Pin the Type on the New Guy

[Sir Knight]

Well, I want to say that I think that Socionics looks like a great tool for self-improvement and self-knowledge, which I can totally dig, but the problem is that, after having taken so many personality tests I've got a pretty good handle on which questions type for which functions, so I can pretty much make myself any type I want to be now.

Which actually might be kind of fun, being someone else, but I'd much rather, like, figure out who I am in this system. I tend to get about the same three types on these tests, but I'd rather not tell you what those are, since, well, I don't want to "color your perception" or anything like that. Mostly because I worry that I may have been consistently typing myself wrong for years and that my real type may be way different than what I usually get.

Anyways, whatever, as to who I am:

My name is Steven, I'm 22 years old, male, 5'11", 138 pounds, with hazel eyes and dishwater blonde hair. I have a deep "radio announcer" voice, and I'm left-handed when it comes to writing and doing fine motor skill stuff, but for pretty much everything else I use my right hand. Also I'm right-eye dominant. Apparently these kinds of things are important for typing.

I make the best cup of coffee in my state (or, at least I like to think that I do), but that doesn't mean won't drink coffee from a restaurant either. Its universally shitty no matter where you get if from, so there is at least a comforting predictability to it. Also, I usually don't swear unless I'm around people who also swear. And this forum fuckin' swears a lot.

I like to drive well in excess of the speed limit whenever I can because it makes me feel good. In fact, slowing down makes me feel kind of anxious. I also like girls with soft skin and blonde hair. I've never, like, been with such a girl. Or any girl, for that matter. I feel like the most presumptuous kind of asshole when I ask a girl, "Hey! Do you want to spend hours sitting in a coffee-shop trading inane bullshit for hours about nothing whatsoever where we both leave knowing nothing about each other?" Who wants to start relationships that will more than likely end later, anyway? I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer here, but it seems that's just how first relationships tend to go. Which makes this kind of an amusing Catch 22 (I have read the book so I feel that entitles me to use the phrase) since if you've never gone through a couple of bad relationships then how will you know what to do when the woman of your dreams comes along? But then, if she's the woman of your dreams, why not wait for her and spare yourself the relationship drama?

Actually, wait, that wasn't a Catch-22 at all, but who cares, this stream of conciousness stuff doesn't lend itself well to proofreading.

Sometimes I read about stuff like this or this or this and it pisses me off so bad I just can't sit down. I have to stand up from my computer chair and pace around my basement and talk to myself. Talking to myself helps me to organize my thoughts and vocalize what I'm feeling. I don't usually talk to other people about this stuff because... I'm not sure, I just don't.

A selection of other things that piss me off:

Litterbugs: You are not a filthy fucking animal and you don't get to just leave your shit where it lies for some other poor bastard to pick up. Throw it in a fucking garbage can you lazy asshole.

People who give overly detailed instructions on how to do really simple tasks: Look, just tell me what I need to do and then get out of my way. If I want your help as to how to do it more efficiently or more effectively, then I'll ask you. Otherwise stop telling me how to work and let me work.

People who correct your grammar in real life: I can get doing this on a message board because you don't have body language or facial expressions to go by and so the written word is all you have but fuck people who do this in real life. I have a really good friend who will correct me every time I have a slip of the tongue or when I trip over my words or when my mouth has, like, a "processing error" when I talk and he'll say, "HAHA YOU SAID THAT WRONG" and I'll say fuck you, you asshole, so I tripped over my words, fuck you, you don't need to call attention to that!

There/their/they're and your/you're and the people who get right up their ass about it: You can't even hear the distinction in real life for fuck's sake. You knew exactly which form I was using not based on how it was spelled but based on how I used it in the sentence, in context. Why the fuck are you correcting me on something you were smart enough to figure out anyway? Why do we even have these words anyway? Why can't we just smoosh them down into one word each and make them all totally context sensitive?! French speakers do that shit all the time with their language and you're telling me we get stymied by this?! God damn!

People who get in the fast lane and don't go fast: Fuck courtesy. I am a corteous guy normally. I am the most polite demure guy you know normally. But not when this happens. No. NO. If you are going to get in the fast lane, go fast. If someone is in the fast lane behind you and wants to go faster than you, then speed up or gracefully bow out of the fast lane and allow him to pass. Don't make me ride your tailgate to get you to leave because I SO fucking will. I won't honk. Honking is just rude. But I will ride you like a filthy French hooker if you aren't going as fast as I want to be.

Oh, and on friends: I have two. There are a great many people who consider me their friend but whose friendship I don't reciprocate because... I dunno. As one of the women who has dated me before has said, "I am a person of many walls."

Friend #1: The guy who corrects my speech slurs. He's going to college to study acting and he's pretty adventurous: he's migrated all around the world when he was young since his family moved around a lot, and he's gone on study abroad trips to London and Bulgaria. Despite his willingness to go far far away from friends and family to parts unknown at the drop of a hat, he's remarkably unwilling to just go out into the world and find real paying acting work. He wants to finish college first, he says. Also he is twice my size, drinks me under the table (but prefers to teetotal) and likes comic books and the movie Cemetary Man. He almost never talks if you don't directly address him, and even then he's more inclined to just answer you in a kind of monosyllabic monotone. HE even does this about stuff he's supposedly interested in or legitimately enjoyed. You really have to twist his arm, so to speak, to get him to talk in paragraphs. I was introduced to him in acting class, where I was told that he was from Australia. He is actually American, and I was disappointed and relived that he didn't have an Australian accent.

Friend #2: The exact social opposite of Friend #1. I've had whole conversations with the man where my only contribution was to ask him to clarify something or what he thought about something. His favorite topics of conversation are Magic the Gathering and the strategies involved therein, his latest sexual conquests, his job and the drama contained therein, and the finer qualities of various draft beers. He is also twice my size and can also drink me under the table. He is currently dating a pre-op transsexual. He has no qualms whatsoever about the fact that his girlfriend has a penis. I find his complete lack of shame in telling me about these things to be fucking hilarious. He's studying to be a corporate lawyer, which suits him (pardon the pun), but his secret desire is to teach history. Which is funny because he likes to joke about pedophilia. We were introduced in a high school civics class, where he showed me a painted wizard miniature.

Dad: Total workaholic. Gets up in the morning, goes to his job as a dermatologist, sees fifty patients a day, gets home, throws his levis on and then works in the yard, or cooks, or goes up to work on his tree farm, or writes journals for any of the half dozen medical societies he's a part of. The man hardly even sleeps at night. I don't know how he does. Just nothing but energy inside of this man. He used to have lots of hobbies, most of which involed carpentry, but he's trying to get rid of all that now and simplify his life in preparation for a much deserved retirement.

Mom: Also a workaholic. Gets up at five in the morning to go to work as the manager of the trauma program of a new hospital downtown. Used to be an emergency room nurse. Got really freaked out by eyes. Of all the things to be freaked out about, she got squeamish whenever there were eye injuries. She comes home and cleans inside, or cooks, or writes papers to be published for medical journals, and then maybe reads a book for a few hours before going to bed. Thinks that I'm a great writer and actor but that I'm wasting my talents by playing computer games all the time. Likes the fact that I'm trying to take more financial responsibility though. Wants me to find my motivation and finally graduate college.

Sister: Loves money. Loves money. Can't get enough money. She likes to make money and she likes to spend money. She's even told me that she wouldn't care how shitty and awful her job is, she would still do it if the money were good. She is almost never at home. She usually only comes home to sleep before going to work or to school or to hang out with friends. Supposedly hates getting drunk while still managing to drink most of the alcohol in the house. Thinks I'm a weird shut-in who needs to get out more. Maybe she's right.

As to college, I'm on my... let's say my thirteenth career choice now, journalism. I'm not liking most of the classes but I've resolved to just get it over with and get my degree and then get as far away from organized education as possible. I don't even really have any desire to be a journalist, it just seemed "kinda cool" when I was looking at career options. If you aren't in college yet, allow me to tell you that going in without a plan is a spectacularly bad idea and that floundering around between majors is a great way to induce extreme nihilistic anger at life within yourself.

Is "existential angst" a cliche, now?

Whatever, I hope this exercise gives you plenty of material to pick at my brain with. I'm hoping this is the only Type Me thread I ever have to make. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are hoping the same thing.

Anyway, ask me whatever questions you feel like asking. I'm keeping as open a mind as I can about this.

[Galen]

5'11", 138 pounds

jesus christ gain some weight D:

Also welcome! I'd tentatively say Se/Ni valuing just because you sound so angry haha. INFp seems marginally possible atm, but I'm no good at typing through words. Any pictures for the lazy VIers?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

My name is Steven, I'm 22 years old, male, 5'11", 138 pounds, with hazel eyes and dishwater blonde hair. I have a deep "radio announcer" voice, and I'm left-handed when it comes to writing and doing fine motor skill stuff, but for pretty much everything else I use my right hand. Also I'm right-eye dominant. Apparently these kinds of things are important for typing.

