I constantly make a fool of myself and don't know how to change

[Reyne]

-

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

a therapist sounds like a good idea. have you persuaded yourself that your internal world is something to be shielded from anything that happens outside? is it frail?

[Tallmo]

I've seen this in young ILIs. The cure is to finish your studies, work or maybe go to the army. After that they become more connected to reality.

I wouldnt focus too much on this problem. Instead just do what you have to do, and things will change.

[woofwoofl]

First, remember -- you're the person in the area with the least home field advantage. There's a double-digit number of THEM, and one of YOU. Expect hell and be implacable w/o breaching social decorum, be ready for war.

I spent Eastern Monday at my gf's house. There were a lot of family members. Grandparents,uncles, cousins. It's a very loud family generally and they kind of make me uncomfortable. I felt very embarassed 2 times:
1) While I was trying to listen to a conversation between some family members without success, the uncle (he was at the other side of the table) suddenly shouted to me "ARE YOU DEAF?!". When I asked the reason, he said he was calling my name since a long time, but I wasn't answering. I realised I was so focused on trying to partecipate to the other conversation that I removed myself from the rest of the room;

He's comparatively on home turf, the onus is more on him to communicate effectively. Either he's being an idiot or pulling a bs power play.

Mild/safe: yell a variant of "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" and make sure he is more mad than you. A supplementary "NEED TO TURN UP THE HEARING AID", w/o directed proper nouns, would function as a "ha ha you suck because you're old" joke, while maintaining enough plausible deniability for the atmosphere's disruption, if there is any, to be Not Your Fault.

As the saying goes, he started it...

2) At a certain point everything got SERIOUSLY loud. They were all screaming, laughing, and talking about old shared experiences (I was the only oursider) from long ago about of which I couldn't talk about. And it was hard to focus also because it doesn't really interest me to know where people have been on holiday, what they've done etc... of other stuff I already knew about, but I don't understand why they keep repeating it. Well, but the point is: there was too much noise and I was extremely uncomfortable, and I wasn't able to concentrate on what they were saying. So I decided to stare at the tv, hoping to appear as a normal person watching tv, so that they wouldn't talk directly to me. In the meantime I was thinking about the situation, asking myself when the hell would have come to an end.
After a while I suddenly heared my gf scream "HEY, DO YOU KNOW THAT I AM TALKING TO YOU SINCE 3 HOURS?!". I was like "Uhm, sorry I didn't realise. I was watching tv". She said something like "Fuck you" and everybody laughed. She kind of was in the direction of the tv, and since I don't really make eye contact a lot when I'm talking with people, she thought i was listening.

From what I see, she expressed loud and clear; blood-family (them) has priority over chosen-family (you).

Being outnumbered ≠ being wrong.

The same situation happens often when I'm with her. She's angry because she says she always has to catch my attention, otherwise I won't listen. She also said that it appears like I'm thinking about the nothingness in those moments. It actually offended me, since I'm pretty proud of my interior world, which I consider very rich.

The day after we discussed pretty heavily, and she said that external people probably think I don't care about them because my way of being. I was angry because I didn't feel accepted, but I felt wrong too. I seriously don't know how to change this. It has always been a problem to me. I even considered going to something like an occupational therapist(?) or a doctor, lol. I want to be normal. What should I do?

Find cooler, more you-compatible people, and move the center of the unavoidably-local "normal" to YOU.

[Chae]

a therapist sounds like a good idea. have you persuaded yourself that your internal world is something to be shielded from anything that happens outside? is it frail?

Too fast, careful there. It might just be a mismatched environment. That doesn't happen when you are somewhere you feel comfortable at, or meant to be. Better compatibility, better health (feeling ""normal""), this is what Socionics also states. Not everything that goes wrong has to be pathologized and needs expensive (!) professional counseling when you're just not living life in the right surroundings. I'd like to see him in a social circle where he really resonates. If anything, the account tells us about where he would fit in the best. If therapy is recommended, the feeling of alienation will likely just grow while someone else profits.

