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Thread: Serious romantic relationship with an INTp, what went wrong?

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    Default Serious romantic relationship with an INTp, what went wrong?

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    ENTj/INTp's are both "victims" seeking ISFj/ESFp "aggressors". The other types in that aspect are "gentle" and "infantile" or something like that.


    As for the INTp's reaction and dropping off the face of the planet, I have no idea. I do tend to drop off the face of the planet not due to not caring about certain people but just having so many other things going on and not making time. I'm talking about friends though, NOT romantic interests.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Default Re: INTp mishap

    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    I have never had a serious romantic relationship with an INTp.

    Once I came close, but don't know what I did wrong. I'm PRETTY sure he was INTp.

    Anyway, he finally came around, like a year or two after we had last seen each other. Went through all the trouble of calling me up, seeking me out, cleverly was able to get my contact info. We got together. It was all "friendly" - not a clear "date," but the date was implied. We got along beautifully, as always. It was high energy rapport and exchange, just wonderfully in sync. We kissed at the end of our meeting. (He was surprisingly gentle and reticent.)

    Talked on the phone a couple times afterward - his initiative. He was always distracted during our conversations, though, (before AND after our meeting) by what people around him were doing - which seemed rude (weird, is this something INTps would do?)

    Then I made a music mix (including songs I knew he liked) and dropped it off for him where he worked. Never heard from him after that!!! All I could figure was that my interest came on too strong. Can anyone help me make sense of this?

    It's weird because we knew we had unusual chemistry. Others saw it, commented. We were supposedly much "alike." It also seemed we had many common interests, to boot. He even had asked me out a year prior, and was outright flirtatious (but careful/gentle, if that makes sense), but I had to say no because I was seeing someone else (and about to end it, at any rate).

    So what happened?
    My guess is that he didn't want to have to be the one to take all of the initiative and was, regardless of what was said, uncertain about how serious you were. It's not easy for INTps to be the one to initiate contact and make a relationship happen. Chances are you weren't forceful enough.

    Something I wrote about ESFps a while back:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I just realized why like 90% of the friends I've had are ESFp... If I'm going to be friends with someone, I need them not only to keep up their end of the friendship, but mine as well. They have to be fine with always being the one to call me and not taking "no" or "I don't know" for an answer when they're suggesting we do something. I am generally just too lazy and/or uncomfortable to start and maintain friendships. I guess a lot of the stuff I say or do (or don't say or do) could be interpreted as my not being interested in being friends with someone. ESFps are like "Whatever, we haven't done anything in three days. Why don't you want to go anywhere? I want to go *insert activity/place here* and I want you to go with me. Now come on, come pick me up." <3
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    ^ LOL, that's like my wife's ESFp friend exactly. "Hey you should come over this Saturday I'm having a party." Then 5 minutes after the party has started and we haven't left quite yet she calls and asks if we're still coming. We live in different areas now but she's always saying we should fly out and visit her. ESFp's are attention whores.

    A very very good friend of mine I'm pretty sure is an INTp also. We live and work close by but hardly ever chat or get together because both of us are 'teh suck' at taking the initiative. I'm probably a lot better than he is, but I still suck, especially with "people/relationship" types of things (PoLR-Fe kicking in)

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    Default Re: INTp mishap

    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    Talked on the phone a couple times afterward - his initiative. He was always distracted during our conversations, though, (before AND after our meeting) by what people around him were doing - which seemed rude (weird, is this something INTps would do?)
    This is purely speculation, but if he was nervous about the whole thing, it could've been nerves that allowed him to be distracted. I know when I'm nervous for whatever reason I can seem a bit distracted.. it's only a guess though, I don't know for certain.
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    I used to like those "though" women too.

    I read in an MBTI description that INTP's like people who have power.


    Why was he looking around... I don't know for sure, maybe he was a bit nervous and tried to hide that by looking around a bit.

