Typing

[Sisyphean]

It's always interesting to see what range of responses people get from the forums, so let's give this a shot

Member Questionnaire (1INT Vault Dweller)


What is beauty? What is love?


That's really vague and hard to pin down. Beauty is a transcendently pleasing and evocative unity of form and purpose. It reaches past the purely rational appreciation to engage the emotional adoration of its aspiration towards a numinous ideal.


Love is self-sacrificial loyalty, affection, and intimacy; and the choice to persevere in spite of flaws, shortcomings, and obstacles.


What are your most important values?


Group & Personal loyalty. Decisiveness. The will to see things through to their conclusion. Sublimation in pursuit of a higher purpose.


Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?


I am Agnostic, regretably. I have so far been unable to get to a point of belief irrespective of knowledge. Despite this I am a strong proponent of traditionalist and/or Sedevacantist Catholicism.


Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?


a) Carl Schmitt, Max Weber, & Ernst Junger.


b) Power is the ability execute your will in the face of objection and obstacles.


What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?


a) I've had long conversations about political philosophy, Computer Science, Typology (MBTI & Socionics), Aesthetics, Sociology and the application of mathematics & physics concepts there in.


b) My interests are all of the above and giving myself to a worthy goal.


c) Why not?


Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?


Not particularly, only as a means to an end (eg. most effective method to become more lean and lift heavier things).
Only focused insofar as don't feel tired & ache-y all the time, and look decent.


What do you think of daily chores?


They suck and I'll do them if have to, or put them off if I don't.


Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.


Movies Like: Sicario, Hell or High Water, Interstellar, John Wick, Road to Perdition, Life Die Repeat: Edge of Tomorrow, The Man From U.N.C.L.E., Master & Commander, Prisoners, The Raid, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Zero Dark Thirty, 13 Hours


Books Liked: The Wheel of Time Series, The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity: A Sociohistorical APproach to Religious Transformation, Ancient Germanic Warriors: Warrior Styles from Trajan's Column to Icelandic sagas, Behavioral Programming: The Manipulation of Social Interaction


What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?


Cry: Pets dying and bad medical dianoses in family for the obvious reasons. Several sublime Aesthetic Experiences, because the emotional evocation was intense and positive to the point of being overwhelming


Smile: Wildly inappropriate jokes, banter with friends, feeling like I've achieved a genuine understanding of a new idea, accomplishing a goal that I personally chose and set out to achieve.


Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?


Among friends and family where neither my opinions nor sensibilities have to be guarded/hidden--particularly if it's because those opinions and sensiblities are shared.


What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?


Lack of imagination, social avoidance, a little too proud/stubborn, tunnel-vision with problem-solving or making sense of a situation. I agree with and dislike all of the above except for the proud/stubborn part.


What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?


I can orient myself with a new idea/system/situation very rapidly, I say what other people tend to be thinking but won't say, I'm more intelligent than average, I'm persistent, I achieve what I set out to do, I'm intensely committed to what I believe is right and beautiful and to my group.


In what areas of your life would you like help?


Self-discipline.


Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.


My 50-60 hour/week job has put me in a situation of work, go home, maybe workout, and sleep every day. My reaction was to apply for a similar but different job elsewhere in a different part of the country.


What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?


Dislike: Extreme overcomplication of decision making, navel-gazing idle speculation, two-faced behavior, prioritizing accumulation of things over cultivation of personal bonds, extreme individualism, extreme inclusivity, nihilism.


I can get along with almost anyone that is honest and doesn't do any of ^ those


How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?


How do I feel about romance/sex? I like it. Specifically I enjoy a lot of push/pull banter and play in the pursuit.


Other than that I would like a wife that can keep up with the banter and play. Help keep a warm and pleasant atmosphere at home, and who loves the idea of being a mom.


If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?


My main concerns would be keeping them out of damaging environments of the public school system, preparing them to accomplish whatever is in their reach so that they can take care of themselves when we're gone, and never giving the impression that material wealth or success take priority over the family or your people.


The public schools are poison for the soul and the love of money (especially to the exclusion of your folk) is the root of evil.


A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?


Inward: "lolwtf. Where did your thinking go wrong and how can we fix this?"


Outward: "lolno. Explain these shenanigans"


Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.


a)I'm an American, middle-class, college-educated, white-collar worker in a consulting field.
b)I don't see people as a whole. I see peoples as multiple different wholes.
c)We live amidst an increasingly unstable, tribally hostile, society being fomented and leveraged for the short-sighted self-aggrandizing aims of a rootless class of Neoliberals trying to turn the world into a homogenized mass of undifferentiated peoples identified only as markets in a globalized trading system.


How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?


I don't consciously choose them. I just find myself spending time with and talking to certain people over time. They always end up being people that share the core impulse of my outlook, or don't care about those things and just want a relaxed positive vibe.


How do you behave around strangers?


Stiffly and properly. Sometimes with affected warmth and expressiveness if I feel they are more standoff-ish or hostile than the situation calls for.

[Memento Mori]

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?


My main concerns would be keeping them out of damaging environments of the public school system, preparing them to accomplish whatever is in their reach so that they can take care of themselves when we're gone, and never giving the impression that material wealth or success take priority over the family or your people.


The public schools are poison for the soul and the love of money (especially to the exclusion of your folk) is the root of evil.

Mah Bro :')

Al Cheers.jpg

Also, if the OP isn't like the most overtly Beta post ever, then I don't know what is.

[Memento Mori]

wew lads, can we get any word on this pls

[Sisyphean]

Why?

Things like keeping a tidy apartment, getting through particularly boring and uninteresting tasks, and sticking constantly to a healthy diet are things I've always had a difficult time with and it's the most obvious shortcoming I have that I would like to work on.

What do you consider the happy medium here?

Nationalism.

how do you market to a homogenized mass? wouldn't dividing people into various in-groups make marketing much more profitable. . . you know make sure those star-bellied sneeches feel extra special and buy more of your stuff?

There is only one permitted in-group of any measurable import: good consumers. What band logo is on your cheat t-shirt made by a Taiwanese slave, or which cape-shit franchise you prefer has no real significance since all of these consumer identities exist outside of what Schmitt would term a political difference. Any other in-group is an inconvenience reducing the efficiency of economies of scale for mass marketing of mass-produced consumer goods; and market disruptive as they develop loyalties that attempt to control the flow of goods (capital, consumer, labor), and control the behaviors of capital for their own groups benefit.

Regarding tribal hostility etc, in your opinion, who benefits from homogenization and who benefits from separation and division?

The same people benefit from both. A fractured society is a step on the path to total corporate-managed consumer individualism. If a nation has no coherent sense of self or its interests it is unable to defend itself and is interest. Who cares if your children grow up without a sense of community, or your 2nd Cousin ends up unemployed if it means you can save a quarter on a tomato or get that 2nd car you don't need?

The divisions are created and leveraged by the people for the dreamed of goal that the world will be a multi-cultural melting pot if only we can market the plebs out of their philistine racial and cultural identities to be good, fungible, paper-pushers sucking down their corn-syrup water.

This ties in again with the quesion of individualism and inclusivity . . . where iyo should the lines be drawn, what do you see as the ideal society? Where do you place the pivot, the balance point between the two?

The nation-state is the closest we have come to ideal. It appears to be the approximate maximum for a large stable population identity (a blend of the same culture, ethnicity, and language). People have coherent, sustained, communities and people to give themselves to. Social capital is accumulated as opposed to liquidated as we see in the current arrangements. Corporate consumer individualism produces social disintegration, and nobody genuinely identifies with "humanity" so any anti-political (Schmitt) artificial identity will reduce back to individualism and ad-hoc new political organizations. The globalization project is doomed to failure by human nature, and the alleged goal/reward isn't even worth it.

[Myst]

Beta ST ofc


I really like your definition of beauty especially with how it focuses on it being "transcendently pleasing". The whole definition seems very Ni+Fe.

And I quite like the idea of including persevering for the relationship in the definition of love That's Se ofc.


As for your valuing of "Sublimation in pursuit of a higher purpose" & "giving myself to a worthy goal", those seem like Ni HA (of LSI).

Your focus on "accomplishing a goal that I personally chose and set out to achieve" seems a bit Ni oriented too in the way it is for LSI.

The tunnel vision too, maybe.


How do you orient with new idea/system/situation very rapidly, do you have a description of the process or examples?

