Morbid Obesity in relation to types

[suedehead]

Are they typically xxFp E9? Abject nihilism seems to be a common theme.

[suedehead]

[Anglas]

Its probably more related to depression than anything else.

[Sol]

Joey's Heart Attack - ESFP

Its probably more related to depression than anything else.

Such big surplus weight may to have relation to types as S types think more about physical things. Where Se types lesser care about health and aesthetics.
The main factor can be genetical or other biological predisposition. The strong link with depression is doubtful as this disorder supresses appetite, - not to such degree, at least.

[Kim]

Its probably more related to depression than anything else.

Depression and addiction.

[wacey]

Usually Si types.

[Tiger tamer]

Are they typically xxFp E9?

I'm speaking from my own experience only, but out of people I've met, xSFps (but especially ISFps) are the ones who tend to have the most problems with weight and eating too much (assuming that I've typed them correctly). ISFps usually try to fix the problem in a more balanced manner, doing light exercise and trying to eat more healthy or they go to therapy, if it's a mental issue. The ESFps I know use more extreme diets (like not eating for days) and exercise. ESFps however are usually more successful in losing weight.
I've never met an overweight INFp or ENFp (or any NF for that matter).

[Anglas]

The strong link with depression is doubtful as this disorder supresses appetite, - not to such degree, at least.

A major weight change is one of the symptoms of depression.
Example: http://www.mtv.com/news/2858392/went...the-lad-bible/

[marooned]

pretty much the #1 reason i type myself SEI off and on is being fat.


eta: more intelligent me realizes there is more to it than this sort of thinking--a lot more to it. but i can't shake that thinking even though part of me knows better. it's mainly because this is one type stereotype that is first & foremost more personal to me, and that i can see an argument for or strong possible trend.

i think obesity in the u.s. is a complex social issue intertwined with people's genetics and biology. by social issue i mean that you find more fat people in the lower classes and among minorities too. it's also connected to mental health problems. so i know when i'm considering it that it's complex and more complex than being as strongly type-related than the stereotypes... but i still can't shake it anyway especially when i also feel lazy. like fat & lazy *is* the stereotype.

i haven't watched the videos in the OP but i can see these people are extreme examples and i doubt any of them are mentally healthy. i wish there was the equivalent of rehab for food addicts as i kind of imagine that's what the OP individuals would need. most addicts are really looking for dopamine release has been my impression, whether they are addicted to drugs or food or skydiving... and of course the more one feeds an addiction, the more dopamine receptors are formed in the brain and the stronger the need to feed it even more (chasing the dragon). at least this is what i suspect, even though it's simplistic.

i knew someone who reported that her brother was a food addict and he would spend most of his time eating... apparently he didn't really even enjoy it anymore but just felt compelled to eat and couldn't stop himself. he was also severely physically disabled, even as a child before food addiction, and couldn't move around very much. eta: i mention this because i suspect food addiction "ends" where the other addictions do (it seems obvious). one just feeds the addiction trying to establish a baseline of functioning or feeling of psychological well-being... there is no longer any pay off (or getting one's fix)--in fact it becomes a living nightmare trying to keep up with it. with the loss of functioning and the consistently messed up brain chemistry, the addict's self-control ebbs away as well... both because s/he can't get enough dopamine (or whatever other chemicals are involved) and due to loss of executive functioning (both from lack of use of those brain regions and from possible brain damage). (this is why depression actually can contribute to obesity as it, over time, can erode executive functioning as well.)

[suedehead]

I can think of a few fat ENFj's:

Orson Welles




Rainer Werner Fassbinder



Morrissey



They seem to be on the bulkier side in general compared to other NFs

[marooned]

i've encountered quite a few overweight dominants.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

It's like ur makin fun of them cuz they aren't hot Chads.

[suedehead]

I consider them kindred spirits. If there isn't a 6/10+ underneath this 30-lb fat suit I'll probably go back to slaying the donuts that my body pines for.