And you have some growing up to do. The first thing you should realize is there's nothing shameful about being transgendered.

He is currently dating a pre-op transsexual. He has no qualms whatsoever about the fact that his girlfriend has a penis. I find his complete lack of shame in telling me about these things to be fucking hilarious.

Again, there's nothing shameful or wrong with wanting to date a transgender. What the hell is wrong with you? Yes, I'm being an annoying GLBT activist like I always am but seriously. All people like to gossip about their relationships, it's normal and healthy.

People who get in the fast lane and don't go fast: Fuck courtesy. I am a corteous guy normally. I am the most polite demure guy you know normally. But not when this happens. No. NO. If you are going to get in the fast lane, go fast.

Stop fronting. Like most young men you are insecure about your emotionality and your inner homo and your sensitivity and you like to bully others who are this way. Grow up.

Litterbugs: You are not a filthy fucking animal and you don't get to just leave your shit where it lies for some other poor bastard to pick up. Throw it in a fucking garbage can you lazy asshole.

Actually, human beings ARE filthy fucking animals, and maybe if you realized this you wouldn't feel morally superior and 'icky' about innate, animalistic sensitivity and gay feelings. I'm really not trying to chasten you here, but trying to educate you. Human beings are animals like anything else. We're not a special 'higher species' separate from other beings. But, with that said, I agree with you, being clean is important.

People who give overly detailed instructions on how to do really simple tasks: Look, just tell me what I need to do and then get out of my way. If I want your help as to how to do it more efficiently or more effectively, then I'll ask you. Otherwise stop telling me how to work and let me work.

True, but the devil is in the details. Or god is in the details. Point is, it's very easy to fuck up by missing a minor detail or an important objective, rational fact. When you put a bow on things you fuck this is up and end up not being able to accomplish anything.

People who get in the fast lane and don't go fast: Fuck courtesy. I am a corteous guy normally. I am the most polite demure guy you know normally. But not when this happens. No. NO. If you are going to get in the fast lane, go fast. If someone is in the fast lane behind you and wants to go faster than you, then speed up or gracefully bow out of the fast lane and allow him to pass. Don't make me ride your tailgate to get you to leave because I SO fucking will. I won't honk. Honking is just rude. But I will ride you like a filthy French hooker if you aren't going as fast as I want to be.

That's even ruder. You need to chill out and stop acting like a typical young male fucktard.

More to come. It's fun trying to make bad boys into better people.

[Wynch]

wtf? Sam, seriously. Why do you project on people so much? Is this really necessary. In the first quote, I don't know how you can possibly construe it as being transgendered or being insecure about being transgendered. It actually makes me wonder if you know what the word transgender means.

Second, I don't think a guy who refers to himself as "demure" is too worried about channeling his inner sensitivity.

Third, some of the things you're ranting to him about are things that he feels are important parts of who he is and how he interacts with people (to shed light on his personality type). Now, if he wrote an entire post "channeling his inner gay" or being a "better person" then he would be posing and would reveal nothing at all interesting about his type.

Fun fact: I consider myself to be a good person and not a "bad girl" type at all. However, I completely agree with some of the sentiments here. When people litter, my thought is "There are tons of garbage cans around the city, save you trash for 3 meters and put it where it belongs". I don't go as far as to say they're a filthy animal, but I do tend to think pretty poorly of those people. Expressing anger at people who dirty up your home because they're too lazy to keep their garbage until they get to a garbage can is not a commentary about sensitive or gay feelings. Calling those people animals is also not a commentary about sensitive or gay feelings. Unless you want to argue that the filthy animals who won't put their garbage in a garbage can are universally sensitive gay people.

Similarly with the driving. I don't drive myself, but when I'm a passenger in a car and the people in the fast lane refuse to switch lanes to yeild to faster-moving traffic, it also annoys the shit out of me. That defeats the purpose of the fast lane. Tailgating isn't really the best response (dangerous really, because if the driver in front of you is already driving like an ass hat, odds are good they'll respond to danger like an ass hat too), but it's hardly something to go on a rant about.

You really love to point this homophobe finger at a lot of people, BnD, which is kind of hypocritical for someone who is telling a guy to stop being morally superior.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Oh, and on friends: I have two. There are a great many people who consider me their friend but whose friendship I don't reciprocate because... I dunno. As one of the women who has dated me before has said, "I am a person of many walls."

Yeah, you don't want to get close to people for fear of being weak and faggy. It's much more faggy and weak to avoid them altogether, trust me. You have typical asshole male distant issues. You need to just lighten up and let that bullshit go, mr. tough guy. And just make sure you're really connecting, none of that creepy fake mama's boy narcissistic crap that guys pull.

As for your friends, it's good that you have friends. I don't know what else to say and I already chastized you for your anti-transgender ness, and btw please don't try to cover that up with 'oh I was just joking relax man don't take offense, don't be weak hee hee.' That's bullshit, comedy is always based on truth, and it's also connected to your beliefs that you think humans are 'more than animals' which is the innate basis of all homophobia, war, misguided dogoonerness (as opposed to true dogooderness), misogyny and evil in society! (WHEW) I had to lay it into your 21-year-old straight male asshole hard, didn't I?

Okay now for your parents. You have both an overbearing mother AND an overbearing father, which makes sense given the way that you personally act. Because deep down you're a sensitive, nice guy - but you're also neurotic because you feel shameful about that. That would make sense given that you have *both* an overbearing mom and father. If you had a distant father and overbearing mom (like me), you would be a lot more compassionate about what you said about transgendered people, and you wouldn't act so generally angry in your demeanor. Or if you had an overbearing father and distant mom, you wouldn't really have so much emotionality in your posts and would be so rational and objective it would be boring.

Your sister is also a fake judgmental bitch, who is not being supportive or caring about you at all. I also have a sister kinda like that, and we don't get along that well. You desperately need genuine empathy and support in real life, and so you gotta settle for finding it for people online. Understandable though.

Whatever, I hope this exercise gives you plenty of material to pick at my brain with. I'm hoping this is the only Type Me thread I ever have to make. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are hoping the same thing.

You were ignored and emotionally bullied by an abusive family who cared about fake social status and FAKE middle class image and FAKE ass money and FAKE FAKE FAKE suburban 'niceness' over realness. You have a good heart, and you're really so much better than they are. I would just tell your family to go fuck themselves as much as possible and work on being as independent as you can be, to find your true family who actually gives a shit about you. Blood bonds are myths.

[Wynch]

Regarding the actual topic, my initial thought was perhaps ISFj, though I could easily see either of the INXps as well.

Generally, I agree with Galen that I get the impression of an Se/Ni valuer. I feel like the amount of respect that you have for your hard-working, nose-to-the-grind parents is a more Te-valuing sensibility, but that could just as easily be a certain amount of supervisor-respect as well.

Overall, initial impressions are Introverted Se/Ni-valuer, but that's a pretty superficial assessment. It would nice to see how you participate around the forum, interact with other types, to get a better idea of who you are and how you think

EDIT: I should be a little more specific about the respect thing. Respecting your hard-working parents isn't what's particularly Te-ish. It's that you think to point that out and make it the focal point of discussion about your parents that is notable.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Now, if he wrote an entire post "channeling his inner gay" or being a "better person" then he would be posing and would reveal nothing at all interesting about his type.

Too you maybe, but I would find that entertaining as hell. Are you trying to insult me or something by impling that I'm posing? You don't even know me. Also stop being stuck-up. And I'm not projecting, I'm accurately seeing into his psyche.

You really love to point this homophobe finger at a lot of people, BnD, which is kind of hypocritical for someone who is telling a guy to stop being morally superior.

Yeah well, you take acting like a smug, intellectual college feminist bitch way too far. Two can play that game. It's just my personality quirk.

And ugh, forget the ****** thing for a second. The guy has serious anger issues. He really rides people in traffic cause they go slow? Why are you defending him? He needs to be taught better manners, we're not helping him accepting his antiscocial behaviors.

I don't care if people are driving slow. You don't drive fast to piss them off even more. You're such a narcissist that lacks empathy at times. They're driving slow because they're afraid. have some compassion and ignore them.

[squark]

One of the few typing threads I've read almost all the way through (skipped friend 1.) Don't know what Bullets is going on about. Guess, I'm a typical male distant asshole too, except I'm not male, lol. And I don't see where people are picking up anger from your post. I get pissed at the lazy slobs who throw trash on the ground, and spaced-out inconsiderate drivers too. You can write. Compelling enough that I'm actually interested in hearing more about you. Most self-descriptions are a stiff front, separated from the person they're describing. You managed not to do that much at all. Witholding judgement on a type though, for the time being.

[Galen]

If nothing else, these two parts seem very Te-devaluing to me.

People who give overly detailed instructions on how to do really simple tasks: Look, just tell me what I need to do and then get out of my way. If I want your help as to how to do it more efficiently or more effectively, then I'll ask you. Otherwise stop telling me how to work and let me work.