And, what do you mean by "core impulse here? "they always end up being people that share the core impulse of my outlook"


Your issues with self-discipline and your high need for pure momentum and novelty (as per your other thread) seem more SLE than LSI, though. Not that an LSI is always necessarily 100% disciplined either, but it just sounded Irrational-ish to me.

And your way of planning, loool, it was funny how you described it there:

"The 1INT Vault Dweller Planning Process™:

I want that thing
How do I get that thing?
I have to do this thing
Okay, I'll do that thing

I have to do this other thing
Okay I'll do this other thing

And this to
Okay, that too

Can I do that thing I want to, yet?"

I said it's SeTi (Se lead, Ti creative) because the logic (Ti) serves your wanting the thing (Se). You purely speak of Se objects in the foreground ("do", "thing") along with very high impatience lol. And there is no further consideration for logical organization for its own sake. Let me know if that makes sense.

Not saying LSI can't have some Ti serving some Se wants situationally, here and there, but if this is the overall outlook/view of life for you then it would be SLE and not LSI.

Again though, your need for a warm and pleasant atmosphere at home sounds like SLE more than LSI, because IEI provides for it better than EIE lol. Ofc EIE also creates positive atmospheres but they are not really um, calm and peaceful enough to make it all so pleasant too.

Finally, this seems like you wanting to control the Fe atmosphere a bit on your own (and I'd see SLE doing this more than LSI): "Sometimes with affected warmth and expressiveness if I feel they are more standoff-ish or hostile than the situation calls for."


Overall I wouldn't be able to say though from this much if your stuff is more SLE or LSI, these are just my notes and I can see a lot of common with you on how we think about logic stuff in terms of being able to get really concise in presenting the main ideas of an understanding, so that seemed more LSIish again.

I also think you have a lot of focus on soc stuff (Enneagram instinct-wise). It's cool you seem very well educated on these topics.

[Sisyphean]

Beta ST ofc


I really like your definition of beauty especially with how it focuses on it being "transcendently pleasing". The whole definition seems very Ni+Fe.

And I quite like the idea of including persevering for the relationship in the definition of love That's Se ofc.


As for your valuing of "Sublimation in pursuit of a higher purpose" & "giving myself to a worthy goal", those seem like Ni HA (of LSI).

Your focus on "accomplishing a goal that I personally chose and set out to achieve" seems a bit Ni oriented too in the way it is for LSI.

The tunnel vision too, maybe.

Awesome lol glad the sentiments were appreciated. And I definitely appreciate contextualizing each in relation to associated information elements.

How do you orient with new idea/system/situation very rapidly, do you have a description of the process or examples?

For examples:
it's not uncommon for me to get last-minute work assignments that involve travel across my state or across the country a couple days after I get the email, which means I'm immediately sitting down to book flights, rental cars, hotels, and arrange things with my point-of-contact. My SEI mother has panic attacks over things like that

By contrast to my father another example. There have been several cases where we've walked together into something like a completely overcrowded airport that had been re-modeled so that nothing was in the same place as it used to be. My father would lock up and and have to deliberately try to work out what happened and struggle with nothing being where he remembered. Circumstances like that (1) never make me freeze in my tracks and (2) compared to him I don't have a hard time immediately adapting and acting.

I have several co-workers that respond similarly to my father when new information that change circumstances come up, having to stop everything and methodically think through the new "lay of the land" which has always struck me as very bizarre, and like it's wasting time and causing problems for people waiting on you to figure shit out.

And, what do you mean by "core impulse here? "they always end up being people that share the core impulse of my outlook"

Primarily a tribalistic/nationalistic sense of self as a part of your people (family, team, or nation), of "me & mine," and "us." That the distinction between "us" and "not-us" is valuable, and important, and "us" is worth defending and devotion.

Your issues with self-discipline and your high need for pure momentum and novelty (as per your other thread) seem more SLE than LSI, though. Not that an LSI is always necessarily 100% disciplined either, but it just sounded Irrational-ish to me.

And your way of planning, loool, it was funny how you described it there:

"The 1INT Vault Dweller Planning Process™:

I want that thing
How do I get that thing?
I have to do this thing
Okay, I'll do that thing

I have to do this other thing
Okay I'll do this other thing

And this to
Okay, that too

Can I do that thing I want to, yet?"

I said it's SeTi (Se lead, Ti creative) because the logic (Ti) serves your wanting the thing (Se). There is no further consideration for logical organization for its own sake. Let me know if that makes sense.

Not saying LSI can't have some Ti serving some Se wants situationally, here and there, but if this is the overall outlook/view of life for you then it would be SLE and not LSI.

It does make sense and I can see what you mean. Glad ya got a kick out of my patent-pending planning process, cause that's the only way I know how to characterize it lmao. I feel like years ago I tried to lead with Ti for a lot of things like ideas, systems, and positions on topics, but a lot of it felt forced as fuck. Using a hammer to get a square peg through a round hole.

Again though, your need for a warm and pleasant atmosphere at home sounds like SLE more than LSI, because IEI provides for it better than EIE lol. Ofc EIE also creates positive atmospheres but they are not really um, calm and peaceful enough to make it all so pleasant too.

That's something I didn't expect, I guess because I suck at N. Wasn't expecting the lead Ni to have more of that effect on an atmosphere than a lead Fe. Is that a consequence of Fe being the creative instead, or something in a different block?

Finally, this seems like you wanting to control the Fe atmosphere a bit on your own (and I'd see SLE doing this more than LSI): "Sometimes with affected warmth and expressiveness if I feel they are more standoff-ish or hostile than the situation calls for."

I don't have much experience with reliably identifying different types of people in my real life to contrast things like that, so that distinction is pretty useful, because I've been wondering specifically how would I tell LSI-Se apart from SLE.

Overall I wouldn't be able to say though if your stuff is more SLE or LSI, these are just my notes and I can see a lot of common with you on how we think about logic stuff in terms of being able to get really concise in presenting the main ideas of an understanding, so that seemed more LSIish again.

I also think you have a lot of focus on soc stuff (Enneagram instinct-wise). It's cool you seem very well educated on these topics.

Thanks for the vote of confidence lol. And thanks loads for all the input and clarifying a lot of stuff. I'll have to go back and look into Enneagram instinct again. I've always just kind of gone with what others said they thought I was in that regard since it's another thing to sit down and chew through.

[Myst]

Awesome lol glad the sentiments were appreciated. And I definitely appreciate contextualizing each in relation to associated information elements.

Np!

For examples:
it's not uncommon for me to get last-minute work assignments that involve travel across my state or across the country a couple days after I get the email, which means I'm immediately sitting down to book flights, rental cars, hotels, and arrange things with my point-of-contact. My SEI mother has panic attacks over things like that

By contrast to my father another example. There have been several cases where we've walked together into something like a completely overcrowded airport that had been re-modeled so that nothing was in the same place as it used to be. My father would lock up and and have to deliberately try to work out what happened and struggle with nothing being where he remembered. Circumstances like that (1) never make me freeze in my tracks and (2) compared to him I don't have a hard time immediately adapting and acting.

I have several co-workers that respond similarly to my father when new information that change circumstances come up, having to stop everything and methodically think through the new "lay of the land" which has always struck me as very bizarre, and like it's wasting time and causing problems for people waiting on you to figure shit out.

Lol, ok I'm exactly like you there if that means anything at all in terms of type. In terms of willing to respond and organize these jobs fast and not having much of a delay at all. I'm not even sure how you'd want to think that sort of thing through all that methodically. Other things sure, not in these examples. (In theory maybe I can see how to go deeper in methodically thinking it through but I don't see it as very useful... I'll comment on that more below.) What's the type of your father btw?

But all your examples are like... very concrete things. When you said "new idea" and "system", I thought you meant things more abstracted away from such very immediately tangible things and situations.

EDIT: I've just remembered an example though where I did stop for a second in my tracks when some place was changed totally unexpected to me. But just for a second lol. Then I readjusted fine: it was the first time I noticed that I have some expected structure in place somewhere in the back of my brain, for going around in the place, and I just made myself drop it all and start anew. That was okay by me. Idk if you relate there, just mentioning it for the complete picture

Primarily a tribalistic/nationalistic sense of self as a part of your people (family, team, or nation), of "me & mine," and "us." That the distinction between "us" and "not-us" is valuable, and important, and "us" is worth defending and devotion.

