Which types tend to be more religious?

[ElliseLinette]

Okay I have a very limited knowledge on socionics... frankly it confuses me greatly. But in attempting to understand it better I started wondering if type really has anything to do with religious preference. From what I've gathered, I would say that S types are more apt to be religious because of their following of tradition... however I think that N types would get more out of religion because of their ability to feel things that aren't necessarily physical. So N types would believe in religion because they truely "feel the light", as it were, and S types would believe in religion more because they always have to begin with. I have two friends, one is an N and one is an S. My N friend is an athiest and very open to all forms of thinking and my S friend is very close minded and would never dream of questioning his faith, even though he has plenty of reason to.

Do my assumptions hold any water at all or am I completely off? This isn't meant to be offensive either, I'm just curious.

[Kirana]

Okay I have a very limited knowledge on socionics... frankly it confuses me greatly. But in attempting to understand it better I started wondering if type really has anything to do with religious preference. From what I've gathered, I would say that S types are more apt to be religious because of their following of tradition... however I think that N types would get more out of religion because of their ability to feel things that aren't necessarily physical. So N types would believe in religion because they truely "feel the light", as it were, and S types would believe in religion more because they always have to begin with. I have two friends, one is an N and one is an S. My N friend is an athiest and very open to all forms of thinking and my S friend is very close minded and would never dream of questioning his faith, even though he has plenty of reason to.

Do my assumptions hold any water at all or am I completely off? This isn't meant to be offensive either, I'm just curious.

don't think so. i think xNTx is thought to be more likely to be atheist, because of a need to question things. so if such a person is religious, it's probably a conscious choice. i think that some S types would be predisposed towards whatever religion (or no religion) that they grow up with. i have friends from east and west who are sensing types and the western ones would tend to be atheist and the eastern ones tend to be religious, but generally neither group thinks very much about why they personally ascribe to that position. that is not to say, of course, that *all* sensing types are blind followers. many people, of every type have changed their mind on this question, and many do so not for (what appears to me, anyway) irrelevant single events, but because they were persuaded towards a more convincing option.

i think different types are persuaded by different things. the litmus test of a 'true' religion would differ depending on what sort of person you are. some place importance on what a religion is able to teach, some on unbroken continuity, some on the persuasiveness of the underlying theology, some on the practical ability of the religion to improve mankind, and so on.

among intuitive types, my expectation would be that the types with strong Ne would be more open to religion/mysticism/spirituality, although whether they would ascribe to any one religion or embrace a kind of pantheism is an open question. i'm not sure if quadra has any influence.

perhaps it would be helpful to define what is encompassed by 'religion' in your question. i am assuming 'structured belief' in general, which includes all belief systems that attempt to explain existence in a holistic way.

i personally find this an interesting question, from observing acquaintances and forums from the east and west. observing the west is very useful because westerners are much more strongly individualised, and more likely to claim some position or opinion for themselves, and so the personality/belief link (or lack of it) is clearer. minority types among eastern populations are less visible which blurs things a bit. but relying solely on observing westerners i think risks a bias, because in the west it is not in vogue to be spiritual or religious. it seems to me that spirituality and religion is viewed in the west as a sign of stupidity and since nobody wants to appear stupid, types that care how they appear to others (or to themselves) will have a bias towards atheism. the east will tend to have an opposite bias although there are regions and countries that are close to a neutral bias, i.e. valuing or not valuing spirituality has negligible social impact.

[machintruc]

i think xNTx is thought to be more likely to be atheist,

I'm LII, and I'm Catholic. Religion is not type-related.

Again, there are aspects of Atheism, and types tend to say different things about it :

F-types tend to say : "God doesn't exist, because there is Evil in the Earth (because He's unethical)."
T-types tend to say : "God doesn't exist, because Science contradicts God (because He's unlogical)."

PRAISE CHRIST - being Catholic is so cooooooooooooooooool

Nothing is more logical than the existence of God.

[KSpin]

Only the stupid types believe in the existance of something that cannot be proven to exist.

[machintruc]

Only the stupid types believe in the existance of something that cannot be proven to exist.

Existence of God can actually be proved.

1. Universe exists.
2. Universe couldn't create itself, otherwise it would already exist before existing, which is unlogical.
3. Universe was created by something else.
4. There is necessarily a first cause, which a first creator, a first generator, call it how you want.
5. This thing can't have a beginning or an end, otherwise it would be created by something else and it wouldn't be the first cause.
6. This first cause is God.
7. God exists.

[KSpin]

Wrong. Your first mistake is in No. 2. And just continues through there.

[machintruc]

Wrong. Your first mistake is in No. 2. And just continues through there.

21. Planck stipulated that time and space were SEEDS.
22. So, Universe HAS a first time seed. This is the seed number ONE.
23. Is there a seed number ZERO ? no.
24. Universe didn't exist at seed number ZERO. Could it create himself ?