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    Default Re: INTp mishap

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    Keep in mind that this may have had NOTHING to do with socionics or types or any of this crap. I think Socionics is great because it does help to explain a lot, but by no means covers everything, nor is it ever going to be 100% accurate and consistent. That disclaimer aside, I'll "try" to answer as best I can.

    #1: I'm probably a shtty example of an INTp because people think I'm an ENTj half the time, so take this like a grain of salt, but... My wife is the only woman I've ever dated seriously, I knew she was the one for me right away, and that was over 10 years ago. The few before that never really got off the ground because I knew in an Ni sense that things just wouldn't work out and didn't bother. When I met my wife we were both ambitious, had similar goals in life, similar philosophies on how to live, similar politics, and everything just matched. SOLD! But I think if an INTp isn't absolutely 100% sure they could seriously drag their feet or not even bother trying.

    #2: If they're really an INTp then they'll WANT you to take some initiative and be the aggressive one because they're victims, not aggressors. One of the things that attracted me to my wife was the fact that she had the aggressive stance and knew what she wanted in life, and was willing to fight for it. I thought that was hot! She wasn't some passive "whatever you say is best" type of girl. It doesn't mean that an INTp can't take inititative, but they might need some serious prodding. (again, i may be a shtty example of an intp so take this for what it's worth)

    #3: Aggression in a general life rhythm sense and NOT in a kissy/huggy/smoochy sense. You may aggravate the PoLR Fe as an ISFp or ESFj may do and scare them away. Aggressive in an assertive way meaning they're not shy about telling people what they want, nor are they shy about taking matters into their own hands either. INTp's need partners who can voice what they feel strongly because we SUCK at reading Fe. It's the only way we'll know.

    #4: Well INTp's are emotional idiots, so... Maybe the mistake was the "delicate" part. Maybe you should have "visciously" shown interest instead because another thing that INTp's will suck at is reading subtle hints that you're interested. It's the PoLR Fe again, or at least that's how I read it. It always amazes me how an Fe dominant can get such a strong feel for things like this, that I have no ability whatsoever to process.

    #5: Overt expressions might PolR slap their Fe, lol. INTp's know they're emotional dolts and so that could take the form of stringing someone along not wanting to upset them. Personally I wouldn't do that but would instead try to avoid and be polite. I would NOT be asking personal questions and sharing stuff, etc if I wasn't interested. I WAS interested in my wife and she was the first person that I ever really opened up to. I think if an INTp is doing that then they really are interested.

    #6: Games like that are bullsh*t Fe that doesn't process, or at least that's how I read it. My wife and I are both the no games, no BS, no nonsense types.


    Again, this could have absolutely NOTHING to do with type so don't read into it too much. For all you know he could have had the hots for you but can't commit to anything or gets afraid and runs away because of <<insert past highly traumatic and emotionally deranging event here>> haunting him.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Keep in mind that this may have had NOTHING to do with socionics or types or any of this crap. I think Socionics is great because it does help to explain a lot, but by no means covers everything, nor is it ever going to be 100% accurate and consistent. That disclaimer aside, I'll "try" to answer as best I can.

    #1: I'm probably a shtty example of an INTp because people think I'm an ENTj half the time, so take this like a grain of salt, but... My wife is the only woman I've ever dated seriously, I knew she was the one for me right away, and that was over 10 years ago. The few before that never really got off the ground because I knew in an Ni sense that things just wouldn't work out and didn't bother. When I met my wife we were both ambitious, had similar goals in life, similar philosophies on how to live, similar politics, and everything just matched. SOLD! But I think if an INTp isn't absolutely 100% sure they could seriously drag their feet or not even bother trying.

