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Thread: I hate Gammas lol

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Default I hate Gammas lol

    SEE : Only wants to talk because they're not able to do anything else, and because they have a low IQ.
    ESI : Manipulative, reckless, aggressive, narrow-minded. His only friends are the people with which he does business.
    LIE : Always busy with projects, no time to deal with you, only wants money because money is so coooool...
    ILI : Unsociable, lazy do-nothings which dream all the time because they can't socialise. They believe they are computers.

    lololol

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    Pretty accurate descriptions of LIEs and ILIs, not very accurate of SEEs and ESIs. The word "aggressive" does not capture the nature of ESIs, and SEEs act just as much as they talk.

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    Default Re: I hate Gammas lol

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    ESI : Manipulative, reckless, aggressive, narrow-minded. His only friends are the people with which he does business.
    I don't think this is accurate even as caricature, especially the "only friends are the people with which he does business". That is not the nature of ESI's at all. If ESIs are selective about their friends from an Alpha perspective, sure, but it's surely not about "doing business" with them.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Pretty accurate descriptions of LIEs and ILIs, not very accurate of SEEs and ESIs. The word "aggressive" does not capture the nature of ESIs, and SEEs act just as much as they talk.
    Don't take these descriptions too seriously...

    ESI's are not "aggressive" by their nature. They tend to become aggressive when they are put under stress. Negativist Judging types are those who have the lowest stress tolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Don't take these descriptions too seriously...
    I don't. And if not taken too seriously at least your ILI description is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    ESI's are not "aggressive" by their nature. They tend to become aggressive when they are put under stress. Negativist Judging types are those who have the lowest stress tolerance.
    You are right about what you say here, except that the stressful "aggressiveness" of ESI's is clearly different from the aggressiveness of some other types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Don't take these descriptions too seriously...
    I don't. And if not taken too seriously at least your ILI description is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    ESI's are not "aggressive" by their nature. They tend to become aggressive when they are put under stress. Negativist Judging types are those who have the lowest stress tolerance.
    You are right about what you say here, except that the stressful "aggressiveness" of ESI's is clearly different from the aggressiveness of some other types.
    This is a thing I discovered by studying my father. He's ESI and he's head of a trade company. He's also head of his family, or rather of what's remaining of it - his wife (EIE), and myself (LII). This is one case among others, but sufficient to prove that Gulenko was wrong by saying E / I = leading / subordinating. This is why ESI's interest me for practical socionic studies.

    Actually, as Introtims have, in average, brains which produce less serotonin than Extrotims, they are even more likely to have aggressive behaviour than Extrotims. (As far as I know, 2/3 of the people who harmed me physically were Introtims).

    Myersian description of ISFJ is "the ultimate subordinator", which totally contradicts with socionic ESI.

    As you said, all types can be aggressive, but there are traits influencing aggressivity : Introtimness, Sensing, Negativism, Judgement.

    For example, an ESI would get aggresive for reasons, as an LSE would get aggressive for reasons.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    ENTj do not care about money. They care about ideas, like any other NT. From their perspective, economics is pretty much the best area where they can exercise their compulsion for building efficient systems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    ENTj do not care about money. They care about ideas, like any other NT. From their perspective, economics is pretty much the best area where they can exercise their compulsion for building efficient systems.


    you have now lost what little respect you still maintained. you clearly have absolutely zero idea what socionics is about and have shown utterly no interest in rectifying the misinformation possessed by your clearly empty cranium.

    get out of this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc


    Actually, as Introtims have, in average, brains which produce less serotonin than Extrotims, they are even more likely to have aggressive behaviour than Extrotims. (As far as I know, 2/3 of the people who harmed me physically were Introtims).
    are you kidding me?


    where did you come up with the serotonin thing? show me some reputable source that asserts it.

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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    you have now lost what little respect you still maintained. you clearly have absolutely zero idea what socionics is about and have shown utterly no interest in rectifying the misinformation possessed by your clearly empty cranium.

    get out of this forum.
    I'll consider it.

    In the meanwhile, why do you think your respect is a so desirable thing? Who do you think you are?
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    you have now lost what little respect you still maintained. you clearly have absolutely zero idea what socionics is about and have shown utterly no interest in rectifying the misinformation possessed by your clearly empty cranium.

    get out of this forum.
    I'll consider it.

    In the meanwhile, why do you think your respect is a so desirable thing? Who do you think you are?

    i think i am infinitely more knowledgeable than some fucking braindead idiot like you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    ENTj do not care about money. They care about ideas, like any other NT. From their perspective, economics is pretty much the best area where they can exercise their compulsion for building efficient systems.


    you have now lost what little respect you still maintained. you clearly have absolutely zero idea what socionics is about and have shown utterly no interest in rectifying the misinformation possessed by your clearly empty cranium.

    get out of this forum.
    That seems maybe a bit of a strong response to reasonably constructive post (?). Of course, according to the quadra values thing, Gammas care about money, but not everyone agrees with that. Of the ENTjs I know, most of them are very good with money, but they differ in the degree to which they "care" about it. I think Mikemex's contributions are reasonable points of view to be considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    I think Mikemex's contributions are reasonable points of view to be considered.
    and i do not.

