View Poll Results: Marilyn Monroe's type?

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  • ILE

    0 0%
  • SEI

    1 5.26%
  • ESE

    0 0%
  • LII

    0 0%
  • SLE

    1 5.26%
  • IEI

    8 42.11%
  • EIE

    0 0%
  • LSI

    0 0%
  • LIE

    0 0%
  • ESI

    2 10.53%
  • SEE

    2 10.53%
  • ILI

    0 0%
  • LSE

    0 0%
  • EII

    2 10.53%
  • IEE

    3 15.79%
  • SLI

    0 0%
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Thread: Marilyn Monroe

  1. #1
    eunice's Avatar
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    Default Marilyn Monroe

    Type?



     




















    quotes:

    The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was....

    I've been on a calendar, but never on time.

    I restore myself when I'm alone. A career is born in public — talent in privacy.

    Hollywood's a place where they'll pay you a thousand dollars for a kiss, and fifty cents for your soul. I know, because I turned down the first offer often enough and held out for the fifty cents.

    A career is wonderful, but you can't curl up with it on a cold night.

    I think that when you are famous every weakness is exaggerated. … Goethe said, "Talent is developed in privacy," you know? And it's really true. … Creativity has got to start with humanity and when you're a human being, you feel, you suffer. You're gay, you're sick, you're nervous or whatever.

    Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.

    Give a girl the right pair of shoes and she'll conquer the world.

    First, I'm trying to prove to myself that I'm a person. Then maybe I'll convince myself that I'm an actress.

    When you're famous you kind of run into human nature in a raw kind of way. It stirs up envy, fame does. People you run into feel that, well, who does she think she is, Marilyn Monroe? They feel fame gives them some kind of privilege to walk up to you and say anything to you, of any kind of nature — and it won't hurt your feelings — like it's happening to your clothes not you.

    Success makes so many people hate you. I wish it wasn't that way. It would be wonderful to enjoy success without seeing envy in the eyes of those around you.

    People had a habit of looking at me as if I were some kind of mirror instead of a person. They didn't see me, they saw their own lewd thoughts, then they white-masked themselves by calling me the lewd one. ... When it comes down to it. I let people think what they want. And if they care enough to bother with what I do, I already know I'm better than them.

    I'm a failure as a woman. My men expect so much of me, because of the image they've made of me — and that I've made of myself — as a sex symbol. They expect bells to ring and whistles to whistle, but my anatomy is the same as any other woman's and I can't live up to it.

    Experts on romance say for a happy marriage there has to be more than a passionate love. For a lasting union, they insist, there must be a genuine liking for each other. Which, in my book, is a good definition for friendship.







    Last edited by silke; 09-15-2017 at 04:24 AM. Reason: updated links

  2. #2
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    I think she was EII, however, Rick has typed her as IEI.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think she was EII, however, Rick has typed her as IEI.
    To me her flowing, languid speech and relaxed (almost lifeless) poses are crying out for .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think she was EII, however, Rick has typed her as IEI.
    To me her flowing, languid speech and relaxed (almost lifeless) poses are crying out for .
    I couldn't agree more. But what do those exerted actions have to do with information metabolism?

    The INFp-ESFp was Audry Hepburn... so Marylin must be ESFp-INFp.

    And true to form, I encountered a person of that type just a few nights ago. The same relaxed pose, the softly squinting eyes, the flowing hair... and extremely outgoing and sociable. We were at a "field trip" to a bar for the conduction of an ethnography, and she seemed to know everybody. Very flamboyant. Yet when I tried to talk politics, she grew upset as soon as I invoked the concept of context lines. (most ESFPs do...) INTjs are naturally aware of these... conflictor vibes.

    And beyond that, Marylin Monroe was a total slut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    The other people in the clip were far more interesting. She seems rather blank, boring. Not much for personality.
    I thought that guy was the most boring in the clip. I actually find her witty and intelligent instead. Initially, I thought she was EII as well. I kind of see her been calm and serious rather than merry, and she seemed to have an infantile attitude. I like the way she talks, very calm and feminine.

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    IEI. She looks airy and somewhat sexy.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I actually find her witty and intelligent instead. Initially, I thought she was EII as well. I kind of see her been calm and serious rather than merry, and she seemed to have an infantile attitude. I like the way she talks, very calm and feminine.
    Yes this is close to my impression -- but since so many people are seeing IEI, I will review the evidence some time.