[Gilly]

Do you have any idea how many people MUCH more intelligent with MUCH more background in this kind of thing than you have failed to come to a valid conclusion on the matter? The "necessary being" argument has been debunked, reformed, and redebunked countless times. You're not going to do it.

[KSpin]

Planck sounds like one. We have absolutely no way of knowing exactly how/when the Universe was created, or if it was. We can only make stipulations to say what would have happened -if- it was created in a certain way, and see if it lines up with what we currently have (we have a very limit view).

Before the Universe existed (if this is possible) there was no time (apparently). And if everything has a creator, who created God? If God is exempt from this law, then why can't other things be too?

[Drommel]

Whatever type that cannot live without a hard answer to a question. Science will probably never fully explain how we got here or what happens after death, but religion offers up an easy to live with, end-all, be-all, unquestionable answer.

Note: All religion is bullshit.

[KSpin]

I've suffered from Thanatophobia, and still do occasionally. Usually at night when trying to sleep. This still doesn't make me desperate enough to consider religion to be truth.

[Gilly]

Religion is not bullshit. It's necessary for some people to live a healthy lifestyle.

[machintruc]

Religion is not bullshit. It's necessary for some people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Religion is not only proposing what you call an "healthy lifestyle". There are non-religious communities which do, like Straight Edge and Hippies. There are also philosophical schools which do.

Religion is actually more than that. Religion is paying back your debts to God.

[Slacker]

I'm not religious. My brother and sister have both become "born-again Christians" despite being raised in the same heathen home as I was, with the same heathen parents. SO I would say ISFj and INFj for no other reason than them. LOL

But I bet people of any type could become religious, maybe for different reasons though.

[Drommel]

Religion is not bullshit. It's necessary for some people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Just because some people need that crutch doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.

[KSpin]

Religion is not bullshit. It's necessary for some people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Religion is not only proposing what you call an "healthy lifestyle". There are non-religious communities which do, like Straight Edge and Hippies. There are also philosophical schools which do.

Religion is actually more than that. Religion is paying back your debts to God.

I've had enough. The bloody Frenchman is doing it again! Your very existance is proof that God doesn't exist, otherwise he'd strike you down and tell you to stop being such annoying, arrogant fools.

[Gilly]

I never said that its purposes or qualities were limited to such, or that such qualities were unique to religion. I meant nothing more than what I said.

[Gilly]

Religion is not bullshit. It's necessary for some people to live a healthy lifestyle.

Religion is not only proposing what you call an "healthy lifestyle". There are non-religious communities which do, like Straight Edge and Hippies. There are also philosophical schools which do.

Religion is actually more than that. Religion is paying back your debts to God.

I've had enough. The bloody Frenchman is doing it again! Your very existance is proof that God doesn't exist, otherwise he'd strike you down and tell you to stop being such annoying, arrogant fools.

'scuse me?

[KSpin]

Sorry that you were included in that quote. It was actually entirely directed at Machintruc.

[Jarno]

Only the stupid types believe in the existance of something that cannot be proven to exist.

Existence of God can actually be proved.

1. Universe exists.
2. Universe couldn't create itself, otherwise it would already exist before existing, which is unlogical.
3. Universe was created by something else.
4. There is necessarily a first cause, which a first creator, a first generator, call it how you want.
5. This thing can't have a beginning or an end, otherwise it would be created by something else and it wouldn't be the first cause.
6. This first cause is God.
7. God exists.

1. True
2. Remember that time didn't exist at the moment of Big Bang; no time means no cause and effect
3. Were you there?
4. Only when time is relevant
5. If God can be created without a cause, why can't the universe be created without a cause?
6. This first cause is the Big Bang
7. Highly unlikely. God is created by fearfull people who want something to guard them in hazardous times. That is likely.

[machintruc]

Only the stupid types believe in the existance of something that cannot be proven to exist.

Existence of God can actually be proved.

1. Universe exists.
2. Universe couldn't create itself, otherwise it would already exist before existing, which is unlogical.
3. Universe was created by something else.
4. There is necessarily a first cause, which a first creator, a first generator, call it how you want.
5. This thing can't have a beginning or an end, otherwise it would be created by something else and it wouldn't be the first cause.
6. This first cause is God.
7. God exists.

1. True
2. Remember that time didn't exist at the moment of Big Bang; no time means no cause and effect
3. Were you there?
4. Only when time is relevant
5. If God can be created without a cause, why can't the universe be created without a cause?
6. This first cause is the Big Bang
7. Highly unlikely. God is created by fearfull people who want something to guard them in hazardous times. That is likely.

1. True
2. So what did generate the Big Bang ?
3. No
4. God is outside time.
5. God is not created, God has no beginning or an end, but He exists. God is outside time, and therefore He's eternal.
6. Again - what did generate the Big Bang ?
7. If you really believe in God, you believe in Him, happy or not.

