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Thread: Type and brain chemistry

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    Default Type and brain chemistry

    Though there are individual differences in brain chemistry within each type, I also think there are similarities. There's an article about this at the Enneagram Institute's website; basically it's been hypothesized that different types have different levels of neurotransmitters in their brains, specifically dopamine (drive, motivation, energy-level, ability to concentrate), norepinephrine (related to anxiety levels, mental focus), and serotonin (feelings of well-being or lack thereof). Here's the link:
    "The Enneagram and Brain Chemistry"
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

    How do you think this relates to Socionics types? I know that certain types, by their very description, likely have different levels of neurotransmitters than others (I, as an INFp and a 4w5, sometimes display symptoms of low serotonin and dopamine, but not always). Also, if a person is treated with a specific medication (i.e. an SSRI like Prozac, or a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as Wellbutrin or L-Dopa), how do you think this would this affect his or her type?
    I know this is just one variable and that there are a ton of variables that contribute to one's overall type, and also that the brain is an incredibly complex mechanism whose total actions can't be fully explained by these three neurotransmitters, but I find the topic interesting nonetheless. Thoughts?
    INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
    Back in school and on semi-permanent hiatus from the forum

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Type and brain chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    Also, if a person is treated with a specific medication (i.e. an SSRI like Prozac, or a dopamine reuptake inhibitor such as Wellbutrin or L-Dopa), how do you think this would this affect his or her type?
    I can't offer any input on the rest of it, but I can say that last year I was dealing with major issues of out-of-control Ne. Things had gotten so bad that I decided to check out what medications were available. Wellbutrin seemed to be just the thing I needed. I discussed it with my doctor, and he gave me the prescription. The first week on it was unlike anything I've ever experienced before. For that one week, I knew what it was like to be Se dominant. I was totally in the moment, I didn't have thoughts distracting me, I felt as if I was actually aligned with my body (instead of feeling out-of-phase from it), I was able to decide what I wanted to do, do it, stop in the middle and turn to something else if needed...without having that damned feeling of half of me being left behind wanting to finish the activity. I had no desire to philosophize or find meanings in anything. The mere thought of being on the forum here was...kind of gross...like why waste my time when I could be doing more interesting things in real life/time, with real objects, real people, etc. Walking down the street I noticed the items along the road for almost the first time. They were so ..there...so real...no longer things that could easily be overlooked. And I understood why Se people are considered to be aggressive. Not because of anger/irritation/wanting to dominant....but because these ....things..these ..toys....are there, available, ready (and willing..hehe) to be moved around in whatever arrangement I want, all I had to do was do it!

    Unfortunately the experience only lasted a week. My body adjusted to it. The doctor and I tried playing around with it to try to get that feeling back, to no avail. Eventually it stopped doing even minor effects on what my mind was doing, so I quit the medication. (I have since removed most of the triggers that were causing the issue in the first place.)

    Now I am playing around with meditation, "be here now" stuff, and body awareness, attempting to get even a small symblance of that experience.
    (If I can just stay awake long enough when I try them...heheh)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Wow Ann, that's intense. I couldn't imagine experiencing a total overhaul of my personality within a week or so; I think I'd go nuts (then again, I already am nuts). But I'm glad the overall sensation didn't last, because I don't think you should have to lose your "self" in order to be functional and happy. One of your greatest gifts as an ENFp, and as a person, is your deep thinking and creativity, and I would hate for our society to lose out on people like you. This is one of the reasons why I enjoy studying personality typology: it reminds us that different people can be successful in different ways.

    Now I am playing around with meditation, "be here now" stuff, and body awareness, attempting to get even a small symblance of that experience.
    (If I can just stay awake long enough when I try them...heheh)
    I'm sure there are more than a few ISTps out there who would love to help you out with that kind of stuff . In the meantime, I suggest a warm bubble bath with scented candles, ahhh.
    INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
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    Brain chemistry is more related to enneagram types.

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Brain chemistry is more related to enneagram types.

