Male IEIs/INFps: what are they like? Your experiences.

[thePirate]

It would be horrible if you used socionics to justify your relationship, more so than anything because you are wrong about your type; its actually incredibly obvious from your posting history and other little tidbits. I'm not even saying this because of my dislike for you, I'm saying this because you are making a terrible, terrible mistake based off a system you don't even fully grasp; its obvious because what you describe doesn't even sound like duality, you have a magical bullshit conception of a fairyland your delusions are creating.

[Joy]

Okay, here's the thing with that particular IEI. This isn't really a question of whether I'm going to get romantically involved with him. I don't really care whether that ever happens or not. That's just waaaaaay too much for me to consider because the whole idea is too far off and blurry and complicated. I have no friggin clue about any of that shit. Whatever happens, happens. As long as we're friends, no complaints.This is a question of whether I should let him move in with e. He doesn't have a job, but living with me he'd have access to jobs he doesn't where he's living now, and he's motivated to get one.

The general question about IEI's and who I'm romantically attracted to is related to the same issues I mentioned in my earlier posts, and they're the same questions that are at the root of my concerns about letting this guy move in with me.

[07490]

BulletsAndDoves... I don't find society's norm attractive. But there's shit in my life that I need to straighten out, and I'm trying to sort out how the fact that I don't really care about a guy's finances/job ties in. And from a practical standpoint, I can't afford a guy who's not self-sustaining right now. But on the other hand, I'm a much more productive and successful person when I'm spending a lot of time around an IEI. So maybe if I was with an IEI... Bleh. Like I said, lots of internal conflict here.

I agree with joy's quote above.

It's not that if you're practical, you are following social norm. So we can't say you are rejecting society because you have a satisfying job, the individual weights in for themselves and consider what is good for the overall quality of their life. Stereotype like that, for example, having a good 9-5 job means you are an upper class and is socially normal or the other way around like if you are on the internet all day means you are worthless is stupid. your mind would get owe by these false ideology, like you don't want to be seen being normal, so in turns you deliberately go against social norms, but then that is like saying that if you don't want to be influenced by the society, you aren't exactly free by a belief and that can also control you the same way as following everyone else, so both ways should not be followed at an extreme.

[squark]

This is a question of whether I should let him move in with e. He doesn't have a job, but living with me he'd have access to jobs he doesn't where he's living now, and he's motivated to get one.

Do whatever you want, but don't expect anyone to be other than what they are. If he's a lazy bum and a druggie (not type related,) that's not going to change, whether he lives with you or not. Can you deal with that? If you can't, don't let him move in. Especially if you can't afford to support him.

[JuJu]

Do whatever you want, but don't expect anyone to be other than what they are. If he's a lazy bum and a druggie (not type related,) that's not going to change, whether he lives with you or not. Can you deal with that? If you can't, don't let him move in. Especially if you can't afford to support him.

agreed, 100%

[Joy]

He's not a lazy bum... he actively searches for jobs and prefers to have one. He's been bad about keeping them though because he hasn't held them as a priority over socializing with his druggie friends (and because he makes... ditzy... mistakes). What he wants is to hold down a job so he can build a better work history. And to go to school. He talks a lot about how he doesn't want to keep living the way he's been living, about positive changes he wants to make. And like I said, the more time we spend together, the harder he works and the more he believes he can do it. I motivate him without even trying to. idk, maybe I'm just feeling wary because of bad experiences. I'm not really giving him a chance (or even believing in him the way I used to) because I'm more focused on how much it would suck if things went wrong.

[Sam Rockwell]

This is exactly what I was looking for and needed to hear. There's an IEI that I'm considering getting involved with, but I have reservations because he's not at a place in his life where he could offer me the kinds of things that society thinks men should, the stuff most women look for. When we spend a lot of time together he starts to believe he can do it and works towards it. I'm conflicted because on one hand, I've never been one to care much about society's expectations. On the other... look where it's gotten me. While I like the idea of supporting a starving artist so he can do his art thing, whatever that happens to be, and would be okay with it as long as he was contributing in other ways, I'm not sure how practical or wise that really is. And this whole thing... I don't know if I'm just using Socionics to justify codependent patterns or if there's truly nothing unhealthy about being the reason a guy is willing and able to work towards his goals, not to mention the whole "house wife" thing. This magical connection he and I have... the way neither of us seems to be centered or energized or happy if we're not seeing eachother enough... is it healthy?Should we both be happy and centered on our own, or is it okay for us to only really be that way when we're together? How much do/should duals really need each other? And am I just fooling myself in thinking that there wouldn't be long term isrelated to each of our problems that seem to start to go away when we spend a lot of time around each other? Maybe I need to work on being centered on my own and wait to get involved with anyone until I find someone who is already a contributing member of society who is happy and healthy on his own. Ugh, but I do have an issue with that whole "society's expectations" thing. Yes, I have poor self-awareness. Yes, I'm wondering if I just need better friends, a healthy social network. Anyways, there's no need for an immediate answer, so I guess I'll just see how things play out, be his friend, and work on getting on top of my OWN shit in the meantime. (:

This reminds me of that married couple from Juno. You know, the workaholic woman and the musician who was waiting for his big break? She left a room for all of his stuff, and the rest of the house looked suburbanite.

