The most stress free relation

[UDP]

Hey

This may go under "any relations", but also here. I would ask you to describe the person you get along with best, in terms of psychological comfort. What qualities do they have? What functions, apparently, do they have (if it applies).

Who were/are the people you can work with or do thing with, (aside from just spending fun time with), in the most stress free way? ((Note, not necessarily stress free as in, someone you sit on your butt doing nothing with. I mean, just the least amount of psychological irritation))

What are your thoughts on this?

[UDP]

real life examples would be great.

[Kristiina]

ummmm dual? Duh.


EDIT... ummm... real-life dual? does that count as an example?

[implied]

ummmm dual? Duh.

lol yes.

[Slacker]

Yeah, really. This seems like an obvious thing.

[UDP]

I mean, what qualities does the person you have the most stress free relationship with - what qualities to they have, and why are they soothing to you.

[liveandletlive]

I mean, what qualities does the person you have the most stress free relationship with - what qualities to they have, and why are they soothing to you.

if you know anything about socionics you should be able to figure it out.

[UDP]

Like for me, I just had a completely refreshing experience. I am working on teams in many situations, from classes to organizations. One of my teams is frequently making jokes, chatting, talking, making fun of the teacher. There are 5 people in this group. To me, they don't really focus on the work, and don't really seem concerned with the work. Just doing enough to get by. But nevertheless, the actual atmosphere of the group is more orientated towards making light of our "situation" - how hard the project is, how weird the teacher is, how vague things are, etc. Those moments are periodic but frequent.

In comparison, I just had a group experience, with one person. We just focused on the work. There was substantially less effort put into lightening the mood. There was talk of the teacher, but only in so far as related to the material. To me, it was an extremely calm situation, and I felt no pulls at being more aware of and catering to people's moods. Consequently, I was more relaxed, and, I made very small comments that were just a little funny and well received. (I made a few remarks in the other group, but that group seemed to have a greater emphasis on being cool, or being chill about things, so it was more.. saying things only when there was an obvious opportunity, or it seemed to fit in with my preferences for making remarks)

The second group, just working with the one person, was extremely refreshing. The focus was on the work itself, and it felt ..... professional? Maybe that word just makes sense because in comparison to the other group, it seemed much less like a bunch of 20 year old collegers talking about how to do some project. The person showed up, put effort into things ahead of time, it was really great. But in general, there was essentially an absence of psychological discomfort, and that is what I noticed most.

[UDP]

if you know anything about socionics you should be able to figure it out.

Obviously.

Now that I am asking people to actually confirm that their dual gives them the best psychological relation, they are hesitant to share stories. Go figure.

[aestrivex]

Now that I am asking people to actually confirm that their dual gives them the best psychological relation, they are hesitant to share stories. Go figure.

perhaps you haven't seen it:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=16845

[liveandletlive]

gosh niffweed ure such a flip-flopper!

[Rubicon]

Hey

This may go under "any relations", but also here. I would ask you to describe the person you get along with best, in terms of psychological comfort. What qualities do they have? What functions, apparently, do they have (if it applies).

Who were/are the people you can work with or do thing with, (aside from just spending fun time with), in the most stress free way? ((Note, not necessarily stress free as in, someone you sit on your butt doing nothing with. I mean, just the least amount of psychological irritation))

What are your thoughts on this?

A thing I find comfortable is when the person I'm talking to is on the same wavelength as me - they're listening as well as comprehending on every level in the present so that they could finish my thoughts for me if they had to. The person is just completely receptive to what I'm saying at that moment and they don't let any preconceptions colour what they're hearing. I love that - it means to me that the person is really trying to understand me and get inside my head. I've experienced this with INFp, ENTp, sometimes ENFp. In my experience, INTjs appear do be doing this, but actually their mind is going a million miles an hour, making connections, dismissing this and that, retaining what they perceive the truth to be.

[Joy]

Activity.

Duality is most compatible for close, long term, serious relationships, but friendships with activity partners seem to just happen effortlessly, quickly, and smoothly. (Perhaps that has something to do with who my activity partner is though?)

[Jimbean]

for me, it is illusionary and relation of benefit with EIE.
Beta NF's

[BLauritson]

So, if I understand you correctly, you're asking what it is about our duals (assuming it is duality that works best for the individual) that we like? Well I'll assume that is what you're asking and see what happens. Hmm.. things I like about SEEs..

- They tend to be rather playful and yet still have a serious outlook on life beneath the surface
- The ones I've known have always been genuine and very easy to get along with
- This will probably somewhat contradict what I've said about them being genuine (OK, let's say genuine towards people they like), I enjoy it when we secretly bitch about people we both dislike
- Some of the stuff they come out with (seems to result from a tendency to speak without thinking) can be hilarious
- They always seem to like me
- When they know me well enough, whenever something arouses their curiosity they'll always ask me (i.e. they seem to look to me as a source of knowledge, which I like)

I'm not saying that the above is in any way exclusive to SEEs and not necessarily a direct result of their type, but these are some real life, tangible traits I like about my SEE friends.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Two people immediately come to mind.

1st, my little sister, who is possibly ISFJ. She's giving, caring, and loving. She's melodramatic, which causes me to laugh at her. I know she doesn't appreciate that; she's just so funny. I do make fun of her moods, but I also reiterate that I do love her afterward. She's like, "I know". She has been known to hit or kick me, though. I think we get along so well because we're opposites. I like her calmness when it comes to affection (she doesn't bounce up and throw her arms around me), too. If I get onto her, it's generally for the way she expresses herself (she's gotta learn to not speak so forcefully when angry), because yelling does no good. She and my brother have been known to make food for us to try, and I believe she likes to cook. She and my grandmother (who, ironically, is the same temperament combination) are two people I feel close to and fine around.

2: My grandmother. She's an I__J in MB. We don't know the other 2 yet. She's my mentor, and we get along well (until she asks me to do certain chores). I respect her, but I know not to mess with her, either; I've heard her stories. Apparently, I've inherited some of her traits.

3: My best friend. I have no idea what type he was (he was in all likelihood Mel/Phleg or Phleg/Mel, aka C/S or S/C). We had very similar interests and fit together well; in fact, it was only later that I truly realized our stark differences in personality. He never could figure me out because I continually surprised him. He was very helpful, and he had a very amusing sense of humor. He was undoubtedly the calmer one, and more stable. He wrote and drew (not professionally). I'm fairly certain he is not my dual; I really think he's more N than S. I was greatly the dominant one in that friendship, though I have a hard time seeing it that way. I definitely had influence over him, but I think he was the stronger, more mature one.

4: Another friend. He's a __TP, whatever he is. He has a strong, active imagination and was good at sensing things but still managed to keep me pulled together. He definitely wore the pants in our friendship, and I was happy to let him; it meant less work for me. He was very helpful, and he took a lot from me; he did most of the cooking when we both lived at college, but occasionally he'd tell me it was my turn to do it. *shrugs* If he'd asserted himself more often, he would've had to cook less. He definitely took care of me, but that irritated me here and there - I have this thing about not viewing myself as helpless - and I would assert my independence every so often. We complemented each other a lot and consequently got on well together. Still, he had his glaring weaknesses, and so did I. They brought about the end of things.

[Jimbean]

heh you sure you're not beta ST?

I never really fully believed in the intertype relations theory.

I get along well with people that are Fe, but I find Ni much more interesting than Si. Si on a more personal level is either redundant or awkward, that is why I don't understand that whole duality thing for myself.

IMHO It also looks like to me that a person's relations have more to do with common values than inherent socionic values, at least that is what I see.

[ScarlettLux]

I have to agree with Activity for friendship as well... so easy, so natural and almost strangely quick to begin. I immediately know when someone is LSI - I click right away, without any effort and they with me, just by being ourselves.

I have little experience with my alleged dual, but I would somehow tend to believe that it would take longer to actually engage with them

[Joy]

I posted a thread once about why activity is so easy (well, one of the reasons). Your activity partner has your 7th function as their 4th instead of their 3rd.