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp
    People have discussed the correlation between enneagram and socionics. Some socionics types seem to have certain enneagram types.

    I think at the very least brain chemistry is strongly related to the temperament. EJ's get excited a bit slower, but then they get very excited and they get excited for longer. IJ's also get excited slow, but they don't get so excited and it lasts even longer. EP types get excited fast and they get very excited. IP types also get excited fast, but they lose the excitement very fast.

    In theory this also applies in arguments. The EP and IP are the first to get angry, but IP keeps it to himself in the beginning. Then EJ and IJ get angry and the EJ shows it. Then they start to cool down. EP cools down very fast. Also the IP - no more agressive input, no more anger (very simplyfied, but accurate compared to others). But EJ and IJ are angry long after the EP and IP are already calm. I assume EP-IP duals can have 5-minute fights with no bad consequences. But EJ-IJ duals can have long grudges, because anger keeps feeding anger and the fight has a hard time really ending. They are more likely to discuss the fight afterwords. Fights between J and P are the most tricky, because J holds a grudge even after the P has forgot what the fight was about. Ouch, that looks like a complicated post. sorry.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    *poof*

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    that's interesting. do you think that's Ni or rationality?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    sounds like an isfj
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    that's interesting. do you think that's Ni or rationality?
    A rational solution to a -problem. It seems to me that Ni dominants have similar situations, but they don't stop adding things to their list. I think they are even more likely to do new things, to get their mind off their problems. Another way to say "Ni types start to procrastinate if they have problems they can't easily solve." I get all hidden agenda and I start giving myself strict rules - no playing until I after the exam! No TV until I have sent those emails! No diversions and no new activities until I get myself out of the mess I'm in.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    sounds like an isfj
    lol, maybe you've just dated ENFjs!
    Ask Rick if I'm ISFj! I bet you'd think Expat's biased, because he's known me for too long, but Rick should be someone you'd trust with a thing like that, because he has seen me, he's knowledgeable in socionics, he has no obligations towards me.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
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    I think this is really interesting. I am wary of anything that will change my brain chemistry. I feel as if it will "change who i am". Have you guys who have taken medication felt like different people, or just the same people who had some obstacles removed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    IME, Ni makes people depressed in the opposite way. I feel like I have to do something new, something fun, but I don't let myself start any new things until I have finished the things that I already have. This means that for a few weeks I say "No!" to anything that I wouldn't be doing anyway. I even refuse the smallest of obligations that would take about 5 minutes to do. The problems start when a Ni type ends up having many obligations that are nearly impossible to do. Can't "check" anything off the "to do" list because the tasks are too difficult, can't do anything, because there's no motivation, Ni type needs to get something done to get motivation, can't add anything to the list, because haven't yet finished with the tasks at hand...
    sounds like an isfj
    lol, maybe you've just dated ENFjs!
    lol, that occurred to me too...

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    *poof*

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I think this is really interesting. I am wary of anything that will change my brain chemistry. I feel as if it will "change who i am". Have you guys who have taken medication felt like different people, or just the same people who had some obstacles removed?
    this is a bit hard for me to answer.
    on the medication, my perceptions were different, my reactions were different, my normal mode of functioning was obviously different, and i had no desire to seeking the meaning in ANYthing, and I had no what ifs running through my head, no scenarious taking up my attention/time/energy etc.
    so yes, i was a different person, but at that point, i didn't care..i mean, there was no thoughts of "i should be more like i was before"...there was only..."i am", "now".

    after the medication...that was a different story.
    i was right back into the out of control Ne that i had before i'd taken the medication. nothing had changed other than now i had an idea of how things really could be. oh, and the bit of depression at being right back in square one and not having obtained the goals i'd set out to when i'd chosen to try the meds.

    so i guess, different person....with different obstacles to overcome
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    @anndelise: wow that's weird....we attribute similar things to Ne dominance.....i was posting at the same time you were, so i didn't read your post until i had already posted mine....

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Let's just let it be understood that brain chemistry itself is... very poorly understood. Although the basics are down, it's not the basics that create personality. It's the relationship between them.

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