View Poll Results: type of Niels Bohr?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    0 0%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    0 0%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    0 0%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    0 0%
  • ILI (INTp)

    3 75.00%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    0 0%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    0 0%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    1 25.00%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    0 0%
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Thread: Niels Bohr

  1. #1
    Expat's Avatar
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    Default Niels Bohr

    One of the fathers of Quantum Theory.

    I am assuming most people here don't know much about him -- so what do say from VI? I have selected as broad a range of pictures as I could find.


    Niels Bohr quotes: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr

    Physics is to be regarded not so much as the study of something given a priori, but rather as the development of methods of ordering and surveying human experience. In this respect our task must be to account for such experience in a manner independent of individual subjective judgement and therefore objective in the sense that it can be unambiguously communicated in ordinary human language.

    Every valuable human being must be a radical and a rebel, for what he must aim at is to make things better than they are.

    How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress.

    An expert is a person who has found out by his own painful experience all the mistakes that one can make in a very narrow field.

    We must be clear that when it comes to atoms, language can be used only as in poetry. The poet, too, is not nearly so concerned with describing facts as with creating images and establishing mental connections.

    Some subjects are so serious that one can only joke about them.

    No, no, you are not thinking, you are just being logical. -- In response to those who made purely formal or mathematical arguments, as quoted in What Little I Remember (1979) by Otto Robert Frisch, p. 95

    I feel very much like Dirac: the idea of a personal God is foreign to me. But we ought to remember that religion uses language in quite a different way from science. The language of religion is more closely related to the language of poetry than to the language of science. True, we are inclined to think that science deals with information about objective facts, and poetry with subjective feelings. Hence we conclude that if religion does indeed deal with objective truths, it ought to adopt the same criteria of truth as science. But I myself find the division of the world into an objective and a subjective side much too arbitrary. The fact that religions through the ages have spoken in images, parables, and paradoxes means simply that there are no other ways of grasping the reality to which they refer. But that does not mean that it is not a genuine reality. And splitting this reality into an objective and a subjective side won't get us very far.

    I consider those developments in physics during the last decades which have shown how problematical such concepts as "objective" and "subjective" are, a great liberation of thought. The whole thing started with the theory of relativity. In the past, the statement that two events are simultaneous was considered an objective assertion, one that could be communicated quite simply and that was open to verification by any observer. Today we know that 'simultaneity' contains a subjective element, inasmuch as two events that appear simultaneous to an observer at rest are not necessarily simultaneous to an observer in motion. However, the relativistic description is also objective inasmuch as every observer can deduce by calculation what the other observer will perceive or has perceived. For all that, we have come a long way from the classical ideal of objective descriptions.

    In mathematics we can take our inner distance from the content of our statements. In the final analysis mathematics is a mental game that we can play or not play as we choose. Religion, on the other hand, deals with ourselves, with our life and death; its promises are meant to govern our actions and thus, at least indirectly, our very existence. We cannot just look at them impassively from the outside. Moreover, our attitude to religious questions cannot be separated from our attitude to society.










    That was the only video I could find so far, on the 1927 Solvay conference. You can see Bohr chatting with Schrödinger in the beginning, and here and there later.




    A picture of the same occasion as the video, Brussels in 1927.

    Last edited by silke; 08-04-2015 at 01:23 AM. Reason: updated links
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  2. #2
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    ILE or ILI

  3. #3
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    I really like that picture of him with Einstein. You can see the amusement with paparazzi in Einsteins face contrasted with Bohr who looks more like he's just hating the intrusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    I really like that picture of him with Einstein. You can see the amusement with paparazzi in Einsteins face contrasted with Bohr who looks more like he's just hating the intrusion.
    I had never thought of looking at that picture that way -- but I think you're absolutely right, great point.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    by comparison to other people, bohr's VI is extremely informative.

