so this ENFj girl has a crush on me.. an INTj (semi-duality)

[JohnSmith]

I had an ENFJ girl who I believe had a crush on me, or still does. The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

She still acts somewhat shy around me when she first makes eye contact with me.

Do you think she likes me, and what kind of bait should I put on my hook if she does? O.o

[UDP]

Step 1: do you know what socionics is?

[aestrivex]

all ENFjs are suicidal maniacs. your only chance is to kill her before she kills you.

[Darkstar]

The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

You know the problem. You know the cause.

What the fuck are you waiting for? A kick in the ass?

[Jarno]

The ENFJ's I know are pretty friendly, you can easely talk to them, and they are even somewhat interested in small intellectual talk.

[JohnSmith]

The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

You know the problem. You know the cause.

What the fuck are you waiting for? A kick in the ass?

Some small degree of assurance the reason she is acting shy around me is because she has a crush on me as opposed to her thinking I'm some unemotional weird-ass freak? It wouldn't be the first time my severely strong intuition has misguided me into a burning building.

[Darkstar]

I still see the same problem and solution.

How come you don't?

[machintruc]

all ENFjs are suicidal maniacs. your only chance is to kill her before she kills you.

My mother is EIE, and she's not suicidal.

[idealistichick]

I had an ENFJ girl who I believe had a crush on me, or still does. The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

She still acts somewhat shy around me when she first makes eye contact with me.

Do you think she likes me, and what kind of bait should I put on my hook if she does? O.o

that's wat i do sometimes with guys i like so it seems like she likes you...if she likes you just go up to her and start having a normal conversation with her and she'll end up making the biggest deal out of it...She'll be flattered that you're taking initiative and try to talk to her on an emotional level....

all ENFjs are suicidal maniacs. your only chance is to kill her before she kills you.

and we're not all suicidal ...most of us are pretty perky thank you very much

[Kristiina]

yeah, I agree with onetree. She probably acts like that because she likes you.

I know that I act flirty with guys that I feel are somewhat beneath me - I have no fear. I can do what I want. I can be a tease if I want. But I act very shy around guys I actually like. I can't just say whatever. And whenever I look at them, I look in their eyes (I can't help it), but I am afraid of them actually noticing because it would put me in a very vulnerable position. That's why I try to balance out the "deep looks" with avoidance. I act somewhat annoyed when the person is nearby. My voice gets forcefully confident and somewhat dry, I act a bit stuck-up, I leave the room quicker than I otherwise would have. That happens with both long-time crushes and with people I just consider very attractive. I have even noticed that I tend to get the strict and stuck-up body language when I pass an attractive person on the street.

You have to take initiative. If you misread the signals, then the worst thing that could happen is that she'll start acting slightly flirty near you, because she likes the admiration. Good luck.

[JohnSmith]

yeah, I agree with onetree. She probably acts like that because she likes you.

I know that I act flirty with guys that I feel are somewhat beneath me - I have no fear. I can do what I want. I can be a tease if I want. But I act very shy around guys I actually like. I can't just say whatever. And whenever I look at them, I look in their eyes (I can't help it), but I am afraid of them actually noticing because it would put me in a very vulnerable position. That's why I try to balance out the "deep looks" with avoidance. I act somewhat annoyed when the person is nearby. My voice gets forcefully confident and somewhat dry, I act a bit stuck-up, I leave the room quicker than I otherwise would have. That happens with both long-time crushes and with people I just consider very attractive. I have even noticed that I tend to get the strict and stuck-up body language when I pass an attractive person on the street.

You have to take initiative. If you misread the signals, then the worst thing that could happen is that she'll start acting slightly flirty near you, because she likes the admiration. Good luck.

I can give a few examples which irritate me. Mixed signals are irritating. Then again, I have a hard time imagining something from a feeler's perspective.

