Donald Trump

[Adam Strange]

In much if not most degree because of immigrants. When you destroy other countries, rob them and hence have more money, you become more attractive, may pay more and get gifted people on this money. That's the main secret of USA advanced technology.

Immigrants are certainly one component of the success the US has had. Maybe attracting immigrants is the main component, IDK. Two of my grandparents were immigrants from the area near Prague, and the others were from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. The US didn't pay them to come, nor promise them jobs, nor did it steal them away (as it did to many slaves), but rather it just built an environment where everyone has a roughly equal chance at success. It turns out that that is a lot better than what they had, and many people will "vote" for a better life using their feet.

I worked with a guy from France who had a lifetime job in France, but still moved to the US. He was a native Lebanese and an electronics engineer. He told me he had lived in France for 15 or so years and still felt like a visitor, but after being in the US for three weeks, he felt like an American. Everyone he met just assumed he was born here.

You should consider it too, Sol. I have found that the Russians I know are very well educated but have no opportunities to apply their knowledge or to benefit from it in Russia. The ones I know who have immigrated, Mikhail and Vladimir and Svetlana, are doing very, very well.

[Adam Strange]

While I'm on the subject, I think the best features of the US are those that reflect the philosophy of building a society that you'd want to live in, if you didn't know where you would be in that society.

We could hew closer to that line by eliminating all inheritance. If your kids could not inherit, you might be more interested in improving the public schools and the health care system. You might also be more interested in allowing people to rise on merit, and on improving opportunities for people, rather than trying to pass laws that basically say, "I've got mine, fuck you."

Eliminating all inheritance was one of the things discussed by the framers of the Constitution, but since some of them were among the richest people in North America, that got set aside. In the recent past, (1940's-1970's) when the US was most productive and income equality was highest, inheritance taxes and taxes on the rich were higher than they are today, and economic growth and opportunity were also extremely high. But then, a Republican renamed inheritance taxes "Death taxes", taxes have been steadily reduced on the rich, and we find ourselves where we are now.

[golden]

In much if not most degree because of immigrants. When you destroy other countries, rob them and hence have more money, you become more attractive, may pay more and get gifted people on this money. That's the main secret of USA advanced technology.

This is a nation of immigrants, obviously.

My family lines that don't lead to native Americans lead to immigrants, dozens of them, clearly seeking refuge and opportunity here.

The United States was an isolationist nation until World War II, and many Americans disagreed that we should be involved in that war at all. In the years leading up to and after that war, we took in many immigrants who were fleeing that very conflict. A lot of our great scientists and artists were Jews escaping pogroms and the Shoah in eastern and western Europe.

[Erk]

A nation of white immigrants for the most part.

[ConcreteButterfly]

I'm convinced Trump is an SLE. Watch his reaction to the baby crying, that's an example of Fi polr defense:

[Tigerfadder]

I'm convinced Trump is an SLE. Watch his reaction to the baby crying, that's an example of Fi polr defense:

That is just stupid.

[Tigerfadder]

What is the argument that Trump _values_ Se? Because he is a businessmen? How do you guys reason around it?

[wacey]

Trump EIE.

[MensSuperMateriam]

[Beautiful sky]

yeah after talking to Aylen in chat I'm totally convinced he's SEE final

[Jarno]

Well he pretty much looks like an SLE-Ti. He's dominant. He's agressive. He's quick with words. He's a general/military type. He's more go with the flow then tight and jumpy. It shouldn't be too hard to type him as an SLE.

[consentingadult]

yeah after talking to Aylen in chat I'm totally convinced he's SEE final

It must not be hard then to convince you that he's black as well...

[strangeling]

It must not be hard then to convince you that he's black as well...

He hires lots of black people. They like him; he likes them. They are productive members of society. He works with lots of good black folk.

Trump's a white blackman, duh.






















fyi, sarcasm

[Beautiful sky]

It must not be hard then to convince you that he's black as well...

lmao

[Jake]

I believe he's ENTJ...

[strangeling]

Oh, heh, found this.



Black Trump 2020!

[Persephone]

What is the argument that Trump _values_ Se? Because he is a businessmen? How do you guys reason around it?

Legit I am starting to think he is an EII besides he's got an elegant chin

[darya]

SLE ffs

[Zero]

Epitome of ENTj

You clearly don't know LIEs

[Zero]

While I'm on the subject, I think the best features of the US are those that reflect the philosophy of building a society that you'd want to live in, if you didn't know where you would be in that society.

We could hew closer to that line by eliminating all inheritance. If your kids could not inherit, you might be more interested in improving the public schools and the health care system. You might also be more interested in allowing people to rise on merit, and on improving opportunities for people, rather than trying to pass laws that basically say, "I've got mine, fuck you."