    in not one of these pictures does bohr make any sort of emotional expression; rather, he has a gloomy sort of detached apathy. he also strongly resembles an ILI music teacher that i once had, especially in the picture of him standing in front of a blackboard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    by comparison to other people, bohr's VI is extremely informative.

    in not one of these pictures does bohr make any sort of emotional expression; rather, he has a gloomy sort of detached apathy.
    Maybe we could add these:








  7. #7
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    by v.i. alone he looks way more ILI than ILE IMO.
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    Here are some quotes from this bio that may or may not have some relevance:

    "Already as a boy Niels Bohr was vigorously preoccupied with using his hands and his common sense for practical tasks. Thereby he got an opportunity to develop his precision and his powers of observation so that things were made exact-ly and correctly because he took the time that was necessary and was never over-hasty. It is also said that when several chil-dren were together he was able to give the others the impres-sion that they had contributed to the result even though in reality they had perhaps only been spectators. All this was something that also came to be a characteristic of his working methods later in his life."


    "The years of study at the rather small university in Copen-hagen, which was then still situated in the old part of town and which was for this reason less isolated from the rest of society than many other universities, became valuable in many ways. Most important, perhaps, was the contact with students studying other subjects. This contact was a result of the open classes in fundamental philosophical concepts which were at that time compulsory for all students. The professor was Harald Høffding who has already been mentioned as a frequent guest in Bohr's home, and a number of his students formed a conversation group in order to dis-cuss philosophical and scientific subjects. These were so to speak all the young people who later reached prominent positions within their respective fields of research, but from the very first it was clear that the most promising of them were Niels Bohr and his brother Harald who had matriculat-ed the year after Niels. The two brothers' way of thinking seemed to be co-ordinated, one of their friends said later. They continued and improved each other's argumentation at such a pace that nobody else could take part in it. The only drawback in this connection was that often the chairman had to ask Niels to speak louder, though his request had no effect at all. This continued to be a problem throughout his life. This form of dialogue in which Niels Bohr expatiated together with others became characteristic of all his activi-ties. He could only work in harmony and understanding with those that were closest to him. The constant dialogue with his brother continued as long as they both lived. His colleagues at the Institute for Theoretical Physics have related how Niels Bohr could suddenly stop in the middle of a train of thoughts and say: "I must talk with my brother about this!" - and then he would immediately walk over to the mathematical insti-tute that was situated right next to his own institute. "

    "Bohr was first and foremost a theorist, and a very intuitive theorist at that, but he based his theoretical assumptions on experimental data that were available from scientific research from all over the world and the problems that constantly turned up gave him an opportunity to take an initiative to undertake or propose further experimental work.

    Contrary to many scientists who accept new and epoch-making results, Bohr never failed to emphasize both the limitation of the scope of the methods employed and the incompleteness of the basis on which the theory had come into existence. Any new result gave rise for him to point to new questions that arose. "

    "One gets a strong impression of a warm and cheerful en-vironment where the co-operation concerning work and studies resulted in friendships and comradeship. It is charac-teristic that there are a lot of photographs of the circle related to the Institute showing the members in their spare time - bathing, playing tennis, skiing, motorbiking, at Bohr's sum-mer house - and Bohr was always at the front. He was an excellent and keen skier, an enthusiastic yachtsman - and his desire to try everything that was new, for instance a motor-cycle, was enough to give grey hairs to those with a greater sense of responsibility.

    As a further indication of the spontaneous atmosphere at Blegdamsvej it should be mentioned that at the annual con-ference of physicists there was also time for cheerful, cabaret like features - in 1932, for instance, a Faust parody in which a number of the great physicists of the time were presented as Goethe's characters and the current scientific subjects for discussion were parodied. Der Herr - that is God - spoke like Niels Bohr in a mixture of German and English and some characteristic Danicisms that developed at the cosmopolitan institute. Actually this is still great fun - and at that time nobody enjoyed himself more than Niels Bohr.