People who correct your grammar in real life: I can get doing this on a message board because you don't have body language or facial expressions to go by and so the written word is all you have but fuck people who do this in real life. I have a really good friend who will correct me every time I have a slip of the tongue or when I trip over my words or when my mouth has, like, a "processing error" when I talk and he'll say, "HAHA YOU SAID THAT WRONG" and I'll say fuck you, you asshole, so I tripped over my words, fuck you, you don't need to call attention to that!

The first one seems like a common complaint about Te from Fe valuers, that they expect too much out of how something is done, which seems to be something that Fe egos don't pay much heed to. The second one reminds me of something that I think silverchris said a while ago, about the "so what if I can't do anything right, why does this one mistake matter?" mentality of Fe egos against Te people. It's like a difference between external and internal (Te and Fe respectively), where Fe valuers can't really pay heed to the intricacies of external or physically present steps or processes that things undergo, and vice versa with Te valuers.

If that made any sense

[Wynch]

That's certainly fair, Galen. Not sure I agree so much about the grammar thing, but the "just tell me the what, not the how" of doing seems to make sense as Te-devaluing.

[Galen]

That's certainly fair, Galen. Not sure I agree so much about the grammar thing, but the "just tell me the what, not the how" of doing seems to make sense as Te-devaluing.

Yeah, that's pretty what I was getting at. The grammar thing just reminded me a lot of that one post by silverchris. I'll see if I can find it again for reference.

EDIT: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/686920-post43.html

[Bardia]

I think IEI sounds like a good fit based off of what you have written. EIE might also be possible.

Too you maybe, but I would find that entertaining as hell. Are you trying to insult me or something by impling that I'm posing? You don't even know me. Also stop being stuck-up. And I'm not projecting, I'm accurately seeing into his psyche.

Yeah well, you take acting like a smug, intellectual college feminist bitch way too far. Two can play that game. It's just my personality quirk.

And ugh, forget the ****** thing for a second. The guy has serious anger issues. He really rides people in traffic cause they go slow? Why are you defending him? He needs to be taught better manners, we're not helping him accepting his antiscocial behaviors.

I don't care if people are driving slow. You don't drive fast to piss them off even more. You're such a narcissist that lacks empathy at times. They're driving slow because they're afraid. have some compassion and ignore them.

I don't you think you realize how often you get up on your moral soap box to bash people based on motivations that you project onto them. Plenty of people get annoyed when others drive slow, especially in the fast lane. That's not severe anger issues.

Vero is hardly a smug, intellectual bitch or a narcissist lacking empathy. She, like myself, is probably just tired of seeing so many of your unnecessary rants and wants to call you out on it. You just don't like being called out and therefore need to call her names. Grow up.

[DirectorAbbie]

People who correct your grammar in real life

This is me. I correct my IEE dad when he uses an adjective in place of an adverb or talks in second person. I correct my SLI mom, then we discuss grammar. I've trained my brothers to not need correction often. About the their/there/they're thing, a couple times just for fun when I'm talking to someone I'll insist they spelled a word wrong or used the wrong form of their.

You strike me as a rational, then as a merry, then as an introvert, then as an irrational.

[Suz]

If nothing else, these two parts seem very Te-devaluing to me.


The first one seems like a common complaint about Te from Fe valuers, that they expect too much out of how something is done, which seems to be something that Fe egos don't pay much heed to. The second one reminds me of something that I think silverchris said a while ago, about the "so what if I can't do anything right, why does this one mistake matter?" mentality of Fe egos against Te people. It's like a difference between external and internal (Te and Fe respectively), where Fe valuers can't really pay heed to the intricacies of external or physically present steps or processes that things undergo, and vice versa with Te valuers.

If that made any sense

I also thought Ti-valuing, possibly even Ti-ego from the garbage pet peeve and the fast lane pet peeve. I kind of appreciated some Si-value in him though, no? And Ne? (his 13th choice of major). I'm thinking LII, maybe.

btw, Sir Knight, you do realize that if you rear end the car going "slow" in the fast lane, YOU will be the one found at fault? I that fact, because MY pet peeve are the tailgaters (especially when i'm going 75 mph already!!) In fact, I will slow down on purpose if you tailgate me.

If the car's not going fast enough for you, just pass them. I NEVER tailgate people.

[Sir Knight]

My guess is INFp.

Such certainty! And an Albert Camus quote in the signature! Would it be too much trouble to ask you why?

Galen's posts

Yeah, I'm working on the weight thing. I go to the gym five days a week (or, at least, I try to, life seems to get in the way a lot) and I'm really liking it. Seeing your body get visibly stronger is pretty cool and whenever I get into a funk I can just point to that and say, "Well you earned those muscles didn't you? What're you saying you're good for nothing?"

Also, on Se/Ni valuing, that means they're in my Ego or Super-Id blocks, right? And Super-Ego and Id are the ones I devalue? I can definetely get valuing, is probably my favorite comedian, and, if I have my functions right, he has a very style. I still don't have a solid definition as to what is. Memory and predictions and flows of events and the like. Dynamic and gives one a sense of laziness and a predisposition towards nihilism? Is any of that correct?

Also, yeah, I feel that if one or two mistakes make their way into a conversation, then why should one get all worked up over it? They knew what I was saying well enough to not only understand me, but understand me well enough to correct me. So, if they already understood what I was saying, why go to the length of correcting something that was already working?

BulletsandDoves posts

Goodness! But such harsh invective! I've been lurking around the forum for a few weeks though, and I've noticed you tend to make these kinds of posts, so it didn't really surprise me though. I actually find it kind of endearing that you find me worthy of so many posts worth of passionate fury! To address your main concerns:

1) I have nothing whatsoever against my friend's pre-op transsexual girlfriend. I haven't actually met her yet, but from what my friend tells me of her she's just a normal girl with really nerdy interests (which is fine, because he has exactly the same interests) and an optimistic outlook on life who just so happens to have been born in a man's body. Last I heard she was getting her name legally changed and looking into the $30,000 operation that it will take to complete her journey towards womandom.

2) I don't have anger issues. The point of the exercise here was to type as much as possible as quickly as possibly, essentially putting down whatever thoughts bubbled up to the surface from my subconscious and personality and just putting it down. Essentially, stream of consciousness. So, it may be that I'm repressing a lot of anger that has just now come up, but it doesn't affect me in daily life. I have pretty good outlets for these kinds of things.

squark's post

Aw, you write something like this and you give me hope that maybe I could actually be a writer. I like writing short stories and the occasional poem but the idea of making a whole novel is kind of terrifying. How do you fill three-hundred pages and have none of it feel like you've wasted the reader's time? Intimidating, to be sure.

For authors I really enjoy Kurt Vonnegut and Terry Pratchett. Kurt does melancholy really, and Pratchett just knows how to write characters you can help but love.

Vero's posts

Yeah, I can see what you mean about Te-valuing. Its because of their hard work that I'm able to sit here and type lengthy paragraphs about myself. Were they to kick me out of their house right now and take everything they own away from me (which, of course, they wouldn't, but, you know, hypothetically) then I'd have maybe a few hundred bucks to my name, a couple of pairs of clothes, and my laptop. I take it for granted a lot of the time, but I really am spoiled and blessed to have them.

I just don't know if I could live like them, though. Working nine hour days and then going to school and doing all the homework... I'd be an empty, burnt-out husk before long working that hard all the time, every week. I realize I can't live the easy life in my parents' house forever, and my current goal is to move out into an apartment and start out on my own, but sometimes the amount of effort that its going to take to get there just overwhelms me.

Director Abbie's post

Its ok. With Friend #1 its like his most basic and natural reaction to any of my verbal missteps. I give him a lot of shit for this, and I guess I come down on him a lot in my description of him, but he's a good friend nonetheless. So I'm totally ok with you doing it, is what I'm saying.

WorkaholicsAnon's post

I know. Its not as if I'm so close to them I can breath their exhaust, I get just close enough that I can still see around them in case some obstruction presents itself and so that my car looms large in their rearview. I try to just go around them if the right lane is free, but there are just those times where the guys in the right are going just as slow as the guy in my lane and so it wouldn't do me any good to switch lanes anyway. Most people here are really good about letting faster drivers pass, but sometimes... eh. Its just pet peeve of mine. Its like, just let me enjoy the five minutes I have on this freeway to go as fast as I want, and then I'll drive like a sane person.

[Skeptic]

I think I'll steal crazed rat's method of answering these quotes. Is much easier.

Well, I want to say that I think that Socionics looks like a great tool for self-improvement and self-knowledge, which I can totally dig, but the problem is that, after having taken so many personality tests I've got a pretty good handle on which questions type for which functions, so I can pretty much make myself any type I want to be now.

Yeah, good tests should really factor in your knowledge too. There are no good tests.

