Temperaments

[CuriousSoul]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

[CuriousSoul]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

[Expat]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

[Expat]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

[Phaedrus]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

... which is a false version of Socionics. (Expat is just too polite to say that directly, CuriousSoul.)

[Phaedrus]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

... which is a false version of Socionics. (Expat is just too polite to say that directly, CuriousSoul.)

[implied]

Whichever you behave like when your brain chemistry is balanced and you're physically well.

...which is quite possibly EJ. How interesting.

I could be misinterpreting it, though.

i'd probably say the same for myself.

actually it might work like: IP generally when inert/balanced/kind of depressed, EJ and EP, change my mind. split on that one. EJ when really happy and "optimum" and everything is going well, EP when "freaking out" like expat said, i definitely know what you mean there. IJ i could see possibly when neurotic or when something is really really wrong and i have to be all "unflappable." but that is difficult and stressful for me and thus i have no idea how IJ people function. it is unimaginable to me, like anndelise said.

[implied]

Whichever you behave like when your brain chemistry is balanced and you're physically well.

...which is quite possibly EJ. How interesting.

I could be misinterpreting it, though.

i'd probably say the same for myself.

actually it might work like: IP generally when inert/balanced/kind of depressed, EJ and EP, change my mind. split on that one. EJ when really happy and "optimum" and everything is going well, EP when "freaking out" like expat said, i definitely know what you mean there. IJ i could see possibly when neurotic or when something is really really wrong and i have to be all "unflappable." but that is difficult and stressful for me and thus i have no idea how IJ people function. it is unimaginable to me, like anndelise said.

[Expat]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

... which is a false version of Socionics. (Expat is just too polite to say that directly, CuriousSoul.)

I thought it did not even have to be said.

CuriousSoul, would you care to explain what you mean? Do you object to the temperaments' precise definitions, or do you object to the very concept of temperaments? For instance, temperaments are said to be one of the best ways to differentiate mirrors, as in between ESFj and ISFp - same quadra, same functions in the blocks of the psyche, same club. Are you saying that an ESFj and an ISFp don't have clarly noticeably different temperaments? If so, what would be for you the best way of differentating an ESFj from an ISFp?

By the way, my understanding is that you typed yourself as ESFj according to Smilexian Socionics. Surely you realize that Smilingeyes considers temperaments to be a very central part of Socionics - perhaps the most central one?

[Expat]

I would not put too much faith in these temperaments.

I know, they are inconsistent with the version of Socionics you do put faith in.

... which is a false version of Socionics. (Expat is just too polite to say that directly, CuriousSoul.)

I thought it did not even have to be said.

CuriousSoul, would you care to explain what you mean? Do you object to the temperaments' precise definitions, or do you object to the very concept of temperaments? For instance, temperaments are said to be one of the best ways to differentiate mirrors, as in between ESFj and ISFp - same quadra, same functions in the blocks of the psyche, same club. Are you saying that an ESFj and an ISFp don't have clarly noticeably different temperaments? If so, what would be for you the best way of differentating an ESFj from an ISFp?

By the way, my understanding is that you typed yourself as ESFj according to Smilexian Socionics. Surely you realize that Smilingeyes considers temperaments to be a very central part of Socionics - perhaps the most central one?

[CuriousSoul]

@Expat
I disagree with the following theory.

I read of Pavlov's description for temperaments :

Ej : Strong, balanced, mobile
Ij : Strong, balanced, inert
Ep : Strong, not balanced
Ip : Weak

That's quite graphic, isn't that ?

I think this Temperament Translation is probably, by and large correct, but in my humble opinion often times not particularly useful for typing oneself at least. What Smilingeyes wrote about the temperaments was quite clever too. In practise I just try to combine different models and theories to build my own hodge-podge model of socionics that corresponds to reality as I see it as closely as possible. I recommend the same to others. There is no scientifically proven standard version of socionics.

[Phaedrus]

I think this Temperament Translation is probably, by and large correct, but in my humble opinion often times not particularly useful for typing oneself at least.