Ah ok. Quite uh, stereotypically Beta, lol, and some awareness of Fe with the tribal thingy.

It does make sense and I can see what you mean. Glad ya got a kick out of my patent-pending planning process, cause that's the only way I know how to characterize it lmao. I feel like years ago I tried to lead with Ti for a lot of things like ideas, systems, and positions on topics, but a lot of it felt forced as fuck. Using a hammer to get a square peg through a round hole.

Hm how did you try to lead with Ti for those things? Like above mentioned too, I can see it as a hammer for a square peg through a round hole for orienting in some very concrete situations needing immediate responses yeah, but I'm not sure how you see it like that for other things.

That's something I didn't expect, I guess because I suck at N. Wasn't expecting the lead Ni to have more of that effect on an atmosphere than a lead Fe. Is that a consequence of Fe being the creative instead, or something in a different block?

Oh no, it's more like the Fi demo of IEI along with Ni lead being able to avoid too much conflict and smoothing things over instead. And yes it does need some Fe creative too to do it, to be able to adapt to SLE's current emotional state. Also, with Fe being in only creative position, it's not like Fe lead total drama queen lol. Only situationally a drama queen in the case of IEI-Fe's

I don't have much experience with reliably identifying different types of people in my real life to contrast things like that, so that distinction is pretty useful, because I've been wondering specifically how would I tell LSI-Se apart from SLE.

So have you been considering SLE as an option for yourself?

I did type as SLE originally lol.

Trying to type based on subtle differences though is not the best way, best to find the leading function, seeing how that determines most other things way more than any other IEs would, and also seeing how the dual seeking and the dual's leading function complements it in a way that no other type can do it.

Some of how I see the Ego function differences:

For Ti:
SLE will see logic as one way to make sense of experiences where they readily make sensory associations of experiences by default otherwise, while LSI wants only one (the best) logical explanation that's then to be applied to actions in the tangible world (in the form of rules for actions with the reasoning for these rules). SLE is thus more open to more than one explanation while LSI really just wants the one explanation that's best and isn't open to alternatives readily.

For Se (this is just what I observed):
SLE's answer to this Se question "What is the core of any force?": "Momentum." While mine as LSI: "Active and very focused energy put towards the object/into the goal/target."To explain that more, that means, I do prefer to channel the Se force by easily following a course with a strong focus rather than just being spontaneous with big momentum and with less focus. And as far as I observed, even if I am able to adapt in the moment to some Se challenges coming up too, it doesn't look the same as SLE's approach. Like in your above examples, I'd be a lot less fluid looking than an SLE even though able to respond fine and fast enough.

But I also talked a lot with an IEI about the differences in my type thread before, maybe it would be helpful if you looked at that convo. The IEI there fleshed out really well some of the differences about Ni vs Fe seeking too. But there are other threads too on the forum about LSI vs SLE / ISTj vs ESTp. I liked this one before where some posts differentiated between subtypes too: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...j-and-SLE-ESTp

Thanks for the vote of confidence lol. And thanks loads for all the input and clarifying a lot of stuff. I'll have to go back and look into Enneagram instinct again. I've always just kind of gone with what others said they thought I was in that regard since it's another thing to sit down and chew through.

Np again.

[Sisyphean]

Lol, ok I'm exactly like you there if that means anything at all in terms of type. I'm not even sure how you'd want to think that sort of thing through methodically. Other things sure, not in these examples. (In theory maybe I can see how but I don't see it as very useful... I'll comment on that more below.) What's the type of your father btw?

I'm not entirely sure what he would be as far as Socionics, but he's almost the quintessence of how I understand an MBTI ESTJ. Trained Statistician whose job is to analyze a business's processes, crunch the numbers, and tell them how to do it better/more efficiently.

But all your examples are like... very concrete things. When you said "new idea" and "system", I thought you meant things more abstracted away from such very immediately tangible things and situations.

Well I think I initially adapted and integrated the difference of socionics as a system contrasted with MBTI much more quickly than Luminous Lynx, but he's much more thorough about these kinds of things. So he catches up over time as I'm off looking at the next shiny thing, tells me something, to which I'm like "well....yeah? lol" and then eventually over more time he has a more robust understanding despite my pivoting apparently more quickly.

I tend to be able to much more quickly reverse engineer software than most of my co-workers, it seems as well. Tracing its execution and the implications of code are things that just seem to jump out very easily to me in contrast them.

Since leaving college I've had a lot less time to really dig into the nuts and bolts of many abstract systems like I used to when I was more politically interested, so Typology is the only example I can think off outside of computer science.

Ah ok. Quite uh, stereotypically Beta, lol, and some awareness of Fe with the tribal thingy.

Yeah I never really had much doubt that I was Beta-something lol. My stated views on things like that used to be much different, but I eventually "came home" to where I actually stand. More on that below.

Hm how did you try to lead with Ti for those things? I can see it as a hammer for a square peg through a round hole for orienting in some very concrete situations needing immediate responses yeah, but I'm not sure how you see it like that for other things.

I tried to focus much more on "what's true" and then chase after that and its implications for ideas/systems of political economy, or strict principled ideological conclusions. Because that's how the "smart" political nerds do it, you see. Then with growing up went a lot of the goofy idealist preening into a more "Nah, people aren't rational. People [see: me] align more with what will stir their souls than some sterile abstract principle". I'm pretty sure I can Ti argue my position moderately effectively as above in response to Squark, but most of that is just after-the-fact of what I just simply want. A lot of the moral center of where I come from on these questions remained completely unchanged, but I stopped dressing them up in Ti song&dance and got more honest about what I'm willing to do/accept for what I think should be.

Some of the most fun I had in those debate circles before I left them for good was having someone come at me with all their loquacious arguments and reasons and whatever for why I should do X and play along with their little dream system, and then just go "No. I don't want to. Now how does your little system deal with me since violence is evil? "

Oh no, it's more like the Fi demo of IEI along with Ni lead being able to avoid too much conflict and smoothing things over instead. And yes it does need some Fe creative to do it. Also, with Fe being in only creative position, it's not like Fe lead total drama queen lol. Only situationally a drama queen in the case of IEI-Fe's

lmao okay that makes sense. And you gotta at least have some drama lol. Keeps things lively and interesting.

So have you been considering SLE as an option for yourself?

I have been lately. Been having a hard time pinning down the order of the Ego functions. The descriptions Ive seen of PoLR Fi, Ignoring Si, and Role Ne seem to fit much better than Role Fi, Demo Si, and PoLR Ne. Pointless Ne speculation gets on my nerves but Stratiyevskaya's description of SLE PoLR Fi was a gut-punch. In particular the parts of LSI descriptions seemed to fit well, but things like the orderliness of LSI's affairs and environment were just way the hell off for me.

I did type as SLE originally lol.

Trying to type based on subtle differences though is not the best way, best to find the leading function, seeing how that determines most other things way more than any other IEs would, and also seeing how the dual seeking and the dual's leading function complements it in a way that no other type can do it.

Some of how I see the Ego function differences:

For Ti:
SLE will see logic as one way to make sense of experiences where they readily make sensory associations of experiences by default otherwise, while LSI wants only one (the best) logical explanation that's then to be applied to actions in the tangible world (in the form of rules for actions with the reasoning for these rules). SLE is thus more open to more than one explanation while LSI really just wants the one explanation that's best and isn't open to alternatives readily.

For Se (this is just what I observed):
SLE's answer to this Se question "What is the core of any force?": "Momentum." While mine as LSI: "Active and very focused energy put towards the object/into the goal/target."To explain that more, that means, I do prefer to channel the Se force by easily following a course with a strong focus rather than just being spontaneous with big mo mentum and with less focus. And as far as I observed, even if I am able to adapt in the moment to some Se challenges coming up too, it doesn't look the same as SLE's approach.

That's interesting. Correct me if I'm off-base, but the picture I get in my head is sprinter (Se) vs marathon runner (Ti). Unless I have a blind-spot or a poor perspective for evaluating myself I'd have a pretty hard time saying I match up with the latter.

But I also talked a lot with an IEI about the differences in my type thread before, maybe it would be helpful if you looked at that convo. The IEI there fleshed out really well some of the differences about Ni vs Fe seeking too. But there are other threads too on the forum about LSI vs SLE / ISTj vs ESTp. I liked this one before where some posts differentiated between subtypes too: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...j-and-SLE-ESTp

I'll definitely check these threads out. Thanks for that and all the extra input, again .

