Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: LII & speaking

  1. #1
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default LII & speaking

    Another issue to be addressed.


    It seems my speaking recently declined in quality, as I have become used to either typing responses quickly here online, or rapidly disclosing them to someone who already knows what I am talking about. However it must be noted to speak clearly and pay attention to formulating your thoughts completely before expressing them. Limit the amount of possibilities you see and intend to express... I am guilty of run on sentences that can continue into multiple directions. This leaves people wondering if I am finished, and if I am sure of what I said, which is of course the result I most wish to avoid.

    For whatever reason I believe this also has to do with emotional attachments to your thoughts.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  2. #2
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It has to do with ignoring Fe for the sake of Ne, I think. I have had a similar problem on occasion, and I suppose most Ne types do. Sometimes I find myself with a queue of ideas that I want to get out, and after stating each one, I essentially ignore the response. Yet it's easy for an INTj to go in the other direction and monitor his words so carefully as to not say anything at all.

    I think the best solution is to be confident that what you are going to say is important (in the context of the conversation), but not over-confident. The responses of others will guide you. (rationality)

    Perhaps another good strategy is to just get out a single important idea at a time, and then gauge your audience. Whether they are listening should be fairly obvious.

  3. #3
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    huh?

  4. #4
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's an INTj thing.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    interesting... i feel like Ni has the exact opposite problem. i have difficulty articulating my thoughts simply by what they are.

    to illustrate this, Ni thoughts (not necessarily accurately) can be considered as images. images cannot be accurately transcribed into words, hence the difficulty of actually expressing any insights.

    i can't really describe the sensation. maybe someone else will be more articulate.



    do other intuitives identify strongly with these?

  6. #6
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    interesting... i feel like Ni has the exact opposite problem. i have difficulty articulating my thoughts simply by what they are.
    This may be explained as objective vs. subjective perception.

    to illustrate this, Ni thoughts (not necessarily accurately) can be considered as images. images cannot be accurately transcribed into words, hence the difficulty of actually expressing any insights.

    i can't really describe the sensation. maybe someone else will be more articulate.
    My natural reaction to this when it happens IRL is that INTps just have messy thought processes (~Ti) and are unable to frame their thoughts in a way that others can understand, which from an Ne standpoint is always possible.

  7. #7
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    It's an INTj thing.
    actually it was smartass reply to this "Whether they are listening should be fairly obvious."

    heh sorry

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    interesting... i feel like Ni has the exact opposite problem. i have difficulty articulating my thoughts simply by what they are.
    This may be explained as objective vs. subjective perception.

    to illustrate this, Ni thoughts (not necessarily accurately) can be considered as images. images cannot be accurately transcribed into words, hence the difficulty of actually expressing any insights.

    i can't really describe the sensation. maybe someone else will be more articulate.
    My natural reaction to this when it happens IRL is that INTps just have messy thought processes (~Ti) and are unable to frame their thoughts in a way that others can understand, which from an Ne standpoint is always possible.
    Yes, that's one of the reasons INTps are seen as less cometent than they really are. Their thoughts processes are not messy, but there is a gap between the thoughts and the words used to express them, that sometimes seems impossible to bridge over. Some other types might deny the existence of such a gap, and this is a difference in views that can be seen in different schools in the philosophy of language.

  9. #9
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    interesting... i feel like Ni has the exact opposite problem. i have difficulty articulating my thoughts simply by what they are.

    to illustrate this, Ni thoughts (not necessarily accurately) can be considered as images. images cannot be accurately transcribed into words, hence the difficulty of actually expressing any insights.

    i can't really describe the sensation. maybe someone else will be more articulate.



    do other intuitives identify strongly with these?
    I believe you -- it makes a tremendous amount of sense in that intuition is your leading function and you would struggle searching for objects to communicate them. Where as I am monitoring the core/structure of whatever is going on, and countless possibilities could branch off from them.

    It's the same sort of process, just inverted. One produces with Te and has Ni base, the other Ne and has Ti base. (obviously). I have heard other INTps explain the same situation, Niffweed.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    USA.
    TIM
    INTj
    Posts
    4,497
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Niffweed, yes I experience what you said about not knowing how to explain things satisfactorily. I think the difference is that I have trouble accepting that i understand it if I am not able to articulate it, or feel more secure in my understanding of something, if I articulate it. I put importance on being able to describe something exactly or else I feel i have somehow done something wrong.

  11. #11
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    This may be explained as objective vs. subjective perception.
    I am now more certain about this, as I know ISFps who have significant trouble communicating their impressions as well. I always attributed it to weak logic, but that is not the case.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    This may be explained as objective vs. subjective perception.
    I am now more certain about this, as I know ISFps who have significant trouble communicating their impressions as well. I always attributed it to weak logic, but that is not the case.
    You are right about that. It is not equivalent to weak logic. It would be nice if you could explain that to Expat.

  13. #13
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,612
    Mentioned
    156 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    This may be explained as objective vs. subjective perception.
    I am now more certain about this, as I know ISFps who have significant trouble communicating their impressions as well. I always attributed it to weak logic, but that is not the case.
    You are right about that. It is not equivalent to weak logic. It would be nice if you could explain that to Expat.
    I should add that Ips (including niffweed, if I may use him as an example), when they find themselves unable to communicate something, usually just quietly give up and avoid the subject. They don't repeat what they said over and over again. Not that that means anything, of course.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    well, if there's some reason that i absolutely need to inform somebody else, i'll work out of my own mental muddle. it just takes a while to find the correct words.


    on a side note, god bless whoever created http://thesaurus.reference.com, the most important website of all time after yahoo and wikipedia.

  15. #15
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    speaking clearly is nice. I correct everyone elses speech in my head as they speak, but when I speak sometimes it's jumbled and mumbly.
    asd

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •