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Thread: Why Duality is better than Mirror relations?

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    Default Why Duality is better than Mirror relations?

    I still have tremendous difficulty understanding why dual relations are better than mirrors. Some maintain that the so-called magnetic effect of duality takes a while to manifest itself (as Jarno mentioned in the semi-dual post), and that it may be easier to bond with other types at first, but regardless, I feel that mirror relations are the most fulfilling and satisfying because both types share ego block functions, allowing for greater understanding and shared desires. Where am I going wrong?

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    The issue is that there are weak areas for you where you feel helpless, and your dual is naturally strong in those areas and can take care of them for you. And you naturally take care of your dual's weak areas where he/she feels helpless and wants help. Mirrors have the same weak areas as you so they can't help you, and they have the same desire to have those needs filled and you're unable to help them.

    I think if there's an outside source for those areas relationships between mirrors can be great. I know lots of seemingly very happy married mirror couples. But they definitely have more conflict than my husband and I have. Usually over who is going to take care of whatever the problem areas are. For instance, my ENFp/INFj friends fight over who has to do the finances. Neither of them wants to deal with that. I don't think they're going to break up over it or anything, but it is a source of some conflict.
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    Thanks for your response . Though I understand the protective and complementary effects of duality, I don't understand the stimulating effects. When I say stimulating, I'm referring to how dual interactions in and of themselves (i.e. talking, empathizing, engaging in mutually satisfying activities) would be more fulfilling than those of other intertype interactions, specifically mirror (or semi-dual. activity, and benefit in some cases). I also don't see in duality the kind of deep understanding and intense conversation that exists within mirror relations (perhaps I'm just speaking from experience). Lastly, I see successful mirror couples everywhere, but I don't see many dual couples. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.

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    My husband and I don't generally have intense conversation as he isn't much of a talker. Although sometimes when there's an issue we're both interested in, we will talk about it quite a bit.

    First - not all duals are going to get along. You'd have to have similar views or goals or whatever. You wouldn't all of a sudden like someone who had a very different view of life just because that person was a dual. We do have very similar views on things and similar goals so we don't personally have any problems in that regard but I think sometimes it gets overlooked.

    Each partner in a dual pair gets something different. For instance, my ISTp husband gets interesting things to do through me because I hate to stick around the house all the time. I get calmness and emotional stability from him, which is very valuable to me. I help him understand his relationships with people, and he helps me keep day-to-day stuff up. If he didn't do this stuff for me, I'd be anxious about it. If I didn't take care of his issues, he'd be bored or something.

    I used to live with my INFj sister - not a romantic relationship obviously but we were in a situation where we had to share some responsibilities. We fought over who should have kept track of when such and such a bill got paid. We fought about what bills were whose. We fought about the washing machine not working and how we were going to handle it. We fought about shoveling the driveway. Did we do some fun things? Sure we did. But we also couldn't take care of ourselves adequately.

    My husband has a good friend who is ESTj. They like to do projects with each other and they have a great deal of fun, but they seem to have some level of competition. Like who is more techincally skilled and who can score the best deal. They have fun doing projects but it isn't all roses. There isn't that kind of competition between duals because they each have different areas they're in charge of and the other person doesn't step on their turf, and their dual gives them awe and thanks for taking care of those areas which makes the partner feel good.

    I have an ESTj/ISTp couple as neighbors too. They seem to have trouble getting to know all of the rest of our neighbors and getting involved in neighborhood activities. But, see, this is a natural thing for me to take care of so if I hear something is going on I make sure they know about it and are included. If they didn't have someone who naturally took care of that, they'd either be left out a lot of the time or they'd fight over whose fault it was. Or both. Or maybe they'd mope. Or maybe they'd just be bored, or read more or watch more TV or something. LOL. I don't know. They'd have fewer "mutually satisfying activities" anyway, as they both seem to really like these things and weren't doing much of it before I introduced them to everyone.

    Duality isn't "deep understanding". In fact, I seldom understand my husband. But if I did really get him he wouldn't be as interesting and I wouldn't have as much fun with him anyway. I like to have female friends to deeply understand and to have long conversations about things with, but I want a partner who takes care of me and needs me to take care of him. I don't find "deep understanding" to be important in a romantic relationship at all. I'm have had a couple of boyfriends in my life I understood pretty well but it isn't that interesting to always know what someone is going to want to do or how they'll react to things.

    Duals supposedly don't really notice each other at first, so it is definitely possible you haven't seen as many dual couples as other couples.