[Myst]

I'm not entirely sure what he would be as far as Socionics, but he's almost the quintessence of how I understand an MBTI ESTJ. Trained Statistician whose job is to analyze a business's processes, crunch the numbers, and tell them how to do it better/more efficiently.

Ah ok, so he's lacking the Se to adapt maybe.

Well I think I initially adapted and integrated the difference of socionics as a system contrasted with MBTI much more quickly than Luminous Lynx, but he's much more thorough about these kinds of things. So he catches up over time as I'm off looking at the next shiny thing, tells me something, to which I'm like "well....yeah? lol" and then eventually over more time he has a more robust understanding despite my pivoting apparently more quickly.

I tend to be able to much more quickly reverse engineer software than most of my co-workers, it seems as well. Tracing its execution and the implications of code are things that just seem to jump out very easily to me in contrast them.

Since leaving college I've had a lot less time to really dig into the nuts and bolts of many abstract systems like I used to when I was more politically interested, so Typology is the only example I can think off outside of computer science.

I see. I could see your attitude as the more "superficial" extraverted attitude (with you being off to the next shiny thing easily). The SW RE seems like just Ti in general (I actually relate to that stuff lol).

I tried to focus much more on "what's true" and then chase after that and its implications for ideas/systems of political economy, or strict principled ideological conclusions. Because that's how the "smart" political nerds do it, you see. Then with growing up went a lot of the goofy idealist preening into a more "Nah, people aren't rational. People [see: me] align more with what will stir their souls than some sterile abstract principle". I'm pretty sure I can Ti argue my position moderately effectively as above in response to Squark, but most of that is just after-the-fact of what I just simply want. A lot of the moral center of where I come from on these questions remained completely unchanged, but I stopped dressing them up in Ti song&dance and got more honest about what I'm willing to do/accept for what I think should be.

Interesting (regardless of type). Hm in this case (the topic you argued above), what is it that you just simply want?

Some of the most fun I had in those debate circles before I left them for good was having someone come at me with all their loquacious arguments and reasons and whatever for why I should do X and play along with their little dream system, and then just go "No. I don't want to. Now how does your little system deal with me since violence is evil? "

Lol, to that I'd have said the police isn't evil. How did they usually react to this?

lmao okay that makes sense. And you gotta at least have some drama lol. Keeps things lively and interesting.

So do you prefer someone who's only situationally a drama queen or someone who is always that? lol ofc I'm exaggerating, EIEs do have a lot of positivity too even if IEIs are more positive overall, still, I'm sure you get what I mean.

I have been lately. Been having a hard time pinning down the order of the Ego functions. The descriptions Ive seen of PoLR Fi, Ignoring Si, and Role Ne seem to fit much better than Role Fi, Demo Si, and PoLR Ne. Pointless Ne speculation gets on my nerves but Stratiyevskaya's description of SLE PoLR Fi was a gut-punch. In particular the parts of LSI descriptions seemed to fit well, but things like the orderliness of LSI's affairs and environment were just way the hell off for me.

Have you checked out Ni and Fe too? Instead of just superego/ID stuff. These descriptions are good: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov

That's interesting. Correct me if I'm off-base, but the picture I get in my head is sprinter (Se) vs marathon runner (Ti). Unless I have a blind-spot or a poor perspective for evaluating myself I'd have a pretty hard time saying I match up with the latter.

That's a good picture yeah. Your way of planning for sure sounds the former with the high impatience.

I'll definitely check these threads out. Thanks for that and all the extra input, again .

Np! What are your thoughts if you've skimmed them yet?

[Sisyphean]

Ah ok, so he's lacking the Se to adapt maybe.

Yeah, if Se plays major role in that for sure. He's good at process improvement, but he has to spend some time deliberately sitting down and chewing through the process/system in front of him before he feels like he can act.

I see. I could see your attitude as the more "superficial" extraverted attitude (with you being off to the next shiny thing easily). The SW RE seems like just Ti in general (I actually relate to that stuff lol).

If I had to guess I would have said that seems Ti, but whether lead or creative...

Interesting (regardless of type). Hm in this case (the topic you argued above), what is it that you just simply want?

A tribe and a god worth killing and dying for. The most precious possession you have in the world is your own people.

"'To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds,
For the ashes of his fathers,
And the temples of his gods,


'And for the tender mother
Who dandled him to rest,
And for the wife who nurses
His baby at her breast,'"

Lol, to that I'd have said the police isn't evil. How did they usually react to this?

Lmao well they were all anarchists so they'd probably lose their shit and call you evil like they did me when I said I'd shoot them if they tried to take my guns in pursuit of "equitable power relations." That egalitarian shit can fuck right off.

So do you prefer someone who's only situationally a drama queen or someone who is always that? lol ofc I'm exaggerating, EIEs do have a lot of positivity too even if IEIs are more positive overall, still, I'm sure you get what I mean.

lol yeah I think I get it. Just as long there's some occasional contrast to keep things from getting too "same-y" =P. My taste in music is very much like that. Some sort of noticable change-up in the tempo, sound, or melody enough to keep it from just droning on.

Have you checked out Ni and Fe too? Instead of just superego/ID stuff. These descriptions are good: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov

The Fe activating and Ni suggestive in your link is shockingly apt--to the point of almost spooky lol. Fe suggestive sounds a little right but not as much as Fe activating, and Ni activating sounds way off.

Np! What are your thoughts if you've skimmed them yet?

I'm still getting through them, and it's all an interesting read despite my day being hectic as all hell.

One part that jumped out at me was,

"As a summary, if we want to assume SLE is always in the mode of using Ti for the Se power based agendas and LSI is never in that mode then I must conclude that model is flawed because I'm between these two extremes... I'm closer to LSI though."

Which to me sounds like it suggests creative function subtypes (LSI-Se, SLE-Ti) produce a more continuous (not discrete) relation between the types. If that is the case, and presuming for a moment SLE, would that make a struggle to define Lead & Creative--just by the Ego block in a vacuum--an indication of SLE-Ti subtype?

[Myst]

Yeah, if Se plays major role in that for sure. He's good at process improvement, but he has to spend some time deliberately sitting down and chewing through the process/system in front of him before he feels like he can act.

Oh, I do have to understand some parts of a complex system for work before I can work with it too (so probably more of a lag there compared to you), but for navigation or sorting out concrete to-dos for travel etc, that doesn't apply, I can orient myself quite fast then.

A tribe and a god worth killing and dying for. The most precious possession you have in the world is your own people.

That's quite the Se approach to me. And here too from your earlier post: "If a nation has no coherent sense of self or its interests it is unable to defend itself and is interest."

SLEs orient that directly Se way more than LSIs. Not excluding an LSI can hold this kind of ideology but the reasoning would be a bit more Ti oriented I think.

Lmao well they were all anarchists so they'd probably lose their shit and call you evil like they did me when I said I'd shoot them if they tried to take my guns in pursuit of "equitable power relations." That egalitarian shit can fuck right off.

Lol anarchism...

lol yeah I think I get it. Just as long there's some occasional contrast to keep things from getting too "same-y" =P. My taste in music is very much like that. Some sort of noticable change-up in the tempo, sound, or melody enough to keep it from just droning on.

That kind of Fe input seems to fit IEI more than EIE.

The Fe activating and Ni suggestive in your link is shockingly apt--to the point of almost spooky lol. Fe suggestive sounds a little right but not as much as Fe activating, and Ni activating sounds way off.

Socionics is spooky sometimes like that

I'm still getting through them, and it's all an interesting read despite my day being hectic as all hell.

One part that jumped out at me was,

"As a summary, if we want to assume SLE is always in the mode of using Ti for the Se power based agendas and LSI is never in that mode then I must conclude that model is flawed because I'm between these two extremes... I'm closer to LSI though."

Which to me sounds like it suggests creative function subtypes (LSI-Se, SLE-Ti) produce a more continuous (not discrete) relation between the types. If that is the case, and presuming for a moment SLE, would that make a struggle to define Lead & Creative--just by the Ego block in a vacuum--an indication of SLE-Ti subtype?

Yep, I would think if you are SLE then you are the Ti subtype.


