I've recently realized

[Joy]

In attending 3 various meetings recently has made me realize/understand more about socionics than I have in the past six months, possibly longer. (I totally misunderstood functions until about a year ago. Once I realized that I was wrong about a hell of a lot of it I began learning more about functions/information elements, but I have learned relatively little in the past 6 months since then.) Anyways,

Here are some of the things I've recently come to understand about socionics:

- A Te PoLR can be manifested in totally fucking up terminology. Repeatedly.
- The role function really isn't so bad. It's something that you're aware of but don't value. You can see how others value it and can use it like a tool in your interactions with them, but it's for their sake alone. I used to understand this better than I have more recently. (I used to refer to it as a tool, and as "the language of the natives". It's a language that used all around me, and I can understand and speak it well enough to get by, but it's not my first language.)
- Also, the role function is used in combination with one's first two functions. It's like... you see the world through your dominant function, but you can see another aspect of situation as it applies to others through your role function, and when you use your role it's because of motivations provided by your second function. Of course, I'm still sort of sorting through this particular theory.
- One's PoLR can be dealt with effectively by doing the things you need to do for reasons other than your PoLR itself.
- Identicals kick ass, particularly the ones who you see as successful/well/etc. It inspires confidence.
- I think... INFps and INTps are both rather timid types, but both can upset people with their manner. INFps can upset some people by distorting the facts to get an emotional response out of others, and Te can upset people by pointing out the cold, hard facts and ignoring the possible emotional response out of others. Overall though, they still come off as being more passive and timid in their demeanor, and you won't see their "tough" side unless you get them going on something they feel strongly about.
- It is very unlikely that Kelly is INFp. The only reason I have to believe she might be is because she goes along with pretty much anything Peter tells her.
- This place is full of miserable people. We learn this theory about the reasons why people behave differently, but instead of using it to get along with each other better, we use it as an excuse for intolerance. Booooooooooo.
- The less time I spend here, the more well I am.
- I've been too harsh on Fe. This is due to two Fe dominants in my life, an ESFj and an ENFj. I've carried a lot of resentment on the subject due to my relationships and interactions with these people. Overall I've viewed Fe as the super aristocratic Fe or the "omg I can't deal with my feelings so you're going to have to unfairly put up with an inane amount of tedious bullshit" Fe. Boooooo. Anyways, yeah... when I have irrational prejudices or reactions to things it's pretty much always because I haven't recognized my emotions about an issue that I have connected to that thing somewhere along the way. I really ought to work on that....


Hmmm I thought there was other stuff, but nothing else comes to mind at the moment. I'll post again if I remember more.

[Gilly]

- The less time I spend here, the more well I am.

Whether or not you've experienced it before, you've known this for a long time. It takes a level of objectivity inaccessible to most to think about Socionics a lot and live/socialize/function normally.

[Gilly]

lol, I know plenty of IEIs who aren't timid at ALL...

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

Yeah, if you've been using it as an excuse to not get along with people, you've got a LOOOONG hard road to recovery, Joy You need to stop projecting.

[Gilly]

I'd just like to add that while I think about Socionics near constantly, I still manage to function as a normal human being (even more normal than I used to, for that matter, though there are many other factors of course).

Yeah, but it took us a while to get this way, no? I don't think I could have thought about Socionics constantly and functioned normally right at the beginning. No way. It takes a while to perfect the system and make it "natural" enough to make it a part of everyday life.

[Joy]

- The less time I spend here, the more well I am.

Whether or not you've experienced it before, you've known this for a long time. It takes a level of objectivity inaccessible to most to think about Socionics a lot and live/socialize/function normally.

it's not that... this place and this theory are just a way to not have a regular social life, something I haven't have in about... hmmm.... two and a half years now

[Gilly]

There you go, projecting again...

[Joy]

lol, I know plenty of IEIs who aren't timid at ALL...

It's not that they aren't timid, it's more like... they have a timid way about them? I don't think that a lot of people would call some these people I know timid, but that's just an impression I get from them. It's hard to explain. I think an identical I know also sees an INFp we both know as timid.

