Virtual Socionic School ?

[machintruc]

I'm a pretty lazy secondary school "at home" student. I have an idea for those who can't learn socionics on an official teaching place. Many would want and can't...

I think of a socionic virtual school. There would be "at home" students to which we'd provide high quality documentation, who can do exercices and tests (and eventually be certified), and ask teachers for help.

Let's do an analogy : I'm student on an organisation called CNED (Centre National d'Enseignement à Distance). When I subscribed to that school, I recieved :

1. Course Manuals of French, English, German, History-Geography, Mathematics, Management of Organisations, Information & Communication, Information & Administration. They contain courses and exercices.

2. Test Manuals of the same subjects ; they total approximately 50 tests. I'm supposed to write those tests and send them via mail or internet (I chose internet) and to receive them back when corrected, with marking.


Let's suppose there is a school called "Remote School of Socionics" :

1. The student connects to the internet, visit the School's website, and subscribes.

2. The student will be able to download or read some sort of socionic documentation (in higher quality than those on socionic websites, though). This documentation will be ordered in easy-to-read modules. They shouldn't take more than 30 minutes each to read. There could be a rich and well-varied documentation with easy-to-read text, tables, pictures, videos, etc.

3. The student can do further, some exercices. They could be corrected automatically by a program or manually by a teacher.

4. When he reaches a sufficient level to do tests, he can choose to do them. They could be less numerous (like only 4-5) but longer to do.


These courses can either be free or be paid with a little fee. (A way to open a marketplace and make money ?)

[aestrivex]

sounds good. go do it.

[Creepy-bg]

and make it free so that people won't have to pay to have good relationships. Making people pay to find duality is gamma taken to the extreame ends of shittiness

[aestrivex]

and make it free so that people won't have to pay to have good relationships. Making people pay to find duality is gamma taken to the extreame ends of shittiness

how about at least making people pay to ensure avoidance of their conflictor and super-ego?

[Creepy-bg]

and make it free so that people won't have to pay to have good relationships. Making people pay to find duality is gamma taken to the extreame ends of shittiness

how about at least making people pay to ensure avoidance of their conflictor and super-ego?

only if I can charge you for pi by the digit

[machintruc]

This is a serious idea. Socionics is a not-well-documented thing, in which we tend to confuse schools of thought. Few western people understand socionics correctly. The most realistic school of thought, IMO, is classical socionics.

[tcaudilllg]

This'll never happen. Not the way things are now. Either that, or it'll be regarded as a quack-house.

Static kineticism is unfit to proscribe the flow of information, or the reasonable exercise of it. Dare to do so and the sword of liberalism will be at your throat.

I would not be so hostile to your idea if I was confident in your fair judgement. Reformers, like UDP, are the ones to set up new institutions, not traditionalists like yourself.

Don't you fools understand, the psychological world at large is extremely hostile to the use of 16 types as a base for the understanding of personality? Do you never wonder why the naysayers of socionics and MBTI both argue about the validity of either? It's not because they are hostile to the ideas either presents -- it is because they fear the perception of personality in such a limited scope.

You want power. Over others. History demonstrates this -- your own words demonstrates this -- and for that just reason we shall oppose you. Make your little cult if you please; it will be boycotted into irrelevance. None of you have the will to make any difference to it.

(besides, MBTI already has such cults and it is unlikely you'll manage to get any money from it, because you don't have will to "take on" MBTI.)

[Rick]

I'm a pretty lazy secondary school "at home" student. I have an idea for those who can't learn socionics on an official teaching place. Many would want and can't...

I think of a socionic virtual school. There would be "at home" students to which we'd provide high quality documentation, who can do exercices and tests (and eventually be certified), and ask teachers for help.

Let's do an analogy : I'm student on an organisation called CNED (Centre National d'Enseignement à Distance). When I subscribed to that school, I recieved :

1. Course Manuals of French, English, German, History-Geography, Mathematics, Management of Organisations, Information & Communication, Information & Administration. They contain courses and exercices.