Eliminating all inheritance was one of the things discussed by the framers of the Constitution, but since some of them were among the richest people in North America, that got set aside. In the recent past, (1940's-1970's) when the US was most productive and income equality was highest, inheritance taxes and taxes on the rich were higher than they are today, and economic growth and opportunity were also extremely high. But then, a Republican renamed inheritance taxes "Death taxes", taxes have been steadily reduced on the rich, and we find ourselves where we are now.

This reply is so LIE-Te it brings tears my eyes

[ConcreteButterfly]

That is just stupid.

not the best example but I still think he's SLE

at the very least Se dominant

[The Reality Denialist]

SEE/SLE. SEE might make more sense. His inclination towards business and institutions is there and he has survived mainly through his contacts. I think there is very little logic in his actions.

I'm waiting for Great Wall of China v2.0.
via Imgflip Meme Generator

[jessica129]

I just want to put some cucumbers on his eyes

[The Reality Denialist]

I just want to put some cucumbers on his eyes

That is so mean...

[jessica129]

That is so mean...

LOL

What was actually happening?

[The Reality Denialist]

LOL

What was actually happening?

I wonder that as well. I guess it is not so likely to get attacked by flesh eating flying killer cucumbers. Or is it?

[ColdWindsRising]

From the poll, it looks like I found my dual.

[Singu]

Trump is obviously an ESTp, which is interesting. Obviously, his political alignments have nothing to do with types or quadras. This is strictly for analytical purposes and not a support or an endorsement in any way. Personally, I'm very liberal and don't really support him but I still find him to be interesting.

I'm not exactly super-versed on Trump, but I find it interesting that at one point he appears to be totally insane, while at other times he is actually quite sensible and show pragmatic restraint. He does seem to have some Fe values. It is his Fi PoLR that make him not being able to help him being so outrageously offensive - and doesn't appear to care about it (low dimensionality). He is unpredictable because he is trying to be unpredictable - probably not all that related to type.

He is very forceful and strong on achieving what he wants to achieve. He is appearing to do anything to get what he wants, and he is very direct and forceful about it.

I wonder if the Beta NFs have a better time dealing with him, as apparently Beta STs are very difficult to manage.

[Tigerfadder]

Who is this trump guy? And can we just not have Trump in beta forum for the next 4 years or so?

[lynn]

donald trump's Fe HA ?

[Jarno]

i think his wife might be IEI

yikes, this doesn't seem good. i can see how the trump can be a bit narcissistic. smile at me babe, yeaah that's good yeah.

[Aylen]

I was watching a recent interview about the Republican convention where Trump said the word "unfair" like 10 times in under a minute referring to how he was treated by Cruz. He also said "bad people" more times than I could count in the same interview.... bad people, unfair, bad people, unfair....

I watched his face as his son spoke very good things about him, after Cruz left him hanging and made him look foolish. Trump looked seriously hurt. He could not even change his own mood to match the speech his son was giving. He couldn't even enjoy it which makes me think now more than ever that Trump is an Fi ego or at the very least Fi valuer.

He is very focused on his own feelings and he admires Se (true but I admire Ni in others). His Fe might be 4D as a demonstrative function. I have never known an SLE (I know a few) who would show such whiny vulnerability in the public eye. I don't know any that I recall crying about how unfair they were being treated because it shows "weakness". I see that more in ethical types than logical types. The whole "bad people" thing he has going on points more to Fi ego, imo. I am good with him being SEE.

SLE typings for Trump just doesn't sit right with me. Everything about him contradicts the SLE I know and I just can't reconcile this typing. They are Fi polr so all this Fi I see in Trump doesn't add up. Trump is not logical at all. Anything he says that even hints at being logical is read off a teleprompter. Otherwise you get stuff like "bad people", "unfair" and:

Trump: "I'm Speaking to Myself" About Foreign Policy, I "Have a Very Good Brain" and "Instinct"



His "very good brain" is Ti polr, imo. His Fi is "speaking to myself" and his "instinct" is his Se.

Now he does a press conference where he openly states that he hopes that Russia finds Hillary's emails. WTF, that is such a bad move. Totally illogical and poor strategy. REALLY STUPID STRATEGY based on his emotions, not logic. I know this and I am supposed to be weak in Te and Ti. He has no control over his strong feelings. If he were SLE I can't imagine that his emotions would override his logic. I know it happens but usually in private. Not when trying to achieve such a lofty goal. I just see his weaknesses every time he speaks. He doesn't even try to hide them.


I am wondering what kind of SLE people here know, irl. This is not SLE.

I have considered EIE for him too and it is not a bad guess but I have been watching him for months and I still think SEE is a better typing and explains why so many want to type him SLE. EIE are smoother and have better control of their emotions, imo. EIE are more "elegant".

