What is Fe dual seeking?

**UDP** · 04-27-2007, 03:34 AM

What is it exactly?

Fe dual seeking is of course one aspect of the Ti-Fe axis.
Is Fe some sort of reciprocation of Ti structure?

F and T both lead to "structuring of reality" in that they are the "rational parameters" I suppose.

But I am curious as to what other people see

dual seeking as, not just in the "in need of help with emotions" kind of way ,either.

It feels like "I'm looking for my role (in society)" somewhat, and the most powerful thing is 'knowing my role'. Going further into Ti seems to have increased that feeling. It seems like I am looking for "my role", or what to do. Does that make sense? It is somehow different, and yet related to, knowing what is important. But I can easily tell what is most important.

Creepy-Diana · 04-27-2007, 04:11 AM

.

**Exodus** · 04-27-2007, 04:33 AM

It's strange, that description is fairly accurate, but I don't think INTjs naturally think in terms of "doing stuff" - which has a very Te (or Process, maybe) flavor to it. It's more like just getting you in the right emotional state, apart from any consequences it might have on your productivity or whatnot (Te).

**UDP** · 04-27-2007, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by Diana

Originally Posted by Augusta translation via Rick's site

When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

"Energize, emotional readiness for action, emotional states beneficial for life activities." Fe provides the juice that can get you going, emotionally prepares you for tackling whatever task is ahead. Not that you can't do things without Fe support, obviously, but with it, it's easier to get in the right frame of mind, where you don't need to work yourself up to a task. It makes it easier to do stuff.

Just some thoughts, if I'm off-base, lemme know because I haven't given much thought to Fe dual-seeking before.

Hmm.... I think I know what it is trying to say. If it is what I think it is, then yes, absolutely, an ESE would be incredibly useful to me.

**misutii** · 04-27-2007, 03:51 PM

damnitt i wish i could use my Fe skillz on myself to get worked up to an appropriate work state... oww i just drank 2 energy drinks and my stomach hurts....

**Not A Communist Shill** · 04-27-2007, 03:55 PM

is the attractive fleshy bits that

needs to be fully activated in the world,

is the rigid bone structure that

needs to have a grounded reality

.

**Expat** · 04-27-2007, 04:19 PM

Fe-dual seeking is about needing others to put you on a happy, active state of mind.

I have known an ISTj guy for many years. His wife is, I think, ISFj. He's often on a gloomy mood, but he "lightens up" when his ENFj son is around him excited about something.

**Jonathan** · 04-27-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Expat

Fe-dual seeking is about needing others to put you on a happy, active state of mind.

I have known an ISTj guy for many years. His wife is, I think, ISFj. He's often on a gloomy mood, but he "lightens up" when his ENFj son is around him excited about something.

This always puzzled me. Rick has described acc-T sometimes as if it's related to gloominess. Why should that be the case? If a person is really Acc-T, that person should be kind of emotion-neutral, right?

**Expat** · 04-27-2007, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan

If a person is really Acc-T, that person should be kind of emotion-neutral, right?

Only if you assume that a person's psyche is made only of the ego functions.

That's the mistake I see you and others making. Socionics is about intertype relationships. If you accept that a logical type such as the LII has the ESE as its dual, then you are also accepting that what the LII most values in a partner is dominant

; so there is something about dominant

that the LII craves.

If an LII is "emotion neutral", why should the LII have the ESE as dual?

Right, all of that was a

argumentation.

If you think that the LII is emotion-neutral, you are also dismissing the very idea of duality (and other intertype relationships). Remember,

is a quadra value of the LII; its dual-seeking function, rather than (say)

. So the LII prefers

to

, and therefore cannot be emotion-neutral.

Or you are simply assuming that quadra values and dual-seeking functions play no role, that you should focus only on the ego functions? Is that what you're doing?

**Blaze** · 04-27-2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by misutii

damnitt i wish i could use my Fe skillz on myself to get worked up to an appropriate work state... oww i just drank 2 energy drinks and my stomach hurts....

i dunno...i always remember your quote of needing an tsunami of anxiety to get going...good one!

