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Thread: IEIs/INFps do you have difficultly expressing yourself verbaly?

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    Default IEIs/INFps do you have difficultly expressing yourself verbaly?

    Do any INFps here feel that they have difficulty expressing themselves orally? I know I certainly do, particularly in situations in which I'm nervous and uncomfortable (public speaking and meeting new people, in particular). Because of this, I often remain silent despite an intense desire to say something. I also think that this might be related to perfectionism in addition to nervousness, because I want to say something eloquent and profound every time I speak. It's frustrating. Do any of you relate to this?

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    I can relate to that, and it's due to nervousness. However, I try my best to speak up 'cos some extraverts (especially ESTp Se subtype) tend not to like quiet people and they tend to link introversion (especially quietness) to loner behaviour and psychopathic tendencies (no thanks to the media). I'm more comfortable in expressing and organizing my thoughts by writing them down though.

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    INFps can actually talk beautifully, once they've had time to collect their thoughts. It gets easier with time and exposure. I had that problem until Senior year of high school when I was in a debate class and had to talk every day... no one has since been able to get me to shut up. I have to admit... I've come to relish the sound of my own voice.

    Also, practice the philosophy of nonjudgement - embrace your fumbled words, long pauses, completely incoherent ramblings, etc. You can unlock a lot of potential once you let go of the pressure to talk like a textbook.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Ah, yes I still have this problem sometimes. In my mind words flow smoothly like a narrative, but expressing them orally in public is hard for me.

    Unfortunately I had a sever case of it and suffered from a rare social disorder called selective mutism for most of my school life (especially elementary school); I had all the clinical symptoms. At school I wouldn't be able to talk at all. Many people thought I was permanently mute, while that wasn't the case because at home I would talk excessively with quite a large vocabulary.
    I'm so relieved to find out I wasn't crazy, and there was actually a diagnosis for my strange inability to talk. Sadly, because selective mutism is rare, a lot of psychologist will mistake it for Asperger syndrome, or even Autism... which is exactly what happened to me.

    I'm wondering if it's a usual thing for INFp's to suffer from selective mutisim. I hear it may have been one of the things that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech shooter) may have suffered from.
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    I have problems verbally articulating myself as well. When I had to do a presentation in front of my class earlier this semester I had heart palpitations and my vision went blurry for a second and I honestly thought I was going to faint but I pulled through. I find I'm a lot better at talking to people one-to-one, in groups I often say things and I don't think they make sense because other people look puzzled, it's important that I establish common ground with someone in order to communicate with them freely, it's like I need to adapt to their wave-length, in groups it all gets tangled in the tragic twist of "no I meant..." and then I give up

    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Ah, yes I still have this problem sometimes. In my mind words flow smoothly like a narrative, but expressing them orally in public is hard for me.

    Unfortunately I had a sever case of it and suffered from a rare social disorder called selective mutism for most of my school life (especially elementary school); I had all the clinical symptoms. At school I wouldn't be able to talk at all. Many people thought I was permanently mute, while that wasn't the case because at home I would talk excessively with quite a large vocabulary.
    I'm so relieved to find out I wasn't crazy, and there was actually a diagnosis for my strange inability to talk. Sadly, because selective mutism is rare, a lot of psychologist will mistake it for Asperger syndrome, or even Autism... which is exactly what happened to me.

    I'm wondering if it's a usual thing for INFp's to suffer from selective mutisim. I hear it may have been one of the things that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech shooter) may have suffered from.
    Weird. My front neighbor had the same problem. I think it's extreme social anxiety, but never asked him...
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    I often remain silent despite an intense desire to say something. I also think that this might be related to perfectionism in addition to nervousness, because I want to say something eloquent and profound every time I speak. It's frustrating. Do any of you relate to this?
    I can relate to this. And I understand that it is quite painful to go up for public speaking when half your mind is wondering about how you have to cater to each different wavelength from different groups of people so that they can understand what you are trying to say while the other half is busy deciding what you *are* trying to say. And the other half is deciding on how to beautify what you are trying to say. (And since you only have 2 halves of a brain, it means that you are doing something quite impossible. :wink: )

    To overcome this frustration once and for all, I believe it requires a certain amount of activation energy:

    Just open your mouth and say something, anything. You will mess up the first few times. It's good. It means that you're still human and not some highly evolved angel from the nether realms of Kinizublee Land.

