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Thread: how much does your personality determine your identity?

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    Default how much does your personality determine your identity?

    This is admittedly a complicated question. And i guess i could address explaining it by asking two further questions:

    what do you consider your personal identity? and, how much/in what ways do your mental proclivities determine your decisions?

    i feel like the other factors people list as affecting relationships--economic status, education, religion, etc-- don't really address this question

    er maybe they do though? The kind of answer I'm looking for is more of the process that goes into decision making before they even have the opportunity to manifest in religion or other demographic labels.. if we said that they'd indeed affect your identity..

    If this is unclear just respond to the subject line

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    I believe that there are 2 major parts to how you are: nature and nurture.

    Nature is mostly made up from the type you are. This has to to with how you see and interact with the world around you, how you process information and how you react to diffrent situations/stimulie, etc. This probably makes up the bulk of it (%60 or so). Also, other genetics and traits passed down from your parents mold this.

    Nurture is where you personality comes from. It is influenced by your enviorment, experiences, beliefs, upbrings, morals, knowledge, etc. Your personality is the part that can be changed/evolved over time. This is the "mask" that you wear on top of your type.

    So, I think personality does make up a good deal of your "identity", but the way you travel through the world has to do with your inborn type.

    (Some people also believe that you "spirt" has an affect on "who you are" in addition to nature and nurture, but I'll hold my opinions on this for now.)
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    nah, dont hold back . let it all out

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    I fail to see how one's spirit could be distinguishable from one's "nature."

    I'm of the opinion though that the nature vs. nature scenario is too simplistic; at some point in time, one develops, because of nature, a CRYSTALLIZED set of pyschological characterstics which CANNOT be changed. So, in essence, the common view that traits which are caused by one's enviornment are inherently fluid, as in, they can be changed, is a flawed one.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    No, I believe in the nurture part too. I thinks it's very possible that nature plays a FAR more important role, though.

    I know two LIE guys, and they seem exactly the same in every way. They even laugh, smile, and look a like. The diffrence between them is that one is very liberal and one is *very* conservative. They have completley opposing beliefs, yet are the same in about every other way and are still great friends.

    "Beliefs" is just one of those "influenced by your enviorment" things.

    I fail to see how one's spirit could be distinguishable from one's "nature."
    It can't, it's based off of pure faith.

    (I feel another long debate starting here :wink: .)
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    "I know two LIE guys, and they seem exactly the same in every way. They even laugh, smile, and look a like. The diffrence between them is that one is very liberal and one is *very* conservative. They have completley opposing beliefs, yet are the same in about every other way and are still great friends. "

    And I know two people of the same type who DON'T seem exactly the same in every way. What's your point?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I think it depends on the type. Some types are probably more likely to gravitate toward certain characteristics and beliefs, where as others are very open and more likely to be influenced by their environment.

    I think it's interesting that it was brought up that two people with the same type had very opposing views. I think the key there is that they both had strong political stances verus those of us who are a bit more apathetic.
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    All though the "nature" part seems to be the same, they have opposing beliefs.

    Beliefs= from enviorment.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    "I think it depends on the type. Some types are probably more likely to gravitate toward certain characteristics and beliefs, where as others are very open and more likely to be influenced by their environment. "

    I think you're right; I can't really imagine a conservative ENTp, especially a stringent one.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Do you see my point though? Another type in the same enviroment may not have ended up with such strong political views. I am suggesting that their types determined their intensity in their stance more than it did what their actual stance is.

    I, for example, am Libertarian. I understand that this country could never be run by a Libertarian because people are just too into picking sides. I think that the two party system in this country is ludicrous and simplistic and I know that politics is too much big business for what the people to want to matter much more than in determining how the products are packaged and marketed, particularly in this administration. (By products I mean canadites.) The party that's better at marketing wins. It has nothing to do with what most people believe it does, and I just can't pick a side because I believe that both are just the result of intelligent businessmen knowing that people need to identify with a group. That's why organized religion is so popular. People like using these things to define themselves. They don't like being open.

    Ummmmm I realize I'm treading on dangerous ground here... I'm going to stop...
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    "That's why organized religion is so popular. People like using these things to define themselves. They don't like being open. "

    I'm pretty sure RMCNew is religious, and he's an ENTp. I don't see the intensity of views permeating into his beliefs.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Okay.......................................

    I do believe in the Christian God, but IMO Christians (as well as other religions) enjoy having their docterines a lot more than I. I believe a lot of things that a lot of Christians don't, and vise versa. It seems (form my perspective) that they're too quick to say, "The Bible means THIS, we're right and you're wrong!" Then people want to choose a club to belong to and stop thinking.