Seriously though, that'd be a bad situation to let yourself in, imho (taking care of a starving artist who can't really offer much else). I'm not sure why, I just wouldn't like the idea. For instance, I've got an older brother who's well out of his teen years, but still in his teen mode. He's trying to make it big as a hip hop artist, and he's met some mentionable names over the past several years doing what he does. The problem is that he's not entirely benefitting from it financially, and he's often accused by out father of using him for himself. (He's ESFp by the way, not that all ESFp's are like that). I don't know, be friends with him. You could influence him to get his stuff together in little ways without his affairs affecting your own, you know?

[Creepy-male]

hey look joy responded, I kind of feel like saying something un-necessarily mean or scathing, just because I'm bored and want to participate in some forum drama.... but I'm all out of ideas on what the proper technique is here.

[FDG]

Are they ALL wanderer's/druggies or already under someone else's thumb? Seriously. I've got 5 male IEI friends, and none of them have their shit together. Does such a thing as an IEI who's on top of his life without a significant other even exist???

No. However, given your white trash trailer environment, you're bound to meet such kind of mates in an exclusive fashion. You are never going to find another type of person which will be willing to share a life with you, Joy. You're disgusting.

[jessica129]

Damn

[redbaron]

mean and unnecessary.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Yea I dunno, when its playful reaction testing then sure its a little annoying but endearing, but when its all creepy like the movie saw and your toying with people in a sociopathic way then its a bit excessive.

Never saw Saw, so I can't comment there. But yeah, there's a line not to cross with that sort of thing.

[Joy]

The hate shit doesn't bother me, and nothing any of them says ever affects me. The hate is their problem, not mine. And this is the only place anyone ever attacks me. I don't have problems with people I interact with irl. So whatever. I know this place has a really toxic environment, which is one of the reasons I don't come around much anymore. (The primary reason is that I just don't spend much time online anymore though.)

Anyways, I just remembered the solution, the thing that always ends up being the solution: Quit worrying and just have fun. If something doesn't feel quite right, don't do it. Feeling unsettled means it's not time to act yet, and if I think about it too much or try to figure out why, it'll just make me crazy.

So the bottom line is that I just shouldn't get involved with anyone right now. And my friend and I need to talk about some shit before/if I let him move in.

[redbaron]

to me, it's not just about not making people feel bad. I know it doesn't bother you. but it's like spewing negativity as sport or something. bothers me.

[silverchris9]

Anyways, I just remembered the solution, the thing that always ends up being the solution: Quit worrying and just have fun. If something doesn't feel quite right, don't do it. Feeling unsettled means it's not time to act yet, and if I think about it too much or try to figure out why, it'll just make me crazy.

So the bottom line is that I just shouldn't get involved with anyone right now. And my friend and I need to talk about some shit before/if I let him move in.

Well... since you said what I said last time was helpful... um, you're probably right about needing to talk to your friend before you let him move in, but that "the solution is to just HAVE FUN!!!" stuff is almost certainly wrong... this is a case in which thinking would probably be of assistance to you. Like I said, maybe figure out why you like to be needed by people who tend to have trouble supporting themselves, and then... umm... find a healthier way of dealing with that? So, you like to actualize people. That's awesome. That's an important role in life/society/whatever. And you have this friend that you feel sad when you're not around. Also awesome, although I'd think long and hard to make sure that you actually would feel that way about this person regardless of socionics and not because of it. But how does that all relate to your goals and stuff. And also, what do you need to do with yourself to maybe find a guy (even an IEI) who at least has his shit semi-together (I mean, as much as any human being has their shit together), like maybe hang out with different people, find a different circle to run with, I dunno. And then make sure that the people you're helping are actually being helped by you, and that you're not luring one another into a codependent "I like being a leech/I like being leeched on" relationship, and learn to recognize when it's headed in that direction and, um, stop it.

My two cents.

[Creepy-male]

to me, it's not just about not making people feel bad. I know it doesn't bother you. but it's like spewing negativity as sport or something. bothers me.

Seriously spewing negativity as sport? You've never had a rap battle before? Seems like it would be fun...

What about spewing compliments as a sport, and you can try to one up the person? That was nice, but you really shouldn't have your so kind, which is why I should be thanking you instead, really honestly.....

[Joy]

Hi. (: Yes, I do tend to not be a very self-aware person, sometimes much more so than others. When I'm stressed, for example.

I do think that the fact that I was stressed out enough about this stuff to come back here is evidence that it's a bad direction. I should just back off of all of this crap and focus on my priorities. When there's an option that doesn't make me feel unsettled, I'll go for it.

[silverchris9]

Yeah, that. Whatever it is exactly. I remember that viscerally bugged the hell out of me back in the day, and I'd go off on Joy a lot because of it. And people would ask me "y u hate Joy??"

...Ni-polr...?