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    Default I can not understand this

    Whenever I take the test I score an INTP, but the description that sounds most like me is INFJ. Is this something that is typical? Any ideas as to why this is happening and how I can come to a solution? If this helps, I am certain that I am an INFP in Kiersey's temperament sorter.

    Thanks.

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    Creepy-bg

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    you're probably an ESFp :wink:

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    Default Re: I can not understand this

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Whenever I take the test I score an INTP, but the description that sounds most like me is INFJ. Is this something that is typical? Any ideas as to why this is happening and how I can come to a solution? If this helps, I am certain that I am an INFP in Kiersey's temperament sorter.
    Which test are you talking about now?

    Anyway, assuming that you are a Socionics INFj, I don't find it so odd that you'd score as INTP in a MBTI (or even some Socionics) tests:

    - Fi IJs often test as "T" since many test answers assume that "F" = Fe
    - INFjs (as INTjs) often test as "P" due to the nature of some questions

    Personally I have little time for Keirsey but if you fully identify with INFP there, test as INTP, and identify with INFJ profiles, I think INFj is a good solution overall.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default Re: I can not understand this

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    I am certain that I am an INFP in Kiersey's temperament sorter.
    I would like to know why you are so certain of that. His temperament sorter is not designed to distinguish between the four NF Idealist types, so I guess you have read his type descriptions and decided that you fit his INFP profile better than his INFJ and INTP profiles. Is that correct? If you compare Keirsey's INFP and INFJ profiles, you will see that -- seen from a socionic perspective -- he describes the INFP in a way that clearly resembles how INFps with as leading function are described in Socionics. And when Keirsey describes the INFJ one gets the impression that he describes a type with as leading function -- an INFj.

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    try this one, it has proven to be very accurate.

    http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

    fill in the answers as who you are now, not how you want to be.

  6. #6
    Creepy-Diana

    Default Re: I can not understand this

    .

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    Socionics is not about test scores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Socionics is not about test scores.
    But if you wanna find out which type someone is, then the next best thing to meeting him in person is letting him do a test.

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    I think INFjs and INTps are very similar in many ways. They have most of the same Reinin dichotomies, they are introverts who strongly value Fi. INFjs have Fi program, which is by default the strongest functions in A model. The entire world is seen through this function. INTps have Fi hidden agenda, which is an extremely strong function, because everyone else is judged by their ability to use this function. INTps value extremely moral people, but by doing that, they enforce moral values. Both INFj and INTp are intuitive and it gives them the kind of general dreaminess.

    When you read about these types, you'll realize that they have differences as well. Unfortunately, Ni types have strong Ne and vice versa, so you'll identify with both Ne and Ni. This will not help you with your type search. The next thing you'll do is read Te and Fi descriptions. This might not help you either, because people often like to think that they have very strong super ID functions, but they take their ego functions for granted. INFj likes to think that they are very practical, but assumes that everyone has strong moral values. INTp likes to think that they are very moral, but assumes that everyone only does practical things. Fi and Te descriptions therefore will probably not help you either.

    The best thing to do is to read more about judging and perceiving types. Keep in mind that it's not a simple dichotomy like in MBTI. Try to figure out if you analyze and categorize the world according to your own standards and values or you just go with the flow and do what's the best thing to do in each certain situation.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    try this one, it has proven to be very accurate.

    http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

    fill in the answers as who you are now, not how you want to be.
    Here was my score:

    Your Type is:
    ISTJ - Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
    Strength of the preferences %
    67 1 1 22

    I read about the ISTJ and though I found that I shared in a lot of the traits of this type, there were some things that did not add up. I am generally optimistic and want those around me to be in good spirits which is not something that the ISTJ seems to value...

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    Default Re: I can not understand this

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Whenever I take the test I score an INTP, but the description that sounds most like me is INFJ. Is this something that is typical? Any ideas as to why this is happening and how I can come to a solution? If this helps, I am certain that I am an INFP in Kiersey's temperament sorter.
    Which test are you talking about now?