    It is this combination of cheerfulness and scientific endeavors that is called the "spirit of Copenhagen" in the memories and with which everybody credits first of all Niels Bohr himself, if Margrethe Bohr is not mentioned in the same breath. She was an invaluable support to her husband in a long and unusually happy marriage that made an impres-sion on everybody who met the couple. "

    "The hush-hush world that Bohr entered already in England and which continued to surround him in the USA was not his natural element. It formed a glaring contrast to his warm openness. However, the demands of the war made it inevita-ble to attempt keeping Bohr's presence in England and the USA a secret. "

    "Niels Bohr's unique position in Danish society was due not only to his scientific contributions, but also to a great extent to his wide range of commitments and his humbleness of heart when it came to tasks in society that had to be solved. For 27 years he was chairman of the Cancer Committee, for 23 years he was president of the Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters and he had time for a wide range of committees. In all of these situations he contributed as much as he was capable of. He did not engage in anything without feeling deeply committed to his various obligations."

  9. #9
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    In the pictures depicting him at a ripe age he appears as a carbon copy of a mathematics professor I used to study under, and that man was definitely some variant of ILI.

  10. #10
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    yeah I just don't get the goofy vibe off him that ILEs exude (Einstein for instance). It's interresting watching that video of Expats... it's like a parade of all the different NTs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    yeah I just don't get the goofy vibe off him that ILEs exude (Einstein for instance). It's interresting watching that video of Expats... it's like a parade of all the different NTs.
    Yes I think Wolfang Pauli was ILI, and Heisenberg probably LII -- Schrödinger more likely ILE (I know a little about them to get a superficial impression, but I don't know them in detail).

    Not all of them were necessarily NTs, of course, but it's not obvious to me which one of them wasn't.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    the first picture match someone I know. (i got an "aha" moment) That person is an INTJ

    The rest of the pictures don't give me such aha moment. they don't say anything...

  13. #13
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    Bohr: ILE
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

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    What did Bohr do that was ever structured? I'm with ILI on this one.

    I could believe ISFp is his exertion type. I also see some resemblence to...Isha.

  15. #15
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    by v.i. alone he looks way more ILI than ILE IMO.
    Definitely. No way is that guy a Positivist extrovert. INTj or INTp.

  16. #16
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    The ironic thing about AE is that he seems to have so gotten caught up on his own assumptions "God does not play dice", that he limited his real scope of possibilities by such an attachment.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    The ironic thing about AE is that he seems to have so gotten caught up on his own assumptions "God does not play dice", that he limited his real scope of possibilities by such an attachment.
    it isn't an assumption when he arrived at this statement because of all the evidence that points that way.

    i've read that niels bohr replied in a letter to einstein: stop telling god what to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes I think Wolfang Pauli was ILI, and Heisenberg probably LII -- Schrödinger more likely ILE (I know a little about them to get a superficial impression, but I don't know them in detail).
    Interesting.

    My guesses are:

    Erwin Schrödinger - definitely looks ILE. Maybe a Ti subtype.

    Werner Heisenberg - Hmm, upon closer inspection, now I'm not sure. Just kidding. Looks ILI, subtype. Interesting to consider that his primary work was exploring the limits of probabilistic estimation ( ).

    Wolfgang Pauli - not sure. Perhaps LII. His looks > .

    How about Dirac? Anyone? He's kind of tricky. Looks kind of feisty in some of the photos I've seen.

  19. #19
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    ILI does not seem that obvious to me.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    ENTP seems more likely to me.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  21. #21
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    ENTP seems more likely to me.
    the guy looks undead... he's got one of those faces that your mother warned you about, "stop making that face or it's going to freeze like that!" I don't think ENTp (but then I never met the guy so what do I know )

  22. #22
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Default Re: Niels Bohr

    His facial structure is just like Oscar Wilde's (ENTp).





    However Wilde has a very different look, more confident and intent. I still think INTp is more likely.