    In his site, Rick has cited Marlon Brando's (an SLE) friendship with her. In his memoirs, Brando refers to it as an "affair" and he doesn't get into any detail about the relationship or her, although he did describe in some detail how they met. At a party, she was alone, playing the piano, away from the noise, and he hit on her. Not sure if that's enough evidence for any kind of Socionics relationship. The same goes for her affairs with the Kennedy brothers. Arthur Miller's and JoeDiMaggio's types would provide better information.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    The INFp-ESFp was Audry Hepburn... so Marylin must be ESFp-INFp.
    Interesting...I thought ESFp, but when I saw the VI on Rick's site and the interview in his link, I thought INFp is likely. However, I agree with Expat that having a friendship or acquaintance with someone who might have been ESTp is very weak, circumstantial evidence at best. But now I see that INFp really is likely.

    Other Socionics sites tend to think she was an SF type...and that was always my impression because her airy quality is similar to that of people who tend to distract thought away from ideas and towards the present situation. But this may be Ni pointing towards Se.

    Anyhow, Tcaud, can you explain the difference between INFp-ESFp and ESFp-INFp and how one would tell the difference? I thought perhaps that the first type indicates the structure of one's approach, and the second the content space which one inhabits, but I'm not sure here.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    I actually find her witty and intelligent instead. Initially, I thought she was EII as well. I kind of see her been calm and serious rather than merry, and she seemed to have an infantile attitude. I like the way she talks, very calm and feminine.
    Yes this is close to my impression -- but since so many people are seeing IEI, I will review the evidence some time.

    In his site, Rick has cited Marlon Brando's (an SLE) friendship with her. In his memoirs, Brando refers to it as an "affair" and he doesn't get into any detail about the relationship or her, although he did describe in some detail how they met. At a party, she was alone, playing the piano, away from the noise, and he hit on her. Not sure if that's enough evidence for any kind of Socionics relationship. The same goes for her affairs with the Kennedy brothers. Arthur Miller's and JoeDiMaggio's types would provide better information.
    That's not the "friendship" I was referring to at all. They exchanged numerous letters and appear to have been emotionally close. Here are snippets:

    "A Marilyn Monroe compelling letter to Lee Strasberg about setting up an independent production company with Marlon Brando
    A two-page typed letter that appears to be a copy of an original that Monroe sent to her Method acting coach, Lee Strasbeg. Dated "December 19, 1961," the letter is an illuminating account of plans that Monroe had with Marlon Brando to start their own production company, with the intent that Strasberg would be their consultant."

    "Here's his typed letter to Marilyn Monroe advising her to experience her depression as an opportunity for personal growth:

    Be glad for it and don't be afraid of being afraid. It can only help. Relax and enjoy it."

    "An amazing cache of letters (and one photograph) from Marilyn Monroe - being sold. These letters (many of them) have never before been seen by the public. Her scrawling note to Marlon Brando is very moving to me. They were good friends. "

    " EIGHT months before her death, a desperate Marilyn Monroe asked Marlon Brando to help save her movie career and beat her growing depression, a never-before-seen letter reveals. "Please phone me as soon as possible. Time is of the essence," Monroe wrote to Brando, her occasional lover, during a period when she was feuding with her studio over control of scripts and characters. "

  10. #10
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    @Rick: ok, fair enough
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I did a quick search for typings in Russian and found mostly EII and IEI. IEI is a very old typing. I thought it came from Augusta.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I loooove Marilyn Monroe and the sweet way she talks/acts. I've always read her being typed as ESFp and I've never agreed with that, but I can see why they would say so.. IEI is a much better typing for her.

    I'm curious about that whole ESFp-INFp exertion stuff.


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    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    I know this is an old thread, but here's some pics of Monroe back when she was still Norma Jean - before she had her teeth straightened, a nose job, her hairline raised, and went blonde:











    I'm not sure how much her personality she changed along with her image, but I am starting to see an INFp here.

    ETA one more, because I like this one:
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    she looks more isfp in the pics baby posted.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    ISFp is a possibility. She looks kind of extroverted in those pics, though. Anyway, I find myself drawn and attracted to her more in the old pics than her post-Hollywoodization ones.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

  16. #16
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Aww, I just adore her.


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    She's more beautiful pre-plastic surgery imo.

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    She looks a lot like Britney Spears in her pre-op pictures.
    Reason is a whore.

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    I wasn't aware she had work done.

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    IEI or SEI - Introverted and irrational for sure.

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    interesting to see her typed as IEI. people always said she was ESFp or ISFj.

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    Default Young Marilyn Monroe

    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    That chick could handle a propeller like a pro?
    "[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan

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    Thank God for hair bleach . . .

    Looks like a girl I could date.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    I happen to think she looks better here. She had beautiful natural hair. That bleach obviously killed it. Also: she had plastic surgery on her nose and it looked too thin.
    "[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan

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  26. #26
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    She also had her overbite fixed and her hairline plucked.