    #2: If they're really an INTp then they'll WANT you to take some initiative and be the aggressive one because they're victims, not aggressors. One of the things that attracted me to my wife was the fact that she had the aggressive stance and knew what she wanted in life, and was willing to fight for it. I thought that was hot! She wasn't some passive "whatever you say is best" type of girl. It doesn't mean that an INTp can't take inititative, but they might need some serious prodding. (again, i may be a shtty example of an intp so take this for what it's worth)

    #3: Aggression in a general life rhythm sense and NOT in a kissy/huggy/smoochy sense. You may aggravate the PoLR Fe as an ISFp or ESFj may do and scare them away. Aggressive in an assertive way meaning they're not shy about telling people what they want, nor are they shy about taking matters into their own hands either. INTp's need partners who can voice what they feel strongly because we SUCK at reading Fe. It's the only way we'll know.

    #4: Well INTp's are emotional idiots, so... Maybe the mistake was the "delicate" part. Maybe you should have "visciously" shown interest instead because another thing that INTp's will suck at is reading subtle hints that you're interested. It's the PoLR Fe again, or at least that's how I read it. It always amazes me how an Fe dominant can get such a strong feel for things like this, that I have no ability whatsoever to process.

    #5: Overt expressions might PolR slap their Fe, lol. INTp's know they're emotional dolts and so that could take the form of stringing someone along not wanting to upset them. Personally I wouldn't do that but would instead try to avoid and be polite. I would NOT be asking personal questions and sharing stuff, etc if I wasn't interested. I WAS interested in my wife and she was the first person that I ever really opened up to. I think if an INTp is doing that then they really are interested.

    #6: Games like that are bullsh*t Fe that doesn't process, or at least that's how I read it. My wife and I are both the no games, no BS, no nonsense types.


    Again, this could have absolutely NOTHING to do with type so don't read into it too much. For all you know he could have had the hots for you but can't commit to anything or gets afraid and runs away because of <<insert past highly traumatic and emotionally deranging event here>> haunting him.
    god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.

    just don't burst forth with emotions or push food on me and i'm fine. i personally would have dug the mixtape.

    re: this

    He was always distracted during our conversations, though, (before AND after our meeting) by what people around him were doing - which seemed rude (weird, is this something INTps would do?)
    sometimes i do this. it usually doesn't mean anything personal. seems like XNTp rudeness, generally.

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    See?

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.
    Why? What was it that makes you think that? I do come across as an ENTj, which can fool people.

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    ahaha i'm going to pm you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.
    Where do you see EJ temperament in what Steve wrote? FWIW, I agree with everything he said.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    Why do you keep switching between thinking your INTp or ENTj? I admit, you don't strike me as clearly being one or the other. I do sense some ENTj-ishness about you, based on the few things you've written, but am not used to reading much ENTj writing.
    Well for the past year or so I've thought pretty firmly that I'm really an INTp, which ironically is what I thought I was before jumping over from MBTI to Socionics. Expat and I discussed this at some depth and he helped me distinguish that, being a firm ENTj himself as a baseline. I relate more to the functional makeup of the INTp, and my internal thought process is more INTp, although it's easy to flip into EJ mode and appear EJ to people. As I sit here typing I still think I'm solidly IP, but due to having a lot going on right now I'm definitely in more of an EJ mode lately. I haven't changed my name back because it's funny, and plus as soon as I'd do that I'd start thinking I really was an ENTj afterall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.
    Where do you see EJ temperament in what Steve wrote? FWIW, I agree with everything he said.
    i agree with everything he said as well! perhaps i don't see EJ temperament as much as a very gamma perspective, and an optimistic one! maybe this is more common in Te-INTps (like Cone?) i'm beginning to think they're much more likely to be mistaken for ENTjs. and i agree that any type can switch from IP to EJ mode quite easily.
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    From reading some of Cone's old posts, I remembered thinking that he and I were definitely on the same wavelength. So yes, I could be a Te-INTp.





    But then again I felt the exact same way reading a lot of Eidos and "Steve" and ENTJ's posts, all of whom were ENTj's. And I felt like I fit right in in the "ENTJ Relationship Conspiracy" thread if that thing is still around. What a great read! Oh and most of my best friends are ENTj's, if that means anything.

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    BTW, I'll just throw this out here since it might be a subtle clue, but....