**UDP** · 04-27-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by Expat

Fe-dual seeking is about needing others to put you on a happy, active state of mind.

I have known an ISTj guy for many years. His wife is, I think, ISFj. He's often on a gloomy mood, but he "lightens up" when his ENFj son is around him excited about something.

This always puzzled me. Rick has described acc-T sometimes as if it's related to gloominess. Why should that be the case? If a person is really Acc-T, that person should be kind of emotion-neutral, right?

That is a good point at any rate, in that I do find myself striving for emotional neutrality, in that it is especially peaceful - not being gloomy, and not seeking

Also, no type is truly absolutely "emotionally neutral", as not only is every type a human being, but every T type is looking for an F type, etc.

What Expat said is very important to consider, especially keeping in mind that socionics is about intertype relationships. There is no real isolation. And if there was, we wouldn't know about it, heh heh heh.

**Jonathan** · 04-27-2007, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Expat

Originally Posted by Jonathan

If a person is really Acc-T, that person should be kind of emotion-neutral, right?

Only if you assume that a person's psyche is made only of the ego functions.

That's the mistake I see you and others making. Socionics is about intertype relationships. If you accept that a logical type such as the LII has the ESE as its dual, then you are also accepting that what the LII most values in a partner is dominant

; so there is something about dominant

that the LII craves.

If an LII is "emotion neutral", why should the LII have the ESE as dual?

Right, all of that was a

argumentation.

If you think that the LII is emotion-neutral, you are also dismissing the very idea of duality (and other intertype relationships). Remember,

is a quadra value of the LII; its dual-seeking function, rather than (say)

. So the LII prefers

to

, and therefore cannot be emotion-neutral.

Or you are simply assuming that quadra values and dual-seeking functions play no role, that you should focus only on the ego functions? Is that what you're doing?

Actually, I'm surprised you think I make the mistake that "a person's psyche is made only of the ego functions." It seems most of my posts take the opposite perspective.

What I meant by LII being emotion-neutral wasn't that LII doesn't value emotions in others or is not responsive to emotional states, or that they play no role in that person's psyche. I was just questioning why acc-Ti types should be gloomy. You can say that would explain why they like Fe, but it's not the only possibility. You could also get the systemt to work by saying that Ti types aren't gloomy but that they're so neutral, so lacking in emotion, that they need to live off the emotions of others. That was the other possibility I was thinking of, but I decided not to mention it before.

However, in this case, I wasn't really criticizing the idea of acc-Ti types being gloomy; I just wanted to know why. To say that it makes the system work because having them be gloomy would cause them to like Fe types doesn't answer that question. (I guess I'm asking for a Te response here rather than a Ti one.

)

**jas05** · 04-27-2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jonathan

You could also get the systemt to work by saying that Ti types aren't gloomy but that they're so neutral, so lacking in emotion, that they need to live off the emotions of others.

I often find myself living others' emotions.

**Jonathan** · 04-27-2007, 07:41 PM

Or to put it another way: Let's accept that they have to be gloomy to make the system happy. What are they so gloomy about? Is it that they think that what's in their heads is all there is, or that they have considered all the possibilities or methods of action so that there seems to be no other "out" for them?

**UDP** · 04-27-2007, 08:06 PM

blah. I cannot write at the moment.

**krieger** · 04-27-2007, 09:29 PM

I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider myself a 'gloomy' person in the sense that it is a problem that needs to be solved. To me Fe dual seeking has consisted more in expanding my sphere of influence. An ESFj knows how to get on the good side of many people that are initially out-of-bounds to INTj's. Spending time with an ESFj inspires to communicate with others on an informal level, which offers oppurtunities that the INTj would otherwise miss. Altogether having an ESFj on his side gives the INTj a sense of safety and confidence, as those inter-human problems of everyday life suddenly don't look as insurmountable as they used to.

