definitely are more emotionally intense than you in that video. There is this notion floating around on this forum that EIEs do not need to be emotionally intense (a few people who are most definitely not all that intense self-type as EIE here), but I decided after much observation and analysis of my experiences that it's part of duality for me as an LSI. Just my take, FWIW.

[Dee]

I also don't particularly care about including people or engaging people in activities, especially if I sense they want to just do their own thing.

You do SENSE what they WANT though. You sense their irrational desires, which could fall under F, I think. Just a hypothesis.

I mean, I hardly interact with people or initiate any sort of emotional expression with them.

Could this be to do with Fi limiting which is the case with EIEs? I mean could this be about limiting your engaging into relationships (Fi) with them, or in things that may lead into such?

[Myst]

Could this be to do with Fi limiting which is the case with EIEs? I mean could this be about limiting your engaging into relationships (Fi) with them, or in things that may lead into such?

No, Fi does not limit Fe in the case of EIEs. That only happens for introverts. If someone doesn't initiate emotional expressions/do emotional expressions much, they are by definition not EIE.

[senki]

You do SENSE what they WANT though. You sense their irrational desires, which could fall under F, I think. Just a hypothesis.

Yeah, it's a big reason why I had thought I was Fe creative for so long because I'm always feeling like I'm scanning the environment for how people feel. . .but then I thought about it, and I think I am usually more concerned with not just how they feel, but how they feel toward me.

I've also started to question whether or not my feeling functions are actually strong, as I think there's a certain degree of paranoia in their use, i.e. my sensitivity toward how certain people feel about me seems kind of hypersensitive and hair-trigger.

Some examples of this:
When I need to speak German to people I don't know very well. . .I can really become hypersensitive to their reactions to me (like their facial expressions, for instance), and I also become concerned with the fact that I may be boring them a great deal since I talk slow/can't have really deep conversations etc. But I don't even know if any of this really has to do with Fe/Fi, because in the end, I think in the end what I'm actually phobic about is whether or not they think I'm dumb or inept.

Other examples, which may be Fi related, have to do with romantic relationships. I think I'm really sensitive to what I perceive as withdraws of affection. I feel like I need some sense of reassurance that things are good between me and my romantic partner, but I am not AT ALL proactive in obtaining this kind of reassurance. If I feel someone is withdrawing affection, or not being engaged, I tend to mirror this and withdraw as well and just minimize my needs in response. This has gotten a lot better, but still happens to some degree.

When I was younger, I used to really read people's emotional signals in relationships, and could pinpoint the exact time at which their emotions started 'changing' particularly in a negative direction, and then I could obviously fortell how the course of events (which was of course always an unfavorable estimation) would develop. As a younger person, this is how I functioned. . .I scanned the environment for signs (emotional cues) about how someone felt about me. . .and then I would predict where the relationship was headed based solely on that and was always right. I actually mean all of this 'forseeing' quite literally because it definitely felt magical at the time in some way, like I had some kind of weird mystical power to do it.

However, as I got older and more mature, I really started to wonder how much my emotional reactions factored into the dissolution of many relationships. Perhaps if I'd actually spoken up and expressed myself and not closed myself off, or if I'd not given off such a vibe of insecurity, things would have developed differently. So I don't think so much anymore that what happened in my relationships has to do with my uncanny knack to read other people and thus the direction of relationships, but probably has more to do with what happens with the interplay between two people.

[The Reality Denialist]

When I was younger, I used to really read people's emotional signals in relationships, and could pinpoint the exact time at which their emotions started 'changing' particularly in a negative direction, and then I could obviously fortell how the course of events (which was of course always an unfavorable estimation) would develop. As a younger person, this is how I functioned. . .I scanned the environment for signs (emotional cues) about how someone felt about me. . .and then I would predict where the relationship was headed based solely on that and was always right. I actually mean all of this 'forseeing' quite literally because it definitely felt magical at the time in some way, like I had some kind of weird mystical power to do it.

Sounds bit like IEI.

[niffer]

Called it bitches!

[senki]

Yeah it really does seem IEI-ish to me which is why I went with that typing for a long time, but if I really think back, there is a lot of behavior I engaged in as a child that is no longer relevant to me that I wouldn't exactly describe as feeling type behavior lol. For instance, I used to have fist fights with other children and was really quite physically aggressive, especially for a girl. This wasn't because I felt angry or anything like that, I think it was a little more sadistic than that I grew up with 2 older brothers, and watched them fighting A LOT. Let's just say I can think of a number of times that I punched people in face between the ages of say 4 and 8 years old.