    Anyway, assuming that you are a Socionics INFj, I don't find it so odd that you'd score as INTP in a MBTI (or even some Socionics) tests:

    - Fi IJs often test as "T" since many test answers assume that "F" = Fe
    - INFjs (as INTjs) often test as "P" due to the nature of some questions

    Personally I have little time for Keirsey but if you fully identify with INFP there, test as INTP, and identify with INFJ profiles, I think INFj is a good solution overall.
    The test I took is the general one for this site, the Type Assistant.

  12. #12
    Creepy-bg

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    all the tests suck... forget about them. Ok maybe not "suck" but your chances of getting the right type taking a test are like 50/50 (statistics curtesy of my ass :wink: ). basically you take a test... it gives you a type... it could be right, it could be wrong... "well that was productive "

    if you want to know your type it's going to take some learning.

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    Default Re: I can not understand this

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    I am certain that I am an INFP in Kiersey's temperament sorter.
    I would like to know why you are so certain of that. His temperament sorter is not designed to distinguish between the four NF Idealist types, so I guess you have read his type descriptions and decided that you fit his INFP profile better than his INFJ and INTP profiles. Is that correct? If you compare Keirsey's INFP and INFJ profiles, you will see that -- seen from a socionic perspective -- he describes the INFP in a way that clearly resembles how INFps with as leading function are described in Socionics. And when Keirsey describes the INFJ one gets the impression that he describes a type with as leading function -- an INFj.
    You are right that I determined INFP for the Kiersey Temperament sorter by reading the descriptions. (Although his test told me I was an INFJ.) I do not identify with the INFJ of Kiersey much at all, and I identify with the INFp of Socionics even less.

    Maybe this will help, I feel as though I have good Ti and Fi.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Yeah, I don't know. INFj on Socionics sounds the best to me, but nothing seems entirely right...

  16. #16
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    but nothing seems entirely right...
    that's because it isn't

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    try this one, it has proven to be very accurate.

    http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

    fill in the answers as who you are now, not how you want to be.
    Here was my score:

    Your Type is:
    ISTJ - Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
    Strength of the preferences %
    67 1 1 22

    I read about the ISTJ and though I found that I shared in a lot of the traits of this type, there were some things that did not add up. I am generally optimistic and want those around me to be in good spirits which is not something that the ISTJ seems to value...
    This is not a socionics test!

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Socionics is not about test scores.
    I agree

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    Default Re: I can not understand this

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    You are right that I determined INFP for the Kiersey Temperament sorter by reading the descriptions. (Although his test told me I was an INFJ.) I do not identify with the INFJ of Kiersey much at all, and I identify with the INFp of Socionics even less.
    It is strange that you identify with Keirsey's INFP but not with a socionic INFp, since they are very similarly described. You probably focus on the wrong aspects when reading the type descriptions. A socionic INFp is without doubt the one type in Socionics that is most similar to Keirsey's INFP. So either you are not an INFp or you are not an INFP according to Keirsey's description.

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    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    Yes, of course they are wrong and I am right in that case. I understand type descriptions better than most people on this forum and certainly better than any newcomer. That is not arrogance, that is the truth. And it is not about experience, it is about correct understanding of type descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    Yes, of course they are wrong and I am right in that case. I understand type descriptions better than most people on this forum and certainly better than any newcomer. That is not arrogance, that is the truth. And it is not about experience, it is about correct understanding of type descriptions.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    Yes, of course they are wrong and I am right in that case. I understand type descriptions better than most people on this forum and certainly better than any newcomer. That is not arrogance, that is the truth. And it is not about experience, it is about correct understanding of type descriptions.
    Your comment screams incompetence. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Study Socionics more, and stop making such stupid remarks.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    Yes, of course they are wrong and I am right in that case. I understand type descriptions better than most people on this forum and certainly better than any newcomer. That is not arrogance, that is the truth. And it is not about experience, it is about correct understanding of type descriptions.
    Your comment screams incompetence. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Study Socionics more, and stop making such stupid remarks.
    Your comment screams incompetence. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Study Socionics more, and stop making such stupid remarks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    So someone has a different experience than you have relating to different descriptions, and you assume they're wrong and your experience is the only valid one?
    Yes, of course they are wrong and I am right in that case. I understand type descriptions better than most people on this forum and certainly better than any newcomer. That is not arrogance, that is the truth. And it is not about experience, it is about correct understanding of type descriptions.
    Your comment screams incompetence. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Study Socionics more, and stop making such stupid remarks.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Are the people who disagree with pheadrus claiming that keirseys INFJ, socionics INFJ and mbti INFJ are different persons?