Her and a group of my friends would play cards, but instead of staying, she'd often just get up and leave halfway through, which doesn't seem strike any correlation to liking me. I can't possibly imagine myself getting up and leaving in the middle of doing something with someone I have a crush on. Being rather shy, getting to such a position in the first place is what I wanted. I could probably reconcile her being willing to leave and myself not with my anhedonia and her impulsiveness, but I am not so certain. I've caught her looking in my eyes and then suddenly looking away or balancing it avoidantly, if you understand what I mean.

[idealistichick]

yeah, I agree with onetree. She probably acts like that because she likes you.

I know that I act flirty with guys that I feel are somewhat beneath me - I have no fear. I can do what I want. I can be a tease if I want. But I act very shy around guys I actually like. I can't just say whatever. And whenever I look at them, I look in their eyes (I can't help it), but I am afraid of them actually noticing because it would put me in a very vulnerable position. That's why I try to balance out the "deep looks" with avoidance. I act somewhat annoyed when the person is nearby. My voice gets forcefully confident and somewhat dry, I act a bit stuck-up, I leave the room quicker than I otherwise would have. That happens with both long-time crushes and with people I just consider very attractive. I have even noticed that I tend to get the strict and stuck-up body language when I pass an attractive person on the street.

You have to take initiative. If you misread the signals, then the worst thing that could happen is that she'll start acting slightly flirty near you, because she likes the admiration. Good luck.

I can give a few examples which irritate me. Mixed signals are irritating. Then again, I have a hard time imagining something from a feeler's perspective.

Her and a group of my friends would play cards, but instead of staying, she'd often just get up and leave halfway through, which doesn't seem strike any correlation to liking me. I can't possibly imagine myself getting up and leaving in the middle of doing something with someone I have a crush on. Being rather shy, getting to such a position in the first place is what I wanted. I could probably reconcile her being willing to leave and myself not with my anhedonia and her impulsiveness, but I am not so certain. I've caught her looking in my eyes and then suddenly looking away or balancing it avoidantly, if you understand what I mean.

I have a bad habit of leaving in the middle of a discussion when me and my friends are all together....by doing that she is trying to get your attention. When she looks away really fast she's embarrassed because she is probably very self-concious (Si polR)...just remember to take initiative!

[ScarlettLux]

yeah, I agree with onetree. She probably acts like that because she likes you.

I know that I act flirty with guys that I feel are somewhat beneath me - I have no fear. I can do what I want. I can be a tease if I want. But I act very shy around guys I actually like. I can't just say whatever. And whenever I look at them, I look in their eyes (I can't help it), but I am afraid of them actually noticing because it would put me in a very vulnerable position. That's why I try to balance out the "deep looks" with avoidance. I act somewhat annoyed when the person is nearby. My voice gets forcefully confident and somewhat dry, I act a bit stuck-up, I leave the room quicker than I otherwise would have. That happens with both long-time crushes and with people I just consider very attractive. I have even noticed that I tend to get the strict and stuck-up body language when I pass an attractive person on the street.

You have to take initiative. If you misread the signals, then the worst thing that could happen is that she'll start acting slightly flirty near you, because she likes the admiration. Good luck.

Wow.. this resounds so much with me! After reading this post, I really do wonder if I am an ENFj intuitive subtype just like you. I am definitely much more sociable than the average INFp, but perhaps thats just because I really have a strong Fe lean. But how strong is too strong to even be considered an INFp anymore? When is it crossing the borders over to ENFj-dom? You also seem to write like me .. I can see myself writing that very post! I too act flirty to guys that I feel are "beneath me" .. ugh, I really hate saying that because it sounds so conceited but truth is truth. For guys that I'm actually genuinely attracted to, I do the same thing as you - I suddenly freeze up (usually, but sometimes I am more open in one-on-one situations) especially if we're in group settings.. and I barely, if ever, look directly in their eyes. I'm too scared of "showing" that I like them through my eyes, and I feel like I would blush. I hateeee that. I sometimes believe that if I acted like I acted "normally" (flirtyish) with people that I'm truly attracted to, things would go so much easier for me. I send the wrong signals all the time

Really though... even what onetreehillluver said I do as well. It really makes sense how it's related to an Si-PoLR ... I've always thought my Si was EXTREMELY bad too. I trip over things constantly and am never aware of how I mesh with my physical surroundings. I hate cooking with a passion or doing any kind of "care-giving" activity for other people that Si types would enjoy. I do the looking away thing too.

Interesting, time to reconsider myself.

[mr_maguoo]

I had an ENFJ girl who I believe had a crush on me, or still does. The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

She still acts somewhat shy around me when she first makes eye contact with me.

Do you think she likes me, and what kind of bait should I put on my hook if she does? O.o

I've had this experience with an ENFJ girl, wasn't too sure about what she was thinking but reading some of these posts it sounds promising. Yet it really isn't because she's too young for me...

[UDP]

Ah... this may explain something:

First - would you ENFjs say that you generally expect other people to approach you, when it comes to establishing or maintaining a relationship? As in, because you are N and not S, you would expect someone to be more assertive in their stance towards you? Not only in a personal, one on one sort of relationship, but also in terms of general relationships, I wonder. Would you relate this to having an polr?


An older ENFj relative for the longest time thought I did not like her because in my youth I was extremely reclusive and tacit. I think this was troubling for her as she wanted to be Si / caregiver-ish, but felt extremely inadequate about it. Now that I am older and understand people more, and also, the requirements of maintaining a relationship, she seems to be much more appreciative of my efforts to consort with that side of our family. She always took my tacitness and reservedness, apparently, as a POLR hit, because she felt inadequate about providing it to make me feel comfortable enough to open up. (What she did/does not understand about that time period was that I was that way with everyone, not just her.)

So the point of this is,

You have to take initiative.

it seems ENFjs prefer you to take the initiative in developing their relationship somewhat, right?
Understanding that will be useful for interacting with other ENFjs I know I will come across in the future.

[Expat]

I am definitely much more sociable than the average INFp, but perhaps thats just because I really have a strong Fe lean. But how strong is too strong to even be considered an INFp anymore? When is it crossing the borders over to ENFj-dom?

You are ENFj rather than INFp if your relationships with ISTps are clearly worse the with ESTjs.

And when you feel most "yourself" when you are active rather than being passive (in general, not in relationships necessarily).

However, especially as Beta NF, if, in a social setting with others, you always tend to feel that it's up to you to establishy contact with someone else (even if you don't do it), then you are more likely ENFj than INFp.

If you're ok with just assuming that others will start talking to you, and you don't feel "bad" for not taking the initiative, then you are more likely INFp than ENFj.

[uninspired]

Here's a big one:
Do you find yourself telling others what to do most of the time
OR
Do you find yourself BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO most of the time

If you're the first one, you're likely ENFj, whereas if you're the second one, you're most likely INFp. As an ethical-subtype INFp, I'm very relational and effusive, particularly with my close friends. I also feel that it's my responsibility to take the initiative with others, but it's not always easy for me to do this because I fear rejection.
I'm only truly outgoing in situations that call for positive displays of affection; I'm not pushy, and I don't like telling others what to do because I respect their autonomy and right to make their own decisions. I believe that, in most cases, my telling someone that they should do something won't have much of an effect on them, because it's that person who needs to make the decision for him or herself. I usually shy away from leadership roles because I so deeply dislike telling others what to do. As a consequence of this, as well as my outward shyness and docility, I'm usually the one who ends up getting pushed around.
Also, try to find out whether your POLR is or . I know for a fact that is my POLR, because even though I'm not the healthiest person there is, I make sure that I take care of myself and am very interested in nutrition, relaxation techniques, nature, sleeping, and self-pampering. In fact, sometimes I feel more dominant because I feel best when doing those types of activities. In fact, I'll put off a activity if my tells me that I don't have the physical stamina to get it done. It's these kinds of activities - filling out paperwork (esp. tax forms and other administrative tasks), keeping up with deadlines, writing extensive papers, and memorizing details - that are most distressing for me, but I'm trying to get better at them.
As for actual relations, I don't mind ISTps at all - I think they're incredibly interesting people, and I wish I could be more like them. We just don't have a whole lot to talk about and I don't know how to relate to them very well. Usually things are fun when we're hanging around an ESFp or ENFp - then we both perk up.
ESTjs, though I admire their work ethic and strength, aren't the kinds of people I like to spend time with. I find them cold, intimidating, and anal, and they have a tendency to control others, which I can't stand. I don't dislike all ESTjs, though; I've liked many a great deal and have enjoyed spending time with them, but when we get close, problems arise.

