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Thread: Jane Fonda

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Default Jane Fonda

    Why is she ENFj?

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    Creepy-bg

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    I don't know, but she used to be hot.




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    barbarella! i would tend to think ISFj? it seems like she's been typed as such by a number of socionists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    barbarella! i would tend to think ISFj? it seems like she's been typed as such by a number of socionists.
    Yepz
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Jane Fonda

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Why is she ENFj?
    First, I don't think ISFj is impossible, but honestly I find some of the arguments a bit -- unconvincing, especially as I think that Russian Socionists are very often wrong when typing non-Russians.

    My ENFj impression got developed more due to her particular kind of political activism and the kind or arguments she made/makes whilst in that kind of role, but ok -- I'll give that some more thought.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    That's disappointing. Do you have some reference material? I'm not particularly attached to any type for Fonda, I know very little about her.

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    Here are other shots where she isn't trying to look sensual:



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    Creepy-bg

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    like I said... she used to be hot

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    Here's a video interview of Fonda with Barbara Walters. I personally don't have difficulty seeing her as EIE. I'm more inclined to think Walters is ESI.

    [GVideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4846610072469373346&q=jane+fonda&h l=en[/GVideo]

  10. #10
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    you've gotta use the google button for google videos :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    you've gotta use the google button for google videos :wink:
    Got it, thanks. I am technically challenged.

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    Naw, after watching that video I think EIE is a plenty good version. It's what I would have thought even if I hadn't heard about her type before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    That's disappointing. Do you have some reference material? I'm not particularly attached to any type for Fonda, I know very little about her.
    I've read about her political role, especially as "Hanoi Jane" -- the kind of arguments she made whilst in that role, and especially when apologizing about it, seem more ENFj-ish than ISFj-ish.

    In particular, she has apologized specifically - and only - about this picture as "Hanoi Jane":




    But her apologies seem to have a clear ENFj rather than ISFj viewpoint:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Fonda
    "I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. [...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Fonda
    The image of Jane Fonda, Barbarella, Henry Fonda's daughter ... sitting on an enemy aircraft gun was a betrayal ... the largest lapse of judgment that I can even imagine."

    She's focusing on the effect her image has on mobilizing people's emotions. That's sheer ENFj.

    Also, elsewhere, she's said that her home environment was emotionally suffocating, and only after leaving her home could she really express her emotions freely and be happy about herself.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    After seeing the video, I am absolutely sure that she is an ISFj. Expat, I don't understand why those single thoughts can be linked to ENFj and not ISFj. Actually the second part, is non-type-related. Everybody wants to freely express his/her emotions, even strong T types. And a Fi type would also be very concerned about the impact of her words on the people she is speaking to. An interesting trait that I have found to be common among ESIs is how in the moment they can be very brash with their comments, sometimes hurtful ( probably), but after some introspection they feel so guilty of this behaviour that they almost flagellate themselves for it. I can find the exact words from the Strats description, too, that confirms this point (and I do think the Strats description, being the author an ISFj herself, is undeniably good reference material).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Where did the EIE typing come from in the first place? I looked at a list on the Internet and found her in the SLE category, strangely enough. I support EIE, though.

    I don't see the basis for ESI. The whole idea of going and doing something as controversial and provocative as she did and attracting so much bad attention to herself (as "Hanoi Jane") is very un- . That's like an type publicly demonstrating how weak and pathetic he is. What Fonda did may have resonated with chest-beating activists, but it totally went against societal values.

    Maybe that in and of itself isn't very convincing, but the video is full of other info. When talking about the cause of her strained relationship with her daughter, she says that she was at home but was never "there." She was "outside of herself," out there doing something in the world that had no relation to herself, her soul, her inner interests, etc. What she did for her daughter was organize her external activities (her own words), but she did not give her focused attention. That to me sounds totally extraverted.

    When asked why she got along with her son, she answered that they took him everywhere with them. ESIs are good at giving direct, focused attention to people, and organization of external activities isn't their forte. Everything Fonda says emphasizes her activeness and busyness in all sorts of external activities even at age 70.