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    i think a really similar list could be constructed for alpha types. i don't think the descriptions are all that innacurate but more like a description of general temperaments. like ESFjs can be "too busy" for you all the time as well as ENTjs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    ENTj do not care about money. They care about ideas, like any other NT. From their perspective, economics is pretty much the best area where they can exercise their compulsion for building efficient systems.
    I agree, for the most part.

    There may be some ENTjs that do care about money and get all excited over it. But you can see, when you observe and interact with them, that it IS the efficient system building involved in their schemes that they're most getting a charge out of.

    And yes, there ARE some who don't care about the money so much, as they do not require much materially to enjoy life, and also recognize this distinction, so that they WILL say - it's not the money - but they find the economic puzzles, or systems network design, or whatever it is - to be the real point of stimulation for them.

    [hr:c88daf3737]
    [hr:c88daf3737]

    As for the rest of the assertions at the start of this thread, they are absolutely ridiculous, even as caricatures. I have known high IQ ESFp physicians and engineers/business owners, non-greedy ENTjs who DO make time to engage others for purely social reasons, passive and cautious (yet active, independent and obstinate ) ISFjs with many good NON-business friendships, and sociable and active INTps. And I have also known low IQ INTjs, greedy ISFps, blah blah blah - who cares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    As for the rest of the assertions at the start of this thread, they are absolutely ridiculous, even as caricatures. I have known high IQ ESFp physicians and engineers/business owners, non-greedy ENTjs who DO make time to engage others for purely social reasons, passive and cautious (yet active, independent and obstinate ) ISFjs with many good NON-business friendships, and sociable and active INTps. And I have also known low IQ INTjs, greedy ISFps, blah blah blah - who cares.
    These are stereotypes lol

    for LIE's, Gulenko said that + was productive, and - was financial. LIE is Result so he has dominant -

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    As for the rest of the assertions at the start of this thread, they are absolutely ridiculous, even as caricatures. I have known high IQ ESFp physicians and engineers/business owners, non-greedy ENTjs who DO make time to engage others for purely social reasons, passive and cautious (yet active, independent and obstinate ) ISFjs with many good NON-business friendships, and sociable and active INTps. And I have also known low IQ INTjs, greedy ISFps, blah blah blah - who cares.
    These are stereotypes lol

    for LIE's, Gulenko said that + was productive, and - was financial. LIE is Result so he has dominant -
    Many of the posts that create these various controversies tend to reference Gulenko. I wonder if really the root of many of the Socionics debates here is that Gulenko Socionics is different from some of the other schools of Socionics. If Gulenko's system is really basically a different theory, or different dialect from, say, the Socionics that Dmitri and some others use, that would explain a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Many of the posts that create these various controversies tend to reference Gulenko. I wonder if really the root of many of the Socionics debates here is that Gulenko Socionics is different from some of the other schools of Socionics. If Gulenko's system is really basically a different theory, or different dialect from, say, the Socionics that Dmitri and some others use, that would explain a lot.
    I don't think it's different; it's rather that at one point he was rather prolific in proposing alternative versions of Socionics.

    For instance, once he proposed a way of looking into intertype relationships based on temperaments and clubs rather than model A. So EJs would get along best with IJs and worse with IPs; and clubs would be complementary, so NT and SF for instance, so ENTj + ISFj = dual pair. That model would have some problems since (if I understood it right) it would mean that the relationship between ENTj and ISFp would be better than with an ISTp or INFp.

    So, the real question is whether he really thinks all of those ideas he floats are true, or if they are just something he thinks is worth considering.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Many of the posts that create these various controversies tend to reference Gulenko. I wonder if really the root of many of the Socionics debates here is that Gulenko Socionics is different from some of the other schools of Socionics. If Gulenko's system is really basically a different theory, or different dialect from, say, the Socionics that Dmitri and some others use, that would explain a lot.
    I don't think it's different; it's rather that at one point he was rather prolific in proposing alternative versions of Socionics.

    For instance, once he proposed a way of looking into intertype relationships based on temperaments and clubs rather than model A. So EJs would get along best with IJs and worse with IPs; and clubs would be complementary, so NT and SF for instance, so ENTj + ISFj = dual pair. That model would have some problems since (if I understood it right) it would mean that the relationship between ENTj and ISFp would be better than with an ISTp or INFp.
    Interesting theory. Is this online somewhere? It would actually make sense in regard to my own experiences.

