SLIs/ISTps and Extraverted feeling Fe PoLR

[jessica129]

I'm finally starting to understand Socionics and have some questions.

I'm curious as to how SLI's Fe Polr manifests itself in real life. How do Fe environments feel to you? Do you actively avoid them? How do you react to those that display it? Why does it make you uncomfortable? Could you provide real life instances in which you found yourself in this environment and how both parties reacted to one another? Is it your main source of stress? What is a dead giveaway that your Polr is being "hit"? How can one differentiate between Fi polr and Fe polr...what are obvious signs? How does an Fe polr come across in real life?

I'm sure this has been done before but I want new answers. I'm also a bit curious about IEE's and their Polr so if you're IEE, feel free to answer the same questions.

[tereg]

I know I've used this example before a couple of times, but imagine you were dragged to this and you find yourself in this scenario.



And channel that feeling into words.

[tereg]

Or imagine you were dragged to a taping of Oprah, and suddenly this happened.



Channel that emotion into words

[jessica129]

I know I've used this example before a couple of times, but imagine you were dragged to this and you find yourself in this scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPQbNoP5_s

And channel that feeling into words.

No joke, this clip brightens my day every single time i see it. Thanks for this, haha. That guy is all kinds of awesome.

[Slacker]

What bothers my husband the most:

Having to sit in a circle and discuss his feelings with people. We have friends who were going to some "couple's getaway" which was supposed to strengthen marriages, and it was mainly sessions where we'd sit in circles and talk about our relationships and how we feel, and as a group we'd all contribute to this event that would help everyone who was a part.

That is the most painful thing in the world to him. He doesn't mind if Fe comes up and it isn't expected of him - like if he hears other people talk about their feelings with each other or something like that. It's just when people try to drag it out of him, particularly in a group setting, and particularly if he's supposed to contribute to the overall feel of the group in his contributions.

He also hates work "team building" events. He really really hates that. He had one a while ago and came home a complete mess after it.

[Slacker]

ROFL tereg - I think my husband would have just left at the pre-Ellen dance thing. He would have at least sat down and tried to ignore it.

[jessica129]

What bothers my husband the most:

Having to sit in a circle and discuss his feelings with people. We have friends who were going to some "couple's getaway" which was supposed to strengthen marriages, and it was mainly sessions where we'd sit in circles and talk about our relationships and how we feel, and as a group we'd all contribute to this event that would help everyone who was a part.

That is the most painful thing in the world to him. He doesn't mind if Fe comes up and it isn't expected of him - like if he hears other people talk about their feelings with each other or something like that. It's just when people try to drag it out of him, particularly in a group setting, and particularly if he's supposed to contribute to the overall feel of the group in his contributions.

He also hates work "team building" events. He really really hates that. He had one a while ago and came home a complete mess after it.

This sounds accurate...I don't think I could endure such a situation. That'd be a highly anxiety-producing event for me. I'd be a mess too. I give him credit for attempting it, I would have ran the other way.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Rubicon]

lol @ Fe

[iAnnAu]

(Keep in mind I listened to these with no sound)
For the first video, I was thinking I would have just kept sitting down, and smiled at people. I don't mind if they want to do that, but don't expect me to do it just 'cause you are. Sure, I like to go out dancing, but clubs keep things dark - I never focus on the people around me, just the music itself. The other dancers are supposed to be my camouflage. That situation was extremely attention-seeking - the audience seemed more desperate to be seen as part of the dance effort rather than actually feeling something and expressing it spontaneously - and I would refuse to participate for that reason alone.

For the second video, I was thoroughly repelled. I have no idea what Oprah said to create all that gasping and hand-clasping, but it really seemed like people were trying too hard. If they actually felt that strongly from just some announcement, then they are unto aliens to me. You could tell me I just won the lottery, and I would be like "cool. thanks a lot." *Sometimes* I can tap into the excitement that someone I care about is expressing, and be able to show them some enthusiasm back, but that's more about helping my friend/family member maintain a desirable state (as opposed to bring them down by my normal non-outward reaction).

Channel that feeling into words? I have no idea what those people were feeling. Frankly, I feel uncomfortable just watching that kinda reaction on a tiny, blurry YouTube screen. It's actually a little weird to notice that I'm not even happy for them, just repelled. I'm fine for people to express what they're feeling in a strong fashion, but not *around* me!