[Number 9 large]

Youre trying too hard. Just relax dude

[maniac]

That family just sounds annoying to me

[WVBRY]

Change gfs.

[Sol]

Look more often to the eyes of people which are important for you when they are near to notice what happens.
When significant people are near, you should pay more attention to all of them.
You as base Ni seems go too deep in inner world. It's unusual to do when other important people are near.
Try to concentrate more on people, on the emotional "field" they organise together. Such you'll easier notice when the attention will be directed on you.

[WVBRY]

Too fast, careful there. It might just be a mismatched environment. That doesn't happen when you are somewhere you feel comfortable at, or meant to be. Better compatibility, better health, this is what Socionics also states. Not everything that goes wrong has to be pathologized and needs expensive (!) professional counseling when you're just not living life in the right surroundings. I'd like to see him in a social circle where he really resonates. If anything, the account tells us about where he would fit in the best. If therapy is recommended, the feeling of alienation will likely just grow while someone else profits.

Yeah I don't see why they have to see a therapist. The problem isn't always YOU. Sometimes, it's other people.

[Adam Strange]

Your GF’s family sounds like it is very different from your family. This happens. It happened to me when I met my ex-wife’s family. They had different customs and different ways of doing things, and I had to adapt myself to them to some degree. Some of their behaviors were better than those in my own extended family and some of them were worse. I began by hanging back and not joining in until I had a better understanding of that family’s dynamics.

HOWEVER, throughout this long and sometimes painful process, I always had the absolute support of my GF, later to be my wife. She always took my side over that of her family. Likewise, when I introduced her to my family, I always supported her 100% over my family. We stood together publicly always, and against everyone else when necessary. When she thought I could have done something better, we discussed it privately later. Not once in our entire marriage did she ever tell me “Fuck you”, nor did I ever say that to her.

Your GF and/or your wife needs to be your friend. Friendship is built on mutual trust and respect. Telling someone “Fuck you” is not the act of someone who is respects you or is a friend. She is siding with her family against you and is publicly disrespecting you. This won’t change in your lifetime.

Get a new girl friend.

[Hope]

Thats Fe PoLR, I've experienced the same over and over and over...except the tunning out (and therefore ppl yelling at me stuff), I'm always in the situation...except when ppl really start talking for too long till the point I just start thinking in other stuff but still looking at them or pretending to be listening (usually when they start repeating themselves), then the obligatory question brings me down: 'what do you think?'

If I missed something, I've to ask questions about the topic to get the info I missed when they just started rambling.

Anyway, yes, the part of feeling out of place or simply not fitting in into groups of strangers having fun, not feeling part of them, not caring, being an outsider, wanting to leave or go home, not knowing how to join ever to a group chat etc etc, thats why I literally hate parties with strangers, if they value Fe its worst and I do feel reeeally uncomfortable in the situation...what I usually do to feeling less out of place is simply a) not assisting or leaving quickly b) trying to remove from the group focusing or getting the attention of my friend or partner. Usually or normally, you should be able to bond with Fi valuers and they won't have so negative perception of you as person.

However there always be ppl that perceive your 1DFe so they will judge you, you cant do anything to get them stop doing it, if they are extroverts be sure at some point or another you'll know they dont like you anymore (usually they say this to another person, aka mutual friend), I suggest accepting yourself, accepting it or trying to remove from those situations quickly.

The 'you seem like not caring about...' is a must. Honestly I often do not. So I dont have a problem with it unless someone start reprimanding me about how my careless and lax asocial attitude affects others/ work etc etc, (usually ethicals) - sigh.

[niffer]

Your GF and/or your wife needs to be your friend. Friendship is built on mutual trust and respect. Telling someone “Fuck you” is not the act of someone who is respects you or is a friend. She is siding with her family against you and is publicly disrespecting you. This won’t change in your lifetime.