2. Test Manuals of the same subjects ; they total approximately 50 tests. I'm supposed to write those tests and send them via mail or internet (I chose internet) and to receive them back when corrected, with marking.


Let's suppose there is a school called "Remote School of Socionics" :

1. The student connects to the internet, visit the School's website, and subscribes.

2. The student will be able to download or read some sort of socionic documentation (in higher quality than those on socionic websites, though). This documentation will be ordered in easy-to-read modules. They shouldn't take more than 30 minutes each to read. There could be a rich and well-varied documentation with easy-to-read text, tables, pictures, videos, etc.

3. The student can do further, some exercices. They could be corrected automatically by a program or manually by a teacher.

4. When he reaches a sufficient level to do tests, he can choose to do them. They could be less numerous (like only 4-5) but longer to do.


These courses can either be free or be paid with a little fee. (A way to open a marketplace and make money ?)

I think things like this are available in Russia, but maybe not as sophisticated as you're describing. Sure -- there are schools with lots of training materials, but probably nothing completely online.

[reyn_til_runa]

Cmon now.. you can't have a school that teaches a pseudoscience. Well, I take it back. You could, but what would be the point? That's like having astrology or superstition schools

then what is school? most curricula, regardless of how traditional the corresponding school appears, are later revised as the scope and content of the subject matter changes over time. everything is speculation at first. even the pure sciences we think of today started as seeming wild guesses. the key is that people often study that with which they choose to identify. the goal of teaching is not necessarily to make the field of knowledge identical to the object of study. Although this might be nice, it's impossible. objects of study become subjects as soon as there is potential that they be seen through various interpretative lenses.

[reyn_til_runa]

Science follows the scientific method, and socionics doesn't. That's all I'm saying, really.

I disagree. "Reliable" science emerges as a result of using the scientific method. The method itself is for testing hypotheses and seeing unexplainable phenomena potentially be more objectively rendered. Socionics doesn't seem entirely out of this realm. Depends how you define measurable and observable data, I suppose. But the scientific method has been applied to stranger phenomena.

[reyn_til_runa]

You're free to have your own opinion, but remember: bigger words doesn't equal bigger e-dick.

In other words:
A terribly convoluted explanation of one's will to be considered correct does not necessarily imply that one's digital phallus is omnipresent



(its all in good fun)

there wasn't one big word in that entire post. you mentioned scientific method. do you even know what it is? cause it sounded like you were saying already tested and proven things get plugged into the process. that doesn't make any sense.

my digital phallus is currently flaccid and open to stimulation.

[reyn_til_runa]

Yeah, I know what it is. I was trying to be playful, but now I don't see what good would come from continuing to reply to this topic. Have fun arguing with yourself, douche

exciting to finally be on the female side of things. i shall cleanse my own mental cavity, thank you for the suggestion.

[Blaze]

heh heh digital phallus....stroke me baby....

[machintruc]

Or an hypothetic school can do an even simpler thing :

1. Student subscribes and recieves either a "Socionic Pack" or simply login and pw for a website.

2. No exercices, no tests. One can get certified online or offline by a manually corrected exam.

[olduser]

Science follows the scientific method, and socionics doesn't. That's all I'm saying, really.

I disagree. "Reliable" science emerges as a result of using the scientific method. The method itself is for testing hypotheses and seeing unexplainable phenomena potentially be more objectively rendered. Socionics doesn't seem entirely out of this realm. Depends how you define measurable and observable data, I suppose. But the scientific method has been applied to stranger phenomena.

You can't sneer the word reliable. Yes our concepts are constantly being refined. But saying science is unreliable is disgusting, and you know better. Also, I would never take Socionics serious as objective matter even if it were tested using the scientific method. Even if a study was repeated amongst thousands and thousands of people the sample is too small. There are too many people, societies and niches among them for studies to accurately explain the phenomenon of human personality.

[reyn_til_runa]

You can't sneer the word reliable. Yes our concepts are constantly being refined. But saying science is unreliable is disgusting, and you know better. Also, I would never take Socionics serious as objective matter even if it were tested using the scientific method. Even if a study was repeated amongst thousands and thousands of people the sample is too small. There are too many people, societies and niches among them for studies to accurately explain the phenomenon of human personality.