  23. #23
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Yes I think Wolfang Pauli was ILI, and Heisenberg probably LII -- Schrödinger more likely ILE (I know a little about them to get a superficial impression, but I don't know them in detail).
    Interesting.

    My guesses are:

    Erwin Schrödinger - definitely looks ILE. Maybe a Ti subtype. And from a psychoanalytic standpoint, I can see an ENTp coming up with his famous cat metaphor.

    Werner Heisenberg - Hmm, upon closer inspection, now I'm not sure. Just kidding. Looks ILI, subtype. Interesting to consider that his primary work was exploring the limits of probabilistic estimation ( ).

    Wolfgang Pauli - not sure. Perhaps LII. His looks > .

    How about Dirac? Anyone? He's kind of tricky. Looks kind of feisty in some of the photos I've seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Dirac
    I think that there is a moral to this story, namely that it is more important to have beauty in one's equations that to have them fit experiment. If Schrödinger had been more confident of his work, he could have published it some months earlier, and he could have published a more accurate equation. It seems that if one is working from the point of view of getting beauty in one's equations, and if one has really a sound insight, one is on a sure line of progress. If there is not complete agreement between the results of one's work and experiment, one should not allow oneself to be too discouraged, because the discrepancy may well be due to minor features that are not properly taken into account and that will get cleared up with further development of the theory.
    Scientific American, May 1963.

    Mathematics is the tool specially suited for dealing with abstract concepts of any kind and there is no limit to its power in this field.
    Preface to The principles of Quantum Mechanics (Oxford, 1930)
    Dirac is the epitome of Ti. INTj. As for Schrodinger: likely ENTp. I'm working on the others.

  24. #24
    silke's Avatar
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    ILI-Te so/sp imo, Einstein's "contrary/extinguishment" relation, which btw is described as a beneficial intertype for doing research together, accumulating and sharing information.

    edit: after surveying more of his statements I got a vague impression of enneagram 1w9
    Last edited by silke; 08-04-2015 at 06:27 AM.

  25. #25
    President of WSS Jack Oliver Aaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    His facial structure is just like Oscar Wilde's (ENTp).





    However Wilde has a very different look, more confident and intent. I still think INTp is more likely.
    Well, that's assuming that their facial structure is type specific. Furthermore, I have my doubts that Oscar Wilde was ILE.
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  26. #26
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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  27. #27
    President of WSS Jack Oliver Aaron's Avatar
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    There is one option we haven't considered, which I think might carry some merit. That option is IEE.

    I think it apparent that Niels did not value L in his approach. He tried to examine the evidence and form theories from this evidence that bore little if any consistency with the theories that came before. The nature of contradiction is inherent to his ideas and interests. It is important to consider also his personal charisma. He thrived in talking and interpersonal discussion, rather than simply being left to his own thoughts. He would talk incessantly (albeit in a soft, mumbling way), while at the same time being seen as possessing intrinsic 'goodness', bringing out the best in those around him. His logical thought was rarely cold or detached, but involved in an eclectic mix of philosophy and poetry. He liked to convey truth as images rather than words (had difficulty with writing clearly) and in general did not provide clear structures. He even failed to become a successful lecturer because, rather than explain clearly what he had covered, he preferred to talk about what he might go on to explain later.

    I also think his relationship to Einstein, although one of rivalry and mutual disagreement, was nevertheless highly affectionate. They were very fond of each other and I think this better suits Kindred than Extinguishment.

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  28. #28
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    Well, that's assuming that their facial structure is type specific. Furthermore, I have my doubts that Oscar Wilde was ILE.
    lol, why did you quote my post from 8 years ago? I renounce this post as well any of the other random nonsense I might have written on here years ago.

    Wilde - right now I would say he's SEI actually. I noticed some similarities (behavior-wise, not facially) to John H Conway who I think is also SEI. The free-spirited, outspoken, hedonist kind of SEI.

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