[munenori2]

This reminds me of a life coaching session run by my best friend. It was the worst thing ever. Don't get me wrong. It seemed very helpful for a lot of the people there to hash out their inner lives in front of an audience, but it just wound up making me feel incredibly vulnerable. There's something about going around in a circle talking about your deepest fears and having an old lady sobbing about how her son cut her out of his life that makes me feel helpless and useless in a gut-wrenching sort of way.

When it was finally done, people were chit chatting and my friend asked me if I was going to stay. I was polite, but inside my head I was thinking a) I need to get out of here stat, and b) after feeling forced to share things I didn't really want to, that I would be perfectly fine never seeing these other people ever again (to date: success). Walking out of there felt like a crab escaping from a room of hammer-wielding starving people. Well, except that the food they were after was the core of my very soul.

[jessica129]

For the second video, I was thoroughly repelled. I have no idea what Oprah said to create all that gasping and hand-clasping, but it really seemed like people were trying too hard. If they actually felt that strongly from just some announcement, then they are unto aliens to me. You could tell me I just won the lottery, and I would be like "cool. thanks a lot." *Sometimes* I can tap into the excitement that someone I care about is expressing, and be able to show them some enthusiasm back, but that's more about helping my friend/family member maintain a desirable state (as opposed to bring them down by my normal non-outward reaction).

I agree with everything you said and had to chuckle a bit at the bolded part because that's exactly how I'd react also. This is the source of much of my problems, I've noted. I find people really take offense to this sort of response as they think I'm being "snobbish" or acting like i'm too good for them or some other nonsense when that isn't the case at all. People can be downright vicious when you keep your enthusiasm and feelings to yourself.

This reminds me of a life coaching session run by my best friend. It was the worst thing ever. Don't get me wrong. It seemed very helpful for a lot of the people there to hash out their inner lives in front of an audience, but it just wound up making me feel incredibly vulnerable. There's something about going around in a circle talking about your deepest fears and having an old lady sobbing about how her son cut her out of his life that makes me feel helpless and useless in a gut-wrenching sort of way.

I agree. I personally find it very odd to know people can benefit from such situations. Being in an environment like that would only make my "problem" much, much worse. I just don't feel the need to let everyone know my feelings--what business is it of theirs? It's almost like some people feel it's their right to know your every emotion and it's so very painful for me when people act that way towards me.

[Rubicon]

I've noticed with my SLI brother that Fe in moderation doesn't necessarily turn him off. Like my IEE brother and I can be throwing Fe around (though I guess I probably tone my Fe down when I'm around my brothers) - talking about emotional stuff, and he'll be really interested in the conversation and just sit there listening ... but just seems to have no wish to add his own two cents. I mean he can even be influenced by the Fe - be inspired by what we're talking about ... maybe even form a private resolution which he then carries out the next day or whenever. Not telling anyone until he's carried it out. I, on the other hand, wouldn't be able to sit there silently and not let someone know how I'm being affected. Providing I know and like the person .

Also, on the very rare occasions when he loses his temper, he really loses it. Not in a scary way, but you can tell he's not in control of his emotions at all. He can get super emotional about something when he's like that, but when it blows over, he doesn't want to ever bring the situation up or allude to it ever again. lol It's like it never happened - literally. I mean you know a lot of people who say things they're embarrassed about later, and they don't want to dwell on the issue later - but still - the evidence is there that it happened - a newly created tender zone being obviously avoided. lol But with my brother, it's just like nothing ever happened. No scars. No trace. No awkwardness. Nothing. Did I just imagine everything? :-p

[Rubicon]

Well, except that the food they were after was the core of my very soul.

Filthy carnivores!

Are you leaning back towards EII these days?

[munenori2]

Filthy carnivores!

Are you leaning back towards EII these days?

I have no socionics type. Pretty much given up on it really.

[UDP]

Or imagine you were dragged to a taping of Oprah, and suddenly this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSuGFxqOkPc

Channel that emotion into words

I've built up my Fe tolerance as this seems to happen whenever I walk into a large room or arena type thing.

Because I have Fe role, I just kind of "smile and nod".... it eventually dies out.

But it's still annoying. I have sensitive ears.

[UDP]

To be more serious, for "ME", it's more an inability to control my emotional reactions altogether. If they are positive they are positive, if they are negative I can't hide how I feel. It seems I have to "coach" myself into certain ways of thinking - at times.