[Gilly]

Gotcha.

Jarno: the entirety of the human condition is hazardous. That's why religion exists.

[Jarno]

I once read that groups of people in the stone age used God as a judge to make people of their group cooperate better. More "cooperative groups" survived then groups which didn't believe in God.

And therefor there's much religion in the world today.

But ofcourse this is evolutionairy theory, probably has few weight for religious people or creationists.

[KSpin]

It's the Meme theory. The theory that ideas further themselves, just as genes do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

[machintruc]

It's the Meme theory. The theory that ideas further themselves, just as genes do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Some memes are healthy and good. A meme is a cognitive information. Cognitive informations is not something evil.

Memetic theory is a theory coined by Dawkins which is actually an extrovert representation of cognitive informations and their interactions. (In contrast of classical cognitive information models, which are introvert).

[KSpin]

Who said anything about them being good or evil? If we're going along these lines... the ideas of 'good' and 'evil' are both memes.

[machintruc]

Who said anything about them being good or evil? If we're going along these lines... the ideas of 'good' and 'evil' are both memes.

The ideas are, but Good and Evil themselves aren't.

Good is Good.

Evil doesn't exist by itself, Evil is only the absence of Good.

[KSpin]

Hmmm... no. You're missing the entire point behind memes. Anything you learn from somebody else can be considered a meme. This includes the notion of "good" and "evil".

[tcaudilllg]

2. Universe couldn't create itself, otherwise it would already exist before existing, which is unlogical. - Xenosaga's antagonist, an ISTp, thought to lead the dead -- who continued to exist as collective unconscious content -- back to the beginning of time by willing the flow of energy in the universe to the pre-Big Bang state, effecting Neitzsche's concept of the eternal recurrence of time. Obviously ISTp can consider action equivalent to time, and time as dependent upon action. It might be reasonable to consider the role of ISTp information elements at the beginning of time.
3. Universe was created by something else. - actually Xenosaga does suggest the universe was created by a higher dimensional existence. However this existence is not interested in anything but what is going on in the world, much like a child.
4. There is necessarily a first cause, which a first creator, a first generator, call it how you want. What is "first"? I have little reason to believe "first" is anything more than a matter of opinion. If our society were to focus less on firsts and more on result then we might be better off.
5. This thing can't have a beginning or an end, otherwise it would be created by something else and it wouldn't be the first cause. A beginning can be an end due to the existence of general relativity.
6. This first cause is God. - Structure is reflexive. You should read relativity.
7. God exists. - Providence does... but it doesn't suit anyone's particular PoV save that which will survive.

Here's one for you: with means that the internal processes of an object can influence its time. Therefore, eternal recurrence in our universe is perfectly reasonable.

[Kirana]

i think xNTx is thought to be more likely to be atheist,

I'm LII, and I'm Catholic. Religion is not type-related.

Again, there are aspects of Atheism, and types tend to say different things about it :

F-types tend to say : "God doesn't exist, because there is Evil in the Earth (because He's unethical)."
T-types tend to say : "God doesn't exist, because Science contradicts God (because He's unlogical)."

PRAISE CHRIST - being Catholic is so cooooooooooooooooool

Nothing is more logical than the existence of God.

*ehem* i said thought to be. i am also not atheist and am also LII. i also said that i don't think religion is type-related, but there may be some predisposition for various aspects of it. thread seems derailed pretty quickly.

[tcaudilllg]

creative types due to the desire to believe in a positive final outcome (), which religion tends to suggest.

[eunice]

I'm a free thinker because I feel that what every major religion postulates is possible. Moreover, been affiliated to a specific religion would mean that I have to view the world solely from its perspective. In this world of uncertainty, anything is possible and I don't want to limit myself to a particular religion. Anyway, I don't think religion is type-related. For instance, my ISTj best friend is an atheist and an ENFp good friend is not concerned about religion and spirituality at all.

[machintruc]

creative types due to the desire to believe in a positive final outcome (), which religion tends to suggest.

Rick said that there are aspects of religion, and types wouldn't have the same religious behaviour. This is true. In my Catholic youth association, you can find all types, with all possible religious behaviour, but the types I found in are mainly :

SEI : peaceful, sociable, outgoing, adaptable, somewhat "lazy".
ILE : passive but initiating, creative, easy-going and friendly.
EIE : very expressive, modest, commercial, persuades others to do right.
EII : empathetic but rigid, absent-minded and impractical.
ILI : passive, but logical and friendly, always being objective.
LSE : friendly and leading, likes efficiency, because it's cool to be efficient.
LIE : can behave somewhat passively, like ILE, but resembles more LSE, likes efficiency.
SLE : impulsive and assertive, likes to provocate.