[The Reality Denialist]

If you look at alcoholism for example it seems to me that there are lots of different routes to it. The most clear categories are social and non-social drinking. They start to blend at some point.
Let's say you are forced or dependant to a life style (incl. profession etc.) which is not optimal for you. It starts to show everywhere if it is severely non optimal. Weight issues are one of the possibilities. Can be quite horrendous cycle.
Low Si and low activity in these days. Can you see how things could start to pile up?
Hoe about a person who is required to (some sort of representative or something) eat heavy foods on daily basis?

[suedehead]

Ti-ESTp pizza slayer

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I consider them kindred spirits.

I remember seeing a blurry photograph of your face and you didn't look that fat. But it was blurry idk you should post more pics of yourself. You are probably overweight and 'white male nerdy fat' but I also have this natural sense that you are exaggerating being a 'kindred spirit' w/these easily made fun of ppl.

My IEI step brother was pure muscle and had the body of a male model, yet he just sat around, ate all the food in the house and played video games all day.

I used to be the same way. Ate eight whitecastles like they were nothing and burned them off really fast naturally. I think my metabolism got fucked up when I got depressed/neurotic. I am trying to lose weight now but it's an uphill battle- as I think when you feel sad inside, everything you eat naturally sticks and sinks down anyway. I need to exercise more and do more Chad-ish things, which I've been trying to do lately. I always feel so much better the day after a good workout dunno why I don't do it more.

[summerprincess]

Causes: Terrible childhoods/faulty attachment patterns/abuse/personality disorders and lack of impulse control/lack of helpful support system/low intelligence/poverty/genetics/narrow palate/living in the US where obesity is common and less stigmatized than in other countries. If you let yourself get that fat in the first place you basically hate yourself and are committing slow suicide. Hell, even being just overweight is detrimental. I'm 5'8. When I was 16 I gained a bunch of weight up to 155 lbs, I wasn't even technically overweight but I was eating 4 meals plus snacks (chocolate, chips) every day probably over 3000 calories or more. What I did was stop eating like that, because I felt disgusting and I have enough shame to improve myself. Now I weigh 122 eating a normal diet. Not that hard. I don't even go to the gym, I have depression and anxiety, I still binge eat. And yet somehow I manage to force myself to restrict....peoples excuses are dumb. HOWEVER. If you are fat from childhood that is a different matter and in that case it is very hard to keep weight off.

[summerprincess]

I actually don't think it's type related. My IEI dad is lazy, had a super fast metabolism, ate a ton, and up until his 40's he was a lean string bean. Now that he's in his 50's, he's fattened up simply because his metabolism slowed down and he still eats the mass amounts of food that he used to consume (he's not obese at all, just overweight and unhealthy). He says he actually likes being kind of fat now because he couldn't gain weight at all for most of his life.

Come to think of it, the IEI's I know are actually pretty lazy (other than going to the gym regularly), yet still fit or skinny. Idk why this is, though. As a teen I never worked out and I ate like a bottomless pit, and my friends could never understand why I was so thin. They would blame it on the fact that I spent most of my life sleeping. My IEI step brother was pure muscle and had the body of a male model, yet he just sat around, ate all the food in the house and played video games all day.

You're right. Perhaps fidgeting or because IEI worry so much lol? Or the amount of the caffeine we drink/stimulants. Also, though I am not naturally super thin, my weight still tends towards the lower side, like medications tend to make me lose weight rather than gain it. This is all speculation thoughhh

[Grendel]

lol nothing is type related

[jessica129]

Causes: Terrible childhoods/faulty attachment patterns/abuse/personality disorders and lack of impulse control/lack of helpful support system/low intelligence/poverty/genetics/narrow palate/living in the US where obesity is common and less stigmatized than in other countries. If you let yourself get that fat in the first place you basically hate yourself and are committing slow suicide.

oh, okay. I will chalk my chubbiness up to me hating myself...and here I thought it was my non-existent thyroid, HAHA! silly me!!!11

You are so ignorant. Stop talking.

[suedehead]

A year ago I was eating 8,000+ calories every other day for a month straight after becoming disillusioned with PUA and self-help rhetoric in general. Typical go-tos:

[summerprincess]

oh, okay. I will chalk my chubbiness up to me hating myself...and here I thought it was my non-existent thyroid, HAHA! silly me!!!11

You are so ignorant. Stop talking.