    After awhile, you will realize that messing up is fine; no one will kill you for not being able to verbalize and/or organize your ideas, and in fact you done well, through many brave mistakes, in giving a great ego booster to the more verbally/logically able people in your (:

    Back to the point.

    Since your fears have been conquered and you have learnt through the hard way that you are not as good a vocalizer as you have visualized yourself to be, there are two things you can do in order to turn your vivid and perfectly beautiful dreams into reality:

    1) strengthen your own vocalization skills just like how baby said, by giving yourself more time and exposure

    2) reassure yourself that the essence and purpose behind what you desire to present to others is good, for doing so will automatically improve the delivery of your 'speech' i.e. if you want to introduce an elegant idea to a crowd elegantly, reassure yourself of the good purpose of this idea, and reaffirm that this idea will benefit your audience upon its acceptance. Then when you finally speak, your conviction will shine through and you will *naturally* appear eloquent and profound. If you stumble, it is usually because you were concentrating too much on 'trying not to mess up' and in doing so you have mess up. Just quieten down, pick yourself up, reassure yourself of the goodness of your goals, redefine your motives, and continue.

    So give yourself time, and realize that concentration on the purposefulness of the goal of your delivery will yield better results than concentration on how not to mess up the delivery.

    Have fun,
    and remember:

    "The road to evolving from a normal human to an angel from the nether realms of kinizublee land is a tough but rewarding journey." ~ [insert random name here]
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    "Yes, it will be done."


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    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii

    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    I absolutely agree with this.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    INFps can actually talk beautifully, once they've had time to collect their thoughts. It gets easier with time and exposure. I had that problem until Senior year of high school when I was in a debate class and had to talk every day... no one has since been able to get me to shut up. I have to admit... I've come to relish the sound of my own voice.

    Also, practice the philosophy of nonjudgement - embrace your fumbled words, long pauses, completely incoherent ramblings, etc. You can unlock a lot of potential once you let go of the pressure to talk like a textbook.
    sound advice. I talk like a serf sometimes but forgive myself because of context. You don't have to talk like a textbook when the situation calls you to be decisive. In fact, it's an inconvenience in those situations.
    asd

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    But when they're very comfortable, relaxed, and feel that the people they're speaking to will listen respectively and not judge, they have beautiful words and ways of translating their idealism.
    Is that a gift to solely the INFp, or is it something that is not related to type?

    In a different context, would it be common to see an ENFj having that same gift too?
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    I'm wondering if it's a usual thing for INFp's to suffer from selective mutisim.
    It could be. I've also had problems with not talking to anyone, or talking to strangers and people that I don't feel comfortable with in general for that matter, when I was young. I was very (really) shy as a child and would hardly speak to anyone, for whatever the reason. I took it as an extreme form of shyness and social anxiety. I'd tense-up and freeze whenever I was expected to say or do something at school or something. I am extremely soft-spoken and it seems like no-one can hear what I'm saying. Although when I speak in a "normal" hearing-voice, I'd feel like I am shouting. I actually still find it difficult and awkward to talk to people whom I don't feel comfortable with. I'm not really sure about 'selective mutism', I havn't looked too much into it.
    Achtung Baby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    I'm wondering if it's a usual thing for INFp's to suffer from selective mutisim.
    It could be. I've also had problems with not talking to anyone, or talking to strangers and people that I don't feel comfortable with in general for that matter, when I was young. I was very (really) shy as a child and would hardly speak to anyone, for whatever the reason. I took it as an extreme form of shyness and social anxiety. I'd tense-up and freeze whenever I was expected to say or do something at school or something. I am extremely soft-spoken and it seems like no-one can hear what I'm saying. Although when I speak in a "normal" hearing-voice, I'd feel like I am shouting. I actually still find it difficult and awkward to talk to people whom I don't feel comfortable with. I'm not really sure about 'selective mutism', I havn't looked too much into it.
    Achtung Baby.

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    This speaking thing is pretty much the basis of my I/E quandary. I'll admit that I'm a bit of a special case with some rapidly disappearing issues around being casual and shall-we-say normal in a friendly setting, but in general, I feel like an ENFP who's had a mute button slapped on her. I mean, I SPEAK, and sometimes I can run off at the mouth, but sometimes I'll forget how to talk, you know? Even around people I know really well. And sometimes I'm super gregarious and friendly with strangers. So I don't know.

    Public speaking I DO NOT DO, though. The last time I tried I damn near had a panic attack (thankfully teach was very kind and let me off).