Later on (or more recently), I'm learning more about people, so I can just sort of "understand" them, and kind of "not get in the way" of their emotions too much. Just like "yeah, yeah, that's good " or "Yeah... I see" or "Oh,.... yeah". So long as I can convince myself that I'm not pressured in a situation, I'm fine. If I just feel emotionally pressured to be a certain way I get even more ornery.


The Ellen thing wouldn't bother me that much as would probably start dancing. I would dance because I might actually enjoy dancing in that situation, esp sort of having fun with people I was at the event with (which is probably the only reason I'd go - if someone else wanted me to). It's not that threatening to me. You can have fun in those kinds of situations.

Oprah thing would just be annoying. I'd probably make fun of people going OMG OMG OMG. But it wouldn't make me want to kill myself. It's a good opportunity to tease someone.

What bothers me most is when people use "emotional involvement" as a means to figure out if you are "with us" or "against us". I'm going to be against you by default because it feels like I have to lie in order to gain your approval, and that's not cool.

[tereg]

.

[jewels]

that's really terrible to basically put someone on the spot who doesn't want to be! coaching is suppose to be one-on-one and confidential, NOT in front of a crowd. And people who don't mind opening up to strangers should be the only ones up there...I would have really cringed in that situation!!

This reminds me of a life coaching session run by my best friend. It was the worst thing ever. Don't get me wrong. It seemed very helpful for a lot of the people there to hash out their inner lives in front of an audience, but it just wound up making me feel incredibly vulnerable. There's something about going around in a circle talking about your deepest fears and having an old lady sobbing about how her son cut her out of his life that makes me feel helpless and useless in a gut-wrenching sort of way.

When it was finally done, people were chit chatting and my friend asked me if I was going to stay. I was polite, but inside my head I was thinking a) I need to get out of here stat, and b) after feeling forced to share things I didn't really want to, that I would be perfectly fine never seeing these other people ever again (to date: success). Walking out of there felt like a crab escaping from a room of hammer-wielding starving people. Well, except that the food they were after was the core of my very soul.

[Sirena]

that's really terrible to basically put someone on the spot who doesn't want to be! coaching is suppose to be one-on-one and confidential, NOT in front of a crowd. And people who don't mind opening up to strangers should be the only ones up there...I would have really cringed in that situation!!

Yep.

[tereg]

Now, to differentiate that to what I detect as Fi PoLR (and this is by no means the prime example or the only example to illustrate this, this is only one example that I see of it). There will be times when I will hear someone say something to the effect of, "Well, I don't care how you/they feel. That doesn't matter." Now granted, this alone isn't necessarily an Fi PoLR thing, but looking at it from the context of hearing someone argue or make a point and bringing in a person's personal situation or circumstances to build the case. I think that an Fi PoLR would be more apt to be quickly dismissive and simultaneously annoyed/frustrated at the lack of logic or wasting time making unnecessary statements about the nature of a given conversational topic.

So, think of the PoLRs in a directional sense.

Person A makes an "inwardly" focused statement about their own (or their own group) feelings or relative circumstances, and Person B hears it and dismisses that. From Person A's perspective, they are making a statement that is intended to be non-invasive and is not supposed to be directed towards Person B (i.e. "I'm not forcing my views on you, I'm talking about my own situation and my own personal experience", POV) but Person B interprets it as them doing exactly that (i.e. "Well what do you think you're doing by saying I should think about this person's feelings?", POV) It's a cross-up of interpreted directions. This is the Fi PoLR directional conflict.

The Fe PoLR conflict is when you have a situation where Person A makes an "outwardly" focused statement that invades Person B in some way. Person A intends for you to feel comfortable by promoting (in the emotional atmospheric sense) the people in the immediate area to do something together that will in turn make themselves feel comfortable (i.e. "All right, what we're going to do is we're all going to share a little bit about ourselves to strengthen our bonds.", POV), but Person B isn't necessarily comfortable doing that (i.e. "This makes me really uncomfortable doing this, and potentially embarrassing", POV). Again a cross-up of interpreted directions, in this case Fe PoLR.

So, Fi PoLR originates with an "inward" statement (or action), but an "outwardly" focused person interprets the statement as "outwardly" invasive.

Fe PoLR originates with an "outward" statement (or action), but an "inwardly" focused person interprets the statement as "inwardly" invasive.

[munenori2]

Interesting. I'd like to hear more thoughts on that.

[hellothere]

He also hates work "team building" events. He really really hates that. He had one a while ago and came home a complete mess after it.

ah i feel for him... i dread the possibility of "team building"



and that zach guy, what a legend, good on him for sticking through it (however awkwardly) lol

[tereg]

Interesting. I'd like to hear more thoughts on that.