I still feel he values Fi>Fe. You are just typing him based on nonverbal clues. I have watched and listened for months.

No offense but I do not trust your intuition over my own and you should realize that by now. If you paid attention I think you would notice that Trump does not actually value Fe. He values Fi and his Ni is not very good. He looks for it in other people and he is constantly talking about people who can help him in such matters as foreign policy. He should know this stuff for himself. EIE are much better at it. He makes "predictions", some come true. So what? Lots of people do that. He uses Ne as a role function.





His Se is not HA like an EIE.



Trump does not want someone to "stand their ground" against him. He wants to bulldoze them until they submit and if they don't he throws a hissy fit. An EIE who is sure of their opinions is less likely to throw a hissy fit. They are way more persuasive and calculated than Trump is. They are more likely to just look down on you. Not saying all EIE will. Bush makes more sense as an EIE than Trump.
He knew when to keep his mouth shut and let others handle things he couldn't. NPD Trump says:



Keep at it. It is good you recognize he is ethical. You are one short step away from SEE. Do not condescend to me. Thanks. <3

Adding to my previous Trump observations. It occurred to me this morning, while thinking about something unrelated, that Trump could not possibly have 4D Te. It is more likely that his Te is HA and almost as bad as his Ti.

Extroverted Logic (Te, )

SEEs are often industrious and can in working situations expend large amounts of effort towards their goals. They may be constantly take proactive action and seek out new information on their topics of interest. They may tend to flaunt the information they gather and may sometimes assume that the knowledge they have accumulated is infallible. They also may jump into attacking a problem with minimal preparation and may in some circumstances fail to acknowledge the futility of their proactive expenditures.

SEEs often seek out conceptual clarity from others, and may tend to expect others to assist them in accumulating and making sense of the world around them. They may come to be good at mining new information, but they often lack confidence in their ability to collect pertinent information and navigate the outside world with it in mind, especially on unfamiliar topics. They tend to be especially unskilled at analyzing new factual information in an appropriate context. Typically, SEEs feel that it is more important to apply information than to gather and extend it, and they may push what they know to make a concrete impact on others around them. They depend on the guidance of others to forge and refine the applications of their industries.

Introverted Logic (Ti, )

SEEs generally exhibit chaotic and uncontrolled lifestyles. They are motivated by their impulses and momentary feelings, and may have difficulty carrying themselves to fulfill day-to-day obligations and responsibilities. To the extent that their external obligations permit it, they tend to be habitually unstructured and vagarious. They do not engage in systematic decision-making and may instead base their behaviors on whimsical desires. They avoid restricting or regimenting their lifestyles based on rational or "common sense" behaviors and can resist attempts to bring order and stability to their lives.

They may have difficulty following externally imposed rules on their behavior, and may automatically resist being told what to do in matters pertaining to their lifestyle. They may have difficulty adapting their naturally impetuous lifestyle to some situations. Convincing them to change their ways is a gradual, tiresome and often thankless process, best accomplished by persons whose judgment they trust fully.

SEEs are often inclined to disregard what they see as petty rules and procedures, especially if those require a high investment of time and concentration in order to be understood and implemented, while blocking the SEEs from achieving their goals. If they are suddenly stopped in their tracks by external forces because of a previous disregard for such rules, they can lash out in frustration and impatience, while feeling helpless and angry at having been so sidetracked.

If dimensional strength is even a thing, his Ti and Te are weak, the way I see it. I am not going into it all again because I already have in this thread. He doesn't even know where the system is truly broken which points away from stronger Ti. In my own head I see all the parts just fall into place and through my own perception I see the whole so clearly. I am not trying to convince anyone since that would be futile. Posting this to keep track of my own realizations.

Trump: 'I am the most fabulous whiner'



I can't stand a whiner and that is pretty much all he does. lol

I don’t understand the comparison of Trump to ******, because every time I look at Trump I see Napoleon. I’ll show you what I mean. This is a fact: Napoleon Bonaparte developed his battle plans in a sandbox. Using this method, he could change his plan of attack with his index finger; he could brush away bad strategies with the palm of his hand. The personality complex that consists of power trips and false machismo that defined Napoleon define Trump.

“Great ambition is the passion of a great character. Those endowed with it may perform very good or very bad acts. All depends on the principles which direct them.” — Napoleon Bonaparte.

This is what frightens me about Trump. His principles are bankrupt. He transmits hate. He is a vicious purveyor of fear politics, and he understands a major tenet of Napoleon’s philosophy: “Men are more easily governed through their vices than through their virtues.”
Trump’s exultation of racism, his open prejudice and his dislike of foreigners have rallied the myopic, fed-up America. Fed up with what? Yikes!