How did you relate to the SLE vs LSI comparison I posted earlier about Se momentum/force vs Ti systems? Other than seeing yourself as a sprinter more, did you relate specifically to either approach?


Also, one more comment, I could see this "Se animal" in you, just ready to let loose like this: "Ti-SLEs, especially the 3s, can seem very composed, especially in a professional setting, and have a distinct almost dangerous-seeming coldness to them, but even then you can see a tinge of that potential skater punk/surfer just below the surface, ready to cut loose at the first sight of ruckus." (From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post616718) Like it's just barely hidden under the surface even when you posts the concise logical stuff lol.

[Sisyphean]

Oh, I do have to understand some parts of a complex system for work before I can work with it too (so probably more of a lag there compared to you), but for navigation or sorting out concrete to-dos for travel etc, that doesn't apply, I can orient myself quite fast then.

I'd probably benefit from an approach closer to that. In a lot of cases in more complex systems that either have a larger scope than I can immediately assess I'll just brute-force it until i can "get my arms around it."

fortitude-mouse-maze-demotivational-poster-12605452076.jpg

I've been told "that's you" pointing at that picture more than once.

That's quite the Se approach to me. And here too from your earlier post: "If a nation has no coherent sense of self or its interests it is unable to defend itself and is interest."

SLEs orient that directly Se way more than LSIs. Not excluding an LSI can hold this kind of ideology but the reasoning would be a bit more Ti oriented I think.

With "Ti oriented" do you mean a more abstracted set of reasons and justifications? If you could give an example or something along the lines of your momentum vs Ti systems contrast more tailored to this? I think I get the distinction but I want to make sure.

Lol anarchism...

rofl indeed. Bunch of retarded middle-class chucklefucks.

That kind of Fe input seems to fit IEI more than EIE.

Interesting. My impression of IEI must be extremely Ni stereotype focused, because it's always a mental image of someone that's terminally mellow and zoned out 99.9% of the time

Socionics is spooky sometimes like that

lol I can cope. Those "oh shit, I really don't want that to true, but it feels too much like a kick in the balls to not be" reactions are the best indication I've gotten that something was right on the money in all of these articles. More positive reactions tend to make me suspicious and second-guess like "Is this actually me or do I just want it to be me" and I end up thinking myself in circles.

Yep, I would think if you are SLE then you are the Ti subtype.

Starting to suspect as much myself.

How did you relate to the SLE vs LSI comparison I posted earlier about Se momentum/force vs Ti systems? Other than seeing yourself as a sprinter more, did you relate specifically to either approach?

I related to it much more than I would probably like to tbh lol. Having trouble keeping up motivation for very long-haul commitment to some goal has always been not really my biggest strength, and when I think about it it feels flakey as fuck. Only 2 exceptions I can think of, one you've heard with college, and the other I won't go into except that it was a decade relationship with a woman that should have ended years earlier but I'm stubborn. Needless to say, I lose interest and wander off kind of easily unless something really consumes me and becomes almost a part of my sense of self.

Also, one more comment, I could see this "Se animal" in you, just ready to let loose like this: "Ti-SLEs, especially the 3s, can seem very composed, especially in a professional setting, and have a distinct almost dangerous-seeming coldness to them, but even then you can see a tinge of that potential skater punk/surfer just below the surface, ready to cut loose at the first sight of ruckus." (From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post616718) Like it's just barely hidden under the surface even when you posts the concise logical stuff lol.

Had another moment of "is this true or is someone mistaken again" cause I dug the sound of that, which made me start second-guessing lol. Checked with others and it sounds legit, so hey, hell yeah. If that's the impression I give that's fucking sick, whatever type I am. I'd ask for specifics but that sounds like something that'd be a vague general sense of things.

[Myst]

I'd probably benefit from an approach closer to that. In a lot of cases in more complex systems that either have a larger scope than I can immediately assess I'll just brute-force it until i can "get my arms around it."

fortitude-mouse-maze-demotivational-poster-12605452076.jpg

I've been told "that's you" pointing at that picture more than once.

Lool, I see. Are you not bothered that you are skipping the Ti for a while if this question makes sense?

With "Ti oriented" do you mean a more abstracted set of reasons and justifications? If you could give an example or something along the lines of your momentum vs Ti systems contrast more tailored to this? I think I get the distinction but I want to make sure.

Yes, using a priori concepts/axioms on what's good and then deriving the rest from there. I can't give you a politics example now though. (I'm not that deeply into politics either)

rofl indeed. Bunch of retarded middle-class chucklefucks.

Interesting. My impression of IEI must be extremely Ni stereotype focused, because it's always a mental image of someone that's terminally mellow and zoned out 99.9% of the time

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...e=IEI_subtypes

Fe subtype gets very emotional about stuff.

lol I can cope. Those "oh shit, I really don't want that to true, but it feels too much like a kick in the balls to not be" reactions are the best indication I've gotten that something was right on the money in all of these articles. More positive reactions tend to make me suspicious and second-guess like "Is this actually me or do I just want it to be me" and I end up thinking myself in circles.

That makes sense

I related to it much more than I would probably like to tbh lol. Having trouble keeping up motivation for very long-haul commitment to some goal has always been not really my biggest strength, and when I think about it it feels flakey as fuck. Only 2 exceptions I can think of, one you've heard with college, and the other I won't go into except that it was a decade relationship with a woman that should have ended years earlier but I'm stubborn. Needless to say, I lose interest and wander off kind of easily unless something really consumes me and becomes almost a part of my sense of self.

Ah yeah I see.

That was the Se part, did the Ti part make sense about seeing alternative explanations/playing with them vs taking only one systematic explanation and taking that seriously being very opinionated with it? Do you relate to either one?

Had another moment of "is this true or is someone mistaken again" cause I dug the sound of that, which made me start second-guessing lol. Checked with others and it sounds legit, so hey, hell yeah. If that's the impression I give that's fucking sick, whatever type I am. I'd ask for specifics but that sounds like something that'd be a vague general sense of things.

Loool yeah it's fucking sick, sure

Yeah, I can't give further specifics on it. It's just the energy I guess.

[Sisyphean]

Lool, I see. Are you not bothered that you are skipping the Ti for a while if this question makes sense?

lol yes, if I end up just beating my head against the "wall" for a while. Usually I'll get frustrated, rage a bit, and then calm down enough to get past it and get a little more methodical.

That was my pattern with all math in school and college, as well, except for Discrete Mathematics for some reason. Breeze through until I'm stumped, and only once I get past my expectation of just being able to do things easily think harder about the task.

Yes, using a priori concepts/axioms on what's good and then deriving the rest from there. I can't give you a politics example now though. (I'm not that deeply into politics either)

No example needed in this case lol you answered clearly enough without one. Thanks!

lmao that twerp folded like a cheap card table.

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...e=IEI_subtypes

Fe subtype gets very emotional about stuff.

Hahaha awesome. More weekend reading. I love this stuff.

That makes sense

Thank Christ it makes sense to someone lmao

Ah yeah I see.

That was the Se part, did the Ti part make sense about seeing alternative explanations/playing with them vs taking only one systematic explanation and taking that seriously being very opinionated with it? Do you relate to either one?

Yup it made total sense. I feel split on which I would say I relate to more. I can be pretty strident about a lot of things, so I can relate to being very opinionated about my explanations. At the same time when it comes to something that doesn't touch on what I think is right/wrong (vs true/false), like designing software, I can get stuck considering a hundred different ways to implement something and all of their different pros & cons and then not actually pick one until I get to the point of "fuck it" and pick on a whim. If values are removed from the equation I'd say I'm more open to exploring extra ideas, but when it's my "ego" or a perception of my competence by my peers I get obstinate about things. Dunno if that clears anything up or muddies the waters lol

Loool yeah it's fucking sick, sure

Yeah, I can't give further specifics on it. It's just the energy I guess.

lmao no worries. Not gonna press my luck and just role with something that makes me sounds pretty awesome for a change.

[Myst]

lol yes, if I end up just beating my head against the "wall" for a while. Usually I'll get frustrated, rage a bit, and then calm down enough to get past it and get a little more methodical.

That was my pattern with all math in school and college, as well, except for Discrete Mathematics for some reason. Breeze through until I'm stumped, and only once I get past my expectation of just being able to do things easily think harder about the task.