[Khamelion]

- The role function really isn't so bad. It's something that you're aware of but don't value. You can see how others value it and can use it like a tool in your interactions with them, but it's for their sake alone. I used to understand this better than I have more recently. (I used to refer to it as a tool, and as "the language of the natives". It's a language that used all around me, and I can understand and speak it well enough to get by, but it's not my first language.)

I don't know what my role function is. But, I feel as though I switch my "role function" constantly according to who needs what and who I'm around. Creates a chameleon effect. An animal I very much like btw Actually...who do I write to now-a-days to change my username? (I've used it else where and I hate Clover lol)

- It is very unlikely that Kelly is INFp. The only reason I have to believe she might be is because she goes along with pretty much anything Peter tells her.

I actually laughed at that last part, seemed hilarious for some reason. I don't really know how to go about refuting this, but maybe this is a start. What exactly does "goes along" mean here? If it is to be taken literally, I suppose it has some truth in it. I'd say I've gone from following him and agreeing with everything without much questioning, to taking a step back and concidering the things he tells me and his opinions from anothers perspective other than my own.

Actually...I remember quite a few discussions every now and then, when I'm just sitting around, and I think, "Fuck...I think he was wrong about this, I wish I could continue that discussion now even though it was over X years/months ago. I mean what about this/that and what if this?"

In other words, I've learned to challenge him. And in response he just thinks up a more convincing arugment, and it seems that most often I ask all the questions I can and he convinces me anyway. Now see sometimes he is trying to convince me, and I always take it all in, but if it doesn't feel right I just acknowledge his opinion and keep my own. I just don't say, "You are wrong, I'm right, your opinion is just that, an opinion and mine dominates over yours. " Or any variation of aggitating the situation. I'm fine with disagreeing with him....its unsettling, just like anyone who won't agree with you could make you feel, but it's all good in the end.

There is probably a reason why we got along for so long other than the general concensus that he was playing with me, and that may be that our sense of ethics is on a similar wave-length. Maybe some other things. Hopefully...lol.

OR MAYBE, he is just right a lot of the time? DUN DUN DUNNNNNN

we use it as an excuse for intolerance.

I've noticed this as well, actually I'm sure I've said it somewhere...probably to Patrick or something...



Anyhow Joy, I like this post. New insights into people is great, gives me a boost whenever I pick up on new things in large groups of people. Real life!

[Joy]

- This place is full of miserable people. We learn this theory about the reasons why people behave differently, but instead of using it to get along with each other better, we use it as an excuse for intolerance. Booooooooooo.

Hm, really, you think it's used as an excuse to not get along?

I was feeling miserable earlier today, but I'm not now. Speaking to a friend brought me out of that. Talked to me, and listened to me, and also reminded me that what is coming up to deal with next week is only temporary. So, at least one of us isn't miserable.

*hugs*

[Gilly]

There are several people here who I find considerably more interesting than most people in my offline life. I think in this day and age it is actually not a "sad" thing to have an online social life.

Agreed, but no way should it entirely replace a normal one...

[tcaudilllg]

Yeah, if you've been using it as an excuse to not get along with people, you've got a LOOOONG hard road to recovery, Joy You need to stop projecting.

This is what I keep trying to tell people. If you don't get along with someone it's usually not related to type, but rather to the issue of your 7th functions relying on opposing strategies. If you don't like somebody, get another opinion about them from a person neutral to either PoV.

[Joy]

- The less time I spend here, the more well I am.

Whether or not you've experienced it before, you've known this for a long time. It takes a level of objectivity inaccessible to most to think about Socionics a lot and live/socialize/function normally.

it's not that... this place and this theory are just a way to not have a regular social life, something I haven't have in about... hmmm.... two and a half years now

There are several people here who I find considerably more interesting than most people in my offline life. I think in this day and age it is actually not a "sad" thing to have an online social life.

No, not at all. But it can't be your social life in its entirety.

[Joy]

- The role function really isn't so bad. It's something that you're aware of but don't value. You can see how others value it and can use it like a tool in your interactions with them, but it's for their sake alone. I used to understand this better than I have more recently. (I used to refer to it as a tool, and as "the language of the natives". It's a language that used all around me, and I can understand and speak it well enough to get by, but it's not my first language.)