Here’s a quiz: Who said the following? Napoleon or Trump? “Women are nothing but machines for producing children.” If you guessed “both,” you are correct. Napoleon said, “If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.” This, too, is Donald Trump. Here’s one that Trump should pin to his lapel: “Public opinion is the thermometer a monarch should constantly consult.”


"Trump isn’t ******. He’s not deep underground with advisers plotting strategy. Trump is Napoleon. He plays in the sandbox all by himself. He builds castles, walls and mountains and puts lots of little plastic Trump-supporter-soldiers everywhere, all upside-down and with their heads stuck in the sand. And then Trump knocks them all down."

http://www.news-leader.com/story/opi...tler/90816386/

^ is rolling over in his grave.




Ok, I have had my fun.

[Aylen]

It must not be hard then to convince you that he's black as well...

Dude, did you consider that I might have made a convincing argument?! She is not exactly an easy person to sway when it comes to her own typings vs someone else's. Give me some credit. hmmph!

I was just looking at some posts made after I jumped out of this thread.

[Resonare]

ESTp.

[Chae]

Can't see the 4D in him, really, and he's fairly consistent over the years in what he strategizes, PoLR not being very likely. All of the "art of the deal" stuff, man... that's more . SLE-Se from here.

[Jake]

Yes SLE

[Aylen]

Can't see the 4D in him, really, and he's fairly consistent over the years in what he strategizes, PoLR not being very likely. All of the "art of the deal" stuff, man... that's more . SLE-Se from here.

I can see 4D Fe even if he doesn't value it.

“The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves. but they can get very excited by those who do. That is why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest, the greatest and the most spectacular.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal

[Chae]

I can see 4D Fe even if he doesn't value it.

“The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves. but they can get very excited by those who do. That is why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest, the greatest and the most spectacular.”
― Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal

Good example of his Fe - but it comes with his Beta grandeur antics, and it's very valued. 4D Fe would extend beyond just promoting yourself through initiating emotional arousal. "Little hyperbole" would be too weak for demonstrative Fe. Does he say something more in this text part? The context would be interesting.

[Aylen]

Good example of his Fe - but it comes with his Beta grandeur antics, and it's very valued. 4D Fe would extend beyond just promoting yourself through initiating emotional arousal. "Little hyperbole" would be too weak for demonstrative Fe. Does he say something more in this text part? The context would be interesting.

I looked through quotes from "art of the deal". Oh, I also can be competitive and like to win.

A friend of Axios took the time to read Trump's 1987 book "Art of the Deal." Here are the passages that stood out now that Trump is president:

1. On a daily schedule: "I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."
2. On critics: "The way I see it, critics get to say what they want to about my work, so why shouldn't I be able to say what I want to about theirs?"
3. On flexibility: "I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first."
4. On the press: "One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It's in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.
5. On bad press: [F]rom a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It's really quite simple ... The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business."
6. On exaggeration: "The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion."
7. On fighting back: "[W]hen people treat me badly or unfairly or try to take advantage of me, my general attitude, all my life, has been to fight back very hard. The risk is you'll make a bad situation worse, and I certainly don't recommend this approach to everyone. But my experience is that if you're fighting for something you believe in — even if it means alienating some people along the way — things usually work out for the best in the end."
8. On results: "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."
9. On competing: "I'm the first to admit that I am very competitive and that I'll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win. Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition."

People have caught on to him not delivering the goods. That's why he is constantly litigating. :/

[Chae]

I looked through quotes from "art of the deal". Oh, I also can be competitive and like to win.

A friend of Axios took the time to read Trump's 1987 book "Art of the Deal." Here are the passages that stood out now that Trump is president:

1. On a daily schedule: "I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."
2. On critics: "The way I see it, critics get to say what they want to about my work, so why shouldn't I be able to say what I want to about theirs?"
3. On flexibility: "I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first."
4. On the press: "One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It's in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.
5. On bad press: [F]rom a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It's really quite simple ... The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business."
6. On exaggeration: "The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion."
7. On fighting back: "[W]hen people treat me badly or unfairly or try to take advantage of me, my general attitude, all my life, has been to fight back very hard. The risk is you'll make a bad situation worse, and I certainly don't recommend this approach to everyone. But my experience is that if you're fighting for something you believe in — even if it means alienating some people along the way — things usually work out for the best in the end."
8. On results: "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."
9. On competing: "I'm the first to admit that I am very competitive and that I'll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win. Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition."

Ahhh cool! I tried to get some impressions from this, very useful.

1) Ep temperament
2) Se
3) Ne
4) Fe, Se
5) Te "stabbing" Fi
6) Fe, Te
7) Se, Fe, Ni, and Fi --> alienation, idk what to make of that
8) Fe, Te, Se
9) Se, Ti, Fe