Something just occurred to me

[Creepy-Diana]

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[FDG]

What's a Fe argument, if I may ask?

[Creepy-Diana]

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[FDG]

What's a Fe argument, if I may ask?

An appeal to not argue usually, lol. Um, well, for instance an ISFp I knew could always convince an ENTp to do something by telling them that other people would feel bad or hurt if they didn't - that they needed to conform to tradition and expectations, not rock-the-boat sort of thing - it's hard to explain, but along those lines.

Ah yeah, you mean bullshit, gotcha

[Kristiina]

I'm not sure if I understand the thread correctly, but I want to paraphrase one ILE:

"I can't stand those INFjs. They are so sly! They are such diplomatic, they are so sly. They never tell you what they really mean! They start playing with your head, wanting you to figure them out. If I were to call an INFj at 5am to say random things, he would just tell me, "it's not nice to call so late" just to hint to me that they are dissatisfied. They say diplomatic things to subtly make me feel guilty, but they won't just come out and tell me how they feel. I can sense when people start manipulating me like that and it's very annoying."

Fi people manipulate Fe people and Fe people manipulate Fi people.

[FDG]

I'm not sure if I understand the thread correctly, but I want to paraphrase one ILE:

"I can't stand those INFjs. They are so sly! They are such diplomatic, they are so sly. They never tell you what they really mean! They start playing with your head, wanting you to figure them out. If I were to call an INFj at 5am to say random things, he would just tell me, "it's not nice to call so late" just to hint to me that they are dissatisfied. They say diplomatic things to subtly make me feel guilty, but they won't just come out and tell me how they feel. I can sense when people start manipulating me like that and it's very annoying."

Fi people manipulate Fe people and Fe people manipulate Fi people.

Seems to be very obvious to me that people shouldn't call others at 5am. So even if the INFj were to reply, he should still know that it's not nice, by default, without even asking. Most things that are not nice to do are actually obviously not nice, in the sense that envisioning their consequences over other people shows how they are going to do harm.

[Slacker]

That's a fair statement. I wrote about my INFj sister in Delta "INFj gone bad" and she punishes people by subtly slighting them. All the time. Fi types can be meanies too.

[Ms. Kensington]

yeah it's sort of exciting to begin to see where people with your weak areas, or places you don't think about, are coming from.

Socionics has been useful to me in this way. But sometimes a little damaging too. If you try to see things from every side you can sometimes become dysfunctional. So I'm trying to take what i can to be a better person, blah blah......

[Ms. Kensington]

That's a fair statement. I wrote about my INFj sister in Delta "INFj gone bad" and she punishes people by subtly slighting them. All the time. Fi types can be meanies too.

lol i always thought INFjs could be so so cold. haha!

[UDP]

yeah it's sort of exciting to begin to see where people with your weak areas, or places you don't think about, are coming from.

Socionics has been useful to me in this way. But sometimes a little damaging too. If you try to see things from every side you can sometimes become dysfunctional. So I'm trying to take what i can to be a better person, blah blah......

indeed.

[Kristiina]

I'm not sure if I understand the thread correctly, but I want to paraphrase one ILE:

"I can't stand those INFjs. They are so sly! They are such diplomatic, they are so sly. They never tell you what they really mean! They start playing with your head, wanting you to figure them out. If I were to call an INFj at 5am to say random things, he would just tell me, "it's not nice to call so late" just to hint to me that they are dissatisfied. They say diplomatic things to subtly make me feel guilty, but they won't just come out and tell me how they feel. I can sense when people start manipulating me like that and it's very annoying."

Fi people manipulate Fe people and Fe people manipulate Fi people.

Seems to be very obvious to me that people shouldn't call others at 5am. So even if the INFj were to reply, he should still know that it's not nice, by default, without even asking. Most things that are not nice to do are actually obviously not nice, in the sense that envisioning their consequences over other people shows how they are going to do harm.

When someone does something that is so obviously wrong, people normally speak their mind. "Why the hell did you wake me up for that?! I want to sleep!". The point is that a Fi type wouldn't want to say anything to hurt the other person, so he'd be all diplomatic and shit. He also said that he can handle the Fe kind of manipulating because with Fe people you can easily tell what they're doing. "Tell me I'm pretty." in stead of subtle hinting.

I remember you having a really big reaction to the idea of being manipulated. Maybe you were talking about the subtle Fi tricks. Maybe it's just one aspect of Fi PoLR.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Logos]

that I found interesting. I'm always amazed at how people can "fall for" Fe arguments. But then someone accused Expat of "brainwashing" people, and it got me thinking. I put more weight on Te arguments because they make the most sense to me, they're spoken in my language. Other people seem to what I consider fall for or being manipulated by Fe, but perhaps they are just putting the most weight on that input (whether argument or otherwise) because it's in their natural language.

I'm always amazed at how people can "fall for" Fi arguments. But then someone seemed to imply that Fe people are brainwashable, and it got me thinking. I put more weight on Ti arguments because they make the most sense to me, they're spoken in my language. Other people seem to what I consider fall for or being manipulated by Fi, but perhaps they are just putting the most weight on that input (whether argument or otherwise) because it's in their natural language.

Now, with what are we left?

[FDG]

I have an idea.

We classify manipulation as "manipulation" and we do not try to associate it with Fi or Fe.

[Logos]

I have an idea.

We classify manipulation as "manipulation" and we do not try to associate it with Fi or Fe.

And that is a novel idea at that!

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Creepy-Diana]

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[Exodus]

Fe is like 0% argument, and Ti is like 100% argument. Te and Fi are somewhere in-between.

[mikemex]

Fi is more about using the arguments of others, so that it seems reasonable or not pretty much depends on whose arguments are those.

A well educated Fi person can put everyone on the ground, because it will always be closer to the truth to take into account many different opinions than to rely on self judgments.

[aestrivex]

Fi is more about using the arguments of others, so that it seems reasonable or not pretty much depends on whose arguments are those.

A well educated Fi person can put everyone on the ground, because it will always be closer to the truth to take into account many different opinions than to rely on self judgments.

FI IS WAY BETTER THAN ALL OTHER FUNCTIONS I AGREE I LIKE MOZZARELLA CHEESE

[Logos]

that I found interesting. I'm always amazed at how people can "fall for" Fe arguments. But then someone accused Expat of "brainwashing" people, and it got me thinking. I put more weight on Te arguments because they make the most sense to me, they're spoken in my language. Other people seem to what I consider fall for or being manipulated by Fe, but perhaps they are just putting the most weight on that input (whether argument or otherwise) because it's in their natural language.

I'm always amazed at how people can "fall for" Fi arguments. But then someone seemed to imply that Fe people are brainwashable, and it got me thinking. I put more weight on Ti arguments because they make the most sense to me, they're spoken in my language. Other people seem to what I consider fall for or being manipulated by Fi, but perhaps they are just putting the most weight on that input (whether argument or otherwise) because it's in their natural language.

Now, with what are we left?

We're left with my point Logos. That's what I'm getting at. It's a matter of perspective. When someone sees another person putting more weight on something they do not put the same kind of weight on they feel like that person is being "brainwashed" and it can be with any function at all.

Your point was never stated until now.

[Joy]

We all manipulate in some manner. We just do it in different ways in regards to different things.