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    This speaking thing is pretty much the basis of my I/E quandary. I'll admit that I'm a bit of a special case with some rapidly disappearing issues around being casual and shall-we-say normal in a friendly setting, but in general, I feel like an ENFP who's had a mute button slapped on her. I mean, I SPEAK, and sometimes I can run off at the mouth, but sometimes I'll forget how to talk, you know? Even around people I know really well. And sometimes I'm super gregarious and friendly with strangers. So I don't know.

    Public speaking I DO NOT DO, though. The last time I tried I damn near had a panic attack (thankfully teach was very kind and let me off).

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    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by misu
    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    Sounds neurotic, irrational.

    I just answer the phone, get the message across, and wait for them to end unless I'm bored, in which case I just say I gotta go. Not that bad, lol.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by misu
    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    Sounds neurotic, irrational.

    I just answer the phone, get the message across, and wait for them to end unless I'm bored, in which case I just say I gotta go. Not that bad, lol.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...
    I don't know but, seeing this in righting makes it seem like you are thinking about it too hard. When I do it I can only think, "Okay I have not act stupid." Then I say, "It's impossible for me to act stupid, of course it is." And...yea, thats where it stops and I just go.

    ....there are some kinks in it, but it generally works for me.
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    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...
    I don't know but, seeing this in righting makes it seem like you are thinking about it too hard. When I do it I can only think, "Okay I have not act stupid." Then I say, "It's impossible for me to act stupid, of course it is." And...yea, thats where it stops and I just go.

    ....there are some kinks in it, but it generally works for me.
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...
    I don't know but, seeing this in righting makes it seem like you are thinking about it too hard. When I do it I can only think, "Okay I have not act stupid." Then I say, "It's impossible for me to act stupid, of course it is." And...yea, thats where it stops and I just go.

    ....there are some kinks in it, but it generally works for me.
    This sounds interesting. Feeding yourself synthetic ...I want to learn that skill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    I have my moments.

    I feed myself synthetic Se in order to speak well when at work and in other public places, works pretty well. Lots of work.
    Ooh, I know that one. Like, "wait a second... oh yeah, I can manage anything!" yay!
    I don't find it very much work once it gets going, but sometimes I don't have the energy to kickstart that darned Se, though...
    I don't know but, seeing this in righting makes it seem like you are thinking about it too hard. When I do it I can only think, "Okay I have not act stupid." Then I say, "It's impossible for me to act stupid, of course it is." And...yea, thats where it stops and I just go.

    ....there are some kinks in it, but it generally works for me.
    This sounds interesting. Feeding yourself synthetic ...I want to learn that skill

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii

    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    I absolutely agree with this.
    Try talking to 5-10 strangers simultaneously in a phone conference. Lols.

    But anyways I can kind of relate to many things said here.

    Edit: After reading again...I'm not sure if I relate that well. I relate to some things but not to many others. For example I have no problems talking loud or even forcefully getting attention and make others listen to me IF it is clear in my mind what I need to say or if I'm annoyed or something. However in a discussion situation where there is a lot of strangers discussing about some topic where I don't feel intellectually secure I have problems articulating. I kind of wished everyone would slow down and let me have my time to develop and then articulate my views. In those situations I can be quite silent even for longer periods of time. In situations where I feel intellectually secure and I clearly know what goals do I need to achieve it is easy for me to be quite forceful and dynamic speaker. One-on-one situations are much easier except those where there just isn't anything to talk about except some small talk. I sort of run out of small talk steam pretty quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Quote Originally Posted by misutii

    I ESPECIALLY... LIKE REALLY REALLY REALLY hate talking on the phone. I can't do it. It makes me a control freak, I impulsively take control of the conversation and then make it end ASAP. I usually just text message my friends, it's more convenient and if they want to talk then we'll do it face to face for the sake of my sanity.
    I absolutely agree with this.
    Try talking to 5-10 strangers simultaneously in a phone conference. Lols.

    But anyways I can kind of relate to many things said here.

    Edit: After reading again...I'm not sure if I relate that well. I relate to some things but not to many others. For example I have no problems talking loud or even forcefully getting attention and make others listen to me IF it is clear in my mind what I need to say or if I'm annoyed or something. However in a discussion situation where there is a lot of strangers discussing about some topic where I don't feel intellectually secure I have problems articulating. I kind of wished everyone would slow down and let me have my time to develop and then articulate my views. In those situations I can be quite silent even for longer periods of time. In situations where I feel intellectually secure and I clearly know what goals do I need to achieve it is easy for me to be quite forceful and dynamic speaker. One-on-one situations are much easier except those where there just isn't anything to talk about except some small talk. I sort of run out of small talk steam pretty quickly.

