Listed in the DSM criteria for Borderline PD is
'a weak and highly variable self concept'
....could this be type instability?
Borderline Personality Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder
Listed in the DSM criteria for Borderline PD is
'a weak and highly variable self concept'
....could this be type instability?
If I may guess I would say rather an unhealthy type of ESFJ / ESFP / ENFPOriginally Posted by xixi
I wouldn't guess that Borderline is type related. No type really stands out to me as one that literally loves you and thinks you are the best one day and hates you and thinks you have never done anything right the next for little to no reason.
Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
enneagram type 6
In a psych tute once, the lecturer (a clin psych) told us about one of her patients who had multiple pd - this girl had enrolments in two separate universities, and wasn't aware of it.
also saw a doco once on multiple pd in which the patient would abruptly switch into younger versions of herself for unpredictable periods - sometimes just a few minutes, sometimes days on end.
how could public awareness and psychologists 'induce' that kind of behaviour?? usually these behaviours are the reason for the patient going to see the psych (i.e. they occur before the patient has even met a psych).
it's a fact that some personality disorders are related to types. So I think the probability that it is type related is higher then that it's not.
You should read "Switching Time" - it's a book about a lady with 17 personalities created over years of horrific abuse by her father and his friends.Multiple Personality Disorder would be even farther from being type related. It is debated about whether it is even a true disorder or induced by public awareness and psychologists.
There's no way that book is made up.
IEE
true. But some psychologists doubt whether it are multiple personalities, or that something else is going on in that mind.
I would guess that EPs are more likely to have borderline, but you can't really say that there's a direct relationship between them, even if a behavioral correlation was theoretically established.
Borderline personality disorder is very interesting In my opinion
I don't know if it exists or not, through I have heard a psychartist told me once that he never have a Multiple personality disorder patients.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
yes it's rare.
or maybe people confused it with some other disorder?
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
it seems that persons with multiple personalities also have distinctively different writing styles, depending which personality of them was writing at the moment. Ofcourse you could practice on it, but aside from frauds, this seems to be evidence of the existance of mp.
ok so it's not just some mood disorder.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Not related to Socionics but to general traits...
My abnormal psychology class is teaching the relationship between Big 5 and some mental disorders; research by my professor and others have shown a connection between quite high extraversion, open-mindedness and Bipolar disorders (even compared to a normal sample community) whereas there is low introversion, and high neuroticism for Mood disorders like Major Depression, General Anxiety, etc. However, high neuroticism is basically predictive of any mental disorder, really.
Just thought this was interesting and related b/c Borderline imo would be related to high neuroticism, low agreeableness, low conscientousness, and ? open-mindedness.
oh just for the record. Since this thread covers two different subjects...
Borderline = mood disorder
Multiple Personality disorder = different personalities in one person.
maybe you can ask your teacher if he knows some correlation between mbti types and personality disorders. It would be interesting to hear.
yep
internet says: borderline -> High Neurotism, Low Agreeableness, Low Conscientousness
yes correct.
Though it's a personality disorder which has instability in moods. So there's the reason for my mistake...
To both of you... I'm not saying it doesn't exist but there is serious debate about whether it is indeed other personalities and how the disorder emerges. Some believe that these people get some sort of social benefit from the symptomology and so it grows (such as in conversion disorder) or that psychologists can prompt patients by putting them under hypnosis and asking things like "is there another personality inside you?".
Says who? How can you confirm it as fact?
In this thread Scarlett talks about the correlations between big five traits and some mood disorders, but the big five traits don't necessarily correlate over to socionics types.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
I believe DID is a product of type instability.
Borderline personality disorder is characterized by unstable feelings of attachment and fear of loneliness: borderlines have a great deal of contempt for their partner but they stick with them anyway out of fear that they will be abandoned.
...A lot of mentalities can produce the behavioral effect of BPB. As such, it is unwise to treat the diagnosis as anything but a clinician's tool. (that's what DSM is meant to be -- the popularization of its diagnoses is not what its creators intended).
Somewhere on wikipedia I read that schizoid personality disorders are (nearly) always INTJ or INTP on MBTI tests.
Though it's not strange that personality disorders SOMEWHAT correlate, they often portray an extreme of a type, or a dichotomy. Also you can exclude types.
Just for the record, before we get into a discussion about definitions/precision etc. : what I am saying is that not every type can get any personality disorder. And some personality disorders correlate more then others with types. So basicaly it's not a random thing.
that's a bold guess.
every type can get pd. but not every pd.