Lool, that is for some reason very familiar to me, though not with maths. I wanted to understand it all first there. And with a few other things too. In certain concrete but very unfamiliar tasks though I just go at it and then I can do the beating my head against the wall thing for a short time... then yeah, frustration, act it out physically a bit (typically a couple of seconds of kicking or hitting something, I wouldn't call that a rage), and then yeah I get more methodical about it. I can make myself patient actually when I sense the frustration come up, by making myself go more methodical if I wasn't enough methodical yet... but then I still have the impatience with the expectation that it work out fast, so then I might not escape the frustration+anger lol

No example needed in this case lol you answered clearly enough without one. Thanks!

Np, is this the approach you tried to force on yourself years ago?

lmao that twerp folded like a cheap card table.

Hahaha awesome. More weekend reading. I love this stuff.

Enjoy!

Thank Christ it makes sense to someone lmao

Yup it made total sense. I feel split on which I would say I relate to more. I can be pretty strident about a lot of things, so I can relate to being very opinionated about my explanations. At the same time when it comes to something that doesn't touch on what I think is right/wrong (vs true/false), like designing software, I can get stuck considering a hundred different ways to implement something and all of their different pros & cons and then not actually pick one until I get to the point of "fuck it" and pick on a whim. If values are removed from the equation I'd say I'm more open to exploring extra ideas, but when it's my "ego" or a perception of my competence by my peers I get obstinate about things. Dunno if that clears anything up or muddies the waters lol

That muddies them a bit

Do you absorb new perspectives right away or do you need to thoroughly logically process them first?

lmao no worries. Not gonna press my luck and just role with something that makes me sounds pretty awesome for a change.

[Sisyphean]

Lool, that is for some reason very familiar to me, though not with maths. I wanted to understand it all first there. And with a few other things too. In certain concrete but very unfamiliar tasks though I just go at it and then I can do the beating my head against the wall thing for a short time... then yeah, frustration, act it out physically a bit (typically a couple of seconds of kicking or hitting something, I wouldn't call that a rage), and then yeah I get more methodical about it. I can make myself patient actually when I sense the frustration come up, by making myself go more methodical if I wasn't enough methodical yet... but then I still have the impatience with the expectation that it work out fast, so then I might not escape the frustration+anger lol

lmao yup. I've broken more things than I care to admit in those moments of trying to work through "ego death" to where I can just get past myself and then sit down and work the problem like it should be and then get to the actual solution. Most of the time I attributed that to most things in an acedemic setting just coming extremely easily but if it's typology related that gives a new perspective to look at these things through and maybe come to new conclusions. I wouldn't say though that I "make myself" patient about it, though. It's more like I got it out of my system and I somehow worked myself past my own hang-ups and expectations unconsciously and now I can be zen as fuck about things until the end of it and then I slowly come out of that zone I was in. It's almost like the frustration and anger/rage is part of the process of crossing into the very cold and level "okay let's get to business" state of mind which is significantly different from my normal default state of being.

That muddies them a bit

Do you absorb new perspectives right away or do you need to thoroughly logically process them first?

I mean I want to say that I think I logically process them but I probably absorb them faster than I process them if I'm being too honest. It seems like it's a part of the process of evaluating the idea. Absorb it and see where it goes and how it integrates with everything else and then evaluate it. Generally if I don't like it on a fundamental enough level I'll discard it but if I can see a way to reconcile it with what I already value most above all I'll keep what I can and work it into the rest of my thinking.

Fuckin right. Quadra master race! (there's no 'solidarity fist' so you get a thumbs up )

[Sisyphean]

I've been drinking quite a bit so plz forgive any incoherence in what I just responded with. Though I'd like to think it's as honest and beyond any ego inhibitions as I can be, if that counts for anything lmao

I'll correct anything that didn't make any fucking sense tomorrow or w/e I wake up.

[Myst]

lmao yup. I've broken more things than I care to admit in those moments of trying to work through "ego death" to where I can just get past myself and then sit down and work the problem like it should be and then get to the actual solution. Most of the time I attributed that to most things in an acedemic setting just coming extremely easily but if it's typology related that gives a new perspective to look at these things through and maybe come to new conclusions. I wouldn't say though that I "make myself" patient about it, though. It's more like I got it out of my system and I somehow worked myself past my own hang-ups and expectations unconsciously and now I can be zen as fuck about things until the end of it and then I slowly come out of that zone I was in. It's almost like the frustration and anger/rage is part of the process of crossing into the very cold and level "okay let's get to business" state of mind which is significantly different from my normal default state of being.

Ah lol I see, tho' I don't often break things (only if I know I won't regret it later ). Interesting what you say about crossing over to that level state of mind by having to remove that anger thing first... what is your default state of being like? That's not that level emotionally?

I mean I want to say that I think I logically process them but I probably absorb them faster than I process them if I'm being too honest. It seems like it's a part of the process of evaluating the idea. Absorb it and see where it goes and how it integrates with everything else and then evaluate it. Generally if I don't like it on a fundamental enough level I'll discard it but if I can see a way to reconcile it with what I already value most above all I'll keep what I can and work it into the rest of my thinking.

Hmm idk what you mean by absorbing... it seems like you are already evaluating when checking where it's to go... unless I misunderstand something here.

Fuckin right. Quadra master race! (there's no 'solidarity fist' so you get a thumbs up )

Lol yeah


PS: you were coherent fine

[Sisyphean]

Ah lol I see, tho' I don't often break things (only if I know I won't regret it later ). Interesting what you say about having to cross over to that level state of mind by removing that anger thing first... what is your default state of being like?

My default state is generally something like "AH JUST DO THE THING! FUCK 'EM UP! KILL IT! YOU'RE THE SHIT!" Then when I hit a road block it's like going from 90mph to a dead stop lmao and I'm like "wtf!? why are you so dumb? This should be easy? Just do the thing!" then after I get through all the anger and the other shit and sit down it's like "okay, fine. Let's do this for real, I guess."

Hmm idk what you mean by absorbing... it seems like you are already evaluating when checking where it's to go... unless I misunderstand something here.

I feel like I take in a new idea before I evaluate it and use its integration into the rest of what I already "know" as its evaluation. If it meshes well with what I already feel is true or right, I'll find a way to accept it and work it in. If not then I'll reject it with prejudice (eg. "fuck this shit. It's cancer-aids and people that like it suck") lmao

PS: you were coherent fine

rofl awesome. I wanna be understandable if I'm as real as I can get.

[Myst]

My default state is generally something like "AH JUST DO THE THING! FUCK 'EM UP! KILL IT! YOU'RE THE SHIT!" Then when I hit a road block it's like going from 90mph to a dead stop lmao and I'm like "wtf!? why are you so dumb? This should be easy? Just do the thing!" then after I get through all the anger and the other shit and sit down it's like "okay, fine. Let's do this for real, I guess."

Lol, ok that's very SLE. Very stereotypically so.

I guess I relate but I have less Fe than you so it's not really presented in the same way... Because I have a decently level head at the same time actually. Just it's combined with impatience like yours in a way.

It is funny though how much your pattern here seems like mine, get at the thing impatiently first, then act out frustration/anger, then go on. The only part where I don't relate is that I don't feel I have a more level head after acting out. It seems the same as before, even if the behaviour does seem more stoic-logical in the sense I don't have another acting out for a while. I could later again tho'. Oh and... I don't feel like it's going from 90mph to a dead stop, it's not that abrupt for me... yeah, it's more like just a buildup of emotion without noticing it (the frustration/anger).

I feel like I take in a new idea before I evaluate it and use its integration into the rest of what I already "know" as its evaluation. If it meshes well with what I already feel is true or right, I'll find a way to accept it and work it in. If not then I'll reject it with prejudice (eg. "fuck this shit. It's cancer-aids and people that like it suck") lmao

I don't know what you mean by meshing... but I guess these things are hard to specify. I suppose how it is for me (for comparison if it helps), I either can instantly feel some logic to the new idea or not at all and then maybe later I can... or I actually judge it as illogical and reject it instantly - not in your fun way though, lol, just plain rational rejection even if it could get intense-heated in presentation. When I feel the logic to it instantly, I get it integrated then, but that initial feeling of the logic is the evaluation to me really. When I don't feel the logic instantly, the idea just does not absorb for me (Ti lead + Ne PoLR). Then maybe later it can be done, but it often takes a long time and requires investigation of more data and getting more experience too possibly. Much like this: "Only through learning can the LSI change, and grow to understand how something could work differently than the way he imagines it in the moment." (http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._LSI_composite)

If put this way, do you relate at all?

rofl awesome. I wanna be understandable if I'm as real as I can get.

