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Thread: ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

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    Default ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

    What's the best way to tell ESTp from ESFp ( subtype) in a work environment? I think I have to work with a person who is one of those but so far I can't tell which. First I thought ESFp but after a while I started to think perhaps ESTp because of certain things. However I'm still not sure. The person seems very professional but with a playful side too which quickly surfaces in non-professional situations, seems very good with people (especially getting to know new people, I'm not sure about long term contact yet) and kinda "feelery" but also very controlled. Curious fact: the person seems to quickly go from "hot" (meaning smiling and being friendly and informal) to "cold" (meaning being distant and cold and formal) in certain situations. This happens especially when superiors are around or someone need to be impressed etc. or when situation calls for strict professional attitude). Occasionally makes certain "inconsistency errors" even when trying to be very professional. Like using word "summer" when meant to use "spring" and this make the general "professional outlook" lack a bit every now and then (but rarely). Any quick hints to tell the difference? I might be Ni-dominant as I just loved the It might even be dual experience or just dual-seeking experience. The rest of the functions confuse me. ESFp or ESTp?

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    Default Re: ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

    Bump. I need some answer here too ISTp vs INTp and ENTp vs ENTj threads seems the to get all the attention

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    Default Re: ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

    No one is contributing What is wrong with this particular thread? Actually I'm not sure about Se-dominancy anymore. Could be ESFj too. Or even ISFj/ISTj but I doubt. Not ENFp or ENTp I think...has to be sensory.

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    you rock!

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    Too little info to really tell. I would tentatively say ESFp.

    A quick test: ESFps suck up to their superiors, ESTps call them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Too little info to really tell. I would tentatively say ESFp.

    A quick test: ESFps suck up to their superiors, ESTps call them out.
    ESFps don't suck up to anyone, ime.
    That statement was mostly based on this one mentally imbalanced ESFp I know. In general though, I think ESTps are more likely to be publicly confrontational (low Fi).

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    Do you think it could be ENFp trying to be all professional and effective and all? Sort of like Kim kind of ENFp I would still think ESFp or ESTp but ENFp was suggested as a possibility too which might make some sense I guess... I think I have managed to cut out all other types now but I have interacted with this person only a little so...uncertainties are still there.

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    Default Re: ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    What's the best way to tell ESTp from ESFp ( subtype) in a work environment?
    Not sure about an comparative analysis, but I think I've developed a pretty strong 'work friendship' with an ESFp.

    -Male, late-20's, father of two.
    -Needs to be constantly "on the go".
    -90% of the time constantly cheerful, mischevious; very people-oriented.
    -Loves to twist others' words/positions to his own benefit and their mockery, in a more or less good-natured fashion.
    -10% experiences very bleak moments, often as a result of the effects of poor leadership.
    -Has a love/hate relationship with bosses 'pushing him' - loves the challenge that a load of work can offer him, but needs some breathing room to operate.
    -Mockingly critical of others' emotional states, but is very vocal about his own. "God, you're a moody bastard!" he says to me, and two hours later is like, "God this job sucks. Tonight is awful, I just want to go home."
    -Tries to hide uneasy emotional states, but frequently unloads on whoever happens to be nearby.
    -Officially has an easy rapport with everyone (which I envy), then unofficially remarks to me how much he dislikes X individual.
    -Seems oblivious to the presence of leadership when expressing his (negative) emotional states.
    -Loves to comment on why certain processes are wrong, how they could be improved, to the point of overkill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Do you think it could be ENFp trying to be all professional and effective and all? Sort of like Kim kind of ENFp


    I relate to the bolded parts, fwiw:

    However I'm still not sure. The person seems very professional but with a playful side too which quickly surfaces in non-professional situations, seems very good with people (especially getting to know new people, I'm not sure about long term contact yet) and kinda "feelery" but also very controlled. Curious fact: the person seems to quickly go from "hot" (meaning smiling and being friendly and informal) to "cold" (meaning being distant and cold and formal) in certain situations. This happens especially when superiors are around or someone need to be impressed etc. or when situation calls for strict professional attitude). Occasionally makes certain "inconsistency errors" even when trying to be very professional. Like using word "summer" when meant to use "spring" and this make the general "professional outlook" lack a bit every now and then (but rarely).
    I cannot relate to the red part because I think I am professional in a casual way and that is pretty consistent, so I don't switch between very casual and very professional. I also don't see that in the ESFps I know. They also have this casual professionalism about them that really fits any situation. As for the mistakes, I do that when I am very nervous, but is that type-related?