Most pd's have criteria that match a certain dichotomie or combination. For example Histronic -> extreme extraverson. So I guess no introvert type will be able to get that diagnose.
Integrative psych
Mightn't it be that general traits, Model A, and mood & personality disorders are ALL interrelated? that these theories aren't actually describing exclusive phenomena, but the same, similar or related mental states and processes?
RE...
...A lot of mentalities can produce the behavioral effect of BPB. As such, it is unwise to treat the diagnosis as anything but a clinician's tool. (that's what DSM is meant to be -- the popularization of its diagnoses is not what its creators intended).
Not trying to popularize personality disorders here, but provoke ppl into thinking about the broader functional consequences of Model A and type.
Observationally, there are phenotypic similarities and 'apparent' correlations between type and personality disorder - for instance, social avoidance disorder and type - what proportion of ISTp's are socially avoidant compared to ENFj's? You don't need to do a correlational study to know that there is a significant difference. Not saying it's impossible for an ENFj to be socially avoidant, but pointing out that certain temperaments and arrangement of information elements have a higher likelihood of developing certain dysfunctions, and asking why, what is the underlying mechanism?
The abundance of psych theories we currently have are probably describing similar/related phenomena.
Not sure if I agree with that statement.
I would argue that histrionic is more about attention seeking than extraversion. I think introverts would be capable of this behavior but that extroverts would probably be more likely candidates.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
I'm not a psychologist but I think there is certainly a strong correlation between personality type and personality disorder. As an LII I'm quite close to schizotypal disorder but I would certainly never get a histrionic disorder.
Some criteria of personality disorders even seem to describe exactly an unhealthy example of a certain type. The "uncovered" descriptions on socionics.com also sound like descriptions of certain personality disorders.
LII - schizotypal - Ne-creative
ILI - schizoid - Fe-vulnerable
EIE - paranoid - Ni-creative
SEE - borderline - Fi-creative
ESE - histrionic - Fe-base
a socionics criteria is that introverts don't like attention, while extraverts tend to have a need for it. I would guess that if you typed all people who have been diagnosed histronic you would get a 95%/5% on E / I
You need a bigger trait inventory first.
Yeah, I once tried to make a list of it too. Again, it correlates far for perfect, it's not that I want to couple theories, but there are some clear positive correlations and negative correlations to be found.
From the back of my head, this seems reasonably accurate:
Schizotypal LII and IEI
Schizoid ILI and LII
Paranoid LSI
Borderline SEE and IEE
Histronic EIE
AntiSocial SLE and SLI
Narcistic SLE?
ObsessiveCompulsive LSI
Dependant ESI?
Avoidant ?
what was glenn close's character in fatal attraction? i think that's fairly well agreed-upon as a fictional character who is an amazingly good example of borderline pd. i think people throw around the dx too much without something to use as an example.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
do you also know or have an idea of the type of the person?
all of those are so wrong...
so far my research, as sad as it is and as unfair, and it does really break my heart to say, have uncovered none of those to be true. It's part of dangerous ideas that people shouldn't have because, people create stereotypes and cast judgments where they don't understand the science behind such occurrences.
That’s why, in science, we use research and publish them in review articles where majority of the human population can not get a hold of them and make outrageous assumptions.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
there is also other research that sais it's right (at some points).
You often seem to talk about your own research, but it isn't a crime to lean on other peoples research...it widens your perspective and knowledge
Perhaps these people are just more likely to simply test as these types.
Yeah, definitely. I've even had personal experience with this. The girl was ESI but I don't think socionics type had anything to do with it.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
@ maritsa
I don't see what so hard to accept.
some types are more common or even exclusively in certain pd's.
like some types are more common to become a boxer or math professor.
etc. The link should be obvious.
oh and about the 1000 SEE. that was just a guess as I said, the only proof/evidence I have is about ILI and LII. You can have that if you want.
Last edited by Jarno; 02-23-2010 at 07:49 PM.
ok I've read enough about this disorder to know that -
I definitely have it. all bullshit aside. when I peer deep inside of myself...well actually AT myself from a 3rd person point of view, I see that I clearly have this disorder. probably to an extreme degree..
either way...
that explains why I can't find a good mate.
but can fuck a bunch of em and be fine.
too bad when I get attached...my emotions get BPD.
SO...I'm an ESFP. and I personally believe that...an unhealthy ESFP and ENFP and ESTP and INFP and INTP can have this disorder.
I'm sure there's others....but these 5 types, I can verify...through real people I know of those types that have those qualities, at times..
of course...I believe this disorder to be temporary...and depends on the emotional place you're at in life.
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