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    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Are the people who disagree with pheadrus claiming that keirseys INFJ, socionics INFJ and mbti INFJ are different persons?
    sometimes they are... sometimes they aren't...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I think INFjs and INTps are very similar in many ways.
    I think they're worlds apart.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I think INFjs and INTps are very similar in many ways.
    I think they're worlds apart.
    I would also say that their is a great difference between them.

    they have very different interests.

    INTP far more use logical reasoning. INFJ far more take into account their relationship with other people.

    The thing that they have most obviously incommon is that they are introverts.

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    Phaedrus: I agree that you know a lot more about all this than I do, but I disagree with you none the less. To me INFj of Socionics is much closer to the INFP of Keirsey. The INFp of Socionics is all about drama, appearance and elegance where as the INFP of Keirsey as described as Sir Galahad or Joan of Arc. The INFP is supposed to be at once the monastic and the crusader while the INFp is (not to be offensive but) the drama queen. I think you are making a mistake...

    Plus I have often heard that Kiersey's temperament sorter and Socionics often differ in whether they say you are J or P and this is especially the case for I's. Here is a quote directly from the main site:

    Although I am using the MBTI-style type designations here, do not assume your MBTI type is your Socionics type. Really, it's best to forget what you know about MBTI while on this(or any other) Socionics site. However, in general, the E types are usually the same while the I types are typically their J-P counterpart(ie MBTI ISFP will be Socionics ISFJ).
    To everyone else: Are there any particular things I could tell you about myself that would be helpful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Phaedrus: I agree that you know a lot more about all this than I do, but I disagree with you none the less. To me INFj of Socionics is much closer to the INFP of Keirsey. The INFp of Socionics is all about drama, appearance and elegance where as the INFP of Keirsey as described as Sir Galahad or Joan of Arc. The INFP is supposed to be at once the monastic and the crusader while the INFp is (not to be offensive but) the drama queen. I think you are making a mistake...
    How does Keirsey describe the INFJs? Is there anything in his INFJ Counselor profile that can give us a clue which type that would be in a socionic framework? Apparently there is.

    Keirsey describes the INFJ as having a "strong ability to take into themselves the feelings of others. He says that they have "strong emphatic abilities" and that they "can become aware of another's emotions or intentions – good or evil – even before that person is conscious of them. Such mind-reading can take the form of feeling the hidden distress or illnesses of others to an extent which is difficult for other types to comprehend."

    If we compare with the INFP Healer it becomes even more clear which socionic type Keirsey (without knowing it) is referring to. He describes the INFPs as treating themselves "and relating to others in a conciliatory manner, helping to restore lost unity, integrity, or what INFPs call 'oneness'." The idealism of Keirsey's INFPs is "almost boundless and selfless, inspiring them to make extraordinary sacrifices for someone or something they believe in. They are the Shaman, Medicine Man, or Witch Doctor of the tribe, the Prince or Princess in fairy tales, the True Knight or Defender of the Faith." They "seek unity within themselves, and between themselves and others". INFPs "prefer to follow their intuition rather than logic". Their "impressions are gained in a fluid, global, diffused way" ... "They show a tendency to take deliberate liberties with logic, believing as they do (and unlike the Rationals) that logic is something optional. They may also, at times, assume an unwarranted familiarity with a certain subject matter, believing in their impressionistic way that they 'know all about that,' though they've never really mastered the details. They have difficulty thinking in conditional 'if-then' terms; they to see things as either black or white, and can be impatient with contingency."