There were also times I used unnecessary force in other, more subtle ways. I remember one time particularly, that I had recently made a new female friend in a neighborhood to which my family had just moved. I had a stuffed bear named Stitchetta for whom I dreamed up many adventures. The new friend had a stuffed bunny, so we were playing with them in our imaginary world. Anyway, there was an above ground swimming pool in this girl's backyard, and for some reason, she took Stitchetta and dipped her feet ever so slightly in the water. This annoyed me for some reason, so I snatched her bunny from her and submerged the entire thing in the pool as if I were drowning her. The girl didn't want to be my friend anymore after that.

So, stuff like that can really throw me off.

[Bertrand]

i also think IEI doesn't feel railroaded by that presentiment, rather they are in control if they wish, and can manipulate or divert the course as desired (or at least genuinely believe they can, and have a good degree of success at this). feeling determined to some extent or fatalistic in that regard is more super ego

also that bunny story sounds extreme, but it sounds like you were saying in effect "that bothers me, see how you like to be bothered" it does seem like a form of Te response to a Fi injury rooted in some kind of Si context (the feet)

I dunno, maybe I'm grasping at straws here but this continues to make sense to me in that way

[niffer]

I’ve never punched a person in the face before in my life and I type as Se lead.

I don’t get thrown off by superfluous details, and neither should anybody else.

[niffer]

Or actually why not just stay hung up in them forever. Sounds like a good time to me.

[Myst]

Yeah, it's a big reason why I had thought I was Fe creative for so long because I'm always feeling like I'm scanning the environment for how people feel. . .but then I thought about it, and I think I am usually more concerned with not just how they feel, but how they feel toward me.

That's Fe. (The bolded.)

BTW when I said someone who's not emotionally expressive can't be EIE, I meant that in terms of it not being their habitual preference. Things out of the ordinary like severe depression can of course limit anyone's emotional expressions. Just forgot to clarify this.

I've also started to question whether or not my feeling functions are actually strong, as I think there's a certain degree of paranoia in their use, i.e. my sensitivity toward how certain people feel about me seems kind of hypersensitive and hair-trigger.

That doesn't have to mean weak Feeling, from this much

Some examples of this:
When I need to speak German to people I don't know very well. . .I can really become hypersensitive to their reactions to me (like their facial expressions, for instance), and I also become concerned with the fact that I may be boring them a great deal since I talk slow/can't have really deep conversations etc. But I don't even know if any of this really has to do with Fe/Fi, because in the end, I think in the end what I'm actually phobic about is whether or not they think I'm dumb or inept.

Hm ok that sounds like Feeling ego yes.

Other examples, which may be Fi related, have to do with romantic relationships. I think I'm really sensitive to what I perceive as withdraws of affection. I feel like I need some sense of reassurance that things are good between me and my romantic partner, but I am not AT ALL proactive in obtaining this kind of reassurance. If I feel someone is withdrawing affection, or not being engaged, I tend to mirror this and withdraw as well and just minimize my needs in response. This has gotten a lot better, but still happens to some degree.

When I was younger, I used to really read people's emotional signals in relationships, and could pinpoint the exact time at which their emotions started 'changing' particularly in a negative direction, and then I could obviously fortell how the course of events (which was of course always an unfavorable estimation) would develop. As a younger person, this is how I functioned. . .I scanned the environment for signs (emotional cues) about how someone felt about me. . .and then I would predict where the relationship was headed based solely on that and was always right. I actually mean all of this 'forseeing' quite literally because it definitely felt magical at the time in some way, like I had some kind of weird mystical power to do it.

However, as I got older and more mature, I really started to wonder how much my emotional reactions factored into the dissolution of many relationships. Perhaps if I'd actually spoken up and expressed myself and not closed myself off, or if I'd not given off such a vibe of insecurity, things would have developed differently. So I don't think so much anymore that what happened in my relationships has to do with my uncanny knack to read other people and thus the direction of relationships, but probably has more to do with what happens with the interplay between two people.

Look into attachment theory (psychology theory, but not too complex).

The predicting part based on emotional cues sounds beta NF but in any case it's definitely Fe + Ni information

[Myst]

Yeah it really does seem IEI-ish to me which is why I went with that typing for a long time, but if I really think back, there is a lot of behavior I engaged in as a child that is no longer relevant to me that I wouldn't exactly describe as feeling type behavior lol. For instance, I used to have fist fights with other children and was really quite physically aggressive, especially for a girl. This wasn't because I felt angry or anything like that, I think it was a little more sadistic than that I grew up with 2 older brothers, and watched them fighting A LOT. Let's just say I can think of a number of times that I punched people in face between the ages of say 4 and 8 years old.