[golden]

Your posts come across really open, expansive, forceful, combative, braggadocious, passionate, and heavy for an LSI 5. You’re in the ballpark, and it’s good you’re getting some feedback to refine your typing. I reside in the Beta zone across from you (EIE-IEI border) and have dealt with a lot of SLEs and LSIs. You front with Ti but there’s a predominant loose, offhand, ready-to-strike, look-at-me thing going on that is much more subdued with LSIs. Ymmv as this is the Internet hellscape and Socionics is organized witchcraft.

On a separate note, why are LSIs so good at drawing out what someone didn’t say? @Myst @squark

[Myst]

Your posts come across really open, expansive, forceful, combative, braggadocious, passionate, and heavy for an LSI 5. You’re in the ballpark, and it’s good you’re getting some feedback to refine your typing. I reside in the Beta zone across from you (EIE-IEI border) and have dealt with a lot of SLEs and LSIs. You front with Ti but there’s a predominant loose, offhand, ready-to-strike, look-at-me thing going on that is much more subdued with LSIs. Ymmv as this is the Internet hellscape and Socionics is organized witchcraft.

Interesting input as I personally see OP as not so open or expansive but instead surprisingly reserved, concise and abstract in some of his logic and even some bits of Ni besides the forcefulness and the short bits of braggadocious/passionate displays. I'm not sure if a male LSI-C would be like that - female one I used to know certainly wasn't as braggadocious, though the rest would fit her - but since he heavily relates to SLE descriptions and function positions over LSI ones, along with seeing clear signs of Se base, I guess SLE-Ti makes more sense overall for him.

I guess I'd be interested what OP thinks about these two options as compared to each other.

On a separate note, why are LSIs so good at drawing out what someone didn’t say? @Myst @squark

Just dissecting in analysis heh

[golden]

Interesting input as I personally see OP as not so open or expansive but instead surprisingly reserved, concise and abstract in some of his logic and even some bits of Ni besides the forcefulness and the short bits of braggadocious/passionate displays. I'm not sure if a male LSI-C would be like that - female one I used to know certainly wasn't - but since he heavily relates to SLE descriptions and function positions over LSI ones, along with seeing clear signs of Se base, I guess SLE-Ti makes more sense overall for him.

I guess I'd be interested what OP thinks about these two options as compared to each other.





Just dissecting in analysis heh

In his short time here OP has said what specific work he does and advertised a friendship with a forum member who posted photos of his face. He also has made his ideology obvious even if using terms like “tribe” rather than more hot-button ones. If I had to set out to uncover his rl identity I’d have a lot more to go on than if I needed to find you, even if he had a reason to be deliberately misleading, as there’s a trail. That’s more open.

[Myst]

In his short time here OP has said what specific work he does and advertised a friendship with a forum member who posted photos of his face. He also has made his ideology obvious even if using terms like “tribe” rather than more hot-button ones. If I had to set out to uncover his rl identity I’d have a lot more to go on than if I needed to find you, even if he had s resin to be deliberately misleading, as there’s a trail. That’s more open.

Lol well I'm a pretty private person. : p

Anyway, hm, what would be a more hot-button ideology?

By "open" I meant that more in terms of expansiveness btw.

[Myst]

One more post now, what OP said here "I feel like I take in a new idea before I evaluate it and use its integration into the rest of what I already "know" as its evaluation. If it meshes well with what I already feel is true or right, I'll find a way to accept it and work it in. If not then I'll reject it with prejudice" does actually sound like Ti lead and Ne PoLR, if the Se stuff is more like a Se front of LSI rather than the Ti being Ti front of SLE. Where I could attribute the fun presentation to the C of LSI-C. And then a question is whether the Se displays are just exaggerating the (doubly strengthened) Creative Se.

So hum.

[golden]

One more post now, what OP said here "I feel like I take in a new idea before I evaluate it and use its integration into the rest of what I already "know" as its evaluation. If it meshes well with what I already feel is true or right, I'll find a way to accept it and work it in. If not then I'll reject it with prejudice" does actually sound like Ti lead and Ne PoLR, if the Se stuff is more like a Se front of LSI rather than the Ti being Ti front of SLE. Where I could attribute the fun presentation to the C of LSI-C. And then a question is whether the Se displays are just exaggerating the (doubly strengthened) Creative Se.

So hum.

It’s possible it’s an LSI variation. I have chosen to take the contrarian position because I am exploring Fi a little bit.

[Myst]

It’s possible it’s an LSI variation. I have chosen to take the contrarian position because I am exploring Fi a little bit.

What Fi, OP's?

[golden]

?? idk. what do you mean?

I tend to see the evidence in front of me. I evaluate people. I model their behaviors in my mind to a future state. I am not as good at filling in missing pieces in the present. Sometimes someone will say something and I will reinterpret their meaning, like, “Can I call and ask some questions” last week meant “I can manipulate you more easily over phone and there won’t be a written record of it.” And I’d expected that move.

But if there is something presently unstated, tbh it often doesn’t occur to me to fill in that blank.

LSIs seem to fill in the blanks as second nature and I always am a bit like wow, sorcery.

[golden]

What Fi, OP's?

Yes

[Memento Mori]

Y'all don't know 1INT in private like I do. He fronts alot of composure publicly but he's markedly more loose, irreverent, mockingly playful, energetic, booming voice, booming laugh, merry-making and bantzy. We both are fairly guarded and polite publicly, and far more candid in private in general. If Y'all knew our political views we might get banned. I've heard SLE is apparently not as 'opinionated' as LSI, and that it's due to higher Fe, except I'm an Fe-ego and I'd get burned at the stake by most moderns. This thread is kind of a roundabout formality cause none of us are seeing the essential person, but that's the typical social issues with typology. You have to actually get to know a person to properly understand them, beyond superficial and cursory guess work conformed to theory, because what you're conforming to theory is a snippet of the fullness of their being - the tip of the iceberg beneath the surface.

We've been best friends for 6 years. We're like Brothers. I'm like 90% convinced he's SLE (more than likely Ti subtype). He's sx/so (we both are, it seems). If he's the most badass, cocksure, laid-back-yet-simultaneously-competent LSI ever I'm fine with that answer too.

EDit: Oh and Fi PoLR makes 10x more sense for him than Ne, and he'll personally confirm that.

[Sisyphean]

Well I think I'm sx/so after going back and reading a better explanation of what those terms actually mean, but that's something like 60% confidence at most. Input welcome there as with everything else. Working on specific responses to everything but there's quite a few and I'm slow getting moving today.

[golden]

Y'all don't know 1INT in private like I do. He fronts alot of composure publicly but he's markedly more loose, irreverent, mockingly playful, energetic, booming voice, booming laugh, merry-making and bantzy. We both are fairly guarded and polite publicly, and far more candid in private in general. If Y'all knew our political views we might get banned. I've heard SLE is apparently not as 'opinionated' as LSI, and that it's due to higher Fe, except I'm an Fe-ego and I'd get burned at the stake by most moderns. This thread is kind of a roundabout formality cause none of us are seeing the essential person, but that's the typical social issues with typology. You have to actually get to know a person to propery understand them, beyond superficial and cursory guess work conformed to theory, because what you're conforming to theory is a snippet of the fullness of their being - the tip of the iceberg beneath the surface.

We've been best friends for 6 years. We're like Brothers. I'm like 90% convinced he's SLE (more than likely Ti subtype). He's sx/so (we both are, it seems). If he's the most badass, cocksure, laid-back-yet-simultaneously-competent LSI ever I'm fine with that answer too.

EDit: Oh and Fi PoLR makes 10x more sense for him than Ne, and he'll personally confirm that.

I know them

[Memento Mori]

I know them

Well if that's actually the case then You get my point. I really don't relate to Fe conforming to status quo whatsoever. Sounds like Alpha Fe to me. EIEs at the least I've seen described as rebellious in many of the things I've read.

[Memento Mori]

I'm slow getting moving today.