I never said science is unreliable. just the opposite. it's the lump of hypothetical clay that's unreliable. scientific method is supposed to be the refiner's fire. so, enjios comments made no sense. socionics is not science therefore scientific method shouldn't be applied. ??

[tcaudilllg]

Or an hypothetic school can do an even simpler thing :

1. Student subscribes and recieves either a "Socionic Pack" or simply login and pw for a website.

2. No exercices, no tests. One can get certified online or offline by a manually corrected exam.

That would be acceptable. So long as there is no room for opinion to dictate a person's competancy, then there is no room for abusals of power and therefore no ground for complaint.

Jung tried his hand at a seperate institution of study apart from academia. I view that to have failed, but then again he had no choice because Freud had already done the same. If you are going to be serious about this, you had best try to strike something up with an established professor. This could also give you ground in the west against MBTI, which to my knowledge has no formal place in college cirriculum.

[Rick]

Or an hypothetic school can do an even simpler thing :

1. Student subscribes and recieves either a "Socionic Pack" or simply login and pw for a website.

2. No exercices, no tests. One can get certified online or offline by a manually corrected exam.

The Russian socionics community is beginning to deal with the issue of certification, mostly to protect itself from marginal groups that spoil the community's reputation. Any certificate has to be recognized by the majority, though, or else it is worthless. First you have to have a stable community of professional socionists before you can have a meaningful certification procedure.

[machintruc]

The Russian socionics community is beginning to deal with the issue of certification, mostly to protect itself from marginal groups that spoil the community's reputation. Any certificate has to be recognized by the majority, though, or else it is worthless. First you have to have a stable community of professional socionists before you can have a meaningful certification procedure.

They certainly have to do this, before marginal socionists begin to make certifying schools.

They must also differentiate true socionics from bogus socionics. Where are the boundaries between them ?

I'm a Catholic, so I believe in something which outclasses everything - the Truth.

[tcaudilllg]

That's a good question. Do you lay groundwork to make my task more difficult... or remain ambivalent to it?

What is "marginal" socionics? Would we agree with Rick's definition of "marginal"? ...This is important because on his website Rick paints the socionics "community" in a very conservative light. A science that stagnates is useless; new ideas and interpretations are necessary to keep hope alive....

Furthermore, let's not imagine that the west would ever bow to the Russian heirs of Augusta. Indeed, one of the reasons for MBTI's endurance against socionics may well be that people in the west are still very nervous of Russia's ambitions as a nation. They can count on the U.S.'s attitude changing with the presidency... but what of Putin's paleoconservative clique? My point is, once socionics becomes established in the west the Russian institute will probably marginalize very quickly. Dynamic kinetic forces will seize on socionics study as a means for the reshaping of institutionalized process... and are you prepared for how drastically they will change our world?

If you break my ideosyncratic check on institutionalized study of the exertion theory... you do not begin to understand the depth of forces you will unleash. Dynamic kineticism will exhaust the organizational potential of classical socionics very quickly... and they will begin looking for the next step....

Perhaps what I'm really saying is, are you now ready for the strongest challenge yet to the authority of organized religion? Jesus had a type, and the nature of his "miracles" is a little less difficult to fathom when seen through the lense of ISTp exertion.... You will not defend your institutions by trying to increase awareness of socionics; you will overthrow them for good.

On the other hand, Gulenko's subtype theory would seem to offer benefits to priniciple of organizational harmony... although Big Five already accounts for this in much more detail, doesn't it?

[aestrivex]

I'm a Catholic, so I believe in something which outclasses everything - the Truth.

[machintruc]

What is "marginal" socionics? Would we agree with Rick's definition of "marginal"? ...This is important because on his website Rick paints the socionics "community" in a very conservative light. A science that stagnates is useless; new ideas and interpretations are necessary to keep hope alive....

You'll understand if you read Rick's article ( http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/0...nics-cult.html ). We all tend to do this.