[meatburger]

Activity.

Duality is most compatible for close, long term, serious relationships, but friendships with activity partners seem to just happen effortlessly, quickly, and smoothly. (Perhaps that has something to do with who my activity partner is though?)

Thats exactly what ive found too

[zenbrat]

Activity is definately the most stress-free IntR but activity partners are unable to respond to each other's emotional issues. Activity partners kinda stand around asking, "umm, ok... so like, what do you need me to do??" Sure you might get a sympathetic stock response or a humorous distraction, but there is no real ability to support or console. The emotional worlds are foreign to each other - similar in some regards, but very different in others. That sort of understanding doesn't happen naturally between activity partners, as it does between dual partners.

[Joy]

I love your avatar.

Anyways, I agree that activity partners can't give you everything you need the way your dual can, but I haven't noticed the lack of emotional connectedness/compatibility. I more notice the everyday/practical problems that arise from temperament issues. The EP is too carefree for the EJ, the EJ is too uptight for the EP. The EJ doesn't help the EP relax, and the EP doesn't make the EJ relax. Relationships are processed differently (rational types seem to need more definition than irrational types), etc.

[aestrivex]

I have to agree with Activity for friendship as well... so easy, so natural and almost strangely quick to begin. I immediately know when someone is LSI - I click right away, without any effort and they with me, just by being ourselves.

I have little experience with my alleged dual, but I would somehow tend to believe that it would take longer to actually engage with them

what exactly leads you to believe that you're IEI over EIE?

[UDP]

Activity is easy too, hmm. But dual seems to be the right sort of counterpart.

[zenbrat]

I love your avatar.

Thanks. It's actually Tila Tequila (the whole pic is awesome too). I fell in love with those boots but I can't find them anywhere!

Anyways, I agree that activity partners can't give you everything you need the way your dual can, but I haven't noticed the lack of emotional connectedness/compatibility. I more notice the everyday/practical problems that arise from temperament issues. The EP is too carefree for the EJ, the EJ is too uptight for the EP. The EJ doesn't help the EP relax, and the EP doesn't make the EJ relax. Relationships are processed differently (rational types seem to need more definition than irrational types), etc.

Exactly! That is a good way to describe the conflict of temperament in activity.

An LSI friend of mine and I enjoy doing many of the same things but planning the activity gets frustrating. IJ must settle the details before deciding whether or not to say yes/no (i.e. when, where, what time, how much, how long, etc.). As an IP, I'm saying "just come on! We will figure it out as we go".

[Mea]

IME, definitely my dual.

I have a female best friend who is SEE. Being with her, I feel totally at ease, I could be myself and not worry about her complaining that I'm oversensitive and constantly saying the wrong things at the wrong time, unlike being with alphas and betas. She does most of the talking though.

I have once related a scenario about working with her. When we work together, we are almost completely at ease. She is about to organize the group, tells everyone what to do, and I'm very comfortable with that, I always know what to expect around her, and if I tell her that things are going wrong, or we need to do this instead of that, and the reasons, she somehow completely trusts me and set things into motion.
She's also my best shopping partner(an activity which I loathe).

One thing I really like is we can be totally straightforward with each other. Basically, we have never rubbed each other the wrong way.

[Slacker]

I don't find activity to be better than dual, and I'm not talking about my husband here but about friends, because they still have that Ej antsyness and I love the Ip pace a whooooooole lot. I find it much easier to work with in every way - including as friends.

[Ezra]

Hey

This may go under "any relations", but also here. I would ask you to describe the person you get along with best, in terms of psychological comfort. What qualities do they have? What functions, apparently, do they have (if it applies).

Who were/are the people you can work with or do thing with, (aside from just spending fun time with), in the most stress free way? ((Note, not necessarily stress free as in, someone you sit on your butt doing nothing with. I mean, just the least amount of psychological irritation))

What are your thoughts on this?

Your dual, duh.

