dual-type theory commentary

[liveandletlive]

so one cool thing about socionics is that our knowledge and understanding of it is constantly growing, evolving, and building upon itself the more experiences we have people we meet in life.

this is more dealing with observations ive had that ive been noticing a lot recently and it would be interesting to hear some feedback on.

ive been noticing tons of types having similar mannerisms, ways of saying things, etc. like their duals. i pride myself on my typing skills and can usually type sumone within the first couple minutes of meeting them (- holler!) but my boss who i originally thought was a SEE, i figured out was actually an ILI. this i guess started my whole piecing types acting like their duals thing.

another example is my LII dad doing the alpha thing i notice a lot like if someone forgets to invite them to something even though it was an obvious mistake to everyone saying things like "thanks a lot" or something to that effect.

another example is our "8th [ESI] roommate" wikipediaing hiccups to explain our other roommates' hiccupping attack.

idk there's a lot more i've been noticing but those are just specific examples. i know this is gonna sound retarted too but in a way i've been realizing how there's like a little ILI inside of me... ahhhhhhhhh!!! lol no but seriously i have felt that way if that makes any sense.

wow i feel really vulnerable rite now... anyway please don't make fun of me that much and try to get what i mean through my 4:30 am post.

[liveandletlive]

btw, i forgot to add that i think that this also shows how we use our "weak" elements more than we think we do.

[Logos]

You're not the first to point out that sometimes people sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between duals. Once when I posted pictures of my EII roommate, there were a number who thought that he was an LSE. I also believe that there was also a number of people who typed Niffweed's SLI dad as IEE. And I recall my fair share of What's My Type threads in which discussions took place over whether or not the person in question was an EIE or LSI and LIE or ESI (though confusing an LII and a ESE seems to be the least frequent ). So no worries about being made fun of for your post, when it is fairly spot on from at least where I am standing. Of course, if such an observation is noticeable, then the question needs to be raised as to why this confusion between typing duals can and does occur.

[liveandletlive]

You're not the first to point out that sometimes people sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between duals. Once when I posted pictures of my EII roommate, there were a number who thought that he was an LSE. I also believe that there was also a number of people who typed Niffweed's SLI dad as IEE. And I recall my fair share of What's My Type threads in which discussions took place over whether or not the person in question was an EIE or LSI and LIE or ESI (though confusing an LII and a ESE seems to be the least frequent ). So no worries about being made fun of for your post, when it is fairly spot on from at least where I am standing. Of course, if such an observation is noticeable, then the question needs to be raised as to why this confusion between typing duals can and does occur.

aww thanks logos! that's what im trying to figure out too... either the dual-type theory has more validity than we thought or people use their weak, valued functions more than we thought, or sum other reason altogether.

[liveandletlive]

that's true too. i think it also makes sense how in ur head u can imagine how your dual will react to something... which is also how you're able to complement eachother so well... there's a little one of them inside you... haha sounds so freaky

[aestrivex]

ftr dual type theory has nothing to do with this. dual type theory postulates the existence of types like IEE-SEI.

the fact that some people might look like their dual could easily be nothing more than strong quadra values and the fact that socionics is not an all-encompassing description of who people are.

[Expat]

ftr dual type theory has nothing to do with this. dual type theory postulates the existence of types like IEE-SEI.

the fact that some people might look like their dual could easily be nothing more than strong quadra values and the fact that socionics is not an all-encompassing description of who people are.

Definitely so on both counts.

at the atlanta meet, hkkmr said something along the lines of, deep inside, duals are like the same person. and I've heard things mentioned too before. . . someone once mentioned here that SLEs have the heart of an IEI and so forth. it might also has to do with quadra values, valuing the same things and having similar motivations for things, like, maybe you can look at a group of people and go, "oh, they're delta" but are not able to really distinguish their individual types so easily.

You see, that is pretty much my approach to socionics. But some people don't seem to see it that way, and I am starting to suspect the reasons.

[ScarlettLux]

I love that - Duals are basically the same person, two sides to one coin. Aww.

[Slacker]

This isn't dual-type theory, but I do think it's easier to tell what functions someone values than what functions someone is strong in.

[BLauritson]

I'd definitely agree on the concept of duals being two sides of one coin, it's just that one side of this coin shows up more than the other in a given individual. The only danger with that kind of thinking though is it kind of implies that duals are automatically soul-mates or that you're guaranteed to get along with your dual, which is an unfortunately common misconception. But at least as far as functional makeup is concerned, I think it's safe to use the Coin Concept®.