This. @OP if you can't feel like you can talk to your GF about this issue you feel you're having and she can help you to grow or to coexist better in her own family and in life, then it's sort of just a dead-end shallow relationship.

Weirdly enough I can relate to being spacey and I've had people get upset at me over it too. But if someone were to treat me disrespectfully over it, I would happily get up and leave.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Too fast, careful there. It might just be a mismatched environment. That doesn't happen when you are somewhere you feel comfortable at, or meant to be. Better compatibility, better health (feeling ""normal""), this is what Socionics also states. Not everything that goes wrong has to be pathologized and needs expensive (!) professional counseling when you're just not living life in the right surroundings. I'd like to see him in a social circle where he really resonates. If anything, the account tells us about where he would fit in the best. If therapy is recommended, the feeling of alienation will likely just grow while someone else profits.

did not want to imply the existence of any pathology.actually, i prefer talking in terms of trauma over pathologizing. i don't see myself as a crusader but then again i believe that it's very important to have trauma under our radar and find sober ways to take control over our life, understand what being one's own person means, and relate to other people. also, counseling is not always expensive. self-help can also do the trick if one can get a good starting point. I've just browsed through Ryene's threads and he appears to have stress factors in the family, at work, with his gf. Did not do any deep reading but will most likely do, if I have to. Well,not sure actually.

[Olimpia]

It seems like your gf has a problem with your natural way of being, including her family.

I agree with Adam that her way of publicly disrespecting you like that is a no go.

You could seek out a conversation with her where you tell her your point of view and what was going through your mind, just to give her the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to check herself and re-evaluate her behaviour.

Having said that, it is unlikely going to help. She seems to not really care about you, nor like your personality... (This is the real issue here, imo. Actually seems to be ITR-related to an extent.)
You most likely will have to part ways.

[FDG]

Do you have these problems with other people in your life?

[Adam Strange]

Find a better family. Make one, if necessary.

[falsehope]

Maybe try this:
https://psychology-tools.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/

[Tonatiuh]

I've seen this in young ILIs. The cure is to finish your studies, work or maybe go to the army. After that they become more connected to reality.

I wouldnt focus too much on this problem. Instead just do what you have to do, and things will change.

+1

Also, ignore people whose only advice is therapy.

.

How old are you anyway, man?

[Tonatiuh]

I'm a 22 years old college dropout who wasted 3 years trying to figure out what he wanted from life.

Sounds like me, but I dropped out of school before I went on and got my college degrees.

Don't be so critical of yourself, grow more spine and cultivate a goal oriented attitude. Good things will follow naturally.

Or like Tallmo said, join the military it does wonders for ILI's, of one has enough spine that is..

[whodat]

Because you are not a man yet you can’t let go of your self consciousness, self dialogue, which controls your behaviour. You are trying to hold it together and in doing that you are going against yourself. You can’t see that you are just shy and nervous and their pushing you for engagement made you even more shy and nervous, so you tried to cope by appearing to zone out, even though you remained doubly engadged inside your mind.

I’ve had the same problem over the years when put into a new chaotic setting.

Every piece of advice from each person so far in this thread has merit.

A lot of what you are learning is that you need to unlearn things as well. Your Father was disapproving? In what real-time ways did you disapprove of your gfs family, disapprove of yourself, told yourself you could not be there in a proper capacity? Did what they say or do to you feel like they were disapproving of you? Did you feel judged?

You keep failing because you keep trying to be something. Or your gut is telling you you dont really like them. Maybe you could learn to like them, in my exp I got burned hard and fast.

You and I are similar people so, its easy for me to jump into your shoes.

[Tonatiuh]

I passed the test to join the marine as an officer, but the physical tests are in september if I recall correctly. I also will try the tests to become a prison officer soon. It's pretty difficult to join the military forces in my country, so I don't know if I'll be able to join them. But it's ok. I got a plan now.

Some people think of solutions when they encounter problems, some people think of problems when they see opportunity. It's just a matter of deciding which category you want to fit into.