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    I find this very interesting. I am not sure of my type yet, but thought that I could not be an INFp because I thought that they, even being introverted, did not have trouble with public speaking and strangers. I imagined that a type which was very interested in attention would not have much of a problem with public speaking. I guess I just do not know enough about the type yet.

    Anyway, for me I absolutely loath any sort of public speaking as well as just raising my had to ask a question or make a comment in a class. Just thinking about doing it in class makes my palms sweaty and my heart race. Is this sort of thing a general train for INFp's? Maybe this will help me figure out what I am...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    I find this very interesting. I am not sure of my type yet, but thought that I could not be an INFp because I thought that they, even being introverted, did not have trouble with public speaking and strangers. I imagined that a type which was very interested in attention would not have much of a problem with public speaking. I guess I just do not know enough about the type yet.

    Anyway, for me I absolutely loath any sort of public speaking as well as just raising my had to ask a question or make a comment in a class. Just thinking about doing it in class makes my palms sweaty and my heart race. Is this sort of thing a general train for INFp's? Maybe this will help me figure out what I am...
    It is not a typical trait of INFps not to have any trouble with public speaking. I have an INFp friend who is almost exactly like you in that respect. It doesn't tell us much about your type though. By the way, INFps are not very interested in attention either. Don't forget that they are introverts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    I find this very interesting. I am not sure of my type yet, but thought that I could not be an INFp because I thought that they, even being introverted, did not have trouble with public speaking and strangers. I imagined that a type which was very interested in attention would not have much of a problem with public speaking. I guess I just do not know enough about the type yet.

    Anyway, for me I absolutely loath any sort of public speaking as well as just raising my had to ask a question or make a comment in a class. Just thinking about doing it in class makes my palms sweaty and my heart race. Is this sort of thing a general train for INFp's? Maybe this will help me figure out what I am...
    It is not a typical trait of INFps not to have any trouble with public speaking. I have an INFp friend who is almost exactly like you in that respect. It doesn't tell us much about your type though. By the way, INFps are not very interested in attention either. Don't forget that they are introverts.
    Hmm... the main site says that the basic pleasure of the INFp is attention while the basic fear is being ignored. Maybe they mean a different sort of attention than I have in mind? I was thinking of attention as in life of the party sort of attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Hmm... the main site says that the basic pleasure of the INFp is attention while the basic fear is being ignored.
    According to the Oldham types, yes. But Oldham is not Socionics. There is probably some sort of correlation between the two models, but it is not at all clear how strong that correlation might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Maybe they mean a different sort of attention than I have in mind? I was thinking of attention as in life of the party sort of attention.
    In that case you have an incorrect picture of INFps based on that Oldham explanation. INFps are not life-of-the-party-attention-seekers, not at all compared with some other types. That kind of attention seeking behaviour is much more typical of extraverts, for example the INFp's dual partner -- the ESTp. Skip the Oldham model and read some type descriptions, for example Filatova's in the Articles section.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Hmm... the main site says that the basic pleasure of the INFp is attention while the basic fear is being ignored.
    According to the Oldham types, yes. But Oldham is not Socionics. There is probably some sort of correlation between the two models, but it is not at all clear how strong that correlation might be.


    Irony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    INFps are not life-of-the-party-attention-seekers, not at all compared with some other types. That kind of attention seeking behaviour is much more typical of extraverts, for example the INFp's dual partner -- the ESTp. Skip the Oldham model and read some type descriptions, for example Filatova's in the Articles section.
    I once knew a INFp who came to school dressed in a black bin liner, and ran round the corriders and diving everywhere (on people's feet mostly). I'm not even sure he was wearing any clothes underneath...
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    I believe that INFp's do crave attention. In fact they feel uncomfortable without having attention.

    However they also feel uncomfortable when there is attention on them, thus the palpating heart and sweaty palms. This discomfort usually stems from the fear of losing attention through 'bad performance'.

    So once again we steer back to the fact that INFp's love attention.

    Don't get me wrong, INFp's can survive perfectly well without attention. They can be quiet, self-absorbed, and meditative.

    It's like fish. Sure they can survive in the tank but of course they prefer the ocean.

    In the same way, yes INFp's can live in the tank of 'lack of attention' but they prefer the ocean of 'gimme your attention cos I'm sexy'.