    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for your input.
    That made me feel a little awkward. One thank you along with a "" would have been more than enough. Overly expressive kissy huggy smoochy ExFj's can give me the same cringe factor, along with my ISFp mother although she's toned that down a lot in recent years. It's extremely difficult to read people exactly over the Internet, but at least I interpreted that as very expressive Fe, which is very awkward for INxp's with PoLR Fe, since we just have no clue on what to do with that stuff or how to respond to it. It makes us nervous because we have little to no ability to respond in kind. It could have been that if you're similarly expressive in person that he might have found that behavior awkward, and hence looking around (or away) a lot in the restaurant.

    What an INTp will find attractive is "aggressive" expressions of and , NOT

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    This is going OT a bit but...

    Functionally with respect to Socionics, INTp just makes more sense. I can't relate to the ENTj hidden agenda Se "to be powerful". Lots of my ENTJ buds are into having lots of toys, gadgets, fast cars, etc, which I just can't relate to. The INTp HA of Fi "to love" makes a lot more sense. on the INTp, a Role Si trying to cover for my lack of Fe makes a whole ton more sense than a Role Fe trying to cover for a PoLR Si. I like to wine and dine my wife often and do things for her that'll make her feel good inside, like a spa gift certificate. That stuff helps to make up for the lack of Fe, although she's not really looking for it anyways. It's just a mindset. I keep 99% of my Ni to myself and don't share it here because it'd fill VOLUMES. I share the Te instead, and then people think I'm an ENTj, not seeing or realizing there's more to me than what I post, which is the boat loads of Ni. And this is the fallacy of trying to type people online based off a couple of posts. I don't spend nearly as much time on here as a lot of others do, and I'm doing other things during that time. There's lots of Ne in me too that has to get its time in. So I'm probably a pretty cruddy candidate for typing online since I dont' spend very much time here, dont' go into the chat room, and people in general just don't know me all that well except for maybe Expat whom I've spoken with about these thigns offline before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Well for the past year or so I've thought pretty firmly that I'm really an INTp, which ironically is what I thought I was before jumping over from MBTI to Socionics. Expat and I discussed this at some depth and he helped me distinguish that, being a firm ENTj himself as a baseline. I relate more to the functional makeup of the INTp, and my internal thought process is more INTp, although it's easy to flip into EJ mode and appear EJ to people. As I sit here typing I still think I'm solidly IP, but due to having a lot going on right now I'm definitely in more of an EJ mode lately. I haven't changed my name back because it's funny, and plus as soon as I'd do that I'd start thinking I really was an ENTj afterall.
    It can be tricky to differentiate ENTjs and INTps online (as well as other mirrors). In the end, it seemed to us that, despite ENTjs going through a lot of INTp "periods" and vice-versa for INTps, Steve feels most "himself" when in IP mode, while the opposite is true for me.

    Another way is to look at ESFjs and ISFps (assuming you type them correctly). Super-ego is generally a far better relationship than conflictor.


    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    god damnit steve you have to still be ENTj or my dad is INTp and i've totally mixed up temperaments, WHICH IS UNLIKELY.
    Where do you see EJ temperament in what Steve wrote? FWIW, I agree with everything he said.
    i agree with everything he said as well! perhaps i don't see EJ temperament as much as a very gamma perspective, and an optimistic one! maybe this is more common in Te-INTps (like Cone?) i'm beginning to think they're much more likely to be mistaken for ENTjs. and i agree that any type can switch from IP to EJ mode quite easily.
    I think it's the Gamma perspective.

    For instance, regarding the precise descriptions of ENTj-ISFj, INTp-ISFj, ENTj-ESFp etc relationships, I think that in the end all Gamma SF - NT relationships have a lot in common.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Music mix things piss INTps off. They piss me off at least it's like cutting up great paintings and putting them on top of eachother with glu. Gross.

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    ah that's right, the dividing line was which state you feel most comfortable in. For me it's IP, and for Expat EJ. I can be an EJ but will feel restless after awhile, just as Expat can be an IP but will feel restless after awhile also, since it's a deviation from your most natural state.