[JohnSmith]

[Darkstar]

allright let's try to make something productive here...


now what do you want to accomplish with this girl?

You talk of using baits and hooks like you are going to set up a trap and give her no option but to fall into your sleasy advantage-taking arms. If that is the case I hope no one helps you and that you will forever live alone.

If, on the other hand, you are just a somewhat insecure figure making yourself misunderstood, that is OK. It has happened too me, it can happen too anyone.
I thought that while reading your posts you seemed rather evasive with your goals while explaining your situation to us. I'm assuming that you aren't really sure yourself what you want.
You need to figure this out. Do you want a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship? The whole package of sex, dating, riding horses in to the sunset together or what ever perverted thing you want.There is really no normal relationship, all have their special uniqueness. The important thing is that you make your intentions clear and take action towards that. You have to move forward in the relationship or it will stall and it will be really awkward. I know this, it has happened and is still happening. It is a death trap but you need to keep soldiering on towards your goals.
(idle=false)=true;
=)

If you never want to smile, wave and etc, then don't. Because I don't think you should. However what I do think you should do is things you want to do. This might sound to obvious to be mentioned but we often don't do the things we want to.
This has happened to me several times, e.g. when I'm walking by a girl I would like to know better. In my mind there will be two sides fighting, one urges me to talk to her, ask how she is. Smile. Make conversation. The other "voice" is telling me how wrong talking to her would be, I smell bad, I have a bogger in my nose. It's saying how I don't need her, that I've survived before her and I will survive without her. Or perhaps that I will talk with her later after I've made a five-pages long strategic plan. It often ends up with just looks and gets almost hysterically awkward after a while.

I have quite recently commenced a no-tolerance attitude towards the second voice. Works wonders as long as I remember it
:(

So.. this post basically says: Figure out what you want with this girl, what kind of relationship. Then you move forward towards it and if she under the trip don't like what you are trying to accomplish Don't try to hook her with using some bait that isn't yours, there are more fishes in the ocean that likes just your bait.

[JohnSmith]

allright let's try to make something productive here...


now what do you want to accomplish with this girl?

You talk of using baits and hooks like you are going to set up a trap and give her no option but to fall into your sleasy advantage-taking arms. If that is the case I hope no one helps you and that you will forever live alone.

If, on the other hand, you are just a somewhat insecure figure making yourself misunderstood, that is OK. It has happened too me, it can happen too anyone.
I thought that while reading your posts you seemed rather evasive with your goals while explaining your situation to us. I'm assuming that you aren't really sure yourself what you want.
You need to figure this out. Do you want a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship? The whole package of sex, dating, riding horses in to the sunset together or what ever perverted thing you want.There is really no normal relationship, all have their special uniqueness. The important thing is that you make your intentions clear and take action towards that. You have to move forward in the relationship or it will stall and it will be really awkward. I know this, it has happened and is still happening. It is a death trap but you need to keep soldiering on towards your goals.
(idle=false)=true;
=)