I have to add that I am an exertion Fi type, which may or may not have to do with this issue.

Creepy-Diana · 04-27-2007, 09:52 PM

.

**UDP** · 04-27-2007, 10:47 PM

I think those are reasonable comments.

ISTjs seem to be more easily polarized into good and evil states.
I definitely prefer to be somewhat neutral and not emotionally involved, although, Fe charges to get to me at times

**XoX** · 04-27-2007, 10:49 PM

it is a chronic dizeaz

**Saberstorm** · 12-24-2012, 05:52 PM

Ok Damn It, Fe dual seeking...

what is it like?

Dual Seeking is a subconscious function. Thus, for me to describe it is rather like trying to shave hair off my back, <<eww>> I cannot see it!

Here is a skit representing a subconscious function:

<<Me: What do you mean, I got hair on my back.>>
<<Girl: Dude, you've got a hairy back.>>
<<Me. no way>>
<<Girl: Yes>>
<<Me. Aw fuck ... >>

So what is my subconscious Fe dual seeking like?

I will start off by saying that I do have a strong desire for certain people to participate in my theoretical musings. And that I am hurt and even depressed if certain people do not want to allow for me to express my musings.

However, more so that expressing musings, I very much want people to act in accordance to my explanations of things, wherein I would rather explain how something works as a process than give detailed instructions. This is to say, I want people to cooperate with me, without me giving specific commands or detailed instructions. Instead I want them to act with intelligence and freedom in accord with my explanation of how a system or process works.

I want to set the strategy of what we are doing inside of a causal explanation, and then establish a causal explanation of why we are acting like we do, and then ENJOY everybody’s cooperation!

What does this look like romantically?

**Absurd** · 12-24-2012, 05:56 PM

Creepy-pikachu · 12-25-2012, 10:15 AM

Ask Yaaroslav, lol.

**krieger** · 12-25-2012, 10:31 AM

in my teens i would make a video to present something for school and i'd have this idea in my head that i was pretty good at modulating my voice and gesturing so as to make the presentation engaging and entertaining. when i watched the recording though i was in for a bitter shock; it didn't look anywhere near as good on screen. that's the closest thing to something i can think of. i think i'm better aware of it these days and don't "try" to get the Fe stuffs right anymore, though.

**Kalinoche buenanoche** · 12-25-2012, 12:29 PM

Ti bases are strict dorks WHO'S WITH ME

**blackburry** · 12-25-2012, 01:28 PM

I've done the same thing labster has done. so Fi base are strict dorks too.

*ahhem*

**Beautiful sky** · 12-25-2012, 02:57 PM

Fe DS?

Introvert, sits at home, or goes to work; gets kinda depressed because what they really want is someone saying "let's go to this museum and check out this exhibit I've wanted to see; let's take a drive up to this coast and see this; friends tell me about this movie and that thing. I'm so excited to see this THIS is what I'VE WANTED TO DO SINCE LAST YEAR." IN that kind of emotionally loud and expressive way; Fe DS goes "yes, please."

**Suz** · 12-25-2012, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by blackburry

I've done the same thing labster has done. so Fi base are strict dorks too.

*ahhem*

Originally Posted by labster

in my teens i would make a video to present something for school and i'd have this idea in my head that i was pretty good at modulating my voice and gesturing so as to make the presentation engaging and entertaining. when i watched the recording though i was in for a bitter shock; it didn't look anywhere near as good on screen. that's the closest thing to something i can think of. i think i'm better aware of it these days and don't "try" to get the Fe stuffs right anymore, though.

I was just going to say, the other day one of my bosses was giving me some end-of-year feedback, and told me that I have a "style" that whenever I make a presentation I sound bored. Meanwhile all this time, I thought I was coming across over-the-top peppy and enthusiastic and was actually worrying about needing to tone things down. I feel horrible now that everyone must think I've been totally bored, when I'm not!

Does that make me Fe-DS then?