    I'm throwing out examples more than I'm explaining but I hope it helps. In my opinion, mirrors and identicals make great friends but not ideal romantic partners. Although I know enough happy mirror couples to think it can't really be bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Duality isn't "deep understanding". In fact, I seldom understand my husband. But if I did really get him he wouldn't be as interesting and I wouldn't have as much fun with him anyway. I like to have female friends to deeply understand and to have long conversations about things with, but I want a partner who takes care of me and needs me to take care of him. I don't find "deep understanding" to be important in a romantic relationship at all. I'm have had a couple of boyfriends in my life I understood pretty well but it isn't that interesting to always know what someone is going to want to do or how they'll react to things.
    Thanks for this insight it's true. I tend to express duality in terms of "deep understanding" -- when I talk to an ISFj, the thought that comes to my mind most often is "oh, someone who understands me, someone sane" but yes that's probably characteristic to Te-Fi rational duality, not to Ne-Si irrational duality. So duality provides what you most need from the partner, which is not necessarily understanding. I can see how a Ne EP would find deeply understanding someone as boring while, of course, that kind of "boredom" is closer to what a Se IJ wants.

    As for mirror couples, I think they are very common and successful (my parents were an ISFp-ESFj mirror couple) because, being of the same quadra and the same club, common interests lead to an easy first acquaintance, and the same quadra leads to easy general relations, however, you have conflicting temperaments and you don't really help each other, as Slacker Mom said.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    That's a good point too. Someone here once said he didn't like the idea of duality because my relationship sounded boring and stagnant. Or something like that. But the point is that each dual relationship gives the dual pair what they need, so his dual relationship wouldn't look like mine anyway. My dual partner calms me but his would energize and activate him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Someone here once said he didn't like the idea of duality because my relationship sounded boring and stagnant. Or something like that. But the point is that each dual relationship gives the dual pair what they need, so his dual relationship wouldn't look like mine anyway. My dual partner calms me but his would energize and activate him.
    Unless I was mistaken, that was science as magic, and I think someone (Joy?) made precisely this same point -- if he's INTj, what he wants from a relationship is "energizing" and, on his own, it does get "stagnant", so what he needs is precisely someone to activate him with . But not everyone dislikes what sounds "boring and stagnant".

    Someone else (I forget who) also made the point that "manipulation" was necessary otherwise you'd have "stagnation" -- yes, if you're surrounded by Ti IJs.

    The general point (also for me) is really to stop assuming that others want/need the same as you do.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    well, i still dont think Fe activation is the same as a particular type of understanding. Feeling someone is sane or feeling that the relationship is smooth is not the same as the person having this type of understanding. My understanding of the theory currently is that it's embedded in the theory that your dual won't share that understanding with you. That's why they need you to provide it for them. We can sort of nitpick it but at the end of the day your dual is never providing you with info for your ego block, they are providing info to feed it. For me personally someone doesn't "get it" solely if they respond exactly the way I want them to. They get it if they get it the same way that I do.


    Duality is the most complimentary relation. A relation is how two people work together. A best relation is one that allows maximum flow of communication between two people. Communication is receipt and delivery of information. Whether or not that is better in other respects to a mirror relation is for you to decide.

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    Mirror relations are great, but they just don't give you that "i found my soulmate" feeling that you get when you are with your dual.

    It doesn't give the feeling of protection. Nor of energy, nor of absolute trust, nor true love, nor....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    My husband and I don't generally have intense conversation as he isn't much of a talker. Although sometimes when there's an issue we're both interested in, we will talk about it quite a bit.
    My ISTp ex and I were actually constantly talking. We went on road trips a lot and could talk for 15 hours straight. We are both very interested in politics and current events and such things and he is extremely knowledgeable because he never forgets what he sees on the news (so he has 20 years of evening news stored in his brain). I miss the conversations we had. So yes, a common interest is needed, but when it's there and ISTp feels comfortable around you, he can talk your ear off. :wink:
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    I remember the stupid discussion about replacing religion with science. And it's stupid because science and religion are about very different things.

    That's why I would recommend you stop thinking about socionics as your cook recipe for happiness. It doesn't work that way.

    If you really want to be happy, there is philosophy. There are a lot of person who have analyzed the problem before and found some answers that you might find useful.

    Epicure, for example, once said that happiness is not a positive state in which you get everything you want, but rather, the absence of all those things which cause pain, both physically and mentally. So your dual can make you happy simply because he relieves you from what causes you pain.

    So the problem about people is not that they can't make their own happiness, but because they don't know what happiness is in the first place.

    Among all virtues, Epicure said that the most important is friendship. Whatever your dual can't give you, you can get from your friends, and thus life is complete.
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    So your dual can make you happy simply because he relieves you from what causes you pain.
    This sounds reasonable.

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