    She was still beautiful before all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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    who plucks their hairline? the more hair the merrier. right?

    sounds painful.

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    Rita Hayworth was whisked off to be made to look 'less latina' before her big debut, which included amongst others plucking her hairline into an artificial widow's peak iirc.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Same type as the old Marilyn Monroe, only living.

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    Not marilyn specific, but discussion on stars' before and afters.
    http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showt...fore-and-After
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Not marilyn specific, but discussion on stars' before and afters.
    http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showt...fore-and-After
    I find this unbelievably sad.

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    ISFp - after looking at the pictures of young Marilyn it was clear that the airy/dreamy vibe was more of an image that she has put up for her acting career and that this wasn't the real her. In earlier photos she seems very settled and set with what she's doing, and almost SLI/LSI-sensor-like. From quotes I could tell that her emotional reactions are too situation specific for a Ni ego; she feels rather short-sighted tbh. Image triad is very likely, 3w4 or 4w3.


    Edit: SEI e4 (extended typing: Fe-SEI so/sp 4w3)
    Last edited by silke; 09-15-2017 at 04:18 AM.

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    I have no very informed opinion except that she seems to be an introvert and VIs SEI in the younger pictures.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    IEI and SEI are look alikes but there are many reasons I don't think she's SEI. Her desire for success and fame made her modify herself significantly to achieve a ideal look. She was always searching for a fantasy.

    She called her first husband daddy, I don't think she's a caregiver, she's someone who was looking for protection in life and found it in the arms of paternalistic, aggressive men, sometimes her conflictor imo. Joe DiMaggio being one of them.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    SEE

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    ESI imo

  37. #37

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    I have probably read almost every biography on her. My bookshelves are full of books and just picking one up now I can say SLE seems to be less likely.

    “I restore myself when I'm alone” – Marilyn Monroe


    SHORT BIOGRAPHY
    Born Norma Jeane Baker on June 1, 1926 in Los Angeles, Marilyn Monroe became one of the most celebrated film personalities of her time. Though much has been made of Marilyn’s personal history, her life was the classic show-business tragedy. Stardom seemed a burden; being an international sex goddess, even more so.


    In 1946 she decided to change her name to Marilyn Monroe. Her career was launched with a role in All about Eve in 1950. In 1953 she married the baseball icon Joe DiMaggio. In 1956, after her third marriage to playwright Arthur Miller, Monroe struggled to understand theories of acting and wanted to star in the classics. When this effort proved fruitless, she became so difficult to work with that she was virtually unemployable. She was recklessly spoiled and unsure and was barely able to complete even the briefest scene between breakdowns.


    Yet in the handful of comedies in which she starred her ebullience and freshness transcend her limitations: Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953), How to Marry a Millionaire (1953), The Seven Year Itch (1955), The Prince and the Showgirl (1957), and Some Like It Hot (1959). She also performed competently in two dramatic roles, Bus Stop (1956) and The Misfits (1961). Monroe longed to be taken seriously as an artist but her work was neither original nor very interesting. Among the many books written about her, Norman Mailer's biography, Marilyn (1973), made headlines in its own right. Miller's play After the Fall (1964) is the playwright's veiled interpretation of their tense, unhappy marriage.


    She died on August 5, 1962 from an overdose of sleeping pills, possibly a suicide, at a young age of 36.


    -Pitara.com
    - See more at: http://lifeofmarilynmquotes.tumblr.c....llNMmcbG.dpuf


    I voted IEI but could have gone with EIE if not for a couple of things I read.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-23-2014 at 06:25 PM.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    I went to a lecture last year about the changes in the public image of Monroe, and how these compare to the image that cultural scientists have of her. There was a lot of facade with Monroe, but imho Norma Jean Baker was IEE. The image of Monroe off-stage is also very IEE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Marilyn is the prototypical sx 6w7 -> feeling the need to be beautiful and attractive as a matter of safety precaution to not be harmed and get protection from powerful men. She is not sx last in any shape or form.

    As far as her type, I was convinced she was IEI or at least SEI before, but now I'm thinking she might have been IEE-Fi or EII. She looked like she was looking for a father figure and was calling her husband Daddy.

    I was also thinking if Lana del Ray, which I also had as IEI, might be her identical (IEE-Fi maybe)? Not sure on this one though, but they seem similar to me. And Lana refers to many men as Daddy also, not to mention her creepy use of old guys in her videos and refering to herself as Lolita.

    I've been out on that open road
    You can be my full time daddy,
    White and gold
    And Lana was supposedly a runaway teenager who seeked safety in the arms of older men. Idk, it all seems infantile to me. But maybe a victim cleverly giving the caregiver half his child



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