There were also times I used unnecessary force in other, more subtle ways. I remember one time particularly, that I had recently made a new female friend in a neighborhood to which my family had just moved. I had a stuffed bear named Stitchetta for whom I dreamed up many adventures. The new friend had a stuffed bunny, so we were playing with them in our imaginary world. Anyway, there was an above ground swimming pool in this girl's backyard, and for some reason, she took Stitchetta and dipped her feet ever so slightly in the water. This annoyed me for some reason, so I snatched her bunny from her and submerged the entire thing in the pool as if I were drowning her. The girl didn't want to be my friend anymore after that.

So, stuff like that can really throw me off.

Isolated anecdotes (esp from childhood) don't really do much for typing. That is, if you only have these anecdotes of aggression it doesn't really say anything about Se's functional position for you (as far as Se is even about aggression per se) or about how you perceive tangible reality otherwise. Like you say you were playing imaginary stuff then there was one flash of aggression. If the former was more characteristic (and still is) then that would be N>S as its an overarching pattern of preference rather than an isolated moment of momentary expression of focus on another information type (assuming even that the aggression arose from Se's information focus).

[niffer]

I’ve never punched a person in the face before in my life and I type as Se lead.

I don’t get thrown off by superfluous details, and neither should anybody else.

Then again, I might just be IEI.

Or I should type as ESI and make Bertrand shit himself.

[senki]

Thanks, Myst!

I think you might be correct in your inferences. I am familiar with attachment theory . Luckily, over the past years (mostly based on the fact that I think I sabotaged some relationships by having this fatalistic attitude and not examining enough how it may actually be in part my behavior that led to such problems in relationships, I think I've become more secure and have really fought this fearful avoidant way in which I used to deal with things. I now actually let myself get into conflicts and risk losing relationships by being more open about my feelings or more communicative if I don't feel comfortable with how someone is acting toward me. Also have realized it's not the end of the world if something doesn't work out, but I think a lot of that is just maturity.

I will consider EIE and IEI for now.

[senki]

Like you say you were playing imaginary stuff then there was one flash of aggression. If the former was more characteristic (and still is) then that would be N>S as its an overarching pattern of preference rather than an isolated moment of momentary expression of focus on another information type (assuming even that the aggression arose from Se's information focus).

Haha, yes, I hardly believe that I am Se ego. . .I think it's impossible that I'm a sensing type in general. If anything, my usage of force was awkward, clearly misdirected, and typically overblown. I more meant I didn't think it was particularly empathic or sensitive of me to act in these ways when I did. . .but it probably should just be chalked up to having 2 older brothers and therefore witnessing a great deal of violence.

[Singu]

I actually relate a bit to what you're saying, and I also grew up with 2 older brothers. So that might have something to do with it. Although I've never really punched someone in the face before.

Perhaps the reason why you "scan" the environment is because you grew up in such an environment, and it was your way of looking out for dangers to avoid, when you were still a child and were relatively defenseless, in addition to already being sensitive to others' emotions anyway. This was written on the book "The Gift of Fear", which squark mentioned it before... The author grew up in a violent household environment, and claims that he picked up and honed the intuitive skills to avoid potential dangers in his childhood.

So I think that there are always causes for something. It doesn't really matter whether you say that is related to a type or Fe or whatever, because that is just categorizing of present behavior or cognition, but it doesn't explain its cause. It's like you say this or that is type related. Now what? You're not going to be getting anything new out of it. Ironically, you're not even in control of it. Only by understanding the causal mechanism of something, then you can control it.

You can neurotically categorize EVERY SINGLE ONE of your behaviors and cognitions, and you still won't be getting single new information out of it (unless of course, the causal mechanisms are already explained in that categorization).

[Bertrand]

I think feet have a lot to do with Si (but not necessarily valuing, just Si related in general)

[Myst]

Thanks, Myst!

I think you might be correct in your inferences. I am familiar with attachment theory . Luckily, over the past years (mostly based on the fact that I think I sabotaged some relationships by having this fatalistic attitude and not examining enough how it may actually be in part my behavior that led to such problems in relationships, I think I've become more secure and have really fought this fearful avoidant way in which I used to deal with things. I now actually let myself get into conflicts and risk losing relationships by being more open about my feelings or more communicative if I don't feel comfortable with how someone is acting toward me. Also have realized it's not the end of the world if something doesn't work out, but I think a lot of that is just maturity.

I will consider EIE and IEI for now.

This is cool! And np.