**Radio** · 12-25-2012, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan

Fe DS goes "yes, please."

irlol

**blackburry** · 12-25-2012, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

I was just going to say, the other day one of my bosses was giving me some end-of-year feedback, and told me that I have a "style" that whenever I make a presentation I sound bored. Meanwhile all this time, I thought I was coming across over-the-top peppy and enthusiastic and was actually worrying about needing to tone things down. I feel horrible now that everyone must think I've been totally bored, when I'm not!

Does that make me Fe-DS then?

what do you honestly think?..

**blackburry** · 12-25-2012, 04:23 PM

SABERSTORM. u iz so LII it'z funny.

But yeah I think you're seekin som Fe.

which I'm giving you.

**Suz** · 12-26-2012, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by blackburry

what do you honestly think?..

My guess is that the difference between weak de-valued Fe and weak but valued Fe (including Fe-DS) rests in how one feels in reaction to such a scenario, not in the scenario itself.

weak de-valued Fe - speaker feels embarrassed but annoyed at the judgement given by the audience that did not correspond to the speaker's intended message.

weak valued Fe - to be honest I dont really know... someone with Fe-DS please comment.

p.s. no need for attitude blackburry.My mission was to discuss this fine but crucial point.

**Suz** · 12-26-2012, 01:26 AM

On a semi-related note, why, then do I have such weak Fe, isn't my Fe supposed to be strong?? (if I am any extraverted ethical - whether i'm IEE, SEE, or ESE as people have proposed)

Maybe I am EII after all... Or (dare I say it..) SLI?

**blackburry** · 12-26-2012, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

My guess is that the difference between weak de-valued Fe and weak but valued Fe (including Fe-DS) rests in how one feels in reaction to such a scenario, not in the scenario itself.

weak de-valued Fe - speaker feels embarrassed but annoyed at the judgement given by the audience that did not correspond to the speaker's intended message.

weak valued Fe - to be honest I dont really know... someone with Fe-DS please comment.

p.s. no need for attitude blackburry.My mission was to discuss this fine but crucial point.

zero attitude. I just thought your question was silly and you're over-thinking it.

**Suz** · 12-26-2012, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by blackburry

zero attitude. I just thought your question was silly and you're over-thinking it.

ok, but from your reaction, i think you're underthinking it.

**Scapegrace** · 12-26-2012, 03:10 AM

This thread needs to get more serious right now.

I'll sic Maritsa on all of you.

**blackburry** · 12-26-2012, 03:23 AM

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe heheheheheheheheheheheheheh

am i?

**fen** · 12-26-2012, 03:31 AM

GUYS WE ALL HAVE TO BE HAPPY OKAY. STOP BEING SAD WE HAVE TO BE HAPPY BECAUSE I WILL MALFUNCTION IF WE AREN'T ALL SMILING WITH OUR FANGS! *eyetwitch*

**Saberstorm** · 12-26-2012, 04:34 AM

Fen, are you okay? What are you talking about?

**Leader** · 12-26-2012, 06:10 AM

Shes giving you an example of Fe dual seeking.

Fe dual seeking, you mean as in what are Fe egos seeking in their dual, or people who are seeking Fe?

....Fe is intense and complex emotion, projected outward to affect the state of someone's emotional world.

Fe: WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! BAEGEIGAEIGANGIANGAIGNGAN!

Fe: I LOVE YOU!
Fe:I.....-LOVE-......YOU.
Fe:AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW ISNT THAT SO SWEEEEET!!!!
Fe:awwwww.....hehe.....

General examples of Fe, and of course you can't really capture its essence online. And besides that, each Fe of a type has a different flavor due to their order of arrangement so certain subtle nuances cannot be conveyed.

**Leader** · 12-26-2012, 06:25 AM

You look ENFj anyways, so that's probably how you sound. Very dramatic and emotional, with a tinge of regal importance and mystic (Fe Base filtered through Ni Creative).

Just a thought, I find it surprising that people generally have no idea how they come across to others, including myself at one point.

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