    So, the real question is whether he really thinks all of those ideas he floats are true, or if they are just something he thinks is worth considering.
    He sounds like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    Interesting theory. Is this online somewhere? It would actually make sense in regard to my own experiences.
    It used to be available in the Russian version of Lytov's website (not sure if it's in the English version). To have full access to all the literature he links to, the best way is to use babelfish or similar to access the Russian version of his library, and access the links from there. I think that one is listed in "alternative Socionics" or "odd socionics" or whatever, but I'm not sure.

    Alternatively, in the Russian version he also lists the articles linked by author, so just look for all Gulenko papers. I can't give you more precise directions than these, sorry.

    I think the theory is worth looking at, since it does explain why, for instance (ime) super-egos get along rather better than you'd expect from an opposite quadra and super-ego functions; the common temperament and the complementary club would sort of compensate for that.

    However, where I disagree is on contraries and identicals -- according to the theory, say, ENTj-INTj relationships should be as good as ENTj-ENTj, or even better - since it's the same club + complementary temperaments, and yet contrary relationships are clearly worse than identical, imo and ime. So it's a theory worth thinking about, to properly consider the role of temperaments, but I don't think it's superior or even equal to quadra-based relationships.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    However, where I disagree is on contraries and identicals -- according to the theory, say, ENTj-INTj relationships should be as good as ENTj-ENTj, or even better - since it's the same club + complementary temperaments, and yet contrary relationships are clearly worse than identical, imo and ime. So it's a theory worth thinking about, to properly consider the role of temperaments, but I don't think it's superior or even equal to quadra-based relationships.
    Thanks for the info. That would be odd for him to suggest that contraries would be better than identicals. However, the idea that they might be better than expected from Model A makes more sense to me. It seems also that one should distinguish between what makes for great long-term relationships, and what kinds of people one gets along with well on a casual basis. In my experience, it seems that contrary relations may work especially well for casual friendships, because there are similar expectations in terms of rat/irrat, and because the differences in how each person sees things can be interesting.

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    bump

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I don't hate gammas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    every time I look at this picture I laugh for two hours straight.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    SEE : Only wants to talk because they're not able to do anything else, and because they have a low IQ.
    ESI : Manipulative, reckless, aggressive, narrow-minded. His only friends are the people with which he does business.
    LIE : Always busy with projects, no time to deal with you, only wants money because money is so coooool...
    ILI : Unsociable, lazy do-nothings which dream all the time because they can't socialise. They believe they are computers.

    lololol
    LOL@your descriptions. Youre a hateful man arent you.

    Anyway, alphas/gammes = 2 sides of the same coin.

    Ponder that for awhile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    LOL@your descriptions. Youre a hateful man arent you.
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    ... I'm not hostile. I'm really a kind guy.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    ENTj do not care about money. They care about ideas, like any other NT. From their perspective, economics is pretty much the best area where they can exercise their compulsion for building efficient systems.
    mikemex was ahead of his time

    RIP too beautiful for this world

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    LSE's are supposedly better at materializing LIE goal while LIE's are better at being recklessly all over the place which LSE might secretly want to do.

    The weirdness of kindred types.
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    FTR, I think gammas are awesome people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    LSE's are supposedly better at materializing LIE goal while LIE's are better at being recklessly all over the place which LSE might secretly want to do
    What this means in sex:


    • LIEs will want to give you multiple orgasms. They'll fantasize about it, but LSEs will most likely deliver the results.
    • LIEs will roll all over the bed. By 5 AM, you'll be stuck on 16 sq inches of space. Meanwhile, LSE will be aware of your body's needs/space but secretly covet the day they can take over the bed.


    Note to self: have sex with LSE, but disappear sporadically (to talk to LIE about intriguing fantasies) so that LSE can hog the bed.

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    I feel that way about alphas and deltas mostly, tbh. Boring ass comfort seekers. Who gives a shit about what you had for dinner last night? I sure as hell don't.

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    Their hypocrisy kills me

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelocust View Post
    Their hypocrisy kills me
    How they are hypocrites in your experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    How they are hypocrites in your experience?
    From my experience, they have a specific way they want to be treated or think others should be treated, but treat you poorly themselves and don't really take a second thought to the consequences of their actions or words as long as their needs are being met and they are getting what they want. They advocate for understanding and tolerance, but do crappy things to others themselves out of spite and don't always understand where others are coming from. But they think they know.
    Last edited by thelocust; 12-09-2017 at 03:02 AM.

  36. #36

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    When gammas get too arrogant/full of themselves (that gamma bite tho) they are difficult to be around. Like unnecessarily burning bridges because they are so obsessed with being 'right' in a narcissistically perfect way. And they can be way way too serious, like opposite of Alpha playfulness. It feels too much like trapping yourself in this invisible box in a way.

    But in a conflict I do appreciate gammas having my back. You really feel the strength of substance when a gamma is on your side.

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