If you never want to smile, wave and etc, then don't. Because I don't think you should. However what I do think you should do is things you want to do. This might sound to obvious to be mentioned but we often don't do the things we want to.
This has happened to me several times, e.g. when I'm walking by a girl I would like to know better. In my mind there will be two sides fighting, one urges me to talk to her, ask how she is. Smile. Make conversation. The other "voice" is telling me how wrong talking to her would be, I smell bad, I have a bogger in my nose. It's saying how I don't need her, that I've survived before her and I will survive without her. Or perhaps that I will talk with her later after I've made a five-pages long strategic plan. It often ends up with just looks and gets almost hysterically awkward after a while.

I have quite recently commenced a no-tolerance attitude towards the second voice. Works wonders as long as I remember it


So.. this post basically says: Figure out what you want with this girl, what kind of relationship. Then you move forward towards it and if she under the trip don't like what you are trying to accomplish Don't try to hook her with using some bait that isn't yours, there are more fishes in the ocean that likes just your bait.

Just friends and then we'll see how it goes from there. I will be going to college in the near future, so I doubt it'll be anything permanent. However, this is not something unknown to her. I was always a rather shy person, yes... I have severe intimacy aversion - I can recall incidents where I have thrown up in my mouth (a little... panic attack) because I was near someone I felt "close" to...

[Darkstar]

I have severe intimacy aversion - I can recall incidents where I have thrown up in my mouth (a little... panic attack) because I was near someone I felt "close" to...

hahahaha


btw, I am kind of disappointed about your feedback and ambition with this. You were so not worth my post :-)

[JohnSmith]

I have severe intimacy aversion - I can recall incidents where I have thrown up in my mouth (a little... panic attack) because I was near someone I felt "close" to...

hahahaha


btw, I am kind of disappointed about your feedback and ambition with this. You were so not worth my post :-)

Well, if they realize it or not is regardless - almost everyone on this forum is looking for interest or a discharge of empathy.

If you wanted some intellectual discussion via PM to provide some type of mutual benefit, go ahead and send one.

Nonetheless, it is something I cannot control. Who would wish this upon themselves, anyways? ;-)

I motioned for her to sit down next to me and she did, only to leave 30 seconds later.

[Darkstar]

You are probably somewhat right on your first point. Everyone wants something. Me I just want to spin off ideas and get a second opinion of things. And occasionally learn a thing or two about other people.

and the intellectual discussions is taken via PM?? so that is where they are taking place, foolish me thought they would be here in the open =)

What happened during those 30 seconds? if it were 30 seconds of quiet I can understand it but if you were in the middle of a sentence that is a whole other story.

[Gilly]

I am definitely much more sociable than the average INFp, but perhaps thats just because I really have a strong Fe lean. But how strong is too strong to even be considered an INFp anymore? When is it crossing the borders over to ENFj-dom?

You are ENFj rather than INFp if your relationships with ISTps are clearly worse the with ESTjs.

Not true. I get along better with ESIs than SEEs a LOT of the time. There's no competition.

[JohnSmith]

You are probably somewhat right on your first point. Everyone wants something. Me I just want to spin off ideas and get a second opinion of things. And occasionally learn a thing or two about other people.

and the intellectual discussions is taken via PM?? so that is where they are taking place, foolish me thought they would be here in the open =)

What happened during those 30 seconds? if it were 30 seconds of quiet I can understand it but if you were in the middle of a sentence that is a whole other story.

She made types of hand gestures used while dancing.

[Darkstar]

Here's a big one:
Do you find yourself telling others what to do most of the time
OR
Do you find yourself BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO most of the time

I think you should use the word 'prefer' instead of find.

[lefty]

I had an ENFJ girl who I believe had a crush on me, or still does. The problem is I'm one unfriendly INTJ and rarely smiled back or waved at her.

She still acts somewhat shy around me when she first makes eye contact with me.