    When Fonda asked her daughter to film a short movie about her life, her daughter replied, "why don't you just put a chameleon on the lens and let it walk around." "Ouch," Fonda says to Barbara Walters, "that really hurt." The sense of being a chameleon and lacking an inner "core" (which she claims to have finally found through religion and spirituality) is so typical of EIEs.

    In several places Barbara Walters asks Fonda what she "feels" about certain things. Fonda evades the "feeling" part and talks about her observations.

    Finally, in the roles she plays, Fonda externally displays strong, contrasting emotions and passions. It's always her directing her emotional displays at someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Everybody wants to freely express his/her emotions, even strong T types.
    I can't imagine myself ever making a point of saying that an environment was "suffocating" because I could not express my emotions - on the contrary, I make a point of saying that I was "expected" to express emotions I didn't want to, but that's the precise opposite of what she said.


    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    And a Fi type would also be very concerned about the impact of her words on the people she is speaking to. An interesting trait that I have found to be common among ESIs is how in the moment they can be very brash with their comments, sometimes hurtful ( probably), but after some introspection they feel so guilty of this behaviour that they almost flagellate themselves for it. I can find the exact words from the Strats description, too, that confirms this point (and I do think the Strats description, being the author an ISFj herself, is undeniably good reference material).
    I understand what you're saying -- but my point was not about the concern about pain as such, it was her precise formulation, in a phrase to which she must have put a lot of thought.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Where did the EIE typing come from in the first place? I looked at a list on the Internet and found her in the SLE category, strangely enough. I support EIE, though.
    As far as I know, I thought of it first, when writing my "some possible EIEs" thread. So I take full responsibility if the typing is wrong.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    I don't see the basis for ESI. The whole idea of going and doing something as controversial and provocative as she did and attracting so much bad attention to herself (as "Hanoi Jane") is very un- . That's like an type publicly demonstrating how weak and pathetic he is. What Fonda did may have resonated with chest-beating activists, but it totally went against societal values.
    As in supported by ? But an EII would be more likely to do that, right (not saying that I think Fonda is EII, just a theoretical question).


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    The sense of being a chameleon and lacking an inner "core" (which she claims to have finally found through religion and spirituality) is so typical of EIEs.
    Aha.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Rick, stop bullshitting and learn to VI.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Rick, stop bullshitting and learn to VI.

    EIE all the way, VI included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Rick, stop bullshitting and learn to VI.

    EIE all the way, VI included.
    She's got a raw, edgy voice. Her body is stiff, wiry, and high-strung. She seems to be experiencing physical discomfort. She's a chameleon, a popularizer, full of energy and visible passion. She wants to "bare all" about herself in an Oprah-esque way. She's a crowd worker. Her look is similar to Mary Tyler Moore.

    Look at Barbara Walters by comparison, who keeps all her thoughts to herself and talks in a sweet, understanding voice, keeping the energy level down and the atmosphere intimate.

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    I did some research and found that Augusta had typed Jane Fonda as SLE, Tatyana Prokofieva as SLI, and Gulenko as ESI.

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    Any idea of how they arrived at those typings?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Don't know anything about her, but I'd say definitely SF, and maybe more likely rational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Any idea of how they arrived at those typings?
    Nope. I can only guess that they were influenced by her workout videos and movie roles.

    I think it's obvious that Jane Fonda is forceful. Perhaps her bombasticism plus her workout videos influenced Augusta. SLI seems bizarre to me -- I have no explanation for that. I don't understand ESI either (I don't see any ), except for -related behavior.

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    Perhaps there isn't really more to the SLI typing than the workout videos *shrug*
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Perhaps there isn't really more to the SLI typing than the workout videos *shrug*
    I wish there were more interest in typing Jane Fonda, because I've spent like 4 or 5 hours total watching videos of her, reading about her, and looking at pictures because of this debate

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    Well, I agree with you on her type
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Well, I agree with you on her type
    I think FDG's response put me in a combative mode, so not having anyone to argue about her type with now is anti-climatic...

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