[Logos]

ftr dual type theory has nothing to do with this. dual type theory postulates the existence of types like IEE-SEI.

the fact that some people might look like their dual could easily be nothing more than strong quadra values and the fact that socionics is not an all-encompassing description of who people are.

This is what I suspect it is. Just because a function is weak and subconscious does not mean that they are somehow not using it or attentive to it while seeking to respond to it.

[liveandletlive]

quadra values tho doesn't explain why types have the tendency to act like their dual specifically.

[xyz]

When I was in highschool, particularly only around my 2 close friends, I acted out there and loved to make random jokes about 2 seemingly unrelated things. So you might be on to something... I think

[tcaudilllg]

This is what I suspect it is. Just because a function is weak and subconscious does not mean that they are somehow not using it or attentive to it while seeking to respond to it.

Yes, something I've increasingly began to wonder about: does everyone have this capacity in equal supply? Are there some who are better able to judge the effects of a function on its dual than others? Do people need a schema to do this, and if so, are there people who are better at making them than others?

I find it interesting that whenever I begin drawing a new conclusion about dichotomous behavioral tendencies, there is always someone coming up with a notion of basically the same thing, but fixing it as a choice rather than a norm.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah there are times when i feel i act like an ESFj and once i thought i had strong fe. but yeah i mean nothing shuts me up faster than when a real ESFj is there. So basically, you act like your dual because your dual isnt there. When I'm acting like an ESFj, it's incredibly draining and i have no idea if I am successful at Fe and Si ing, but i feel the need to do so in my dual's absence.

Like someone posted here that hitta, presumably a Ti type, uses Fe because he seeks it. Not saying if that is true or not of hitta, but yes this is something i see happening.. using a weak function to put out feelers to receive it.

[tcaudilllg]

yeah there are times when i feel i act like an ESFj and once i thought i had strong fe. but yeah i mean nothing shuts me up faster than when a real ESFj is there. So basically, you act like your dual because your dual isnt there. When I'm acting like an ESFj, it's incredibly draining and i have no idea if I am successful at Fe and Si ing, but i feel the need to do so in my dual's absence.

Like someone posted here that hitta, presumably a Ti type, uses Fe because he seeks it. Not saying if that is true or not of hitta, but yes this is something i see happening.. using a weak function to put out feelers to receive it.

Question: do you often think about how your logic can affect your Fe? Do you find yourself trying to accomplish that which you suspect will assist your dual as a normal course of behavior? Do you have confidence in your ability to create new and novel means of assisting your dual?

[Ms. Kensington]

no, no, yes

[tcaudilllg]

no, no, yes

Interesting... I think I'm gong to start a poll on this.

[liveandletlive]

yeah there are times when i feel i act like an ESFj and once i thought i had strong fe. but yeah i mean nothing shuts me up faster than when a real ESFj is there. So basically, you act like your dual because your dual isnt there. When I'm acting like an ESFj, it's incredibly draining and i have no idea if I am successful at Fe and Si ing, but i feel the need to do so in my dual's absence.

Like someone posted here that hitta, presumably a Ti type, uses Fe because he seeks it. Not saying if that is true or not of hitta, but yes this is something i see happening.. using a weak function to put out feelers to receive it.

i absolutely 100% agree with this!

[Logos]

Yes, but I think that is part of the whole 'acting out your Quadra values" bit. The ENxj values , so even if they have weak subconscious , they continue to try and act upon it and shape themselves accordingly to it and make themselves appear willful, resolute, and sensible in these matters. And even if the INxj lacks an ESxj, they still would want their guests or themselves to be comfortable, because that is what they would want for themselves, and so they try and make up for the lacking presence of their dual in such situations.

[liveandletlive]

Yes, but I think that is part of the whole 'acting out your Quadra values" bit. The ENxj values , so even if they have weak subconscious , they continue to try and act upon it and shape themselves accordingly to it and make themselves appear willful, resolute, and sensible in these matters. And even if the INxj lacks an ESxj, they still would want their guests or themselves to be comfortable, because that is what they would want for themselves, and so they try and make up for the lacking presence of their dual in such situations.

but y specifically your dual? idk, IME i haven't seen a type acting like their activity or mirror. yes i know it has to do with the order of the functions complementing e/o, but im talking about IRL.

[Logos]

but y specifically your dual? idk, IME i haven't seen a type acting like their activity or mirror. yes i know it has to do with the order of the functions complementing e/o, but im talking about IRL.