    I believe that the Bible must be taken in context. If it wasn't intended to be taken in context, why would we have been given Ten Commandments, or ten absolute rules? The fact that there were ten absolute rules assigned implies, in my mind, that much of the rest of the Bible was meant to be taken as the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

    I'm suprised that my one religious statement was right away picked out of the political paragraph... lol

    Anyways, I am just saying that I feel it wisest to use the Bible as a document that was written to different cultures in a far different era, and allow the Holy Spirit to show me how it applies to my life instead of joining a group with a set of their own "I think the Bible meant this" and holding it as absolute.
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    elbow tchaikovsky freezer burn

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    I agree with Joy ... there are far too many people who have a subjugative view of religion [Christianity] and it gets them no where.

    Heck, the only reason the ten commandments were defined down in the first place was because the people were acting like spiritual babies and needed some sort of guidance. But even so, it was never intended for them to stay there in that condition. Instead of going forwards the people slipped backwards and compensated with more defining of the law
    and constant subjugation with an external locus.

    Then Jesus comes along preaching and teaching an internalized locus of control;even using himself as a example of a man who naturally follows the law, and they want to kill him. Figures ...

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    My belief determines my identity, not my personality.

    "I think, therefore I am."

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    *looks at discussion of economic factors*

    *chews gum*

    hello Baby, sure you can call me anything you want.

    I suppose you're getting more to what I had in mind.

    Here is a quote from you:

    "Furthermore, we are all exposed to varying degrees of hormones and conditions in the prenatal stages that have a great influence on our behavior and appearance.

    I, however, think that personality is far too complex and far too contrived to be scribed to mere genetics and biology <- our genetic and biological makeup will certainly predispose us to certain conditions, but they do not neccesarily lead to those conditions. We may have a gene (or set of genes, as many things must line up in order for it to occur) that predisposes us to depression, but unless in our lifetime the conditions for those genes to take effect are met, we will not become depressed. I feel type is a very useful thing that helps desribes various predispositions when they take place. But, unless in our lives we are called to act on those predispositions, they may not come true for us."

    i also think type, if we grant it exists can be thought of as a disposition.. but then its like a disposition towards what? towards behaviors, or psychological attitudes? then, as mysticsonic raised, what is the distinction between something other than biology (this includes psychology)-- and i ask this because you say you think that identity/personality is much more than genetics/biology--so let's call whatever else there may or may not be, a "spirit". so if yousay that there is a "spirit" then this isthen outside of psychological attitudes and outside ofbehavior.

    the other posts talked about the possibilityof factors being unequal, which i also gravitate towards. there might be a huge pull of psychological disposition on how you understand yourself,etc. but the question remains if there isn't another factor there in the gap between disposition and action..in this case the action of being-- (ones identity) is not clear!

    so then i go back to your example about a depressive gene. Youare likely to develop the condition of depression but may or may not become depressed if it's not "activated" by outside sources (environment)? Im not sure how to apply this to personality type.

    Do you say that you have a disposition to have certain psychological states? Does that mean belief? or feeling? or ifsomething else, then do you mean you can activate this set of dispositions to become a belief? and if it is not activated it is what joy calls an apathetic person?

    anyone?

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    I'm just going to throw this out for anyone to discuss: how do you think spirit or "soul" effects the person (if at all)?
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    Since I'm highly sceptical of the existence of the soul, I'm going to have to say it doesn't affect us at all.

    I belong to a physicalistic school of thought in relation to the study of the mind, with an emphasis on neurobiology.

    If everything goes right, that's what I'm going to major in.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    by the way Mystic, my Dad is a Neuroscientist (if the thought of that even interest you at all).
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Since I'm highly sceptical of the existence of the soul, I'm going to have to say it doesn't affect us at all.

    I belong to a physicalistic school of thought in relation to the study of the mind, with an emphasis on neurobiology.

    If everything goes right, that's what I'm going to major in.
    The soul is just someone's existance [how one exists in a physical realm], so saying it does not exist is like saying that nothing really exist, which makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.

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    "The soul is just someone's existance [how one exists in a physical realm], so saying it does not exist is like saying that nothing really exist, which makes absolutly no sense whatsoever."

    That's YOUR definition of the soul; most people's conception of the soul is an immaterial "I" that exists within the spiritual realm, which is what I'm sceptical of.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    "The soul is just someone's existance [how one exists in a physical realm], so saying it does not exist is like saying that nothing really exist, which makes absolutly no sense whatsoever."

    That's YOUR definition of the soul; most people's conception of the soul is an immaterial "I" that exists within the spiritual realm, which is what I'm sceptical of.
    Actually, no it is not just my definition ...

    However, within the context of your last statement, I tend to agree with you. But, I think that belief is more of a misconception than a fallacy in regards to the soul.

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    I'm quite certain that your belief is held by many others, but I fail to see the significance of it; what's the sense of calling it a soul? Ockham's Razor: do not posit pluarlity without neccessity. Of course, I could see why you would posit such a notion if it is an attempt to rectify, or maintain, youre religious beliefs, which in case the notion WOULD be a neccessity. It is not in my case, however.

