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Thread: Functional areas and fatigue

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    Default Functional areas and fatigue

    What functional area, when you try to tackle it yourself, makes you the most tired? Do you find that there's any area of your life where as soon as you try to take care of it by yourself, you suddenly feel drained, tired, immobized, and as if you need to take a nap?

    And would this be most likely your PoLR, role, or dual function?

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    Rote memorization of things that are non-logical, that is, that they don't "make sense" and I have to memorize them only through brute force.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Functional areas and fatigue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    What functional area, when you try to tackle it yourself, makes you the most tired? Do you find that there's any area of your life where as soon as you try to take care of it by yourself, you suddenly feel drained, tired, immobized, and as if you need to take a nap?

    And would this be most likely your PoLR, role, or dual function?
    focusing on anything concrete wears me out. (S or T)

    trying to put words to the thoughts/ideas running through my head, trying to define them or explain them to someone else gives me a headache like no other, exhausts me while at the same time makes me very agitated...in all areas of life. (Ti)
    (it's so much easier to just tell a story that gives an example of my idea (Fi/Te combo))

    lately, i've been working on "be here now" (S) and body awareness (Si). Each time I do this, it literally knocks me out (sleep wise), particularly the body awareness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Rote memorization of things that are non-logical, that is, that they don't "make sense" and I have to memorize them only through brute force.
    That's interesting...I always thought Se types were good at that (although some posts on the forum suggest that rote memorization might be a thing; I'm skeptical of that though).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Rote memorization of things that are non-logical, that is, that they don't "make sense" and I have to memorize them only through brute force.
    That's interesting...I always thought Se types were good at that (although some posts on the forum suggest that rote memorization might be a thing; I'm skeptical of that though).
    Let me see...

    I can memorize on the spot roads, facial features, and dresses/appearance.

    However take a book of, say, business, which is full of unrelated concept regarding different business strategies. This is very hard for me to memorize.
    Take a statistics or maths book. Comparatively much easier.
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    I don't know about the most tired.. I think I spend a lot of time on Si stuff and it makes me tired simply because i spend so much time on it. But when I feel most fatigued the fastest is when I'm around an Se person. I don't think I get as tired from trying to do this stuff myself as just failing miserably. I'd definitely say I get the most tired around ESFps.

    I can also get tired memorizing facts which seem to me unconnected as well.

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    Mostly what FDG said.

    And filling out job applications. I could hardly do it for more than 20 minutes at a time, filling out the same things over and over. I assume it's related to Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Mostly what FDG said.

    And filling out job applications. I could hardly do it for more than 20 minutes at a time, filling out the same things over and over. I assume it's related to Si.
    I don't think I know anyone who does enjoy those things - rote memorization of disjointed facts or filling out job applications etc. I think they might be universally draining.
    I know many people that like rote memorization much more than learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I know many people that like rote memorization much more than learning
    Do they actually like it? Or are they just better at it than learning?
    Both.

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    routine tasks or routine physical activity wears me out like none other. having to stand somewhere and perform stupid, routine tasks that i don't actually have to focus on drives me out of my mind.

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    I wanted to make a topic like this some time now. I know exactly what you are talking about. Conversing with my father makes me want to lie down right there and sleep forever. Completely drains me of all will to live. It's kind of like that warm feeling right before you die from hypothermia.

    The thing with my father is that he is very manipulative and there is nothing I can do about it. He tries to do things for me, make decisions for me, tries to use my resources and time as if they were his own, and he uses tricks, lies and deception in his attempts to do it. And there is no point in trying to reason with him to make him stop, talking to him is worse then talking to a brick wall. He ignores all my efforts, and when I say ignores I mean he doesn't even acknowledge their existence. It's really weird, it's like he has no realization at all that what he is doing is wrong no matter how much I try to explain it to him. But I know that this is not the case, he perfectly understands what I'm trying to say to him, he just chooses to be like that. For the longest time I though this was because of him being SEE but I've recently realized he's EIE so I have no way to explain this phenomenon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I know many people that like rote memorization much more than learning
    Do they actually like it? Or are they just better at it than learning?
    Both.
    I think I know some people who like to just memorize too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I know many people that like rote memorization much more than learning
    Do they actually like it? Or are they just better at it than learning?
    Both.
    I think I know some people who like to just memorize too.
    I prefer memorization to learning as well. Learning is difficult and requires time and effort and quite frankly I'm lazy.

    EDIT: And I do like it and I am better at it then learning.

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    Business strategies are , filling out job applications one after the other is sequential and therefore . (and I should say, hotelambush, that I agree with you and think the fact that we INTjs must do such is completely unfair, especially given that most every online app nowadays demands you take a personality questionaire.)