Well in my post I wasn't really talking about chubby people at all, I was talking about morbidly obese people. Obviously being chubby doesn't mean you hate yourself. This thread is after all titled, "The morbidly obese" lol. Additionally, thyroid problems don't necessarily lead one to become fat? They may lead to some weight gain ("chubbiness"), just as they may lead to some weight loss. However, thyroid problems do not cause somebody to become either anorexically thin or obese. PS I looked it up to check and according to the American Thyroid Association, only 5-10 pounds of weight gain is generally attributable to hypothyroidism. Soo apparently I am not the ignorant one here.

[anndelise]

I think there are a number of variables which can lead to weight gain, not just over-eating. When those variables get compounded, then the harder and more exhausting it will be for the person to manage each of them. Sometimes instead of constantly battling the variables, a person will give up or give in....or just set other things as having higher priority to concern themselves with. After all, there's more to life than the numbers on a scale or the size of one's jeans.

Also, Calorie restriction isn't always the answer. We are chemical/hormonal beings, and we don't get energy by burning our foods over/in flames like a steam engine does. Counting calories is an outdated model.

[GuavaDrunk]

Re: shame as self-improvement fuel - not so: TED talk: Brenée Brown - Listening To Shame

(13:31ish) The thing to understand about shame is, it's not guilt. Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is "I am bad." Guilt is "I did something bad." How many of you, if you did something that was hurtful to me, would be willing to say, "I'm sorry. I made a mistake?" How many of you would be willing to say that? Guilt: I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Shame: I'm sorry. I am a mistake.

There's a huge difference between shame and guilt. And here's what you need to know. Shame is highly, highly correlated with addiction, depression, violence, aggression, bullying, suicide, eating disorders. And here's what you even need to know more. Guilt, inversely correlated with those things. The ability to hold something we've done or failed to do up against who we want to be is incredibly adaptive. It's uncomfortable, but it's adaptive.

[strangeling]

I think there are a number of variables which can lead to weight gain, not just over-eating. When those variables get compounded, then the harder and more exhausting it will be for the person to manage each of them. Sometimes instead of constantly battling the variables, a person will give up or give in....or just set other things as having higher priority to concern themselves with. After all, there's more to life than the numbers on a scale or the size of one's jeans.

Yeah, but...although I agree that you're right in that there are many factors, at what point then is the person held accountable for over-eating when we can just say they are fat because of x,y, and z variables?

Just as an example of what I mean, I was reading somewhere that our stomachs can be stretched to get bigger over time and that our number of fat cells becomes increased depending on not only genes, but also how much fatty food we eat when developing into an adult. And since fat cells only get bigger or smaller, then someone with a lot of fat cells is going to have a harder time getting rid of body fat and an easier time gaining it. So someone that is very over-weight might feel the need to eat from a big and always hungry stomach and might have a hard time losing fat because of a high fat cell count. And obviously these things are not controlled by willpower. But bad eating habits influenced these uncontrollable variables to emerge, so it's both in their control at some point and out of it at another.

Also, Calorie restriction isn't always the answer. We are chemical/hormonal beings, and we don't get energy by burning our foods over/in flames like a steam engine does. Counting calories is an outdated model.

This is an interesting point,
I kinda wondered how that's accurate when it doesn't simulate our metabolisms or account for different types of metabolisms.

[Satan]

calories in, calories out.

you actually have to be quite active to burn a lot of energy.

if everyone did an hour of moderate cardio a day we wouldn't have nearly as many fat people. but also getting more exercise can encourage people to eat healthier.

although getting small amounts of exercise can often encourage people to eat worse.

[Tigerfadder]

Key motivation element is that people look more attractive when being healthy.

[Satan]

i never used to gain much weight, but recently i've slowly been gaining weight and i kind of realised that i don't actually know how much food i should be eating to keep weight constant...

but i've noticed that i seem to not eat a big meal until i've pooped. which seems to mean my weight never gets completely crazy. (even atm i'm only going up by 1kg a week or something)

[Muddy]

Seems to be irrational types mostly. Perhaps that is because rational types are more likely to "screen" the worth and healthiness of food before eating it while irrationals are more likely to stuff themselves with whatever they feel like having at the moment.