Glad to hear you have a plan.

[falsehope]

Your score was 25 out of a possible 50.

Scores in the 0-25 range indicate little or no Autistic traits.

That is relatively high. I have scored myself 8. What you describe is something close to autism, it may not be super-strong but strong enough to make you awkward in social situations. You would score 1 point more and it would already said that it's high, so you didn't score low. It would be good to educate yourself in what mild autism is.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think if you want to know what it really is just read Kanner's and Aspergers' original articles. Real case studies with careful attention to individuals.

Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact
http://simonsfoundation.s3.amazonaws...ve-contact.pdf
Autistic Psychopathy in childhood
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...ZhZjE3ZGRhZGVk

I have met very "real cases" just like in articles above. They just stand out.

[Delilah]

You are focusing a lot on these 2 episodes that took place and getting yourself stressed out about it. It does seem like you are slightly disconnected from the world around you, like finding it strange that the family people would talk for hours about their shared experiences. It is in fact very common in families for the conversations to lean towards those subjects, both in mine and my ex's family it was super common. Sounds like you fear rejection too. Hmm.

If it doesn't happen in other environments, maybe it's just this one environment?

Also it sounds a little dramatic on your girlfriend's part to make such a big deal out of your seeming absent-mindedness.

Maybe you feel accepted by your personal friends and you can focus your attention there instead(?), like spend more time with them and you will (likely) feel more accepted still and have better self-esteem about social situations.

Imo there is nothing too odd about feeling out of place with another person's family. Families create strange dynamics noticeable by an outsider.

[ouronis]

Fuck, I hate people that take forever to get their attention. Just practice that, practice giving a shit, since until they begin speaking, you owe them everything.

The other thing sounds like shit, don't know what to tell you since I'm like that, too. Who gives a shit what other people think? It's mostly just noise. A chore.

[Bertrand]

this is classic Fe Se leverage making you feel deficient. maybe you need to work on this stuff, but do it for you, not because you got strong armed into it, but because you find something about these people worthwhile enough to change over. starting from the assumption you're flawed is not quite right, you could start from the assumption they're flawed. at the end of the day you may modify your behavior anyway, but don't assume you're not doing them a favor or that you owe them this because its solely your problem. its just as much their problem although they want to make the burden to adjust solely yours. perhaps that's how its got to be, but there's no reason to beat yourself up in the meanwhile. this a question over where the rights and duties flow from and they're making you out to be the one who's slipping up. maybe that's true by their values, but its not absolutely true. because its not absolutely true there's no reason to be so hard on yourself, but at the same time I'm not saying there's no impetus to change. the impetus is clear if you want to get along better with these people, but you can dispense with the meat of their disapproval. I know all this because my family made me feel this way non stop most my life then when I got away from them I realized they were the nutso ones and that people liked me just fine the way I am. and I respected these other people's opinion more anyway, not because they approved of me, but because they seemed like legitmately nicer people across every metric, deserving of respect, so I was more than pleased to realize they liked me in return. maybe its all just about finding your niche and no ones right or wrong. perhaps thats it, but it doesn't change that you're not a fool

[FDG]

I have this behaviour, but it doesn't get stressed much by other people. Most of my friends know me since 11 years, so when they see that I'm in my head they tend to let me be.
My work environment allows me to mind my own business, so it doesn't happen there neither. The last time it happened it was with my family (I mean a "party" with uncles, cousins and grandparents). I remember I was trying to be nice and say something sometimes, but it wasn't worth it. The feedback I got was "e fattela una risata" (a salty italian sentence to say I don't laugh sufficiently) from my oldest cousin, who then just turned around to the other people at the table. I always try to prevent participating to family dinners etc. I have problems with being comfortable in such environments, so I just disappeared from my other family members. I never show up to them. And now I'm pretty much forced to deal with a new family. The problem with family is that you have to maintain a decent relationship with them. With friends etc it's different. I feel chained.