I think that the reason why misinterpretation happens is due to the PoLR being in the realm of things that are "foreign" to the individual. Their mode of thought or valuing naturally goes in the "direction" they expect and interpret information and when information is directed in the other way, then the concept is lost and misinterpretation happens.

So it's not that they don't understand cognitively what's happening, it's just that it's difficult to relate to or understand the motivation of said "direction".

In this case, to an Fi PoLR the idea of taking into consideration one's own emotions or circumstances in the face of inconsistent logic is a foreign concept. They know what the Fi valuing person is doing, but they don't understand why they choose to do it and the thought of doing it themselves is also foreign. Also, they interpret inwardly directed langauge and actions in outward ways because that is how they naturally interpret information.

To an Fe PoLR, the idea of having to outwardly emote or express themselves in a way that causes them inward discomfort is smothering and is also a foreign concept why people even bother doing activities like that or why they choose to go to those lengths in expression. They understand what is going on around them, but they don't understand why it happens and would never see themselves doing any sort of related activity. So they are interpreting outwardly directed language and actions in inward ways because that is how they naturally interpret information.

[Park]

Fe PoLR

[tereg]

Love it.

[meatburger]

Jess i will read your questions in a few days hopefully, but Ti polr to me is very noticable when i try to explain something. If ive learnt something at uni that day i explain it really well but then ask me a week later and i can barely explain it. Could be due to poor memory though? If i actually went back and read the lecture i could flick my eyes over the page and understand it again in about 3 seconds lol. Not sure if other ENFp's experience something similar.

Anyway lets keep it to Fe polr. I cant really think of Polr hitting in this short time but ISTp's are typically pretty stony faced a lot of the time. They laugh and smile plenty but just dont get really expressive.

I know I've used this example before a couple of times, but imagine you were dragged to this and you find yourself in this scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPQbNoP5_s

And channel that feeling into words.

I shouldn't be here i should be studying but dude that was fucken hillarious. How he was kind of slowly clapping , I instantly wanted to buy him a beer. If that happened to me i would feel like puking. I read in a type description once that ENFp's cant really jump up in the air and go YEEEEYYYYY!! very easily. I think thats why ISTp's like us.

[tereg]

Jess i will read your questions in a few days hopefully, but Ti polr to me is very noticable when i try to explain something. If ive learnt something at uni that day i explain it really well but then ask me a week later and i can barely explain it. Could be due to poor memory though? If i actually went back and read the lecture i could flick my eyes over the page and understand it again in about 3 seconds lol. Not sure if other ENFp's experience something similar.

Oh yeah, I definitely do too.

[consentingadult]

what about women screaming in a roller coaster??

[Jarno]

Why does it make you uncomfortable?

Cause it demands me to do things that I'm not comfortable with.

Mostly situations, in which it is obliged you take part into something, with a group. And which has many Fe people in it, since if they weren't there, it would be an Fe thing anyway and we could have just relaxed fun instead of that anoying 'everybody plays its part thing'.

[mikemex]

Collectivists vs individualists.

[Rooster_Ferret]

what about women screaming in a roller coaster??

[jessica129]

STOP POSTING

[meatburger]

STOP POSTING

Ok will do.

[meatburger]

STOP POSTING

Very soon

[meatburger]

STOP POSTING

any minute now....

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Sometimes it's an unawareness certain 'Fe' things are required, sometimes an over-compensation. Sometimes a dis-regard for it, sometimes a clumsy use of it.

Likewise have to careful not to get too dependent on hidden agenda, unless around familiar Fi type(s).

This is just stuff for me. Heh, hope it's not too vague. I think what I wrote is great haha

[ann2430]

I know I've used this example before a couple of times, but imagine you were dragged to this and you find yourself in this scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPQbNoP5_s

And channel that feeling into words.

Hahahaha, that was seriously so funny that i watched it several times in a row. Thanks for the laugh! :-)

[jessica129]

My favorite is the woman @ 38 seconds...w-t-f. That whole audience gives white people a bad name.

[tereg]

I'll give you another clear example of Fe in action.

Andy Kaufman. Watch these videos.

















Every single one of these were pre-meditated. He knew exactly the reaction he was going to get at all times and he thrived off of getting people to react how he wanted. He was always in complete control of a given situation, no matter how bad of a reaction he'd get. It didn't matter how bad the reaction was, he didn't care, it was his lifeblood.