    I think we can conclude from this that the most draining function is the 8th. It would also seem to afford each of us a mutual opportunity.

    I argue that social expectations should be completely revised to account for the existence of socionics. One wonders why such has not been implemented in Russia already, despite the Russian government's support of socionics.

    I suggest they begin this process right away. Perhaps the West will learn something.

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    I think xNxj types are probably most likely to have issues with fatigue. Weak Si and all.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    I'd say Ni-IPs have it the worst. IPs are the "laziest" by nature, and weak Si and Se obviously doesn't help.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Laziness or laid back-ness are not the same as fatigue by any stretch of the imagination.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    Looking after myself is also a problem -- trying to remember to eat/etc. really knocks me out. (Si)
    I very much relate to this. If I have to be responsible for that sort of thing, it's way more difficult than it should be to eat before I get all weird and whatnot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Isha
    Looking after myself is also a problem -- trying to remember to eat/etc. really knocks me out. (Si)
    I very much relate to this. If I have to be responsible for that sort of thing, it's way more difficult than it should be to eat before I get all weird and whatnot.
    I'm "lucky" at the moment in that if I don't eat at least every 4 hours I will become so sick that I can't get up off the floor. Good motivation, but still a tiring effort.
    I'm not that bad, but I don't realize that I need to eat until I can't concentrate, feel lightheaded, and/or get a headache. At that point it's too late. I'm unable to prepare anything for myself. Just deciding what to eat is next to impossible when I get like that. Having to deal eating is so frustrating. When I'm trying to eat healthy it's far worse because when I should eat something everything seems like far too much effort and I'll end up snacking on something I've deemed healthy, but it's not enough and I get weird as described above. There's no way to win!

    Except to have someone else handle the situation for you, of course.

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    Planning out schedules in advance may be your solution if time limitations don't prevent you from doing so. Come up with some favorite recipes with side dishes and whatnot, and then before you go grocery shopping plan out the meals for the week by picking out recipe cards. It definitely takes a lot of the stress out of eating when you don't have to think about what to eat.

    I've never used this approach but have considered it for years.

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    The types I see as having most issues with fatigue are negativist-IJs
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    hmm... by myself, and makes me fatigued, was it?

    i have two answers. i'm ok with routine tasks like filling in forms - i hate it but it does not fatigue me. probably due to 11 years of filling out forms and answering repetitive questions in tests and things in school - you either block it out or you work out some means to mentally centre yourself to face repetition whenyou gotta do it. what i do have real trouble with, is rote memorisation, when there's no structure or sense or logic to the whole bunch of things to remember. i think it's because my brain keeps trying to find a 'key' by which to simplify the learning, but can't find it, so i get fatigued easily. it just refuses to accept that it needs to simply memorise a bunch of things with nothing to attach them to, not even to each other in some structured way. not only does it tire me, it makes me cross and unhappy.

    the second thing that fatigues me is when i am expected to socialise, and i know no one, and there's no one around who i can relate to, and everybody has things in common with each other but those things bore me to death and i just want to curl up and fall asleep from the effort but can't since i'm among people. my brain really feels like it wants desperately to switch off. since it's so unpleasant and you can't just stop doing it and go away the way you can with the repetitive task and rote learning, i tend to avoid it and therefore don't practice overcoming it as much. so it still is something that tires me out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Business strategies are , filling out job applications one after the other is sequential and therefore . (and I should say, hotelambush, that I agree with you and think the fact that we INTjs must do such is completely unfair, especially given that most every online app nowadays demands you take a personality questionaire.)
    This seems bizarre, or at least out of step with other people's understanding of the functions. I understand where you're coming from though, because you have defined as being all about sequence. This comes from Augusta's associating with time. But from here, you associate a form of intuition with practical, S-like activities that involve collecting data and really don't have much to do with intuition in a Jungian sense, or in any way that would make the introverted form of whatever is the extraverted form of.

    Compare your response with the others, such as Gilly's:

    I'd say Ni-IPs have it the worst. IPs are the "laziest" by nature, and weak Si and Se obviously doesn't help.
    Quite a different set of definitions, a different Socionics that each one of you is considering, wouldn't you agree?

    I think we can conclude from this that the most draining function is the 8th. It would also seem to afford each of us a mutual opportunity.
    You're concluding that just because of your personal experience? What in Model 8 [EDIT: Model A...just a Freudian slip there. ] would suggest that the 8th should be the most draining function?