Which actually might be kind of fun, being someone else, but I'd much rather, like, figure out who I am in this system. I tend to get about the same three types on these tests, but I'd rather not tell you what those are, since, well, I don't want to "color your perception" or anything like that. Mostly because I worry that I may have been consistently typing myself wrong for years and that my real type may be way different than what I usually get.

indecisive or unsure you are

Anyways, whatever, as to who I am:

My name is Steven, I'm 22 years old, male, 5'11", 138 pounds, with hazel eyes and dishwater blonde hair. I have a deep "radio announcer" voice, and I'm left-handed when it comes to writing and doing fine motor skill stuff, but for pretty much everything else I use my right hand. Also I'm right-eye dominant. Apparently these kinds of things are important for typing.

If anyone asks for this information to type you I recommend you pay little attention to their opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I make the best cup of coffee in my state (or, at least I like to think that I do), but that doesn't mean won't drink coffee from a restaurant either. Its universally shitty no matter where you get if from, so there is at least a comforting predictability to it. Also, I usually don't swear unless I'm around people who also swear. And this forum fuckin' swears a lot.

Have you a fine taste in other foods? I'm sure you know what I'm asking about, but as a less obvious extention of that do you find it easy to provide incentives to motivate others? Senses that generally make them feel gud?

I like to drive well in excess of the speed limit whenever I can because it makes me feel good. In fact, slowing down makes me feel kind of anxious. I also like girls with soft skin and blonde hair. I've never, like, been with such a girl. Or any girl, for that matter. I feel like the most presumptuous kind of asshole when I ask a girl, "Hey! Do you want to spend hours sitting in a coffee-shop trading inane bullshit for hours about nothing whatsoever where we both leave knowing nothing about each other?" Who wants to start relationships that will more than likely end later, anyway? I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer here, but it seems that's just how first relationships tend to go. Which makes this kind of an amusing Catch 22 (I have read the book so I feel that entitles me to use the phrase) since if you've never gone through a couple of bad relationships then how will you know what to do when the woman of your dreams comes along? But then, if she's the woman of your dreams, why not wait for her and spare yourself the relationship drama?

the last part of this paragraph makes me think of an interaction between Ne and Ti. Even though you're discussing 'downer' material here, writing it off as problematic Fe does not seem right to me.

Actually, wait, that wasn't a Catch-22 at all, but who cares, this stream of conciousness stuff doesn't lend itself well to proofreading.

ahaha, this strikes me as Ti because you recognized the lack of a catch-22 in your own writing. However, you inserted it in the first place, so that might describe a lack of Ti haha

Sometimes I read about stuff like this or this or this and it pisses me off so bad I just can't sit down. I have to stand up from my computer chair and pace around my basement and talk to myself. Talking to myself helps me to organize my thoughts and vocalize what I'm feeling. I don't usually talk to other people about this stuff because... I'm not sure, I just don't.

Intuitive? You've got me here. Yeah I talk to myself to organize my thoughts too, but what I really recommend is recording yourself and listening to the recording! Okay back to socionics

A selection of other things that piss me off:

Litterbugs: You are not a filthy fucking animal and you don't get to just leave your shit where it lies for some other poor bastard to pick up. Throw it in a fucking garbage can you lazy asshole.

Lol. I could call this Ti rules, Se confrontation and Si aesthetic necessity all at once. Too general.

People who give overly detailed instructions on how to do really simple tasks: Look, just tell me what I need to do and then get out of my way. If I want your help as to how to do it more efficiently or more effectively, then I'll ask you. Otherwise stop telling me how to work and let me work.

I think you know what function you are describing here so I'll discount it ~ :>

People who correct your grammar in real life: I can get doing this on a message board because you don't have body language or facial expressions to go by and so the written word is all you have but fuck people who do this in real life. I have a really good friend who will correct me every time I have a slip of the tongue or when I trip over my words or when my mouth has, like, a "processing error" when I talk and he'll say, "HAHA YOU SAID THAT WRONG" and I'll say fuck you, you asshole, so I tripped over my words, fuck you, you don't need to call attention to that!

I don't think we pegged what function grammar nazis exemplify just yet. I recall a lot of inconclusive debate on that earlier..

There/their/they're and your/you're and the people who get right up their ass about it: You can't even hear the distinction in real life for fuck's sake. You knew exactly which form I was using not based on how it was spelled but based on how I used it in the sentence, in context. Why the fuck are you correcting me on something you were smart enough to figure out anyway? Why do we even have these words anyway? Why can't we just smoosh them down into one word each and make them all totally context sensitive?! French speakers do that shit all the time with their language and you're telling me we get stymied by this?! God damn!

Mayyyybe Ne because of all the considerations

People who get in the fast lane and don't go fast: Fuck courtesy. I am a corteous guy normally. I am the most polite demure guy you know normally. But not when this happens. No. NO. If you are going to get in the fast lane, go fast. If someone is in the fast lane behind you and wants to go faster than you, then speed up or gracefully bow out of the fast lane and allow him to pass. Don't make me ride your tailgate to get you to leave because I SO fucking will. I won't honk. Honking is just rude. But I will ride you like a filthy French hooker if you aren't going as fast as I want to be.

if-then-because statements here. Makes me think Ti.

Oh, and on friends: I have two. There are a great many people who consider me their friend but whose friendship I don't reciprocate because... I dunno. As one of the women who has dated me before has said, "I am a person of many walls."

Many walls? Care to explain further?

------------------------------------------------------------

Friend #1: The guy who corrects my speech slurs. He's going to college to study acting and he's pretty adventurous: he's migrated all around the world when he was young since his family moved around a lot, and he's gone on study abroad trips to London and Bulgaria. Despite his willingness to go far far away from friends and family to parts unknown at the drop of a hat, he's remarkably unwilling to just go out into the world and find real paying acting work. He wants to finish college first, he says. Also he is twice my size, drinks me under the table (but prefers to teetotal) and likes comic books and the movie Cemetary Man. He almost never talks if you don't directly address him, and even then he's more inclined to just answer you in a kind of monosyllabic monotone. HE even does this about stuff he's supposedly interested in or legitimately enjoyed. You really have to twist his arm, so to speak, to get him to talk in paragraphs. I was introduced to him in acting class, where I was told that he was from Australia. He is actually American, and I was disappointed and relived that he didn't have an Australian accent.

yeah I know the kind of guy you know

Friend #2: The exact social opposite of Friend #1. I've had whole conversations with the man where my only contribution was to ask him to clarify something or what he thought about something. His favorite topics of conversation are Magic the Gathering and the strategies involved therein, his latest sexual conquests, his job and the drama contained therein, and the finer qualities of various draft beers. He is also twice my size and can also drink me under the table. He is currently dating a pre-op transsexual. He has no qualms whatsoever about the fact that his girlfriend has a penis. I find his complete lack of shame in telling me about these things to be fucking hilarious. He's studying to be a corporate lawyer, which suits him (pardon the pun), but his secret desire is to teach history. Which is funny because he likes to joke about pedophilia. We were introduced in a high school civics class, where he showed me a painted wizard miniature.

sounds like an SLE. You guys might be sharing Fi super ego humor.

Dad: Total workaholic. Gets up in the morning, goes to his job as a dermatologist, sees fifty patients a day, gets home, throws his levis on and then works in the yard, or cooks, or goes up to work on his tree farm, or writes journals for any of the half dozen medical societies he's a part of. The man hardly even sleeps at night. I don't know how he does. Just nothing but energy inside of this man. He used to have lots of hobbies, most of which involed carpentry, but he's trying to get rid of all that now and simplify his life in preparation for a much deserved retirement.

mmmmm

Mom: Also a workaholic. Gets up at five in the morning to go to work as the manager of the trauma program of a new hospital downtown. Used to be an emergency room nurse. Got really freaked out by eyes. Of all the things to be freaked out about, she got squeamish whenever there were eye injuries. She comes home and cleans inside, or cooks, or writes papers to be published for medical journals, and then maybe reads a book for a few hours before going to bed. Thinks that I'm a great writer and actor but that I'm wasting my talents by playing computer games all the time. Likes the fact that I'm trying to take more financial responsibility though. Wants me to find my motivation and finally graduate college.

mhm

Sister: Loves money. Loves money. Can't get enough money. She likes to make money and she likes to spend money. She's even told me that she wouldn't care how shitty and awful her job is, she would still do it if the money were good. She is almost never at home. She usually only comes home to sleep before going to work or to school or to hang out with friends. Supposedly hates getting drunk while still managing to drink most of the alcohol in the house. Thinks I'm a weird shut-in who needs to get out more. Maybe she's right.

I would probably hate her. But back to the task at hand...

As to college, I'm on my... let's say my thirteenth career choice now, journalism. I'm not liking most of the classes but I've resolved to just get it over with and get my degree and then get as far away from organized education as possible. I don't even really have any desire to be a journalist, it just seemed "kinda cool" when I was looking at career options. If you aren't in college yet, allow me to tell you that going in without a plan is a spectacularly bad idea and that floundering around between majors is a great way to induce extreme nihilistic anger at life within yourself.