    The difference between ESFps and ESTps is that ESFps are warmer and more comfortable with private talk. ESTps need to know you to talk about personal stuff, ESFp will be more open. They can have the same type of humor and air of aggression (for ESFp sensory subtype that is).
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Do you think it could be ENFp trying to be all professional and effective and all? Sort of like Kim kind of ENFp


    I relate to the bolded parts, fwiw:

    However I'm still not sure. The person seems very professional but with a playful side too which quickly surfaces in non-professional situations, seems very good with people (especially getting to know new people, I'm not sure about long term contact yet) and kinda "feelery" but also very controlled. Curious fact: the person seems to quickly go from "hot" (meaning smiling and being friendly and informal) to "cold" (meaning being distant and cold and formal) in certain situations. This happens especially when superiors are around or someone need to be impressed etc. or when situation calls for strict professional attitude). Occasionally makes certain "inconsistency errors" even when trying to be very professional. Like using word "summer" when meant to use "spring" and this make the general "professional outlook" lack a bit every now and then (but rarely).
    I cannot relate to the red part because I think I am professional in a casual way and that is pretty consistent, so I don't switch between very casual and very professional. I also don't see that in the ESFps I know. They also have this casual professionalism about them that really fits any situation. As for the mistakes, I do that when I am very nervous, but is that type-related?

    The difference between ESFps and ESTps is that ESFps are warmer and more comfortable with private talk. ESTps need to know you to talk about personal stuff, ESFp will be more open. They can have the same type of humor and air of aggression (for ESFp sensory subtype that is).
    I have to watch out for that. I'm not sure how much I will be interacting with this person though. Anyways I saw the "professional attitude" as sort of an act like "Now I'm in a very important situation so I'm gonna act all cold and formal and professional and not relate to anyone on a personal level". Then in non-work situation like during lunch the person is way more relaxed and playful and talks quite a lot (but perhaps a bit controlled still in a way) which was probably the real face. This hot-cold difference is clear in facial expressions too. When trying to be "formal" the facial expression is very formal. When relaxed smiles quite a lot. I haven't talked about any personal stuff yet really but the person has no problem coming to strangers and initiate small talk at least. It might be the ESTp "fake Fe" kind of thing because it can sort of "switch off" so easily. Or perhaps it is Fi...or reall Fe...umm...I have to see about that. The peculiar errors of choosing wrong words was something which I don't associate to ESTps.

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    Default Re: ESFp vs ESTp in a work environment

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Curious fact: the person seems to quickly go from "hot" (meaning smiling and being friendly and informal) to "cold" (meaning being distant and cold and formal) in certain situations.
    This seems an ESTP trait.
    They are the cameleons. They adapt quickly.

    ESFP are just always the happy people. (unless when they are really angry which they show really well)

    My bet if i would need to choose between ESFP and ESTP with only this information would be: ESTP

    If it's a girl i have some hints. maybe it helps to listen to their voice. most ESFP girls have a high pitched voice. ESTP have a more business like voice. Look at their clothes. Is it brightly colored?

    By the way, you said she would be a SE subtype. Then she is probably doing some sort of act most of the time.

    good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Too little info to really tell. I would tentatively say ESFp.

    A quick test: ESFps suck up to their superiors, ESTps call them out.
    ESFP are rebellious... The are kind however, maybe that looks like sucking up. But it isn't.