    I crave attention.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    I think I understand the confusion with INFps and attention and think I can clear it up.

    In general, as an INFp I'm not comfortable with, and do not attempt to garner, "group attention". i.e. being the centre of attention at big parties etc.
    Rather I find that I crave "personal" attention, particularly from people that I hold in high esteem. I find that group situations are comparatively shallow, in the sense that people hold back more meaningful avenues of discussion, for example, it's more difficult to feel "understood"........ maybe has something to do with hidden agenda

    one-on-one or amongst a small group of people I'm very familiar with I behave completely different. There's less limitations and I'm less inhibited because I know that if they're not understanding me then I can relate the information in a personalized way that that particular individual will comprehend (it's easier to fall back on mutual commonalities in such a situation whereas in a large group there really is no mutual commonalities). I like getting to know a person in my own little way, and prefer they get to know me in their own little way, on a deeper level than is usual in today's society, to discuss controversial issues with each other without any censorship or fear of seriously offending each other.....

    Therefore, imo, there are different levels of quality, with regards to interactions with others, just as there are different levels of quality in media. Like with media there's films and documentaries that get under your skin and force you to change the way you think of things, on one end, and reality tv on the other (maybe fun to watch but little to no actual value - thus leaves one feeling empty afterwards) I find that interactions with people fall upon similar lines. I love receiving attention from others when it's the former and avoid social situations when I can predict that all I can get is the latter.
    INFp-Ni

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    <3 misutii you say the coolest stuff. i know exactly what you mean.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Been wondering whether I am an INFp rather than INTp, but people saying that INFps like attention, I find it unlikely. The only way I like attention is when I have done something that nobody has thought of. And then like the attention, and then want it to end shortly afterwards. If I get focused on for doing something mundane or trivial, I dislike this attention as it makes me edgy.

    I guess this would make me unlikely to be INFp?

    Sorry if this post is off-topic, I didn't want to make a whole new one.
    INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

    "When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
    Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Been wondering whether I am an INFp rather than INTp, but people saying that INFps like attention, I find it unlikely. The only way I like attention is when I have done something that nobody has thought of. And then like the attention, and then want it to end shortly afterwards. If I get focused on for doing something mundane or trivial, I dislike this attention as it makes me edgy.

    I guess this would make me unlikely to be INFp?

    Sorry if this post is off-topic, I didn't want to make a whole new one.
    For what it's worth, you look not so much like me as Zeia and my father -- both INTp logical subtypes -- when he was young. I'll post an incomplete edit of the socioscope INTp description. It's accurate of my father -- he really beams when I praise him up and down for fixing phone lines!
    This good will not end…

    This good will not end… and then it is hardly worth beginning. If we are tuned to the poorest result in advance, then any outcome will bring gain to another.

    Life… What is life? People are born, grow up, live, meet, work, they die. Entire fuss of fusses and the fuss of every kind…

    There was a time when you were not, and soon again will not be. Only time is eternal. It generates in itself everything, and it destroys everything.

    All will pass… And you, too…

    There live in the light people who persistently want to be a little removed from the life passing by them. Deliberate calmness, restraint, accurate leisurely motions, regularity, calmness, calmness, calmness… This is the ILI.

    Everything flows, everything changes. But he knows -- how. Reading the book, he knows what will be written in a few lines. The first time it watches a film, it can predict how it will end. Yet he will hardly say.

    Sometimes it even sees images of what will occur in several seconds or minutes beyond the turning on a completely unfamiliar street. But again it will most likely be silent.

    And if they say something like: “Nothing good will come from this”. Unfortunately, it is almost always right. Optimistic forecasts he does not want to make, and similarly does not see. Indeed, after all, everything it will pass, so on what then to hope?
    All comes to those who know how to wait

    Now, it's time to describe the intuitive- the logical intro-faiththose, to [sirech] ILI. Behind the appearance of “impenetrable” calmness is hidden the thin, pensive, sensitive soul. It lives in another time, on its personal rhythm. It seems that it can govern its flow, slow down or accelerate its motion. Applying almost no efforts for this, it manages to not be late anywhere. Moreover, even if it decides to be late for a meeting, nevertheless it will hardly turn out to be late. The only exception - if this encounter is in no way necessary to it, but even then it arrives late on the same time interval, which does not change in the course of its entire life.