True, but lack of experimentation may lead to unrealized career paths. Meh

Is "existential angst" a cliche, now?

Whatever, I hope this exercise gives you plenty of material to pick at my brain with. I'm hoping this is the only Type Me thread I ever have to make. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are hoping the same thing.

Anyway, ask me whatever questions you feel like asking. I'm keeping as open a mind as I can about this.
OK

I feel like you spent more time describing everyone else as opposed to describing yourself. You didn't give your particular take when you described those other things and it's hard to say what your type is when you're just describing stuff that's not really related to you. Tell me what you think about.. well anything. I know you already wrote a bunch of content but anything outside the bold lines indicates where it stopped getting useful xD

I would wager you are NT. I cannot be sure until I recieve lots more subjective analysis from you!

[Sir Knight]

Skeptic's post

Oh geez, more? Alright, I can do that.

It seems I have a real bias towards ethics in tests, mostly because of the presumptions I have towards thinking. I always assumed that logical types didn't get depressed because they could just "think" their way out of it. Like, "Yeah, I feel bad, but I'm healthy and my parents love me and I've got ots of friends who support me so I really don't have it that bad and, thus, QED, I don't have anything to be depressed about."

But now I'm realizing that a logical type is just as subject to the illogic of feelings as much as any ethical type. A logical type can get depressed and angry and happy as any other type, they just don't base their decisions on those feelings.

So one of my fears with this is that I may in fact be typing myself wrong as an ethical type when I may actually be a logical type. I mean, I get melancholies pretty frequently where I just hate myself and chastise myself for my weaknesses and for any perceived character flaws, but that's not a uniquely feeler thing to do, I've realized.

But when you take tests its like, "Are you cold and unemotional or do you live in a rich world of feelings and emotions?" and I interpret that as, "Am I a callous stodgy asshole robot or am I, in fact, a human being? Gee, I wonder." Or you'll come across a question that say, "Do you see the world in terms of systems and models" and I think, "What, like John Nash in A Beautiful Mind? Sketching out algorithms to track the movement of pigeons and stuff like that? No. No that's totally crazy." And then you see the opposite answer and it says, "Do you prefer to see the world in terms of relationships and people" and I think, "Oh yeah, people and relationships and shit, I'm all about that stuff!"

So right now I'm divided between the two, because, well, when they're both subjective processes, how do you tell which one you're using? Am I being nice to people because I genuinely want to be nice to people or because being nice to people means that people are generally nice to me back which nets me a benefit?

Extroversion and Introversion I'm kind of divided on too. I mean, sociability isn't a type thing, that's a person to person thing. Because if it was just sociability, then, yeah, I'd be an introvert. But from my understanding of socionics, the dichotomy describes how much initiative and willpower you have and where you draw social energy from: alone or with other people. And when its phrased like that, I'm not quite so sure. I certainly have a lot of intitiative at work (but then your work persona isn't indicative of your actual persona, I'm told). When it comes to socializing I usually don't make the first move, I let someone else address me first and then I'm all jokes and charm and that good stuff. I usually don't disturb someone unless there's a really good reason for it (so how about that test, eh?).

But then I tend to "draw energy" from conversation. Or, at least, if I'm in a funk it can help me to pull myself out of it. I don't know if that's actually an extroversion thing or something else, but talking to people generally helps me get outside of my head and keeps me from chastising myself, so I at least feel better in the short term.

I do agree with intuition though. Not sure which one, but that, if anything else, seems to fit. When it comes to interests I tend to just fixate on one thing for a while before getting bored of it and moving on to something else. For the moment, that thing is Socionics. Before that it was tabletop miniatures games, which I really enjoy even if I'm not very good at them. Friend#2 is awesome at them because he just figures out how the game works, what the best strategy is to use, and then just kind of wins. All the time. Playing with him is good for helping one get better (in the very long term), but it still sucks when I lose to him all the time. He plays the armies that are guaranteed to win while I play the armies that have the most interesting backstories and the coolest looking models.

Before that it was handguns. I own one little compact nine-mil. I used to go shooting a lot, but ammo and range time is expensive so I've kind of had to put a stop to that for the moment. My accuracy was getting pretty good, too, but school cuts in on the amount of time I have to work, so money's getting pretty tight. Socionics is nice in that respect because it's free.

I'm also the same way with music. I'll listen exclusively to one genre or album or artist for a month or two before just becoming totally sick of them and never really listening to them again. My friends think its weird that I have only a 1GB music player, but then again I tend to rotate through music pretty quickly. I don't really have any preferences. I tend to enjoy music more when it doesn't have lyrics. Unless the singer has a really good voice, I feel that lyrics get in the way of the melody and the sound. I mean, the actual music part is what I listen for. Singing only really works for me if it adds to and enhances the music.

I tend to like video game soundtracks because they're composed specifically to convey moods rather than themes or ideas. They're made specifically to make you feel something, and that something usually tends to be "excited" so I love that. Its kind of embarassing to only have Silent Hill soundtracks on your mp3 player though. I also listen to classical (but only if it has some pep to it) most kinds of techno and jazz, and occassionally metal or rap songs, but only if I like the specific song. I tend to not really enjoy a rap or metal album as a whole, just maybe one or two songs on it. Really, I'll listen to anything as long as I enjoy the music.

Now, in a really awkward transition, I once crashed my car. Lost it completely. Axles were so badly bent it would never drive again. I had just left my house, had just enough time to swill down some coffee and hop into my car and I pulled up to a T-intersection a half-mile to my house. I was fiddling with my mp3 player and then, when I found a really good song I liked I looked up and floored it. Then I realized that the light hadn't changed. See, I associated "punchy fast driving music" with "its go time" and it was, in fact, not go time.

So I tried to accelerate and make it into the lane but to no avail. I got totally t-boned by... a black... Mercedes, I think. Anyway, I realized I was in the middle o the lane, so I pulled my car onto the shoulder so that I wouldn't obstruct anybody, pulled my phone out of my pocket, told 911 that there had been an accident at such and such intersection and there they came.

Everyone had been surprised that I'd come out of it not only not dead but also without a scratch on me. ...it strikes me now that I am rather lucky to be alive after doing something so appallingly stupid. Anyway, I started freaking out and thinking that I had just ruined, say, the next three or four years of my life. Then I realized I was being silly, that insurance would take care of the cars, that I could just ride my bike to the train station, and that I'd work things out somehow. I talked to the other driver. She and her friend were shaken up but were alright and they forgave me for making them hit me. Then I walked home, called the parents, told them what happened, and... I don't really remember what happened after that. I think I went to bed.

So, when someone tells you that most accidents happen within two miles of home, they are, in fact, totally correct. Wow, I am not ingratiating myself well with the driving public of this forum, am I? Anyway, what really sucks about that story is that I had just put $1500 into making that car roadworthy enough to pass emissions and inspection, so by then I felt like I had well and truly purchased that car. It was a green '98 Honda Civic. Ugly car on the outside, but so beautiful on the inside. She cornered tightly, accelerated quickly, and she knew how to pace herself when it came to fuel. And so something of immense sentimental value was destroyed by my own hands. Lame.

I've got a new car now, but I feel like I haven't earned it. After the accident I wanted to just do everything myself. I worked out the bus and train schedules so that I could get around to school quickly, and I was going to just cut off my dependence on cars altogether and ride my bike everywhere, but my parents insisted I have a car. They bought my sister a used car and gave me the car that she and I used to share during school. It just isn't "mine" in the way my first car was. Its a perfectly fine car and it does just about everything mine used to do, but it still just isn't "mine." You know? I just don't feel the same connection to it. I'm not going to lose this one though. I hope, anyway.

As to school, I've tried lots of different fields. I started off in Pharmacy. Seemed like it'd be easy money and a relatively easy job. But then, I realized it was basically the same job I have now, where you get exactly the same amount of respect from your customers (read: minimal) with astronomically higher pay. I wanted something a little more interesting than that. That and all of the stuff you had to memorize... all the drug interactions and pharmacology stuff? Good God, no. Who has time to suck in that many details? Well, pharamcists do, obviously, but I don't.

I found physics and physiology to be absolutely fascinating. They took things that I took for granted in real life and reduced them down to math equations. I did pretty well at those too, just because I enjoyed them so much as to make the work worth the effort. Chemistry though... Jesus. Its just so hard to care about stuff that's fundamentally unobservable without specialized equipment. Physics and physiology you can see at work when you do... well, anything.

Despite it also being mostly unobservable, I found psychology really neat as well. I didn't really understand why we had to learn about Freud's theories, though. Sure he's an important figure, but since most of his "research" was discredited, why is a lot of it still taught? Psych was about major choice number six, by the way. Two was Physician Assistant (what my dad does), Three was Emergency Medical Technician, Four was X-ray technician, and I believe it was about then that I got tired of looking into medical professions.

I have a tough time picking just one thing to devote myself to because... I'm not sure, its tough to say why exactly, but I think its because I want my choice of career to reflect well on me... Maybe. I don't know why, but I just tend to lose interest in the career fields I've chosen for whatever reason and I think it may be because I want my job to define who I am.

Anyways, choice number Five was Urban Planning, number Six was Psychology, number Seven was Arcitecture, number eight was Writing, number Nine was Social Worker, number Ten was Actor, number Eleven... is journalism. I guess it was just eleven major choices after all.

Of all of them, I wish I could be an actor. I really had fun doing that in high school. Acting class was just an insane combination of improv and scene-work and it really made my day. College acting class was... well it basically managed to snuff out any sense of fun in acting (as college classes seem wont to do with any subject matter), and, well, really, how many more actors does the world need?

Anyway, that should be good enough for now, I hope.

Oh, and to answer your questions, no, I don't find it easy to incentivise people into doing stuff. I usually just ask them, like, "Say, would you do this for me?" and if they refuse I'll just do it myself when I can.

As to "many walls," well, it was explained to me as the "castle theory" in elementary school. Your social life is envisioned as a castle. Beyond the lands of your castle are villages, wherein reside the various service workers who serve you lunch at restaurants and fix your water heater and drive you in taxicabs. Essentially people whom you interact with on a daily basis but whom you don't really know well enough to want to get closer to, and thus, you keep them outside of your castle. Beyond the villages are Ye Unknown Lands, which, basically, are full of people you haven't met yet.

On the very exterior of the castle is the moat, which is cold and full of crocodiles. This is where your enemies go. You want your enemies to be cold, and eaten by crocodiles. The only way over the moat is by means of the drawbridge. If you leave the drawbridge up you're a total recluse and you're going to starve to death. Starving to death, in this metaphor, means to die lonely. So you have to keep the drawbridge down if you want to have any kind of social life, but you need to keep it guarded so that any random barbarian can't just invite himself in. Guards, in this metaphor, being, like, your evaluatory processes for how you determine what you want in a friend. So if someone passes the drawbridge guards then they find themselves in The Outer Courtyard of Acquaintenceship. Its the largest courtyard anyone has, because the most people are going to go here. People who you think are mostly trustworthy (or, at least, haven't stabbed you in the back yet) and who you're on pretty good terms with, but whom you're not sure whether or not you should allow them into the castle further yet. You might do simple favors for them or help them out with simple things, but you're probably not going to be offering them a shoulder to cry on or helping them move their couch up three flights of stairs yet.

So they may try to get past the second set of Guards into the Inner Courtyard of Lukewarm Friendship. People whom you know of as the right kind of people who most definitely wouldn't stab you in the back or abuse you in some way. People who won't use your friendship for evil purposes. If they try that shit after they've been invited into the Inner Courtyard, they're probably going straight to the Moat. But generally, they're only in the Inner Courtyard because you trust them enough to let them in.

After that, there's the Keep of Forbidden Knowledge. The Keep is very well fortified and its got, like, a trillion armed guards armed with crossbows on top of it watching for any sign of intrusion. No one gets into the keep without invitation, because inside the keep their are secrets. Your secrets, specifically. Only very few people are allowed into the Keep of Forbidden Knowledge. You have to really trust that these people aren't going to use those secrets for personal gain, so you have to be careful about who you let in.

Beyond the keep is the Central Courtyard of Everlasting Friendship. People are only allowed in here when they've proven that you can let them mill about in the Keep without them being tempted to screw you over in any way. So, basically, these are the people for whom you would take two or three bullets for, and for whom you would drive hundreds of miles to be with. Solid, reliable friends who will be with you until the end, so to speak.

Then, beyond even that, is the Inner Sanctum of Absolute Trust. The easiest way to get in here is to just be born here. That is to say, your children. People who began life outside the castle walls will have a very difficult time getting here, as we are talking about unconditional love here. The people who make it here are the people you would gladly die for and for whom you would undertake the most horrifying and certainly lethal tasks for to save. Which doesn't happen much in real life, but its the thought that counts, god damn it.

Anyway, that's castle theory. Depending on how private a person you are, you may increase or decrease the number of courtyards and guards between people and your inner sanctum.

[Skeptic]

Great! That provides a lot more material to work with. I'll see what I can make of it in the morning; if I tried to tackle it now you would recieve tired gibberish of low quality.

[Suz]

As to "many walls," well, it was explained to me as the "castle theory" in elementary school. Your social life is envisioned as a castle. Beyond the lands of your castle are villages, wherein reside the various service workers who serve you lunch at restaurants and fix your water heater and drive you in taxicabs. Essentially people whom you interact with on a daily basis but whom you don't really know well enough to want to get closer to, and thus, you keep them outside of your castle. Beyond the villages are Ye Unknown Lands, which, basically, are full of people you haven't met yet.

On the very exterior of the castle is the moat, which is cold and full of crocodiles. This is where your enemies go. You want your enemies to be cold, and eaten by crocodiles. The only way over the moat is by means of the drawbridge. If you leave the drawbridge up you're a total recluse and you're going to starve to death. Starving to death, in this metaphor, means to die lonely. So you have to keep the drawbridge down if you want to have any kind of social life, but you need to keep it guarded so that any random barbarian can't just invite himself in. Guards, in this metaphor, being, like, your evaluatory processes for how you determine what you want in a friend. So if someone passes the drawbridge guards then they find themselves in The Outer Courtyard of Acquaintenceship. Its the largest courtyard anyone has, because the most people are going to go here. People who you think are mostly trustworthy (or, at least, haven't stabbed you in the back yet) and who you're on pretty good terms with, but whom you're not sure whether or not you should allow them into the castle further yet. You might do simple favors for them or help them out with simple things, but you're probably not going to be offering them a shoulder to cry on or helping them move their couch up three flights of stairs yet.

So they may try to get past the second set of Guards into the Inner Courtyard of Lukewarm Friendship. People whom you know of as the right kind of people who most definitely wouldn't stab you in the back or abuse you in some way. People who won't use your friendship for evil purposes. If they try that shit after they've been invited into the Inner Courtyard, they're probably going straight to the Moat. But generally, they're only in the Inner Courtyard because you trust them enough to let them in.

After that, there's the Keep of Forbidden Knowledge. The Keep is very well fortified and its got, like, a trillion armed guards armed with crossbows on top of it watching for any sign of intrusion. No one gets into the keep without invitation, because inside the keep their are secrets. Your secrets, specifically. Only very few people are allowed into the Keep of Forbidden Knowledge. You have to really trust that these people aren't going to use those secrets for personal gain, so you have to be careful about who you let in.

Beyond the keep is the Central Courtyard of Everlasting Friendship. People are only allowed in here when they've proven that you can let them mill about in the Keep without them being tempted to screw you over in any way. So, basically, these are the people for whom you would take two or three bullets for, and for whom you would drive hundreds of miles to be with. Solid, reliable friends who will be with you until the end, so to speak.

Then, beyond even that, is the Inner Sanctum of Absolute Trust. The easiest way to get in here is to just be born here. That is to say, your children. People who began life outside the castle walls will have a very difficult time getting here, as we are talking about unconditional love here. The people who make it here are the people you would gladly die for and for whom you would undertake the most horrifying and certainly lethal tasks for to save. Which doesn't happen much in real life, but its the thought that counts, god damn it.

Anyway, that's castle theory. Depending on how private a person you are, you may increase or decrease the number of courtyards and guards between people and your inner sanctum.

Interesting metaphor. The metaphor itself and how you describe it sounds a lot like creative Fi. (SEE or IEE). You have me going back and forth on Se vs Ne though, for you. The aversion to abstract sciences like chemistry in favor of the more observable ones suggests Se. But this:

As to school, I've tried lots of different fields. I started off in Pharmacy. Seemed like it'd be easy money and a relatively easy job. But then, I realized it was basically the same job I have now, where you get exactly the same amount of respect from your customers (read: minimal) with astronomically higher pay. I wanted something a little more interesting than that. That and all of the stuff you had to memorize... all the drug interactions and pharmacology stuff? Good God, no. Who has time to suck in that many details? Well, pharamcists do, obviously, but I don't.

and this:

Despite it also being mostly unobservable, I found psychology really neat as well. I didn't really understand why we had to learn about Freud's theories, though. Sure he's an important figure, but since most of his "research" was discredited, why is a lot of it still taught? Psych was about major choice number six, by the way. Two was Physician Assistant (what my dad does), Three was Emergency Medical Technician, Four was X-ray technician, and I believe it was about then that I got tired of looking into medical professions.

I have a tough time picking just one thing to devote myself to because... I'm not sure, its tough to say why exactly, but I think its because I want my choice of career to reflect well on me... Maybe. I don't know why, but I just tend to lose interest in the career fields I've chosen for whatever reason and I think it may be because I want my job to define who I am.