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    I don't know what this nonsense about types not being suckups is about. They, ESPECIALLY SEEs, have the potential to be the BEST suckups: they know where the power lies, and SEEs have the ethical side that helps them flatter/seduce/ingratiate. Being is not about having any kind of power; it's about recognizing and understanding it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    I don't know what this nonsense about types not being suckups is about. They, ESPECIALLY SEEs, have the potential to be the BEST suckups: they know where the power lies, and SEEs have the ethical side that helps them flatter/seduce/ingratiate. Being is not about having any kind of power; it's about recognizing and understanding it.
    I said IME (in my experience) ESFps don't suck up to anyone. The ones I know would rather die than do that.
    I can see both Gilly's and Diana's points -- I think one explanation is that what ESFps do (building a relationship with someone with Se as base function) may seem "sucking up" to outside observers, but they themselves would not see it that way because they are genuinely interested in building up a relationship with that particular person -- in that particular moment.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Sure, that's possible, but they definitely still suck up, and can be damn good at it.

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    On a side note, what's the difference between ESTp Ti subtype and ESTp Se subtype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    On a side note, what's the difference between ESTp Ti subtype and ESTp Se subtype?
    Se subtypes are louder and more obnoxious. Ti subtypes are more reserved, like FDG. (If that makes sense )

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    maybe another nice difference for guessing ESFP or ESTP is:

    ESTP are more agressive with words. They use the word asshole and such 10 times a day
    ESFP exaggarate thankfulness. They say: thank you, you are so wonderfull (with that big smile along)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    I don't know what this nonsense about types not being suckups is about. They, ESPECIALLY SEEs, have the potential to be the BEST suckups: they know where the power lies, and SEEs have the ethical side that helps them flatter/seduce/ingratiate. Being is not about having any kind of power; it's about recognizing and understanding it.
    please don't try to reason with those functions, rather use your experience with SEE in reality.
    it works better.

    but i agree, maybe from the view of outsiders they look like suckups. I know my uncle talks to all the bosses. But he does this to show that he's not submissive. He just says whatever the heck he wants to say. That is what he's proud off.

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    Hmm...I have not managed to spend much time with this person but my recent experience was a bit different and made me think this person is a rational type and perhaps after all an introvert. The person has such a strong "work personality" that it is hard to figure out the true type but I can't right now clearly decide between any of the Se-types and I'm getting a rational and feelery vibe. I don't think this one is an ENFp anyways. Has to be . I wonder if it could be ISFj after all with a very strong -sub. Right now I'm guessing ISFj (Se) but I have to get more experience to see behind all the . The ISFjs I think I have known have not been this...extroverted or . I wonder if in a leisurely context the introversion would be more clearly seen. The perceived "extroversion" might be an act to put on at work situation.

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    you've named aproximately 6 types in this topic.

    instead of looking at the functions, doesn't the person remind you of someone else of who you know the type already?
    That's a more reliabele way and faster way of typing.

    or ask about his hobby's (introverts like to read for example / extraverts like to spend much time with their friends)
    or ask what he wants to have for a job if he could choose anything (healthcare = NF / scientist = INT etc etc)

    there are so many way's to learn somebody's type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    you've named aproximately 6 types in this topic.

    instead of looking at the functions, doesn't the person remind you of someone else of who you know the type already?
    That's a more reliabele way and faster way of typing.

    or ask about his hobby's (introverts like to read for example / extraverts like to spend much time with their friends)
    or ask what he wants to have for a job if he could choose anything (healthcare = NF / scientist = INT etc etc)

    there are so many way's to learn somebody's type.
    I have very limited chance of interacting with this person especially in a unofficial setting where I could ask personal questions. Right now I'm thinking ISFj even though does seem somewhat different from the other ISFjs I've known (more extroversion, more Se). We'll see. I only interact with this person in official matters and very short period at a time currently. It is hard to make reliable observations

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    Looking at socionico.net VI pictures I would say ESFp >> ESTp or ISFj. I switch back to ESFp I didn't know they can be so..."together" and focused.

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