How shall we understand you here? I think both Expat and I agree with you that that Temperament Translation is a rather good explanation of the temperaments, but I would really like to know what you think of your own temperament in relation to what is described there. My firm opinion is that you now must think that you have an EJ temperament and fit that description of the EJ temperament. But you have mostly tested as INFP in the past, haven't you? And how is that possible if you have an EJ temperament? You can't seriously think that you fit the description of the IP temperament, can you?

[Animal]

Ep - when I'm happy and among healthy, well-adjusted people other than my dual
Ip - when in the company of my dual, or when lethargic (which I am increasingly often... I think there might be something wrong with me)
Ij - when among poisonous people
Ej - when in the company of my identical

Although, taking this into account:

2. EP, Extroverted irrational (flexible-laid back temperament)

Energy exchange. Highly dependant on external information. They are calm when there’s no need to use energy, but they switch on with full power when they need to be active. It’s very difficult for them to keep energy expansion at a high level for a longer period of time. In order to have flexible-laid back temperament, people have to be able to do many activities at the same time. (For example J.Caesar, who was able to read, write and talk at the same time)

I guess Ep fits overall.

[Expat]

I think that thread CuriousSoul quoted, with descriptions that Kristiina found, is a good, if a bit exaggerated, introduction to the temperaments. Once you learn to notice them - and it takes observing the person a bit - I think they get very clear.

[aestrivex]

Ij - when among poisonous people

exactly what does that mean?

[Animal]

Basically people I dislike, lol.

[CuriousSoul]

How shall we understand you here? I think both Expat and I agree with you that that Temperament Translation is a rather good explanation of the temperaments, but I would really like to know what you think of your own temperament in relation to what is described there. My firm opinion is that you now must think that you have an EJ temperament and fit that description of the EJ temperament. But you have mostly tested as INFP in the past, haven't you? And how is that possible if you have an EJ temperament? You can't seriously think that you fit the description of the IP temperament, can you?

I just had to quote Diana.

First, the 4 letters are the least important, least meaningful, and worst way to determine anything. Here's a nice case: I chose I, N, T, J as most likely, took tests, tested as an INTj, identified with the type descriptions I read, look IJ through VI, found that the intertype relations descriptions are so flexible that any number of relationships could easily fit if I wanted them to, have Ij temperament, etc. However, I'm clearly NOT an INTj.

I could make a case for INTj. Maybe I'd even convince myself that I was INTj. Everything is flexible enough to fit. But it doesn't. Why doesn't it fit if every little piece can fit? Because there are connections and nuances, and more to it. And that's what you're missing. The letters are just a label, and a misleading one at that. For instance imagine a puzzle made of all square pieces. You can make them all fit however you'd like, but in only one way do they come together to make a complete picture. Just because pieces fit doesn't mean they are completing the picture. I wasn't sure on which of two types I was for quite awhile, and then finally I was able to say, okay everything fits, this is the one I am. But is it the whole picture? No, it's not, and no type can ever be the whole picture and fit perfectly for any person imo, but it's the best picture I've been able to come up with so far within socionics.

So, even if all the pieces seem to fit, if the picture seems off, distorted, like things are in the wrong place, maybe it's time to look at how they need to be rearranged. And if you believe that choosing 4 letters means much of anything at all in that case, you really do not understand what you're doing.

Due to Forer effect and many other things, I do not think is possible to judge oneself with the level of objectivity that you seem to think.
I found Rick most insightful too.

Most often extratims react to other extratims' attempts to open them up and get to know them better with indifference or hostility concealed under a layer of tactfulness - especially if they sense the other person is treating them like an introvert. Hence, to have a stable relationship two extratims need to make a habit of talking about external things and avoid trying to "build a relationship" with the other by getting too personal. A possible exception is relations of activation, where partners are often able to help resolve each other's problems through direct intervention (without asking permission). Most often, relationships between two extratims lack "glue" and seem to have little that keeps them together.
Getting to Know Introtims and Extratims

There are many definitions of extraversion and introversion and there is only partial overlap between them.
The type emerges most clearly in interaction with other people and for me ESFJ still seems the best fit.
There are no simple be all end all answers available, if you think you have found the perfect match, think again.

[Phaedrus]

The type emerges most clearly in interaction with other people and for me ESFJ still seems the best fit.

So you fit the description of the EJ temperament? You think that you have an EJ temperament, don't you?