    The concept of fuss is not compatible with it. Never hurrying, it still manages to have time to do everything planned. It very much loves to reason on the themes connected in the course of time, on changes (in politics, in people's lives, in the weather): “Soon it will be autumn…”, “How quickly life passes, it seems only yesterday was the first call, and now final, "After twenty minutes will be the half-eighth”.
    If I say so, it means that it will be

    Strong intuition enables it to move away to the side when it begins “to smell of fried oil”, hence it rarely falls into trouble.

    Do you know the difference between the clever person and the wise? The clever can always cope with trouble, but the wise - will simply not fall into it.

    It has the strongest scent to everything which can become unsafe. It relates cautiously to any undertakings, it is critically disposed to the forecasts of apropos “rosy prospects”; will masterly pour out a tub of cold water on the enthusiast. It always warns others of the possible troubles and failures on their way. And most offensive of all, it almost always happens to be right!

    He knows the time required for one action or another, taking into account initial rockings, unplanned changes and failures. Moreover, it can fairly accurately predict how it can end. The latter fact causes it to be sometimes lazy to act (and who likes to read detective stories, if their outcome is known in advance).
    But you still exist?

    With the unfavorable psychological situation in the environment ILI it has a serious danger “to leave into itself”, into its dreams, into the invented world of whimsical fantasy, having completely removed from the needs of real life. It will become “silent”, locked and irresolute, there will be the increased interest in all predictions of Doomsday and the like. Benevolent attempt to reach the roots of this interest leads finally to the fact that takes out its latent desire “at least this all it ended to the white light, and it is faster”.

    But enough of the sad. ILI knows not only how to resignedly control the passing of time. It finely understands technology, work and designation of various mechanisms. It relates to technology as to the living being.

    It especially likes everything which works from the socket. ILI rapidly and easily it learns to examine electrical and electronic circuits, that also where it is necessary to include and “where the transistor has the third phase”. It can independently manage the simple breakdown in the television set or coffee mill and will then walk away proud and with dignity tell all fallen in the moment at hand, that it is now convenient to grind coffee. If it hears the answer: “Oh, it is fine! ”, then simply beams. Moreover, if they manage without it the following time in the similar situation of a breakdown it will take serious offense .
    Well, it is pleasant to this person to repair “[zhelezyaki]” - so do not deprive it of this pleasure!

    Special love of ILI - the computer. And this love is mutual. In it it works more rapidly, and it breaks less often. There are no precise data, of course, as yet, but is created impression, that at least fourth of all [stuchashchikh] on the keyboard and good half of programmer- systems analysts belong to this type. In order in the month to learn professionally to work on any “iron”, ILI only free access to the latter is necessary. And then it begins: “You work on [Paskakale]?” or “I at long last [apgreydil] my lout changed [materiyku]”.

    “In my future (if it will be) I do not think of myself without the machine”


    Not less ardently ILI can love automobiles. Many representatives of this type carefully cherish dream about its machine from a sufficiently early age. The prestigious automobile for ILI is the symbol of vital success, and dream of it - by unconscious index of the fact that it is ready to place high purposes to itself and to attain them.

    In my future (if it will be) I do not think of myself without the machine. Even if they find another means of transportation, I will nevertheless exert all efforts in order to possess machine. Specifically, here I to smog to be reflected itself. Men indeed of also our kind mechanism, therefore, we are similar. This will be not the garish, but spectacular on closer examination automobile, prepared some small, but with the old traditions firm, very individual. It will be always pure (inside and outside), with the powerful stereo-system: I love a good sound, its different combinations, synthesis, qualitative reproduction.

    The more quietly you proceed - the further you will be

    IN ILI the sufficiently interesting method of achievement of the objective. Someone from all forces rows to it, someone attempts to nail to the strange large steamship, someone raises ferro-concrete bridge. The flow, which auto will carry out it to the cherished purpose, the very same finds, and it should only be held in it and follow so that its ship it would not throw to the underwater stones, it did not tighten into the whirlpool, and also that would not become thin its bottom. Its efforts, according to the large calculation, are directed toward that in order to hold its floating craft in running order and in the correct course.

