my type again (don't laugh, this could be interesting)

[Rocky]

I know that I have said before that I thought I was SiTe in terms of functions, but I'm not so sure about that anymore. Now I'm starting to think more TiSe. The interesting part is that I don't feel judging in the sense that I can be disorganized, have my mind wander when I should be paying attention, and act out more along the lines of what I feel like doing instead of thinking rationally.

So, what I'm saying is that I'm starting to doubt that the socionic model is perfect. And, no, I don't think that the MBTI model is perfect either. Although one thing I find interesting is that both the socionics and MBTI ISTP has a third and fourth functions of Ni and Fe. After learning more about the neurosis and PoLR functions, it would make a lot of sense that those would be Ni and Fe for me.

One other thing that I considered was relationships. I DEFINATELY get along with ENFPs WAY more than I do ENFJs.

By now, it must sound crazy for me to doubt my type... it should be ISTP, right? Yet, I can still see Ti and Se as my stronger functions rather than Si and Te. This would line up more with the MBTI Ti-Se-Ni-Fe ISTP. I have noticed similar problems with other people; they think that they are an INFP (or something else) but come to realized that they fit more Fi-Ne so they have to change.

Wouldn't this hint towards the socionics choice of dominant functions to be wrong?

[Cone]

So what is strong Ti and Se, in your opinion?

[Rocky]

As for my thinking, I perfer to be more informal than formal, I don't like to worry myself with things like facts, I can make things up, I don't care for the conventional way of doing things or follow orders/rules, etc.

Am I wrong, or is the description of an ISTJs appretication for authority Te?

And it's not just me, like I mentioned. Mystic thought he was right-brained and a perceiving type, but swithed over to INTJ because of the TiNe, Darklord was the same with FiNe (even though he came in here thinking P). Something that I found interesting was what he wrote in the body movements thread. He was saying how he was ambidextrious, and that is supposively a right-brained trait. According to the functions/brain chart, both Fi and Ne are right-brained functions. This would make sense that an FiNe like Darklord would think more percieving.



I might be wrong here, but just some thoughts.

[Cone]

Am I wrong, or is the description of an ISTJs appretication for authority Te?

Long-range Se, or Se-, is supposedly reponsible for appreciation of authority. You can find the same occurrence in ESTps, or perhaps even the whole Beta quadra, for that matter.

Se-, as defined by the almighty Russians:

Capture of authority, submission, attack, aggression, attack, the initiative, persistence, insistence, strong-willed pressure from top to down, the statement of the interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, lack of will, mastering.

[implied]

;lkjlkj

[Joy]

I am new to this whole "what's Rocky's type" debate, but why do you think you are an S rather than N?

[Darklord]

You wouldn't be the only j who preferred fun over work, didn't pay attention when needed etc.
I think the extraverted function may be the most important in dealing with the environment. Therefore, an Ixxj would act like an irrational and think like a rational, and vice versa for an Exxj.

[Rocky]

(I use the three letter acronym for a specific socionics type and the four letter acronym ofr everything else.)

You wouldn't be the only j who preferred fun over work, didn't pay attention when needed etc.
I think the extraverted function may be the mopst important in dealing with the environment. Therefore, an Ixxj would act like an irrational and think like a rational, and vice versa for an Exxj.

That's what MBTI says. They say that a TiSe will interact with the world through his Se, therefore be considered perceiving. What I'm saying, Darklord, is that maybe the FiNe type really is the perceiving one.

I've also criticized MBTI as much as anyone so I'm trying to take a step back here.

It is also possible that I'm confusing my ID for my ego.

Long-range Se, or Se-, is supposedly reponsible for appreciation of authority. You can find the same occurrence in ESTps, or perhaps even the whole Beta quadra, for that matter.

Se-, as defined by the almighty Russians:

Capture of authority, submission, attack, aggression, attack, the initiative, persistence, insistence, strong-willed pressure from top to down, the statement of the interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, lack of will, mastering.

Yes, but how do you know that they weren't confusing an ISTJ's Te for Se?

Socionics function: white logic - logic - logic of correlation

objective, outwardly measurable relationships between objects - laws, regulations, rules, categories, quantifiable properties, logic, analysis, belonging, authorship, hierarchy, subordination, objective judgments

Positive(short range):
Reality, detail, detailed study, carefulness, severity, place in hierarchies, laws, decisions, instructions, a choice of the best variant, logic of the organization,

Negative (long range):
abstraction, generality, universality, system, classification, typology, the general laws, objectivity, true, validity, the analysis, logic of a science, criteria.