This association contains more of certain types and traits, but that's not the whole Catholic church. There are 16 aspects of reality, as there are 16 aspects of everything. This includes religion.

[ElliseLinette]

Wow... okay when they said never to argue about politics or religion they weren't kidding!

I am a feeling type and I am an agnostic. Although I never really gave much thought to religion before Basic Training it made me realize a few things. Believing or not believing in god didn't help me get through the hardships I was facing. In fact, it did the opposite and pissed me off. Imagine wanting to get some REAL advice on how to get through it all and the only thing I get is "Have you accepted Christ as your personal savior? He will help you get through this if you only believe in him." I never felt an enlightened feeling or anything like that. I'm not saying that there isn't a god, because really there is no way that you can prove or disprove it. Nobody was around when the universe was created so everything is left to speculation. I have nothing against religious people, but sometimes I can't help but feel like they are a little ignorant. Someone who refuses to even look at the evolution theory and thinks it should be taken out of high school cirriculum is ignorant, to me. Nobody is asking you to believe in it, it's just another theory that needs to be addressed. I have a friend who refuses to look at evolution and also refuses to believe dinosuars exsisted because they were not in the bible... well I heard that Cats were never mentioned in the bible either and yet we have those. To me the bible is just a glorified story. Some of the things in it are just too hard for me to really believe could happen, but I'm sure someone with solid faith has no trouble at all.

Religion is just a cushy, comfort thing to fall back on, in my way of thinking, that explains all the things that can't really be explained. "I'm dying but hey, I'm going to heaven in the end. Everything is going to be okay because this is all part of God's plan and he loves me. You're going to hell because you don't believe in what I believe in, even though you really didn't do anything else wrong in your life. In fact, maybe you were a better person than me, but I went to church and I accepted Christ as my personal savior so I'm going to Heaven." This is purely my opinion and obviously it's based on Christianity, which I find to be sort of like servitude. For a religion that is supposed to be so forgiving... I dunno it's all kinda lost on me. All religion has something useful that it can give to society and there is nothing wrong with being religious, I just don't really understand it. Most religions that I know of are more "My way or the highway". You won't go to heaven if you don't do this and this and this, you'll go to heaven if you go out and die for your country, you won't reach enlightenment if you don't meditate, if you don't want to be reincarnated as a rock then you better do this and this and this, etc. All of it just seems like something to make everyone behave well. Isn't that what we have laws for?

Now this is all VERY opinionated (key word is OPINION), so it really shouldn't be taken that seriously. This is how I feel, I'm an INFj, so obviously lack of faith has nothing to do with whether or not you're a thinking type or a feeling type (unless I've been wrong about my type all along O_o). Since most S types that I know tend to be on the stubborn side, I would say that they would be more apt to believe in religion because that's how it always has been and they don't really like change or to shake things up. But this could all be because of my lack of interaction with S types in general.

[eunice]

@ElliseLinette: I couldn't have said it better.

[ataronchronon]

Religion is a dead issue with me. If someone brings it up to me, I wonder why this person hasn't gotten over it already. Kinda like gravity. There is still a lot more to be known about gravity, but that is beyond the limits of any actual relevence to me. I drop a ball, it accelerates downwards at a rate of 9.80m/s/s and that's it. It also causes the planets to rotate around the sun, and satellites around the earth, which is all very interesting, but in the end it has very little effect on me.

[KSpin]

Will this thread get locked too? But it's up to mcnew what gets done with it in the end.

[machintruc]

Will this thread get locked too? But it's up to mcnew what gets done with it in the end.

The other thread got locked because I reported (i.e. clicked on the red exclamative mark ("!")) my own topic. I think it would have been better to avoid hostility.

[KSpin]

Will this thread get locked too? But it's up to mcnew what gets done with it in the end.

The other thread got locked because I reported (i.e. clicked on the red exclamative mark ("!")) my own topic. I think it would have been better to avoid hostility.

I have nothing against you machintruc, even most of your beliefs would be perfectly OK by me as long as you're willing to accept when you could be wrong, and not try to go against the flow of logic. :wink:

But anyway, enough of that. No hard feelings?

[machintruc]

Will this thread get locked too? But it's up to mcnew what gets done with it in the end.

The other thread got locked because I reported (i.e. clicked on the red exclamative mark ("!")) my own topic. I think it would have been better to avoid hostility.

I have nothing against you machintruc, even most of your beliefs would be perfectly OK by me as long as you're willing to accept when you could be wrong, and not try to go against the flow of logic. :wink:

But anyway, enough of that. No hard feelings?

I didn't believe you had such feelings, neither have I.

I only defended God, as any Catholic would. I reported that topic more for avoiding further hostile communication. That's anticipation. I think I did right. Wouldn't you defend your mother, your brother, your friend if he/she would be offended ?