[anndelise]

Yeah, but...although I agree that you're right in that there are many factors, at what point then is the person held accountable for over-eating when we can just say they are fat because of x,y, and z variables?

Held accountable for what? By whom? Why? And who's business is it anyways?

More direct answer to the question of 'at what point is the person held accountable for over-eating?': IF overeating is actually the, or one of the, variables to manage. But it's not necessarily the only/main/included variable a fat/obese person manages.

Just as an example of what I mean, I was reading somewhere that our stomachs can be stretched to get bigger over time and that our number of fat cells becomes increased depending on not only genes, but also how much fatty food we eat when developing into an adult. And since fat cells only get bigger or smaller, then someone with a lot of fat cells is going to have a harder time getting rid of body fat and an easier time gaining it. So someone that is very over-weight might feel the need to eat from a big and always hungry stomach and might have a hard time losing fat because of a high fat cell count. And obviously these things are not controlled by willpower. But bad eating habits influenced these uncontrollable variables to emerge, so it's both in their control at some point and out of it at another.

So genetic expression + food culture of custodial household -> (led to) to increased fat cells, full fat cells, and alterations in the person's chemical/hormonal processing before entering adulthood. Should the person be held accountable for that? Should they be shamed for that? Can one tell just by looking at them that that's a major part of why they are fat/obese?

So now, as an adult, the person has to learn how to manage
* the effects of the increased number of fat cells,
* the increased difficulty of burning that stored fat,
* the increased difficulty in maintaining a lower fat storage (increased hunger levels, hormonal changes, socializing with those of the previous food culture, etc)
* finding correct information (which diet? Low fat leads to some health problems, vegetarianism to others, paleo is expensive and has it's own possible issues, low carb has its criticisms, insulin response, cardio intensity (cardio burns sugars not fat and leads to intense need to replace those sugars QUICKLY, often leading to carb binges which effects insulin response which blocks body's ability to properly utilize the eaten food and sets the body to store it as fat), other hormonal interactions, etc.)

So basically they'll need to:
* spend time/money researching and experimenting with new food cultures (based on good/bad information),
* struggle more often and more intensely with willpower than those who grew up in different food cultures,
* while going about the normal day-to-day demands and stresses of life,
and taking extra precautions to not let the normal and added stresses negatively alter their chemical/hormonal responses.
* This, of course, presumes they are motivated to do all that AND have it as a top priority as it will consume what little free time they have from life's demands.
(But even motivation and prioritizing doesn't always help, because there's the problem of good/bad info appropriate to their genetic expressions and chemical/hormonal interactions. Bad/inappropriate info can demotivate, cause more health problems to deal with, cause problems when socializing in different food cultures, etc.)

Basically, weight and fat storage/release is not a one-size-fits-all-problem. And too many people try to shame the person for not having a simple problem of over-eating. Even worse is when it comes from people who don't/won't put in the same kind of effort and time to ensure their own health and fitness. (Not suggesting this applies to you. )

[Satan]

often gaining muscle will reduce fat, as it'll increase your calorie burn per day. as long as you don't just use it as an excuse to eat more

[Satan]

amphetamines, coffee, exercise are all easy ways to reduce weight.

[Kim]

amphetamines, coffee, exercise are all easy ways to reduce weight.

If that were the case, I would not have to work as hard as I do to just maintain.

[Hitta]

We live in a time period with really mixed messages. Either someone is calling you a fucking fatty and telling you to die, or someone is like.. it's ok being fat, keep eating, body weight is beautiful. All it does is create more neurotic-ism, which in turn causes people to be more overweight. The obesity generation has two causes really. Corporations struggle to stay afloat so they use cheap cheap byproducts that are loaded with carbs to keep their prices down. People eat these and it throws their hormones out of whack and perpetuates a cycle. Second reason is we live in a period where everyone is neurotic. Everyone thinks they have the right answer, the solution.... everyone is a specialist. And with this, everyone feels trapped in their own skin, hyper-criticized by the masses. A person goes outside and slips on the sidewalk and it may end up on youtube. A person has a slip of tongue, and the whole world is shaming them. This creates anxiety which in turn causes people to eat, it's a sweet escape.