    BTW I tend to only post here when I'm in an EJ type of state to further confuse everybody, and I just noticed this. . It's almost as if it's a 'well hey while I'm getting stuff done I might as well put some posts up that I've been meaning to for awhile at the16types too.' sort of thing. There's been dozens of times here where I've had a fairly lengthy post either half way or almost all of the way together but scrubbed it in the end. That's what happens in IP mode. You get part of the way through something but then have to stop and reconsider since you just thought of another possibility and have to ponder everything some more. This happens quite frequently with me. Probably for every post like this one right here, there's maybe 2-3 more just like it that I scrubbed and never posted because I thought of something else and wasn't sure of things anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elka
    Music mix things piss INTps off. They piss me off at least it's like cutting up great paintings and putting them on top of eachother with glu. Gross.
    I love it when my wife puts together mix CD's for me.

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    @ implied

    BTW, I haven't been able to figure out whether my father is ENTj or INTp also, but now I'm pretty sure he's INTp. I *know* my mom is ISFp for sure, and Super-Ego makes a lot more sense for both me and him than if he was ENTj where it would have been Conflictor. My father isn't a depressive/pessimist either, and he does strongly express when giving advice very frequently and knows exactly how things will play out in any number of situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Probably for every post like this one right here, there's maybe 2-3 more just like it that I scrubbed and never posted because I thought of something else and wasn't sure of things anymore.
    Then it's a clear distinction between us. Usually if I start to write a post I post it, very seldom do I stop halfway or delete it afterwards.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    Again I will say that your ongoing input in this, and other posts, is helpful. Thank you. Sorry for appearing to go over the top. And yes, one's apparent expression online is typically different than interacting with that person in real life.
    Oh don't worry about it, but I thought it might be important so I figured I'd mention it. Just don't do any XOXOXOXOX or "<3" stuff towards me and I'll be ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    OK, what constitutes an aggressive expression of and , as you see it? Just comparing notes. (Not that I'm gonna feebly attempt change myself, if necessary, to win an INTp ... life doesn't work that way.)

    IRL, the several EXFjs I've known "emote" in ways much differently than I. Normally, I can fluidly express my feelings toward ideas, objects or situations ... but not my feelings for and directly toward individuals. Those are hard to articulate*** - I get blocked. So sometimes (if romantically-motivated) I'll try harder - in other ways (e.g., offering other people's music) if in "pursuit". Maybe I should stop trying! I think I will.
    I'm getting a more vibe from you than . INTp's need and don't know what to do with .

    Read the Te views thread (a few threads down on the front page of gamma here) and Expat's post about Fi, and equating Fi with different colored laser beams between people. I about died laughing when I read it, but it was brilliant and very very accurate IMHO. Fe is like fog to an INTp, and INTp's are blind to fog, but they can see laser beams. The "laser beams" (feelings directly towards individuals) are what you just described as having difficultly expressing.

    You sound ESFj-ish to me. My sis-in-law and an uncle are both ESFj and they're some of the nicest people I know, but I find communicating with them difficult because they're expecting me to read their Fe which just doesn't process and then everybody gets confused. Seriously, I cannot tell the difference between an "I want you" look and just a friendly smile. I also have no idea how to flirt and don't know when I'm being flirted with either. Sometimes I'm just being friendly with a store clerk and my wife yells at me because I was flirting, and other times I'm beig flirted with and didn't even know it. My wife gets a good laugh out of it because I'm so retarded like this. She thinks it's cute.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Probably for every post like this one right here, there's maybe 2-3 more just like it that I scrubbed and never posted because I thought of something else and wasn't sure of things anymore.
    Then it's a clear distinction between us. Usually if I start to write a post I post it, very seldom do I stop halfway or delete it afterwards.
    Add that to an IP/EJ test then.