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    I think, rather, that the 7th function is the most boring/draining. That is the standard view, and it makes sense since it's unvalued and accepting (rather than the producing 8th function which can be interesting).

    As for rote memorization, I just memorized the entire Jimmy John's menu...in a single day. GO ME!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I think, rather, that the 7th function is the most boring/draining. That is the standard view, and it makes sense since it's unvalued and accepting (rather than the producing 8th function which can be interesting).
    HUH?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I think, rather, that the 7th function is the most boring/draining. That is the standard view, and it makes sense since it's unvalued and accepting (rather than the producing 8th function which can be interesting).
    HUH?
    Hm, maybe I didn't explain that very well. The 7th function is called "Ignoring" for a reason. I also personally find Te to be the most draining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I think, rather, that the 7th function is the most boring/draining. That is the standard view, and it makes sense since it's unvalued and accepting (rather than the producing 8th function which can be interesting).
    HUH?
    Hm, maybe I didn't explain that very well. The 7th function is called "Ignoring" for a reason. I also personally find Te to be the most draining.
    And it is until you reach a certain age, after which it becomes as natural as . The 7th function "ignores" other points of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I think, rather, that the 7th function is the most boring/draining. That is the standard view, and it makes sense since it's unvalued and accepting (rather than the producing 8th function which can be interesting).

    As for rote memorization, I just memorized the entire Jimmy John's menu...in a single day. GO ME!
    Just for clarification...just how standard is the "standard view" in this case...or, to phrase it another way, "who says?" Is there an article somewhere that says that the 7th function is the most boring/draining, or that it's called "ignoring" because it has to do with other people's point of view (as Tcaud suggests)?

    The "ID block" seems to be among the least understood and least discussed parts of Model A.

    The 7th function is called "ignoring"
    The 8th function is called "demonstrative"

    How much should we read into those names?
    Rick's site describes both as "strong" but also "vital" (what others refer to as unconscious).

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    I'll share what my personal analysis has uncovered:

    The 7th function is the function of aggression; however, this aggression has a purpose. It draws information EXCLUSIVELY from one of the four psychic domains I discussed in my primer thread, the domain drawn from being different from person to person. If two people draw from lines that are in opposition to each other, they will be in perpetual conflict that will only be mitigated by personal need. When people reach a state of feeling they have more to lose from cooperation with the line contrary to their own than they have to gain, conflict breaks out.

    When the four domains are in unison, they can "determine" the existence of objective information that applies to each of their respective strategies. This is the purpose of the eighth function: to create a final reconciliation between all of the information observed by the other seven functions. It is the role of the first 6 functions to try to piece together what the other domains are thinking, thus piecing together the environmental components of which one is not aware. The 7th function adds one's instinctual awareness -- the state of one's own domain strategy -- to the mix and passes on the accumulated information to the 8th function, which attempts to reconcile the information into one coherent whole.

    Some environments are better for reconciliation than others. We may spend several days attempting to gather the information necessary for a reconciliation we perceive as vital to our understanding. During the course of this period we may iterate through Model-A many, many times. When at last we perform this reconciliation, we have performed what Jung refers to as "individuation", an act of reconciliation of the demands of our psyche with the demands of our environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    I'll share what my personal analysis has uncovered:

    The 7th function is the function of aggression; however, this aggression has a purpose. It draws information EXCLUSIVELY from one of the four psychic domains I discussed in my primer thread, the domain drawn from being different from person to person. If two people draw from lines that are in opposition to each other, they will be in perpetual conflict that will only be mitigated by personal need. When people reach a state of feeling they have more to lose from cooperation with the line contrary to their own than they have to gain, conflict breaks out.

    When the four domains are in unison, they can "determine" the existence of objective information that applies to each of their respective strategies. This is the purpose of the eighth function: to create a final reconciliation between all of the information observed by the other seven functions. It is the role of the first 6 functions to try to piece together what the other domains are thinking, thus piecing together the environmental components of which one is not aware. The 7th function adds one's instinctual awareness -- the state of one's own domain strategy -- to the mix and passes on the accumulated information to the 8th function, which attempts to reconcile the information into one coherent whole.

    Some environments are better for reconciliation than others. We may spend several days attempting to gather the information necessary for a reconciliation we perceive as vital to our understanding. During the course of this period we may iterate through Model-A many, many times. When at last we perform this reconciliation, we have performed what Jung refers to as "individuation", an act of reconciliation of the demands of our psyche with the demands of our environment.

    just shut up

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    Why? It's the truth.

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    It is. Well, the middle paragraph is shady, despite the fact that it is coincident with my experience, but the rest is fine.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Now if only people in the Beltway were aware of it.

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