[Satan]

If that were the case, I would not have to work as hard as I do to just maintain.

Maybe you need to make exercising more fun?

You could try:
https://www.contrave.com/

[Kim]

Maybe you need to make exercising more fun?

You could try:
https://www.contrave.com/

I work out most days of the week (running, weights, and yoga) and I count calories. I maintain my weight currently, but it's hard work every day. Nothing easy about it.

[Kim]

Funny, Contrave is basically Wellbutrin. Yeah I lost my appetite when I first started taking it, but that wears off. It was also not healthy not to eat at all.

[strangeling]

Held accountable for what? By whom? Why? And who's business is it anyways?

More direct answer to the question of 'at what point is the person held accountable for over-eating?': IF overeating is actually the, or one of the, variables to manage. But it's not necessarily the only/main/included variable a fat/obese person manages.



So genetic expression + food culture of custodial household -> (led to) to increased fat cells, full fat cells, and alterations in the person's chemical/hormonal processing before entering adulthood. Should the person be held accountable for that? Should they be shamed for that? Can one tell just by looking at them that that's a major part of why they are fat/obese?

So now, as an adult, the person has to learn how to manage
* the effects of the increased number of fat cells,
* the increased difficulty of burning that stored fat,
* the increased difficulty in maintaining a lower fat storage (increased hunger levels, hormonal changes, socializing with those of the previous food culture, etc)
* finding correct information (which diet? Low fat leads to some health problems, vegetarianism to others, paleo is expensive and has it's own possible issues, low carb has its criticisms, insulin response, cardio intensity (cardio burns sugars not fat and leads to intense need to replace those sugars QUICKLY, often leading to carb binges which effects insulin response which blocks body's ability to properly utilize the eaten food and sets the body to store it as fat), other hormonal interactions, etc.)

So basically they'll need to:
* spend time/money researching and experimenting with new food cultures (based on good/bad information),
* struggle more often and more intensely with willpower than those who grew up in different food cultures,
* while going about the normal day-to-day demands and stresses of life,
and taking extra precautions to not let the normal and added stresses negatively alter their chemical/hormonal responses.
* This, of course, presumes they are motivated to do all that AND have it as a top priority as it will consume what little free time they have from life's demands.
(But even motivation and prioritizing doesn't always help, because there's the problem of good/bad info appropriate to their genetic expressions and chemical/hormonal interactions. Bad/inappropriate info can demotivate, cause more health problems to deal with, cause problems when socializing in different food cultures, etc.)

Basically, weight and fat storage/release is not a one-size-fits-all-problem. And too many people try to shame the person for not having a simple problem of over-eating. Even worse is when it comes from people who don't/won't put in the same kind of effort and time to ensure their own health and fitness. (Not suggesting this applies to you. )

Jeez, you're so prickly. I never said anything about shaming and I don't care about that. Just don't think it's good to get people in the mindset that they have no control over their own weight, because it isn't that simple either. It's just fucked up when people try to influence other people in believing they have no control over their own body weight. Yes, there are factors and it's different for everyone, but just because it's hard for one person to lose weight doesn't mean it's hard for another.

Now please write another wall of text on how butt-hurt you are that some people struggle with their weight and I'm not sympathetic to it.

[anndelise]

Jeez, you're so prickly. I never said anything about shaming and I don't care about that. Just don't think it's good to get people in the mindset that they have no control over their own weight, because it isn't that simple either. It's just fucked up when people try to influence other people in believing they have no control over their own body weight. Yes, there are factors and it's different for everyone, but just because it's hard for one person to lose weight doesn't mean it's hard for another.

Now please write another wall of text on how butt-hurt you are that some people struggle with their weight and I'm not sympathetic to it.

Lol, i specifically said that I wasn't suggesting YOU were trying to shame anyone, and yet the above is how you chose to interpret the entire post? Lolol. Methinks you're the prickly one here.

[chrys]

amphetamines, coffee, exercise are all easy ways to reduce weight.

Coffee and L-Theanine is a well-reputed combo for motivation, weight-loss, focus, lower stress, and appetite suppressing too.