    And still: he never forgets, that all rivers sooner or later, but fall never in the sea on the name “nothing and”. Memento of mori - and it with the light heart rejects the tiresome career, the senseless run after the variable human glory, from the authority and dignity, if this can deprive its possibility to dream in that loved to armchair- rocker with the dear book in the hands…

    In the school or in the institute it most likely quiet [troechnik] or [nechestolyubivyy] [khoroshist]. Why to fuss, to be pulled to the first places, if in gold [seredinke] it is much calmer and more comfortable? For higher education it greatly does not strive. After the end of studies it hardly has the problems with job placement: usually ILI is selected reliable profession, it easily finds the well paid place and confident- leisurely it rises along the official stairs. It will hardly hammer together large state, but it will always be able to ensure to itself with its close one worthy life. At the same time it is sufficiently close-fisted, not love to expend money.
    [Pospeshay] slowly

    ILI especially individual, fitted out to its health measured off rhythm of labor and rest erects for itself. It can sit up to three hours of night at the display or on the vacations will arise each morning into [polchetvertogo] to go on fishing. If it this itself wants. But if it wants to sleep, then quietly it will fall asleep - at a lesson, in the streetcar, at the noisy picnic, on… military council.

    It almost cannot be forced to do what he does not want. In its quiet, calm unwillingness strange will simply sinks, it slips without the cohesion with its opposition, which completely is not. It will quietly “move aside”, without giving to opponent to enter with itself into the contact. And however be beaten - where you will sit down on it, there and you will descend. But this only when he - because of the visible by them one likely danger or because of its own laziness - does not want to make that the fact that they request it. In all remaining cases it voluntarily and willingly returns control of itself into the strange hands (leaving after itself the right of veto).
    I willingly follow someone else's will, if it is reasonable

    Moreover, increased demands impress it, especially when it is presented in the polite, “human” form and if in this case protect its own interests. In other people it is greatly drawn to qualities such as force, aggressiveness, the tendency to never surrender in the struggle against difficulties, and the inextinguishable desire to attain one's purpose. In the environment of such people he acquires confidence both in itself and in its future, it is “disclosed” towards life. Its mission in life it sometimes sees as warning of people about the likely dangers on their way in time. The same threat which he sees for himself is to fall on a Wednesday, where uncontrollable emotions reign.
    Emotions are gone

    In its opinion, people “[emotsionalyat]” only when they cannot attain the force of logical reasons. All questions must be solved quietly and structurally - so what with here screams and scandals? Perhaps “by [orom]” it is possible to convince interlocutor? Perhaps the force of voice - argument in the civilized dispute?

    ILI always tries to avoid (from the word “escape”) the situations, where conversations on the raised tones are possible , emotional dismantlings, ideological “visits”. Sometimes this position, a little [strausinaya], leads to an even larger incandescence of the emotions splashed out to it.
    Why does he cry?

    This aversion extends even to the ordinary cry (of pain, happiness, surprise, etc.). A remote into the subtitle puzzled- frightened question was sounded in the circus from one young representative of this type, when to the arena red clown jumped out with the deafening laughter.

    ILI's sense of humor is sufficiently peculiar: intellectual, thinned, but with the small attack on “cemetery” theme. For example, in the miniatures Of [zhvanetskogo] are frequent the jokes on this theme.

    People of this type are sufficiently erudite, although they do not boast of their knowledge. They have independent views and judgments about all events proceeding around, and about the standards and rules accepted in society T. p. From the participation in the intelligent debate on the free theme ILI as its collocutors, obtain the present pleasure. Its judgments are characterized by state of being unchained, globality, completeness and good attack of wisdom. By the way, it is confident, that in its opinion finds expression not so much its own, subjective view on the thing, as objective, accumulated by humanity during all previous centuries.
    Everyone must obey the laws, accepted in society

    The basic political credo of this type is a voluntary submission to all those laws (written and unwritten), which are accepted in the society. If someone they do not please themselves - if you please, let they change by legal methods, while if this is not obtained - let they are adapted or leave into other country. Moreover the authority of unwritten laws (i.e., the blessed by centuries traditions) for ILI stands higher than any codes. It sufficiently indifferently relates to its exterior view and, given to itself, it can barely follow itself. However, if for it one must leave “into the society”, thus it brings itself into order, trying to appear in the manner that this accepted: [nevyzyvayushche], accurately, is proper, and if means be sufficient - that it is stylish.

    ILI it is internally deeply democratic with entire external [otstranennosti], it does not divide people according to national, racial, political, religious or other other sign.

    The main thing so that the man would be good.

    In its policy draws the possibility to influence moral improvement or the economic development of society; it “[neideologichen]”. Yes, he will say that its country must be loved and to be proud of it, but also it will add: if there is for which. If, for example, it and nationalist, then very moderated.