Do you think she likes me, and what kind of bait should I put on my hook if she does? O.o

i think istjs are attractive but also intimidating. i think enfj intj relationships might be more of a sexual nature. you know there's always supposedly the e not recognizing how smart the i is initially, too. but when the enfj discovers what an intj is all about its mind blowing. i think it can lead the enfj to a sexual state of awe. Like a desire to merge combinded with fear. f its a highly functioning enfj you might be onto somethng. maybe she can relate to you intellectually, at least on some level.

[lefty]

yeah, I agree with onetree. She probably acts like that because she likes you.

I know that I act flirty with guys that I feel are somewhat beneath me - I have no fear. I can do what I want. I can be a tease if I want. But I act very shy around guys I actually like. I can't just say whatever. And whenever I look at them, I look in their eyes (I can't help it), but I am afraid of them actually noticing because it would put me in a very vulnerable position. That's why I try to balance out the "deep looks" with avoidance..

you know what i think is its akward for the semi duals to both be extroverted sensing that's why its a semi dual pairing not all the parts fit perfectly. its a great sexual relationship, though. but again, i think an imbalance would become apparent there, too, if you give it some time.

[lefty]

I am definitely much more sociable than the average INFp, but perhaps thats just because I really have a strong Fe lean. But how strong is too strong to even be considered an INFp anymore? When is it crossing the borders over to ENFj-dom?

You are ENFj rather than INFp if your relationships with ISTps are clearly worse the with ESTjs.
.

i hate estjs , too.

enfj, 4w5

[lefty]

train wreck.


youd be better off persuing a dual unless youre in the mood for a sexual relationship.

[lefty]

Just friends and then we'll see how it goes from there. I will be going to college in the near future, so I doubt it'll be anything permanent. However, this is not something unknown to her. I was always a rather shy person, yes... I have severe intimacy aversion - I can recall incidents where I have thrown up in my mouth (a little... panic attack) because I was near someone I felt "close" to...[/quote]


very funny @ vomit. im sure that warm fuzzy post make you gun shy lol. anyway yeah ive read before that intjs usually are only physically close with very few people.

lefty
enfj 4 w 5

[lefty]

What happened during those 30 seconds? if it were 30 seconds of quiet I can understand it but if you were in the middle of a sentence that is a whole other story.[/quote]

i am telling you it is the mutual es.

[IcEPiCk]

lol lefty you will probably drop out and blame the world. Good luck though.

[lefty]

lol lefty you will probably drop out and blame the world. Good luck though.

and you'll probably waste your life trying to make other people feel bad about themselves. couldn't stand an even playing field could you.

[IcEPiCk]

just you bud

[lefty]

just you bud

go fuck yourself straight back to your pansy assed delta bullshit land.

[discourse]

ScatterLux, from reading your post, I'd say you're rather ENFj than INFp. You sound more structured and that feels more like rational, than irrational. But that's just an hunch.

[ScarlettLux]

ScatterLux, from reading your post, I'd say you're rather ENFj than INFp. You sound more structured and that feels more like rational, than irrational. But that's just an hunch.

Hehe, "scatter"lux =] Well, despite all my mulling over ENFj-dom.. I still hold true to being INFp.

[Darkstar]

She looks IEI though.. ambiguous.. but you cant manipulate your looks but you can with words so in my book she's IEI

edit; sorry for offtopic, but my other on-topic posts hopefully weighs over.

[JohnSmith]

I'm rather confused now. I've given her plenty of times to converse to me, plenty of times to flirt with me, etc. You name it.

Nonetheless, she hasn't taken any of my offers.

On the other hand, she still loses her center of balance around me, finds herself monitoring her reactions when I am around, is completely surprised when I show up, and acts shy around me.

I am beginning to wonder if she is angry at me - she used to wave at me and try to initiate flirting with me a lot, and being a socially retarded INTJ, I didn't pay much attention.

What causes an ENFJ to lose attraction, anyways?