Definitely not because we got fucked up hammered last night, chanting Germanic Tribal music lmao

[golden]

Well if that's actually the case then You get my point. I really don't relate to Fe conforming to status quo whatsoever. Sounds like Alpha Fe to me. EIEs at the least I've seen described as rebellious in many of the things I've read.

I tell people Fe is not about conforming to status quo, though I think it implies you have a damn good notion of what the status quo is and where you sit in relation to it. (Enneagram instincts likely would be a factor, too.) Alphas can be nonconformist in their own way. Ime more for their pleasure than for their gain.

[Memento Mori]

I tell people Fe is not about conforming to status quo, though I think it implies you have a damn good notion of what the status quo is and where you sit in relation to it. (Enneagram instincts likely would be a factor, too.) Alphas can be nonconformist in their own way. Ime more for their pleasure than for their gain.

Oh, Alpha NTs seem to delight in being contrarian to some extent (much moreso ILE) and I totally agree it's for their own amusement lol. Fe can be pleasant, appropriate, etc. Just cause we can use it, doesn't mean we personally agree with or want the status quo, or even other people's opinions. Cooperation and smoothness =/= Agreement and conformity imo. I can always feel that instinct tugging at me, to go along with the atmosphere, or direct it in a way that is common and uniting, but it rarely comes at the expense of me actually losing my own opinions.

[Sisyphean]

Definitely not because we got fucked up hammered last night, chanting Germanic Tribal music lmao

Well I was listening to more than just Heilung lol you're just a picky son of a bitch that that's all you would listen and rock out to.

[Sisyphean]

Lol, ok that's very SLE. Very stereotypically so.

I guess I relate but I have less Fe than you so it's not really presented in the same way... Because I have a decently level head at the same time actually. Just it's combined with impatience like yours in a way.

It is funny though how much your pattern here seems like mine, get at the thing impatiently first, then act out frustration/anger, then go on. The only part where I don't relate is that I don't feel I have a more level head after acting out. It seems the same as before, even if the behaviour does seem more stoic-logical in the sense I don't have another acting out for a while. I could later again tho'. Oh and... I don't feel like it's going from 90mph to a dead stop, it's not that abrupt for me... yeah, it's more like just a buildup of emotion without noticing it (the frustration/anger).

The 90mph to dead-stop may be a consequence of how I perform in academic tasks, I guess. Generally everything I've ever done in a school setting has just been default very easy, especially if I'm able to visualize the problem to work it out in some way. Mathematics is where most of those brick walls would come up (though never in Discrete Mathematics for some reason). But yes after I work out the anger and frustration there's a kind of "zen" feeling until I finish, take a break, or something knocks me out back into my default.

I don't know what you mean by meshing... but I guess these things are hard to specify. I suppose how it is for me (for comparison if it helps), I either can instantly feel some logic to the new idea or not at all and then maybe later I can... or I actually judge it as illogical and reject it instantly - not in your fun way though, lol, just plain rational rejection even if it could get intense-heated in presentation. When I feel the logic to it instantly, I get it integrated then, but that initial feeling of the logic is the evaluation to me really. When I don't feel the logic instantly, the idea just does not absorb for me (Ti lead + Ne PoLR). Then maybe later it can be done, but it often takes a long time and requires investigation of more data and getting more experience too possibly. Much like this: "Only through learning can the LSI change, and grow to understand how something could work differently than the way he imagines it in the moment." (http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p..._LSI_composite)

If put this way, do you relate at all?

With "mesh" I just meant whether or not the new information/idea integrates with the rest of what I know and believe without fundamental contradiction of a concept or value that I absolutely know or believe. I relate to the sense of a snap-judgement and not taking in things that get a negative judgement. I feel like, though, when I get past the initial "no, this is bad. Kill it with fire" reaction I can consider the idea and its implications on their own without the end being to accept them.

On that note I don't know if it's related, but I've known a lot of people that will default take a lot of people at face-value, or simply on their words, and I've more often than other people in my social circles been the one to call out that words and deeds are incongruent--that stated ideas don't align with the implications of what else they are saying/doing. It seems like I'm the only one that will sit back and consider if someone's stated program is just a bunch of bullshit.

This may end up being entirely off-base, but have you considered Enneagram 3?

3s disintegrate to 9 under stress, and integrate to 6 and that really seems like it might fit with how you've described yourself various places. Also, the quote you liked from that thread was referring to someone's impression of an SLE enneagram 3.

Since you've typed as 5, there's this comparison between 3 and 5 you might find interesting: LINK and you might not be a 3 either, but it's something to consider.

Huh, cool. I hadn't but I may, now. A test I took put 5 & 8 as my top two, but I'm having less and less faith in tests as often better reflections of what the test taker wants than what the test taker is.

Dunno what I actually am, but the consensus seems to be that I'm not a 5 lol.

Your posts come across really open, expansive, forceful, combative, braggadocious, passionate, and heavy for an LSI 5. You’re in the ballpark, and it’s good you’re getting some feedback to refine your typing. I reside in the Beta zone across from you (EIE-IEI border) and have dealt with a lot of SLEs and LSIs. You front with Ti but there’s a predominant loose, offhand, ready-to-strike, look-at-me thing going on that is much more subdued with LSIs. Ymmv as this is the Internet hellscape and Socionics is organized witchcraft.

You may not think you can read between the lines for what isn't said, but with the exception of last night when I was drinking I had thought I was being very restrained and precise (to the point of stress) in my presentation to avoid miscommunication. So I guess my concept of restrained is skewed of you are seeing things unspoken like Myst and Squark.

Interesting input as I personally see OP as not so open or expansive but instead surprisingly reserved, concise and abstract in some of his logic and even some bits of Ni besides the forcefulness and the short bits of braggadocious/passionate displays. I'm not sure if a male LSI-C would be like that - female one I used to know certainly wasn't as braggadocious, though the rest would fit her - but since he heavily relates to SLE descriptions and function positions over LSI ones, along with seeing clear signs of Se base, I guess SLE-Ti makes more sense overall for him.

I guess I'd be interested what OP thinks about these two options as compared to each other.

I'm putting what I feel like is a lot of effort into that restraint in part because I don't know what is or is not appropriate here

In his short time here OP has said what specific work he does and advertised a friendship with a forum member who posted photos of his face. He also has made his ideology obvious even if using terms like “tribe” rather than more hot-button ones. If I had to set out to uncover his rl identity I’d have a lot more to go on than if I needed to find you, even if he had a reason to be deliberately misleading, as there’s a trail. That’s more open.

I think I see what you're suggesting, and it's understandable, but "tribe" isn't a shibboleth. It was chosen specifically for its ambiguity because very very little of my ideology is codified in any way beyond "I want an 'us.'" If I was trying to hide I'd have not dropped "nationalism" in earlier posts.

Anyway, hm, what would be a more hot-button ideology?

I think she means racist or nazi, or something, Myst, but if I meant race I'd have said race. I used tribe as an ambiguous word because the idea I'm trying to express is a nebulous one. It could be squad, platoon, company, town, or country sized. The scope isn't necessarily the key point. It's the shared, animating, identity and common cause with enough meaning to be internalized as a part of the self that is worth sacrificing for.

One more post now, what OP said here "I feel like I take in a new idea before I evaluate it and use its integration into the rest of what I already "know" as its evaluation. If it meshes well with what I already feel is true or right, I'll find a way to accept it and work it in. If not then I'll reject it with prejudice" does actually sound like Ti lead and Ne PoLR, if the Se stuff is more like a Se front of LSI rather than the Ti being Ti front of SLE. Where I could attribute the fun presentation to the C of LSI-C. And then a question is whether the Se displays are just exaggerating the (doubly strengthened) Creative Se.

I don't know anything about DCNH so I'll have to get back to this one later.

[Memento Mori]

Naaahhh mate, I listened to that stuff earlier, Heilung is just best. Warbands of barbarians chanting and getting me fucking pumped. Se suggestive pls. I wonder if Se suggestive is why I love violence, martial arts, and extreme music so much lmao, makes me feel alive.

[Sisyphean]

Naaahhh mate, I listened to that stuff earlier, Heilung is just best. Warbands of barbarians chanting and getting me fucking pumped. Se suggestive pls. I wonder if Se suggestive is why I love violence, martial arts, and extreme music so much lmao, makes me feel alive.

It's good for a workout or to get amped up. If I wanna just have a good time The SIDH is like a synthesis of what I love. EDM, guitars, and folk elements.