I don't know what my role function is. But, I feel as though I switch my "role function" constantly according to who needs what and who I'm around. Creates a chameleon effect. An animal I very much like btw Actually...who do I write to now-a-days to change my username? (I've used it else where and I hate Clover lol)

- It is very unlikely that Kelly is INFp. The only reason I have to believe she might be is because she goes along with pretty much anything Peter tells her.

I actually laughed at that last part, seemed hilarious for some reason. I don't really know how to go about refuting this, but maybe this is a start. What exactly does "goes along" mean here? If it is to be taken literally, I suppose it has some truth in it. I'd say I've gone from following him and agreeing with everything without much questioning, to taking a step back and concidering the things he tells me and his opinions from anothers perspective other than my own.

Actually...I remember quite a few discussions every now and then, when I'm just sitting around, and I think, "Fuck...I think he was wrong about this, I wish I could continue that discussion now even though it was over X years/months ago. I mean what about this/that and what if this?"

In other words, I've learned to challenge him. And in response he just thinks up a more convincing arugment, and it seems that most often I ask all the questions I can and he convinces me anyway. Now see sometimes he is trying to convince me, and I always take it all in, but if it doesn't feel right I just acknowledge his opinion and keep my own. I just don't say, "You are wrong, I'm right, your opinion is just that, an opinion and mine dominates over yours. " Or any variation of aggitating the situation. I'm fine with disagreeing with him....its unsettling, just like anyone who won't agree with you could make you feel, but it's all good in the end.

There is probably a reason why we got along for so long other than the general concensus that he was playing with me, and that may be that our sense of ethics is on a similar wave-length. Maybe some other things. Hopefully...lol.

OR MAYBE, he is just right a lot of the time? DUN DUN DUNNNNNN

we use it as an excuse for intolerance.

I've noticed this as well, actually I'm sure I've said it somewhere...probably to Patrick or something...



Anyhow Joy, I like this post. New insights into people is great, gives me a boost whenever I pick up on new things in large groups of people. Real life!

good

[tcaudilllg]

There is probably a reason why we got along for so long other than the general concensus that he was playing with me, and that may be that our sense of ethics is on a similar wave-length. Maybe some other things. Hopefully...lol.

When I called you a static kinetist, this is what I meant.

From what I can deduce there are two sides to static kineticism: those who impose order, and those who live by it. I would imagine discojoe to be latter, and Clover to be the former.

[Khamelion]

I believe the issue is balance. Surround yourself with people in real life, and keep part of your mind on the socionics theory. Get to deep into the social, you may get confused about people and crave more insight. Get too deep into socionics, you forget what real people are.



This forum makes me feel better at times, and hardly ever aggitates me anymore. If I see something annoying I just change threads

And I also find that there are some more interesting people on here than a lot of people that I meet IRL. I think this may be due to the lack of social anxiety that one-on-one contact forces you into when meeting someone.

[Joy]

Yeah, if you've been using it as an excuse to not get along with people, you've got a LOOOONG hard road to recovery, Joy You need to stop projecting.

It's not me in particular, I see it going on all over the place here. Do you think people irl bitch at each other so much? There's way more criticism and drama here than there are in most places. Granted, certain places, like fast food restaurants, are full of shit like that, but people treat each other with more respect and tolerance overall in most situations.

[Joy]

lol families are different

[Joy]

I thought about that... that we're just too comfortable with each other. I know that when new people show up and act half as much like an asshole as the regular posters, people generally say something to them.

[tcaudilllg]

I thought about that... that we're just too comfortable with each other. I know that when new people show up and act half as much like an asshole as the regular posters, people generally say something to them.

Well it's one thing for a person who knows nothing about the socion to try to defend themselves against what they see as the unknowable, unfathomable forces that define theirs and others personalities, and another for a person who undertstands these forces to just "go on a trip" seeing what will happen. I think pseudo typologies (non-Jungian) are largely responsible for the misbelief that personality are "ever changing, ever evolving die, that cannot be understood.

For example, Big 5 rates people on a neuroticism scale, and yet here we know from Model-A that neuroticism is an effect of having a poor dual presence in one's life. Give the person a dual, and the neuroticism diminishes.