Anyways, choice number Five was Urban Planning, number Six was Psychology, number Seven was Arcitecture, number eight was Writing, number Nine was Social Worker, number Ten was Actor, number Eleven... is journalism. I guess it was just eleven major choices after all.

sounds like Ne. But i suppose it could be Ne-Role. Seems a little extreme.


I actually think based on that last post that you might be SEE (maybe IEE and you'll need to figure that out for yourself).

[ClownsandEntropy]

I'm thinking Beta, a Perceiver, because of the reasons already said about the general feeling of aggression, your dislike of detailed instructions sounds Te-devaluing, and I feel like wanting your job to show who you are is more Se/Ni than Ne/Si.

In regards to the "Castle Theory" sounding like Creative-Fi (this is really to WorkaholicsAnon), it may be that that was how the theory was explained, and so it sounds like creative- not because Sir Knight is Fi-valuing, but because that is how its remembered.

I was initially thinking Ni, but now I am also considering Se.

But that's just what I think.

[Azeroffs]

My first impression was ExTp, ESTp > ENTp

lol @ all the different typings.

[Sir Knight]

Yeah, my subconcious is kind of a mess, guys, sorry.

[Sir Knight]

Well.. I usually look for temperament indicators first, and these have an introverted feel:

Thanks for the reply, let's see if I can answer some of these...


I figured Fe>Te because I'm reminded of two IEIs I know irl who seriously lacks motivation and spends time locked in their rooms playing computer games, but that's a flimsy indicator.

It's sensible, though. In dictionary terms I'm definitely an introvert, but in socionics terms, I'm not sure.


Your introductory post centers on 1) your values 2) people and how you feel about them.

Are values a strictly ethical thing, or do logical types have those as well? I'm under the impression that the judging processes are all based on subjectively valued information and so they all have values. Do I have that right or am I way off base?


May equally be seen as a manifestation of Ti PoLR. Perhaps you could describe in more detail what pisses you off in being given overly detailed instructions. Is it due to you finding these instructions unnecessarily complicating things, and that you could accomplish things way faster without it, or because you want to take your time in doing the particular task by expending the least energy possible?

Hmmm... In a way I would say both. To give you two examples:

1) At work, we have a new Grocery person who isn't very well liked by the people manning the front (I work as a cashier in a grocery store by the way). Essentially, most people find her to be very condescending. The other day our lobby person didn't face the candy. In industry speak, "facing" is where you basically make sure all the rows upon rows of items all look neat and orderly, which involves manually rearranging all of it so that everything's pointed the right way and even. So, basically, the most tedious, seemingly useless job you could be asked to do. I get that it's important to have straight, neat looking aisles so that people see that and feel like the store is clean and nice, but just, please, inflict the task on some other poor bugger, not me.

Anyway, lobby person skipped out on facing the candy and so this Grocery person tells me to do it and essentially manages to imply that I'm lazy and a moron in doing so. I realize its just her personality, but when someone takes half a minute to tell you to do something you know all too well how to do and then takes the unnecessary step of telling you how to do it, well, that makes anyone feel like a moron.

My dad feels the need to do this whenever he asks me to do menial stuff around the house out of some kind of compulsion. Like, in the same breath as he's telling me to do it, he's telling me how to do it too. Like I haven't mowed the lawn before, dad, its not that hard. He often gives me a confused look when I point this out to him and just says, "well, ooo-kay." and leaves me to it.

2) As another example, of expending as little energy as possible, as cashiers, we're expected to suggesitive sales, where we'll have an item sitting at our checkstands and we're supposed to suggest to people that they buy it. Problem is, the stuff we sell is usually the last thing a person would ever need or really even want, so few people actually want the stuff and those that do usually just ask about it and buy it before I even suggest it to them. So I just stopped doing suggestive sales completely. Why waste breath selling something someone doesn't want?

In another example, we usually have a lot items ring up incorrectly. I'm not sure why this keeps happening, so I just assume its a normal grocery store thing. Anyway, its usually the customer who points this out, so from there I have three options

1) Say, "Well I dunno why its wrong, I'm just a cashier."
2) Call the department the item belongs to and verify the price or, just run to the shelf the item is on and verify it myself since that's faster than waiting for some department guy to get to the phone.
3) Just say, "Sorry, I'll fix that for you" and give them whatever price they think the item is supposed to be.

Unless the guy seems really shady or the price is way off from what the computer quotes it, I just go straight to Option 3. The computer is usually wrong in these cases and this way I don't hold up the line behind them or piss them off. Much less energy spent.

Also, how capable do you think you are in getting work done? Do you require a lot of pushing and forcing?
Depends on the work really. At work I will do any little thing demanded of me because when I'm working I can't possibly be looking at a clock so then the time goes by faster and I can get out of there. That and people seem to be very appreciative of my hard work, so, yeah.

With school though, I tend to just wait until the last possible minute. Most of the time I just look at my work and think, "how is this even helping me at all?" I mean, at work there's a reason to be interested in working hard because, well, they're paying me to work hard. With homework I often just feel like every assignment I'm given isn't to further my knowledge or to help me with my education, but rather just because the teacher needs to put something in her grade-book. Hell, just this week I had a portfolio to turn in for my Visual Communications class that I was supposed to spend perhaps an afternoon carefully working on it. I had several opportunities to do this and didn't.

What could I possibly learn from an arts and crafts project, I thought. I know the visual design principles, so what is this going to help me with? So, essentially, I just bought all the supplies I needed from the university store sat myself in front of a computer in the library and in no less than an hour I had my entire project finished and ready to hand. A little patchwork, perhaps, but still better than having no assignment to turn in at all.

And when it comes to housework, fuggedaboudit. I often let papers and books and pens and miscellaneous items pile up and I let dust settle and coffee rings form everywhere and I notice it and it bothers me, but I tend to not get around to cleaning it until, say, three weeks after the fact where I just scrub down every surface, put every thing in its place and fill every place with a thing, vacuum every nook and cranny, and leave my whole space looking like its never been lived in before.

...and then I promptly let it go to hell again almost immediately. But whatever. Point being, getting me to work requires some kind of motivation. Not necessarily external, though that certainly helps.

You say here, that this friend of yours correct your speech slurs. Why are you not offended by him, yet having your grammar corrected by the person above pisses you off? Or are they the same person?
Same person. He does it because he knows that it gets under my skin. Or maybe he doesn't know that and its just a compulsion he has. I'm not quite sure. Point being, it bothers me, but its him, so I just give him shit back and we're all good.

Friend 1 sounds like an Fe-PoLR.

Hmmm... So that would be Te-creative, Introverted, and Irrational? This sounds like it would suit him actually... I should look this up...

[Suz]

I'm thinking Beta, a Perceiver, because of the reasons already said about the general feeling of aggression, your dislike of detailed instructions sounds Te-devaluing, and I feel like wanting your job to show who you are is more Se/Ni than Ne/Si.

In regards to the "Castle Theory" sounding like Creative-Fi (this is really to WorkaholicsAnon), it may be that that was how the theory was explained, and so it sounds like creative- not because Sir Knight is Fi-valuing, but because that is how its remembered.

I was initially thinking Ni, but now I am also considering Se.

But that's just what I think.

True i did consider that! But Sir Knight seems to relate to that description a lot too, so much so that he described the castle theory to us in great detail, which is why i thought it reflected him.

[Suz]

Anyway, lobby person skipped out on facing the candy and so this Grocery person tells me to do it and essentially manages to imply that I'm lazy and a moron in doing so. I realize its just her personality, but when someone takes half a minute to tell you to do something you know all too well how to do and then takes the unnecessary step of telling you how to do it, well, that makes anyone feel like a moron.

My dad feels the need to do this whenever he asks me to do menial stuff around the house out of some kind of compulsion. Like, in the same breath as he's telling me to do it, he's telling me how to do it too. Like I haven't mowed the lawn before, dad, its not that hard. He often gives me a confused look when I point this out to him and just says, "well, ooo-kay." and leaves me to it.

Actually, this sounds like Te-HA to me.

2) As another example, of expending as little energy as possible, as cashiers, we're expected to suggesitive sales, where we'll have an item sitting at our checkstands and we're supposed to suggest to people that they buy it. Problem is, the stuff we sell is usually the last thing a person would ever need or really even want, so few people actually want the stuff and those that do usually just ask about it and buy it before I even suggest it to them. So I just stopped doing suggestive sales completely. Why waste breath selling something someone doesn't want?

I dont think this is "expending as little energy as possible." It's Se-devaluing, actually. I have a very similar attitude, and I think it has to do with being good at Ne and Fi and recognizing when a customer just isn't interested. And I also dont like wasting my breath on such things, it burns me out. Why? because it's Se-role, superego function that take a LOT of energy to implement, and goes against our values.