Conservativeness is a pretty much good thing. If there are not people which resist to change, the change will go too fast and society's change will become somewhat chaotic.

Rick is a IEE, which is Result and Negativist. According to Gulenko, Process types contributes to society's change, and Result types contributes to society's resistance. (Generally I don't really trust Gulenko)

Society has two main processes : Change and Resistance. Ideally, there should be slightly more Change than Resistance. If there is too much Change, society can become chaotic because of uncontrolled Change. If there is too much Resistance, society won't evolve, and won't adapt itself to its needs.

This analysis can illustrate socionics community.

[tcaudilllg]

So you think it'll stay in the socionics community?

I'm worried about what will happen over here in the States, personally. We've got total religious nuts over here who try to preach creationism in our schools. Socionics has typed Jesus and Muhammed both. I can tell you that many INFjs feel sympathy with Jesus (I've asked them about it), but I can also tell you that theoconservatives... well, it's iffy.

I'm worried about the Bush people, you see. I'm worried about the people who say the Big Bang is evidence for intelligent design. (that's not to say I'm atheistic, but I believe in the rule of information over some autocratic "superbeing" who destroys those who do not bow to his will.)

[machintruc]

So you think it'll stay in the socionics community?

I'm worried about what will happen over here in the States, personally. We've got total religious nuts over here who try to preach creationism in our schools. Socionics has typed Jesus and Muhammed both. I can tell you that many INFjs feel sympathy with Jesus (I've asked them about it), but I can also tell you that theoconservatives... well, it's iffy.

I'm worried about the Bush people, you see. I count my blessings Putin has not-- and I'll leave the rest of that statement to your imagination....

Jesus doesn't have a type, because having a type means having more developed psychological aspects than others, which is an imperfection (having intellectual aspects less developed and differentiated than others). Jesus is God, and God is perfect. Anyone, whatever his type, can love Jesus.

I attend a Catholic associaction in which you can find people of all types, from the peaceful and sociable SEI, to the highly scientific and perceptive LIE (although this association has a clear preference for introtimness and negativism).

People of all types can like Jesus, so He can't have a type. Catholics are not all EII's, that's a stereotype.

If you're REALLY logical and scientific, you can discover that NOTHING is more logical than the existance of God.

If God didn't exist, you couldn't even say that God doesn't exist, because you wouldn't exist yourself, dude.

[tcaudilllg]

Catholics are not all EII's, that's a stereotype.

Of course it is.

...Linguistic analysis of the Gospel reveals Jesus' function order as , followed by , then , etc.. I've tested it on several consecutive chapters of one of the books. (we can talk about this more if you like) ...I might as well further mention that in theory, metabolism with exertion can heal depending on choice of feeling. With the aid of the transcendental function it is conceivable that force could project healing into another person.

I was saying I don't believe God is a person with human traits, as He is depicted in the Old Testament. In particular, Jesus' description sounds like personal knowledge: you "know" the Father, or you don't. I think of God as consciousness itself: it wants to grow wider and to evolve itself into ever higher forms of cognition. In other words, I think of God as . I agree with the "Conversations with God" school that we constitute His self perception. By use of the transcendental functions we learn to orient the world toward greater consciousness. Satan is at the other extreme, the pathological range of personality which attempts to guide the world back into oblivion by using the transcendental functions in reverse.

[machintruc]

Catholics are not all EII's, that's a stereotype.

Of course it is.

...Linguistic analysis of the Gospel reveals Jesus' function order as , followed by , then , etc.. I've tested it on several consecutive chapters of one of the books. (we can talk about this more if you like) ...I might as well further mention that in theory, metabolism with exertion can heal depending on choice of feeling. With the aid of the transcendental function it is conceivable that force could project healing into another person.

Because you wanted to see more the stereotypical aspect than others. People only see what they want because they tend to be egocentric.