[Ezra]

I posted a thread once about why activity is so easy (well, one of the reasons). Your activity partner has your 7th function as their 4th instead of their 3rd.

liveandletlive also posted a ranking system which determined (from worst to best I believe) who a given type got on best with. Obviously, dual was #1, conflictor was #16.

[mikemex]

One thing I really like is we can be totally straightforward with each other. Basically, we have never rubbed each other the wrong way.

I find it curious that my relationships with SLIs doesn't usually go right.

[Ezra]

Maybe you're not an IEE then.

[zenbrat]

I find it curious that my relationships with SLIs doesn't usually go right.

Maybe you're not an IEE then.

I've never known a dual relationship to be exceptionally fabulous or stress-free either. Honestly, duality has been highly idealized.

If anything, dual relationships have been more like compelling friendships. No matter how bad it gets, we are compelled to continue. As if we are compelled to 'get it right'. A lot of love, affection and mutual admiration/appreciation grows over time, but it is extremely difficult and frustrating until it stabilizes - this has taken a year or more with some duals.

I've experienced higher states of infatuation, love and continuing interest in other types of relationships: euphoria of illusionary, excitement of activity, merging of look-a-like and 'safety' of benefit. But, duality... it goes from High to Low to FUBAR to Low to Balanced to Dull. No great romance here, and almost always settles into plain 'ol friendship.

[Slacker]

i'm pretty sure she is not. text and looks.

Mikemex is a guy, and the picture was of his girlfriend.

But I don't think he's ENFp either.

[FDG]

Contrary to what people say, I definitely have more dual (ISFj being my dual, that is) friends than anything else. The only relation that maybe I can consider as being more stressfree in friendship is identical. However I could never imagine a relationship with another ExTx, even if if I were to, I would still find ENTjs and ENTps to be preferable to ESTps and ESTjs.

[mikemex]

I've never known a dual relationship to be exceptionally fabulous or stress-free either. Honestly, duality has been highly idealized.

Yup. My father (LII) has an old, dual friend (ESE). While they get along fine, there is as much repulsion between them as there is attraction. It is because duals see faults easily in one another (their areas of strength are completely opposite) and thus they must be balanced to get along together peacefully.

In this case, the friction starts because both are engineers, but only the friend holds a title, so when they engage in engineering discussions, it quickly becomes evident that my father is more adept at it, but his friend can't accept being wrong despite of his education. The problem becomes particularly nasty because my father is a genius and thus the intelligence level is unbalanced right from the start. Socionics doesn't take into account that interrelationships can be unbalanced by factors other than type.

Something almost identical happens to me with an SLI friend that I have. Like my father and his friend, we are both engineers, but only him holds a title. And like my dad and his friend, he's unwilling to accept that his education doesn't automatically make him right.

----------------------------------------

As a general comment, I've noticed that comments like this annoy SLIs on the forum, but it doesn't make them any less true. There is no intention to degrade anyone; it's simply a neutral observation. My impression is that Si sensors rely more on memory than on reason to solve problems. They are very good at observing cases and storing the information for later use, but they don't really understand what all that information means. The way information is correlated to produce a general trend is an intuitive trait and it's what is needed to make predictions: to reduce information into concepts and later use the concepts to re-construct the original information, or even combine the concepts creatively to produce information that didn't exist before.

Since Si sensors often struggle about making accurate predictions, they often rely on empirical experimentation (Thomas Alba E. comes to my mind). It is very accurate, probably more accurate than other forms of thinking, but highly restricted whitin its own context and nearly useless for general purposes.

[Joy]

I dunno, I've been in two serious long term relationships with my dual, and I think duality kicks ass.

[Slacker]

Yeah, I've been married to my dual for 10 years and I'm quite happy. And I've had a number of dual friends in my life. Good times!

[Ezra]

If anything, dual relationships have been more like compelling friendships. No matter how bad it gets, we are compelled to continue. As if we are compelled to 'get it right'. A lot of love, affection and mutual admiration/appreciation grows over time, but it is extremely difficult and frustrating until it stabilizes - this has taken a year or more with some duals.

Then I'm an SLI. This is exactly the kind of thing I experience with my IEE friend.