    So, from now on RMC, let us know that when I refer to the soul and you refer to the soul, we are speaking of different concepts.

    And how'd you get logged out RMC? You just did that whole "log-in twice" thing a few minutes ago.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    So, in other words, it would be rediculous to say the soul does not exist on the account that people have a misconception about it.

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    There is no "misconception." You don't have a monopoloy of the defintion of the word.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    There is no "misconception." You don't have a monopoloy of the defintion of the word.
    Words do change meanings, but that does not change the fact that the word soul just simply means something that "exist," or is a "being." People can read all sorts of meanings into it, and they do. But I do not see a point into saying that that means there is no such thing as a soul in result of the fact that people do read into the word.

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    " But I do not see a point into saying that that means there is no such thing as a soul in result of the fact that people do read into the word."

    There is no soul as I understand it. In terms of how you put it, I would agree that such a thing exists(that we exist.)
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    " But I do not see a point into saying that that means there is no such thing as a soul in result of the fact that people do read into the word."

    There is no soul as I understand it. In terms of how you put it, I would agree that such a thing exists(that we exist.)
    Then we do not disagree ...

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    "Then we do not disagree ..."

    Which is what I was trying to say all along in my overly-complex manner that I like to do things.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=soul

    Sheash, do you Ti types realize that you can actually look something up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    Rocky, I was just about to link to Merriam-Webster!

    Ms. K, when I said personality is much more than mere genetics, I wasn't referring to some metaphysical immaterial entity - in other words a soul. I guess what I believe personally, is that genetics and biology sets a framework for our behavior. However I believe that, while one may have these genetic predispositions to behave in certain ways when presented with certain stimuli, one's personality evolves in reaction to the stimuli in the environment on grows up in. It's sort of a REALLY complicated intertwining of nature + nurture.

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    mysticsonic and baby

    baby, (still giggle when i say that) ahem, Baby,

    i wasn't saying you werereferring to an immaterial I. rather i wanted you to flesh out just what this complicated relation is between outside factors and inside factors you speak of, because it sounded like we'd have to conclude that there was another factor

    mysticsonic

    could you tell me why you think, and whittle my premises as appropriate, why if we dosay a person isnone other than a group of his psychological dispositions, mere states, why is it that there are only 16 types, 4 temperaments, 4 functions, 2 orientations, ad infinitum <<<<<<<<<<<7 billion different people with different actions that every single one is accountable for?

    Im not giving proof to the existence of a soul, im saying please flesh out exactly how you'd explain it

    in this case occams razor would vouch for a soul, eh?

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    oh and re: your post aboutthe sorry state of epistemology

    so iguess you didnt buy idealism?

    you're not in college yet? have you been reading philosophical texts in high school or on your own? cos youare luckyifyou are learning it in high school.

    read on *pumps fist*

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    Oh, I see what you mean, Ms. K. I'm not sure what that extra entitity would be, though. If not a soul in the traditional sense of that word, but an emotional motivation.

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    "please... no occam's razor... you know as well as i that it doesn't always cut. "


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    "in this case occams razor would vouch for a soul, eh?"

    No, no it wouldn't.

    "so iguess you didnt buy idealism? "

    By "idealism" do you mean subjective idealism? If so, then you are correct; I don't buy it.

    And, no, I don't have a philosophy class in highschool; I read up on things on my own.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    mystic, et al

    i meant, that you have to do a lot of work when it would just be quite easy to explain it by saying someone has freedom of the will stripped of outside factors. even if there is no entity presupposed, if you have to do mental acrobatics the theory will still seem a bit cluttered, which would go against the feeling of simplicity. if i have no proof, my belief is that truth is very simple

    its a large jump from supposing a part of the mind that is not influenced by type or environment to saying that this part of the mind is a soul, which i wasnt saying.

    what i want to know is what exactly is it that type is supposed to make up in ones mind. if it is a predisposition to behavior, is that just how you understasnd the mind, and if not, what?

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    whoa! how did the guest post merge ? with the? and the who? wha huh

    i posted as guest and said it was me and now its one post

    it was the forums soul, wasnt it?

  39. #39

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    not odd

    *gives you a rubik's cube*

  40. #40

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    On the "nature vs. nurture" thing: At least 75% of my personality and identity comes from nature. Otherwise, I'd be spending my days in sports and my nights at homework, have 250 close friends and 1563 casual relations, have the next 10 years all planned out and donate all my money to charity (I don't, because money is cheap and worthless).

    Insteadm I do whatever I find fun, spend half an hour a day on homework, have 2 close friends and 10 casual relations, have the next 10 minutes vaguely planned in my head and don't bother about money at all.
    Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.

    INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
    Dishonorary INFp
    Baah

    (Very good place for emoticons. Right-click on the one you want and select "properties" for direct link)

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