    It is peaceful, it attempts not to enter into the conflicts, it calms down fighters. It has the very interesting method of the fight:

    I do not get involved in in the fights on the private venture, I try to avoid them. If position becomes entirely hopeless, then it is necessary to fight. But I for some reason fear, that I can damage the health of rival; therefore will press it so that it it will turn blue, and I will wait, until itself asks.

    It does not respect unprincipled people, those, who always adhere to “singularly accurate line”, and he manages to be turned havoc with her turnings to one hundred eighty degrees. It does not believe to people, which change the color of flag, provided to not lose the first place in the column. It is not inclined to create to itself idols.

    It does not love idlers; it considers labor as the necessary condition of a correct life. Labor for ILI is more likely right, than responsibility. Therefore it does not hesitate from any work, even the dirtiest. By its hands he wants to build the world in which it will be good to it and its close ones.

    Out of entire that mention above there are the things, which please me…

    Functional description

    First function: the intuition of the time

    Excellent understanding of the motion of time and possible course of events. Foresight of the future. Aggravated presentiment of dangers. Strong intuition. Skill to do everything in time and to wait for its. Sluggishness, the complete absence of fussiness, the skill to not meddle in trouble.
    Second function: the business logic

    Ability to find effective methods of fulfilling work. Tendency towards concrete labor. Tendency to adhere to the most effective methods. Love for the technology, the skill to work with various mechanisms. It prefers work with the visible result. [Masterovitost], work by hands. Organism presents technology true to life.
    Third function: [sensorika] of the sensations

    The aspiration to appear at the proper level in public, to bring its exterior view into correspondence with the conventional standards. Sometimes understanding the fact that it will not know how to ensure its personal comfort with its own efforts. Uncertainty in correspondence of its appearance “to the requirements” of those surrounding. Affected elegance, the internal desire “to live more simply”. Any estimation of its appearance is unpleasant.
    Fourth function: the ethics of the emotions

    Categorical aversion of emotional pressure. Fear before the manifestation of the emotional impetuosity of those surrounding. The tendency to avoid situations where heightened emotionalism is manifested. The unrealizable desire to live in the flat merry situations, where there are no sharp drops in the emotions. Restraint, demonstrative “withdrawal” from the cries and scandals. It completely ignores the emotionally painted requirements for itself.
    Fifth function: volitional [sensorika]

    The unconscious its own weakness in everything, concerning volitional pulse, insistence and purposefulness. Latent strong desire to follow another's reasonable will. Sympathies to strong and volitional people. Skill to be “transparent” for the undesirable external pressure. Reduction in the vital tone (up to the complete apathy) in the absence of external organizing and guiding force.
    Sixth function: the ethics of the relations

    Subconsious confidence in the importance of its own desires for those surrounding. The desire to live in the environment of “humane” and democratic people who can understand its interests. Latent faith in the priorities of moral values before the material. Rather rough politeness, ethical passiveness, thrust to the honest and strong relations.
    Seventh function: the intuition of the possibilities

    Unshakable confidence in the correctness of its understanding of the proceeding events. Strong criticality of all innovations. Subconsious tendency to track arising new possibilities. Skill to explain to other people the essence of their problems. Deep confidence in the objectivity of its opinion, a philosophical turn of mind.
    Eighth function: the logic of the relationships

    Silent persistent tracking of various information. Developed obscure logic. Skill to imperceptibly help people cope with their logical difficulties. Skill to give the explanation of the most complex (scientific) problems in the form accessible for other people. Erudition, cautious maneuverable logic
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    sigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    Been wondering whether I am an INFp rather than INTp, but people saying that INFps like attention, I find it unlikely.
    I believe there are different types of attention or should I say different attitudes toward attention.
    If the audience is expecting something concrete from you like in "Lead us to the greener pasture"... then the INFp might end up feeling shy and hate all this attention BUT if the audience's attitude is one of "unconditional admiration" like in "oh enlightened one please share your eternal wisdom with us"... then you will see the INFp light up and shine.

    Now regarding to speaking, I believe, as a rule, INFp have a tendency toward shyness and might not like the speaker posture. There are exceptions to this rule, at least from my own experience:
    1. The INFp transports the audience inside his world where he can control it. This could happen if the INFp knows the topic very very well (I could speak about the computer assistance in the selection of the breast implants anytime, anywhere) and if he manages to disregard the "status" of the audience, see them as peers, and focus on the subject at hand.
    2. Ethical subjects. If the subject is something that truly burns inside, I believe the INFp will bypass shyness, something like in "it doesn't matter if I make a fool of myself, this needs to be addressed!"
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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