[leckysupport]

A virtual school right now in English is probably a bad idea, most of us aren't really good enough to teach anyone anything about socionics. Maybe a organisation which popularises the subject, gets books published, collects donations to grant to socionist wanted to do experiments etc. would be more useful for now. Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

[tcaudilllg]

Now machinetruc you're drifting into non-objectivity here. No, I didn't look to the stereotypical interpretation. You seem to want to engage this debate formally so I'll resume it in another thread.

Here's an interesting question: should society forbid non-dual marriages? I think if socionics were popularized there could be movement in that direction.

[aestrivex]

Here's an interesting question: should society forbid non-dual marriages? I think if socionics were popularized there could be movement in that direction.

that would be totally insane for a myriad of reasons.

[machintruc]

A virtual school right now in English is probably a bad idea, most of us aren't really good enough to teach anyone anything about socionics. Maybe a organisation which popularises the subject, gets books published, collects donations to grant to socionist wanted to do experiments etc. would be more useful for now. Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

One can build an organisation on the USA for this purpose, or convince Myers-Briggs people to switch to Socionics. Rick's USA seminar is a pretty good initiative.

[machintruc]

Here's an interesting question: should society forbid non-dual marriages? I think if socionics were popularized there could be movement in that direction.

My parents are an illusionary pair (ESI-EIE) and they really get along each other...

[tcaudilllg]

What is on the mind of (young) liberals right now, I can tell you, is "what makes someone 'the one'"? Is it one's perfect dual who shares a like interest, a common destiny? Or is it something else?

Questions like that make us loose sleep at night. Transcendence of the 5th function probably bequeaths the answer... (Jung said so) but what should we do in the meantime?

[aestrivex]

What is on the mind of (young) liberals right now, I can tell you, is "what makes someone 'the one'"? Is it one's perfect dual who shares a like interest, a common destiny? Or is it something else?

Questions like that make us loose sleep at night. Transcendence of the 5th function probably bequeaths the answer... (Jung said so) but what should we do in the meantime?

you have got to be fucking kidding me.

[machintruc]

Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

So what should we do ?

[UDP]

A virtual school right now in English is probably a bad idea, most of us aren't really good enough to teach anyone anything about socionics. Maybe a organisation which popularises the subject, gets books published, collects donations to grant to socionist wanted to do experiments etc. would be more useful for now. Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

One can build an organisation on the USA for this purpose, or convince Myers-Briggs people to switch to Socionics. Rick's USA seminar is a pretty good initiative.

I have no idea what to suggest for this topic, but I am very glad to see that we are attempting to discuss it. Introducing socionics may take time, but I am interested in it. Keep us posted.

[machintruc]

A virtual school right now in English is probably a bad idea, most of us aren't really good enough to teach anyone anything about socionics. Maybe a organisation which popularises the subject, gets books published, collects donations to grant to socionist wanted to do experiments etc. would be more useful for now. Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

One can build an organisation on the USA for this purpose, or convince Myers-Briggs people to switch to Socionics. Rick's USA seminar is a pretty good initiative.

I have no idea what to suggest for this topic, but I am very glad to see that we are attempting to discuss it. Introducing socionics may take time, but I am interested in it. Keep us posted.

Making more websites about socionics in english language ? At this time only one (as far a I know) is teaching true socionics : Rick's.

[leckysupport]

Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

So what should we do ?

IMO we should wait to see if there's interest with the groupings of individuals who could start the organisation, then start it if there is interest.

[machintruc]

Then maybe we can think about schools, but for now understanding what we're talking about is what we should be doing now (if we should be doing anything).

So what should we do ?

IMO we should wait to see if there's interest with the groupings of individuals who could start the organisation, then start it if there is interest.

First it would be better to build more english-speaking websites on classical socionics, at least for an "expanding" effect. There is only one in the web and it's Rick's. Lytov's website is Gulenko-influenced, and Ganin's is MBTT-influenced.

[machintruc]

If there is such school one day, I would be pleased to correct tests.

[science as magic]

i think you'd have more fun/success creating a porn site that kept track of the physical features you preferred and suggested new pics/links based on those observed preferences. you could correlate it to socionics by means of vi. you could even assign types to different body parts and determine subtype/crosstype