+Ti
the estimation of the consistency (expediency) of behavior and judgments of concrete person.
comparison, analysis, generalization, the systematization of any objective information, to the easily yielding practical checking: the thorough, concrete and detailed study of cause-effect connections, the construction of inductions (search for objective in the subjective); - the sequential account of its own judgments, inductive conclusions; - the composition of strict laws, standards, rules, instructions for the hierarchic structure of the nearest environment.
the valid distribution of rights and responsibilities, the assignment of equal possibilities for the nearest environment; - the comparison of theories, systems and classifications according to the rule of the selection of the best (actually applied and worker) version: the determination of theoretical prerequisites, the development of structure and regularities, the determination of truth for organizing the practical matters.
tendency toward the "golden section".

Cone, can you explain to me why there are long and short range functions, and why the ISTJ perfers the short range one which could also sound like Te? I'm not ready to throw anything out yet, just curious.

[Darklord]

I was, in fact, also implying that maybe MTBI was on to something here.
However, I can tell you that if I was more "grounded" in the real world (I.e., my S was stronger) I'd definitely be considered a j. I tend to be organized, but I also tend not to recognize much of what needs to be organized.

[Topaz]

My understanding of type from a socionics perspective is that the first function is concrete. Logic to the istj is more implicit , what to do with the logic is the creative function . Istjs are good at making up rules and trying to force or convice others to make it into a law. Ive worked with a number of istjs and usually they were forefront in creating procedures and rules. They are highly affronted if you disregard their authority if they have a position. Even if what you are doing saves time or money or just plain makes more sense they will fight you. It must be cleared by them if they are in authority. They can quickly be guility of micromanaging employees making sure they follow the letter of the law. Istps can be guilty of being lazy. They dont like to do anything unless begged. Istjs are more compliant. They are usually more willing to cooperate and are less moody. Istjs will be on time or early while istps will be just in time or late. Istps are more fluid with life. They are moody and enjoy working with their hands more and dont care much for giving orders. is their primary function but I do notice that sometimes they dress either plain or poorly ( I havent figured that one out yet) where as istjs are much neater and precise about how they dress (boaring :wink: ) is istps creative function. That means they like to toy with facts, mixing and matching to meet the needs of the moment. Istps dont mind showing off their knowledge either.
Finally Istjs can endure a great amount of tedious routine. They love routine and dont mind eating the same foods and going through the same motions for long periods of time. One istj told me "I wish I could just put everything in its place and have a perfect routine and never, ever change it." I hope she was kidding. I dont know any istp that feels that way. I have known a number of istps to walk out on jobs though either because of conflicts with the boss or sheer boardom with the routine.

Topaz

[Rocky]

Sorry, but I wasn't suggesting that I am ISTJ, it was more of questioning the diffrent models than my actual type. See, parts of BOTH of them can make sense, and I can see the functions going either way. For example:

Finally Istjs can endure a great amount of tedious routine. They love routine and dont mind eating the same foods and going through the same motions for long periods of time. One istj told me "I wish I could just put everything in its place and have a perfect routine and never, ever change it." I hope she was kidding. I dont know any istp that feels that way. I have known a number of istps to walk out on jobs though either because of conflicts with the boss or sheer boardom with the routine.

The odd thing is, the ISTJ descriptions sounds more like that of someone who has Si, while the ISTP sounds more Se. Doing things the same as in the past and "never changing" could be Si while the ISTPs need for doing things diffrent doesn't seem to add up with being Si dominant. Do you see some of the problems? I'm just throwung this out there but don't claim to know that answer.

[Topaz]

yes I can see what youre saying. There is a book I have at home that I'll have to dig up that talked about right and left hemispheres of the brain. It was interesting. It had (I think) the istp as right brained but introverted thinking. The recommendations in that book were for IxxPs to use their information gathering function whole heartedly before coming to conclusions. Then they would have a firmer grasp of the facts. For ExxP it was the opposite, to use the secondary function, Fi or Ti to bring closure to their observations.
I'll look it up when I get home from work.

Topaz