    That would also explain your 4800 posts to my 300 despite the fact that we joined the site just days apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Seriously, I cannot tell the difference between an "I want you" look and just a friendly smile. I also have no idea how to flirt and don't know when I'm being flirted with either. Sometimes I'm just being friendly with a store clerk and my wife yells at me because I was flirting, and other times I'm beig flirted with and didn't even know it. My wife gets a good laugh out of it because I'm so retarded like this. She thinks it's cute.
    I totally relate to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    I often stop halfway, and less often delete. Yep, less often! What this has to do with INTps beats me. .
    I think that the reasons you and Steve do it are different -- I think in his case is typical IP irrationality, he does not care about finishing it. In your case, it's about "blips" of EP impulsiveness? Just a suggestion.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    I often stop halfway, and less often delete. Yep, less often! What this has to do with INTps beats me.

    In fact, I deleted 3/4 of this post, and almost decided not to even hit the submit button, but realized I was doing it again.
    When I get halfway through a post and delete it it's 90% of the time because I'm reconsidering something (an idea or concept) within the post (internal to) that I need to stop and think about some more. I'm not quite sure, so I don't bother posting. The other 10% of the time it's for an external reason like my wife is yelling at me, or I actually need to get some work done at work.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Seriously, I cannot tell the difference between an "I want you" look and just a friendly smile. I also have no idea how to flirt and don't know when I'm being flirted with either. Sometimes I'm just being friendly with a store clerk and my wife yells at me because I was flirting, and other times I'm beig flirted with and didn't even know it. My wife gets a good laugh out of it because I'm so retarded like this. She thinks it's cute.
    I totally relate to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    I often stop halfway, and less often delete. Yep, less often! What this has to do with INTps beats me. .
    I think that the reasons you and Steve do it are different -- I think in his case is typical IP irrationality, he does not care about finishing it. In your case, it's about "blips" of EP impulsiveness? Just a suggestion.
    Negativism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    @ implied

    BTW, I haven't been able to figure out whether my father is ENTj or INTp also, but now I'm pretty sure he's INTp. I *know* my mom is ISFp for sure, and Super-Ego makes a lot more sense for both me and him than if he was ENTj where it would have been Conflictor. My father isn't a depressive/pessimist either, and he does strongly express when giving advice very frequently and knows exactly how things will play out in any number of situations.

    same with my dad, that describes him quite well! lots of advice and gets a little irritable when people completely ignore it. i think i'm focusing too much on the -contradictory/pessimist INTps here rather than the ones because they're so few. i also decided that my parents were superegos since i cannot realistically imagine them working out that well as conflictors. i never really considered ISFp for my mother, though, as she is very EJ-proactive and aggressively IMO.




    @ astralsilky - you do seem over-the-top sometimes. i have about the same impression as thehotelambush -- ENFp would be the only type i could consider for you, beta NF, etc. i could buy alpha SF as well. i also admittedly get a little nervous by the colored fonts/dramatic nature of your posts/emphasized words/thank you thank you thank yous because i get the idea i'm supposed to match this somehow and i'm sort of waiting for you to react in a way that would be more dramatic than i'd be comfortable with? i get the same sense from my mom sometimes (like she's about to "explode" or sort of burst forth with emotions.) and the fact that you thought the INTp was "rude" might bug me a bit since i can be pretty rude.
    6w5 sx
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    oh I missed your edit...

    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    EDIT *** The best and only language I really know for that is direct expressions of physical affection (a hug, kiss, sex) - so long as the other person is on the same page and obviously open and willing.


    So I see Fe and Si, none of which are things anybody in Gamma values or really understands (except sex of course. I think that's pretty universal. )

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    i also admittedly get a little nervous by the colored fonts/dramatic nature of your posts/emphasized words/thank you thank you thank yous because i get the idea i'm supposed to match this somehow and i'm sort of waiting for you to react in a way that would be more dramatic than i'd be comfortable with?
    It's like somebody is speaking to you expecting you to understand them and respond in kind, except they're speaking in a foreign language that you don't know a single word of. Then they stop speaking looking directly into your eyes waiting for you to answer and you're like... "uhh... umm... err..... ??? yeeaaaahhhhhh.. ok ????"