From what you say this trait doesnt seem to influence that much your daily functioning (you Can hold a job, have some friends, no criminal record). As others have said, it could then just be a matter of environment.

However not showing up to family events Can be considered bad functioning...maybe just be rude to them when they are rude to you (1d Fi advice, good luck)

[idontgiveaf]

Inferior Se problems i guess. :/
Or low Fe???

Study yourself more. So that you will know how to handle your situation better.

Or break up with your girlfriend. Because imagine living like that for more months/years..

[idontgiveaf]

Well, tbh i had these sort of episodes too.. (when i was depressed)

It suck. But try to get off your head more often (if you're trying to fix yourself) and be more interested on people and ask questions so that you don't get bored and be seemingly like interested. Faking ya know..

Faking works. Good luck.

[Aramas]

It seems like both embarrassing moments came from you not noticing sensory cues in your environment.

Try practicing paying more attention to your senses rather than the thoughts in your head. The problems you're experiencing come from not putting enough energy into your senses and instead being trapped in your thoughts. Once you consciously devote time to your senses, you'll see improvement.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm similiar in RL situations. You are just very introverted. Your brain can't help it, but if you have more awareness of it you can function better. I have a good friend that defends me by saying something like 'Sam doesn't mean to be so weird, he's just incredibly shy and introverted.' Then people will go 'oh' and leave me alone or they will know that to talk to me it will usually be have to be something I care personally about or it's too difficult for me to engage socially. I can try and force myself to be more extroverted but it's hard. It's not natural for me. It feels like forcing a str8 man to have sex with a guy.

Also me and invisiblejim used to make fun of introverts on the forum because being introverted- you are more self-absorbed naturally, and being good socially requires giving. It's just not about you. (I don't mean that as a diss- its not about you which also means THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU!) At that time in your story, everybody was being loud and adding to the group atmosphere. Nobody was 'taking away' anything or being sensitive about anything... that is valued in the world. But introverts reflect and create art that everybody can relate to enjoy on their own personal time.

I also would like to say that from personal experience, therapy [usually] sucks and you don't need it. They will probably just end up making you feel more like shit about yourself than you already do unless you're super lucky and get one you are compatible with. It's too much of a gamble. The last therapist I had read me Bible verses our last session, ugh it was so horrible. No advice, no counseling... just read straight out of a bible to me.

[maniac]

try to adapt the attitude of everyone being on your side, there's no competition. and when there's no competition you don't care about how you look because you arent worried about trying to compete. this is harder said than done but it's something to work towards.
by the way, this kind of person (that gets embarrassed about everything) in most cases have had a family member or someone close to them constantly sizing them up and judging, critiquing them (great recipe for insecurity, fucking heartless people). realise this. because of it, you judge yourself so harshly (and probably project it onto others too) so you believe that everyone is like you and judging you. what you miss is that everyone is extremely self-absorbed, everyone is scared. if you read up on social psychology you will realise this. you have become the extreme end of self-absorbed and you need to remind yourself that you're not that big a deal. for me it helps to remind myself that i'm only alive because of my brain, i mean i tend to think that there's some higher meaning and stuff but really, you exist and have awareness because of the brain. i dont know about you but i think im so fucking important and that im on a life mission and i have extremely high expectations of myself. try to let go of that, at least partly.
another thing that helps me is that, i want to move toward a confidence in life to a point where i don't really give a shit. so i remind myself that when i get there, embarrassing myself right now and making a fool out of myself wont matter at all to future me. because of the high self esteem and the eventual realisation that that is just so silly to care about. you will have sympathy for past you, not regrets and punishing yourself over being embarrassng. come on. good luck to you. i have the same problems and so do many many people. the good thing about being in a 'difficult' situation in life is that it has potential. a potential someone with a 'good life' will not have. you can become stronger and a better person because of this. they dont have this opportunity.
and yep its definitely possible, i know of people who have overcome things like this and you can feel it in them, because they feel really strong and like great people. those are the best people.