I have seen types acting as their mirror. But I suppose that comes from the function order and a rational vs. irrational ordering. By that I mean that an INTj may have a much harder time switching to trying to act with leading perceiving () than to another leading rational function, like say (role) or (suggestive). Or in the case of the ESFp, it may be harder for you to switch to a leading rational function, because you use your main rational function creatively, so to put your corresponding creative rational function (i.e. your HA) as your suggestive function would be even more of a bungling mess than processing what the hell I am trying to say in this sentence.

[liveandletlive]

I have seen types acting as their mirror. But I suppose that comes from the function order and a rational vs. irrational ordering. By that I mean that an INTj may have a much harder time switching to trying to act with leading perceiving () than to another leading rational function, like say (role) or (suggestive). Or in the case of the ESFp, it may be harder for you to switch to a leading rational function, because you use your main rational function creatively, so to put your corresponding creative rational function (i.e. your HA) as your suggestive function would be even more of a bungling mess than processing what the hell I am trying to say in this sentence.

i get what u mean but i still think there may be more to this story...

[Logos]

i get what u mean but i still think there may be more to this story...

There is always more to the story. What are your suspicions? But if there is more to the story, perhaps your suspicions as to what is lacking can be a good path of inquiry.

[Ezra]

I'd be surprised if individuals didn't sometimes act like their duals. They value their duals' base and creative functions, so it's natural to assume that they would attempt to become more adept in them. When someone comes along who used the aptly, the individual is overjoyed, because said someone is good at something they want to be good at. That's what having a dual is all about.

On the other hand, I could easily see these kinds of feelings creating jealousy, especially with people who are naturally competitive ("he's good at what I'm not... let's beat him up").

[liveandletlive]

There is always more to the story. What are your suspicions? But if there is more to the story, perhaps your suspicions as to what is lacking can be a good path of inquiry.

idk im gonna think about it more and let u know... right now im looking into duals with other intertype relations...

[liveandletlive]

ok so now im thinking that maybe it's because we're just confident in our ego functions although we may use our id functions more than socionics literature suggests, because we are not confident in these functions and ourselves and others identify us by our ego functions, perhaps that is why when we are with our duals it's a relief and comfortable for them to take on our valued, but weak functions. sorry for the longest sentence ever haha. what do u guys think?

[Logos]

ok so now im thinking that maybe it's because we're just confident in our ego functions although we may use our id functions more than socionics literature suggests, because we are not confident in these functions and ourselves and others identify us by our ego functions, perhaps that is why when we are with our duals it's a relief and comfortable for them to take on our valued, but weak functions. sorry for the longest sentence ever haha. what do u guys think?

Interesting. I just posted a similar sort of question here that deals with this possibility.

[Ezra]

ok so now im thinking that maybe it's because we're just confident in our ego functions although we may use our id functions more than socionics literature suggests, because we are not confident in these functions and ourselves and others identify us by our ego functions, perhaps that is why when we are with our duals it's a relief and comfortable for them to take on our valued, but weak functions. sorry for the longest sentence ever haha. what do u guys think?

But we are confident in our Id functions. The point is that we are confident in our base (first), creative (second), ignoring (seventh) and demonstrative (eighth) functions. That's the idea Model A is based on. It is an interesting thing that many socionics descriptions seem to shun any notion of our using our Id functions, because, in principle, we should be using them as much as we do our Ego functions.

Unless you were mixed up with Id (seventh and eighth) and Super-Id (fifth and sixth functions), in which case, yes, I agree with you.

Think of it like this: you can look at socionics dichotomically. If you are a Thinking type, it means you're good in both Ti and Te. If you're a Sensing type, it means you're good at both Se and Si. If you're Introverted as socionics.us determines introversion, you're likely to have an Introverted base function. If you're irrational as socionics describes irrationality, you're likely to be Si or Ni base function.

[liveandletlive]

But we are confident in our Id functions. The point is that we are confident in our base (first), creative (second), ignoring (seventh) and demonstrative (eighth) functions. That's the idea Model A is based on. It is an interesting thing that many socionics descriptions seem to shun any notion of our using our Id functions, because, in principle, we should be using them as much as we do our Ego functions.

Unless you were mixed up with Id (seventh and eighth) and Super-Id (fifth and sixth functions), in which case, yes, I agree with you.

Think of it like this: you can look at socionics dichotomically. If you are a Thinking type, it means you're good in both Ti and Te. If you're a Sensing type, it means you're good at both Se and Si. If you're Introverted as socionics.us determines introversion, you're likely to have an Introverted base function. If you're irrational as socionics describes irrationality, you're likely to be Si or Ni base function.

i meant confident in terms of usage not confident in values. sry i actually meant super-id btw. but yeah i agree with u on the id.