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    @ astralsilky

    You asked for some examples of expressing Fi and Se so here's some things my wife might say.

    "THAT person is so annoying."
    "That person seemed like an ok guy."
    "THAT guy has personal issues and he's insecure!"
    "OMG the floral pattern on this dress is perfect. I have to have it!"
    "That little baby outfit is so cute!!"
    "YOU are so annoying, I can't stand it when you do THIS."
    "That guy is SO WRONG for her. Why is she with him?"
    "OMG, McDreamy on Grey's Anatomy is SO HOT." []
    "These shoes are SO PERFECT."


    She's extreeeeeeeemely opinionated towards specific things in an ethical sense, and she's not shy about telling me precisely what color her "laser beam" is towards an individual or an object. Other types will find someone like my wife to be "bitchy" or overly emotional or the "brooding" type or high maintenance or whatever (read the ENTJ relationship conspiracy thread if it still exists) but I LOVE IT! Unless she's expressive like that I have no way of knowing how she feels towards me or other things since I can't read Fe. I can also tell her about people or things at work and she'll tell me pretty precisely what color their laser beam is towards me and be RIGHT even though she's never even seen them before. Just today she stopped by the office to drop off something with our 6 week old baby, and I asked some of my co-workers if they wanted to come out and meet my wife and see the baby. Three of them did, so today when I get home she'll be telling me precisely what color the laser beams were, hehe.

    Nothing but the most obvious "I want you" look Fe expression from maybe an ISFp would process with me. Anything less than that just doesn't budge the needle off the stop. So Fe leaves me guessing, but Fi processes directly and registers, which is what Gamma NT's need and accept.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    The big scary monster with the red laser beam death rays is pretty much my wife when she's angry. Yes she feels that way about ESTp's too (who have PoLR Fi, go figure).


    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I have been thinking about the Fi/Fe laser/fog thing...

    I think it goes like this...

    Here some Fi is applied to the unsuspecting victim:


    And here is how you perceive it using Fe:


    And this is apparently an ISFj communicating with a couple of ESTps:
    that's great!!

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    Some things my ISFj wife might have said after I told my wife the tale of how an ESTp cheated on his INFj g/f with her best friend who was married and then caused them to get divorced. He also had numerous g/f's behind her back all over the place which when she found out about it devastated her. I was sorta friends with the INFj.

    "He is SO WRONG. How could he do something like that TO HER? God I can't stand people like that! What did SHE do to deserve THAT? GOD it makes me just want to KILL HIM."

    Then I told my wife how the INFj was still with him and couldn't seem to leave him despite how badly he hurt her (sound like an INFj?)

    "WHAT?? What is her problem? How could she NOT leave him? What he did to her was WRONG. Does she have ANY self-esteem or SELF-RESPECT? No woman with ANY self-respect would stay with a guy like THAT."

    So that's and


    This was at my old job and I haven't heard from the INFj since, despite sending a couple of group "hey what's up" emails with her included. I heard back from some others but not her. She's probably still with the guy, and he's probably still cheating on her. I was working with him in another country once on a business trip and he was ALL OVER a few different girls there pretty shamelessly. After the trip (the far east) he said he was going to stop in Thailand for a week to do some snorkeling. YEAH RIGHT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    Probably for every post like this one right here, there's maybe 2-3 more just like it that I scrubbed and never posted because I thought of something else and wasn't sure of things anymore.
    Then it's a clear distinction between us. Usually if I start to write a post I post it, very seldom do I stop halfway or delete it afterwards.
    I often stop halfway, and less often delete. Yep, less often! What this has to do with INTps beats me.