And when it comes to housework, fuggedaboudit. I often let papers and books and pens and miscellaneous items pile up and I let dust settle and coffee rings form everywhere and I notice it and it bothers me, but I tend to not get around to cleaning it until, say, three weeks after the fact where I just scrub down every surface, put every thing in its place and fill every place with a thing, vacuum every nook and cranny, and leave my whole space looking like its never been lived in before.

...and then I promptly let it go to hell again almost immediately. But whatever. Point being, getting me to work requires some kind of motivation. Not necessarily external, though that certainly helps.

Intuitive with Si-dual seeking (the coffee rings and bust bother you), where you are finally compelled to provide some Si for yourself. Therefore intuitive = Ne.

You are IEE my friend.

[Suz]

Yeah, my subconcious is kind of a mess, guys, sorry.

Dont apologize, that's a sign of Ne!

Ne-ego people LOVE complexity.

[squark]

gahhh. *shakes head* As I'm sure you've noticed, Knight, it's pretty easy for any behavior you mentioned to be interpreted through whatever element a person wants to use. "AHA! This means Ti! or Ne! or Fi!" It often doesn't. The person forms an idea, and then makes the evidence fit their idea, rather than the other way around. So, you get wildly varying opinions, all "supported" by whatever evidence they chose to support it.

[CILi]

gahhh... it's pretty easy for any behavior you mentioned to be interpreted through whatever element a person wants to use.

I like this, a lot.

But how does one "interpret" objectively?

Can it be done?

(Oh, and SirK, I vote overwhelmingingly Beta NF. You played the B&D poke too well to be much else.)

[Suz]

gahhh. *shakes head* As I'm sure you've noticed, Knight, it's pretty easy for any behavior you mentioned to be interpreted through whatever element a person wants to use. "AHA! This means Ti! or Ne! or Fi!" It often doesn't. The person forms an idea, and then makes the evidence fit their idea, rather than the other way around. So, you get wildly varying opinions, all "supported" by whatever evidence they chose to support it.

LOL, maybe so.

You're right i guess an IEE wouldn't really sound quite like Sir Knight's posts sound (the general undertone).

You're a toughy to type Sir Knight! Maybe a pic or two would help for VI?

[Absurd]

[Suz]

How else could one go about typing a person through text? We associate the behaviours we read about with particular elements it is associated with. And when we happen to identify with certain behaviours, we point it out. Sure, the functions may be incorrectly associated with the subject's own behaviour, and this is probably inevitable. But it is all we can do to assist- by pointing out the plausible options from the self-description and describing our experiences and interpretations as we know it. It is up to the subject to decide on his own which makes the most sense as applied to him, because after all he knows himself better than we do.

very true.

[stevENTj]

Unfortunately don't have nearly enough time to get through the lengthy text, but did make it through the first one and I'll guess IEI for now as well.

[stevENTj]

There/their/they're and your/you're and the people who get right up their ass about it: You can't even hear the distinction in real life for fuck's sake. You knew exactly which form I was using not based on how it was spelled but based on how I used it in the sentence, in context. Why the fuck are you correcting me on something you were smart enough to figure out anyway? Why do we even have these words anyway? Why can't we just smoosh them down into one word each and make them all totally context sensitive?! French speakers do that shit all the time with their language and you're telling me we get stymied by this?! God damn!

This in particular caught my eye.

When people get that wrong it does sort of annoy me, but I'm not anal enough to actively correct people. I have a friend that does though.

Misuse of these words is "wrong" as a matter of fact, but yeah people will be able to figure out what you're saying.

This might be considered a PoLR which would line up with and support IEI.

[silverchris9]

I know everyone's been saying Beta NF, but I don't see any Beta irrational in him at all. Maybe a beta rational, but I'd be more inclined to go with alpha or gamma. I mean, doesn't everybody hate traffic and people who correct them? I don't think that's an exclusively beta trait. Granted, his self expression did sound "extreme," but I don't know, I just didn't get any IEI/SLE vibe from sir knight's posts at all. Shrug.

[Aiss]

Extrovert is all I'd say.

Also, lol at people in this thread implying almost everyone is Te-PoLR. Do you really think that about half the people enjoy being give detailed instructions, or are you just trolling?

[Wynch]

What gives the impression of Extrovert? I'm curious because I had an overall impression of introversion.

[munenori2]

You remind me a little of both of my sisters in different ways. One I think is ESFp and the other IxFj, which is a really weird justification since I'm going to guess you're INFp or maybe IxFj if that falls through.

[Jenna]

I know everyone's been saying Beta NF, but I don't see any Beta irrational in him at all. Maybe a beta rational, but I'd be more inclined to go with alpha or gamma. I mean, doesn't everybody hate traffic and people who correct them? I don't think that's an exclusively beta trait. Granted, his self expression did sound "extreme," but I don't know, I just didn't get any IEI/SLE vibe from sir knight's posts at all. Shrug.

agreed. i don't see IEI at all. why is this even a suggestion?

[Sir Knight]

silverchris and Jenna's posts

You know, its funny you both should say that, as the type that I most often get from tests is IEI, followed by EII and ESI. Granted, as I've said, self-reported tests are a rather bad indicator and I feel I can't actually trust them, but all the same, why do you think I'm not IEI? You know, other than vibes?

munenori2

So... how do I remind you of them?

squark, CILi, and greenantler's posts

Yeah, I'm seeing that the point of the exercise is that the only person who knows me well enough to type me is, well, me. I appreciate the effort being put into it though, don't get me wrong.

As for B&D's poke, I've learned how to deal with hair-trigger people like him at work. He's more than likely not angry at me (since, like, he has no idea who I am and is probably half the continent away) but rather at what he feels I represent, which is, in this case, a homosexual who hates himself for his homosexuality and so puts up a gay-hating front to cover for that, I guess.

If you just answer that kind of person with overwhelming reasonableness they tend to just realize you aren't at all what they think you represent and problem solved. He hasn't even replied yet, so I suppose this all just took care of itself.

Aiss' post

They may assume that since it was the thing I felt most like complaining about that it was the part that bothered me the most. That Te was acting up now that it had an outlet or something like that.

What about me strikes you as extraverted?

Absurd's post

Oooh! Stealth burn!

ananke's post

Some people get hot and bothered for ninjas. Others get all moist over pirates. I get it up for knights. Because, I think, if you're going to idealize a historical figure, who better than someone who puts on his plate mail, gets on his horse, patrols his domain, punishes injustice, and woos maidens. No sneaking around and poisoning people or killing them with gardening tools or pillaging honest business men before starving to death at sea.

Granted, you kind of have to throw out all that stuff about only paying lipservice to the codes of chivalry or the fact that most knights were cruel, inbred, selfish bastards for the illusion to work, but oh well.

WorkaholicsAnon's posts

Ehhh... I'm skeptical about VI. I get the theory behind it, but it strikes me as a very unscientific way to do things. Not that I wish to impugn people who have put the time in to learn how to do it, but it still seems like cheating to me, sorry.

As to the metaphor it was originally a lot simpler, but I felt like embellishing a little. I like making big overbloated matephors that try to explain every possible detail within a system as a kind of joke. Friend #1 prods me into this by asking me to explain what everything is supposed to represent or be represented by until one of us finally says, "Good God, this metaphor sucks."

I can make pretty good ones though. In my intro. to news writing class I made a pretty good one about how writing a perfect paragraph transition was like executing a perfect right turn. Too fast and you go over on two wheels (which is to represent you going straight into the next paragraph with no transition whatsoever and thus jarring the reader). Too slow and you're liable to get rammed from behind when you come to a complete stop and then turn (this representing you taking way, WAY too long to transition and having it come off all awkward). I wanted to work in pedestrians or oncoming traffic somehow, but I had to keep it pithy.

stevENTj's post

Yeah, I know. I try diligently not to make those mistakes in my writing, but it still bothers me that people take a sickening kind of pride in correcting that. The fact that there are multiple Facebook groups with thousands of members each devoted to jacking themselves off over their overwhelming mutual grammatical correctness moves one towards nausea. Of all the things to get worked up over, they pick something so miniscule. Honestly.

Anyway, it seems that I'm more than likely IEI, but there are still a few voices that find evidence to the contrary... Any questions I can answer to help narrow it down?

[Wynch]

Some people get hot and bothered for ninjas. Others get all moist over pirates. I get it up for knights. Because, I think, if you're going to idealize a historical figure, who better than someone who puts on his plate mail, gets on his horse, patrols his domain, punishes injustice, and woos maidens. No sneaking around and poisoning people or killing them with gardening tools or pillaging honest business men before starving to death at sea.

Granted, you kind of have to throw out all that stuff about only paying lipservice to the codes of chivalry or the fact that most knights were cruel, inbred, selfish bastards for the illusion to work, but oh well.

This mentality reminds me of my former roomie, who seemed to love Knights, Samurais and Cowboys and the notion of the knight-in-shining-armour persona with women. FWIW, I type him IEI, lol.

And you just love the 18th-19th Century Sir Walter Scott variety of knight. At least you know there's a difference