    In a socionic perspective it should be pretty obvious to everyone (IF YOU READ THE SOCIONIC TYPE PROFILES AND THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE FUNCTIONS AND ) that when Keirsey is describing an INFJ Counselor, he is, as a matter of fact, describing a type that is most similar to an EII with as leading function, and when he describes an INFP Healer there should be absolutely no doubt in our minds that he is describing an IEI with as leading function. Comparing types in this way also makes it easier for us to see both the many similarites and the essential differences between IEIs and ILIs. The INTps (especially those with strong ) have a romantic side, and their thinking process is, in many ways, similar to the INFp's. But the differences between IEIs and ILIs are also striking, for example their irreconcilable attitudes towards logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Plus I have often heard that Kiersey's temperament sorter and Socionics often differ in whether they say you are J or P and this is especially the case for I's. Here is a quote directly from the main site:

    Although I am using the MBTI-style type designations here, do not assume your MBTI type is your Socionics type. Really, it's best to forget what you know about MBTI while on this(or any other) Socionics site. However, in general, the E types are usually the same while the I types are typically their J-P counterpart(ie MBTI ISFP will be Socionics ISFJ).
    That quote is clearly misleading and you should pay no attention to it. THE INTROVERTED TYPES DO NOT SWITCH BETWEEN J AND P IF YOU SWITH MODEL. Many people here can confirm that that is true.

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    [quote="Hector"]
    Although I am using the MBTI-style type designations here, do not assume your MBTI type is your Socionics type. Really, it's best to forget what you know about MBTI while on this(or any other) Socionics site. However, in general, the E types are usually the same while the I types are typically their J-P counterpart(ie MBTI ISFP will be Socionics ISFJ).
    yes this is a misconception.

    see the number 2 rule: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10212

    mbti INFJ = socionics INFJ = keirsey INFJ
    just descriptions from a different angle.

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    Hector, there is some disagreement around here about this as of late. Some people believe they're all talking about the same things, and some people believe they're not that related and more potentially confusing than anything else.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Phaedrus: I agree that you know a lot more about all this than I do, but I disagree with you none the less. To me INFj of Socionics is much closer to the INFP of Keirsey. The INFp of Socionics is all about drama, appearance and elegance where as the INFP of Keirsey as described as Sir Galahad or Joan of Arc. The INFP is supposed to be at once the monastic and the crusader while the INFp is (not to be offensive but) the drama queen. I think you are making a mistake...
    Yes, you're right Hector, Phaedrus is making a mistake. However, I do think that drama might be overemphasized for INFps in some socionics descriptions. Have you looked at Rick's site? There's lots of good information there, and very readable.
    Anyone who bothers to READ and COMPARE the IEI descriptions with Keirsey's INFP Healer description MUST come to the conclusion that they are talking about the same group of people. I thought that my comments above would make that perfectly clear to everyone, but some people simply refuse to open their eyes and understand. Pay special attention to what is said about lost unity and oneness. That is obviously as you can see if you compare with what is said about in Socionics. And this part:

    INFPs "prefer to follow their intuition rather than logic". Their "impressions are gained in a fluid, global, diffused way" ... "They show a tendency to take deliberate liberties with logic, believing as they do (and unlike the Rationals) that logic is something optional. They may also, at times, assume an unwarranted familiarity with a certain subject matter, believing in their impressionistic way that they 'know all about that,' though they've never really mastered the details. They have difficulty thinking in conditional 'if-then' terms; they to see things as either black or white, and can be impatient with contingency."
    could have been taken from an IEI type description. That is almost exactly how typical IEI traits are described in Socionics.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    This isn't the place for your arguments, and you're not helping any Phaedrus. If you want to argue with this line there is already a thread for that purpose. It'd be much better to place your arguments there, and then just link to that thread so this one doesn't end up off-topic.
    I am kindly suggesting you to shut up, Diana, since you refuse to argue for ANY of your claims regarding this issue. I am trying to help Hector find his type, and you are sabotaging and interfering in a very disturbing way with your idiotic and completely false comments, whereas I am telling the truth.

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