    In fact, I deleted 3/4 of this post, and almost decided not to even hit the submit button, but realized I was doing it again.
    I do that a lot, too. Though, I rarely delete. Actually, more like it is that I read various threads and reply in my head, and if I have enough time and I'm interested enough to put out the effort then I'll actually write down what I'm thinking. I'll often write it out in a word processor, where a great majority of it stays and never gets submitted. This happens elsewhere than the forum. A lot happens in my head that never gets publicly published and at the very least goes through a lot of editing and revision. In my case, I think some of it has to do with a striving for perfection and a sort of hesitation that people won't get my meaning, what I'm actually thinking.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    @ astralsilky

    I made a whole bunch of posts as you were posting that.

    Anyways, take my take on your type like a complete grain of salt because I don't know you, have only seen a few of your posts, and am smart enough to know that you can't type someone just based off of that. The "vibe" I get is just a vibe, nothing less, nothing more. May be accurate, maybe not. :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    "He is SO WRONG. How could he do something like that TO HER? God I can't stand people like that! What did SHE do to deserve THAT? GOD it makes me just want to KILL HIM."

    Then I told my wife how the INFj was still with him and couldn't seem to leave him despite how badly he hurt her (sound like an INFj?)

    "WHAT?? What is her problem? How could she NOT leave him? What he did to her was WRONG. Does she have ANY self-esteem or SELF-RESPECT? No woman with ANY self-respect would stay with a guy like THAT."

    So that's and
    Uhhh...that's a pretty universally standard reaction to that predicament. Nothing overly Fi or Se about it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj
    "He is SO WRONG. How could he do something like that TO HER? God I can't stand people like that! What did SHE do to deserve THAT? GOD it makes me just want to KILL HIM."

    Then I told my wife how the INFj was still with him and couldn't seem to leave him despite how badly he hurt her (sound like an INFj?)

    "WHAT?? What is her problem? How could she NOT leave him? What he did to her was WRONG. Does she have ANY self-esteem or SELF-RESPECT? No woman with ANY self-respect would stay with a guy like THAT."

    So that's and
    Uhhh...that's a pretty universally standard reaction to that predicament. Nothing overly Fi or Se about it.
    If she was yelling that much ("What he did to her was WRONG."), of course there is. Not really based so much on the content, but the delivery.

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    Yes, it's the delivery.

    I'm not sure I agree that's a universal response to that either. The ESTp didn't seem to think or care that they'd done anything wrong and felt more like a "victim" in some respects (perhaps of himself, his own victim.)

    Edit: The other day on a forum I run, somebody that hadn't posted in a year came out of nowhere flaming up a storm and had to be banned after breaking nearly every "posting decency" rule on the forum. There was one group who thought the ban was well justified, but then there was someone who honestly could not see how anything the flamer did was wrong, even after being shown the forum rules which specifically addressed posts like that. Then they tried to blame it on the moderators for "provoking" him, even though he was already flaming before a single moderator had even gotten involved. It may have been a buddy of the guy that got banned, but who knows.

    Anyways, BAD behavior to one person is perfectly reasonable behavior to another, and hence very different responses to the same event.

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    Funny you mention the mix cd. I am guessing that you made him a cd of songs he actually liked and that you took the time to think through what he would like (or perhaps just knew instinctively because you had a strong bond). Actually, I have similar behavior when somebody gives me a gift that means something. I may not disappear altogether but I definitely feel like avoiding the person for awhile. I do this partially because I feel like it would be nice or right to say thank you after realizing the meaning or impact of the gift, but don't know how to do it. I don't have such a problem when I receive something like slipper socks or a shitty mix cd. Actually whenever I have a meaningful exchange with a person, I withdraw for awhile (occasionally permanently). I know my tendency to connect quickly and strongly with a select few, but I know equally well that soon enough the person will find me disappointing or unable to meet their expectations. It may seem like no big deal to simply say "that cd you gave me was really cool" but it seems better to let it go so as not to impose any expectations to give other gifts or to do nice things. There have been times I've received the most awesome gifts. Once it was dirt from ireland because I like dirt. I remember how my heart was racing and I sniffed the dirt and played with it for a long time. Yet I never once brought up that I had even received the package in the mail. It was as if I needed the joy to be private.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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