Isn't this a weird obsessive-compulsive INTp guy they are trying to portray here?
Monk (TV show)
Isn't this a weird obsessive-compulsive INTp guy they are trying to portray here?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
imo, Monk has strong Si and strong Ni.
Even not considering the amount of Si/Ni he shows, he'd be showing dynamic > static.
As his history unfolds in the show, he shows that even as a boy he had strong Si and Ni.
It's possible that he may have been F, but due to Trudy's death he became emotionally paralized and thus more T.
It's more likely that he was a T even before Trudy's death.
Whatever he was in his past, I think he's potrayed (in his present) as a Gamma NT.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Likely INTp.
(It's the Role.)
He reminds me of myself with his extra keen senses, his pedantry and his perfectionism.LOL
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
A pedantic ISTp?! ISTps are anything but pedantic.
Yes, I am very pedantic, or at least "moderately". And I 've been even more pedantic in my early childhood. Why are ISTPs anything but pedantic?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Most of the ISTps I know tend to be modest, especially when it comes to intellectual things. I see INTxs as being more pedantic.Yes, I am very pedantic, or at least "moderately". And I 've been even more pedantic in my early childhood. Why are ISTPs anything but pedantic?
What I meant by pedantic was more like meticulous, careful, organized, neat, tidy... Someone who is "too concerned with details or fine distinctions and too ready to criticize minor errors". In that context...
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
He already has been types as ISTj (or possible INTj) and I think it makes sense. INTj makes more sense than ISTj, because he's very dependant on someone to take care of him. He uses the assistant for everything, not only the phobias! Isn't that extreme infant-caregiver (or what the names of those gulenko things were). And another thing - no INTp would ever end up systematically obsessing about things like touching all the poles that are in one line. That's seriously not INTp behavior, no matter how insane they get. After all, we are typing him according to his behavior and motivation and everything, not some hypothetical "totally screwed up version of ....". By that second theory, he could also be ESTj, because of the eye for detail and structured behavior. The emotional shock just brought out a false side in him. They did say that he used to be very fun and social...
EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
E3 (probably 3w4)
Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!
Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/
Kristiina, those are some good points. His OCD behavior bears some resemblance to that of Harold from Stranger Than Fiction, who I have typed as INTj.
Monk: Leland Stottlemeyer
Yes, I know typing fictional characters can be unproductive/impossible. But sometimes I think it's fun anyway. So, here's Captain Leland Stottlemeyer, one of the main characters on the TV show Monk.
I think he's of a Te-Fi quadra and rational, but that's all I'm guessing at the moment.
Wikipedia Bio -
Captain Leland Stottlemeyer is a fictional police officer played by Ted Levine on the American comedic crime drama television series Monk. He is a captain in the San Francisco Police Department (SFPD) and a longtime (even if long-suffering) friend of Adrian Monk from their days on the force together where he served as Monk's fourth partner and later watch commander. His assistant, and source of much strife, is Lieutenant Randy Disher.
Relationship with Adrian Monk and Randy Disher
In the early episodes of the show especially, there is a certain degree of tension between the two. Stottlemeyer is somewhat antagonistic toward Monk, as he resents being forced (frequently by powers higher than he, such as the Mayor or the Police Commissioner) into calling on Monk's assistance, and is frequently exasperated by Monk's many quirks. Also inherent in this hostility is a certain degree of jealousy; Stottlemeyer appears only too aware that he is not nearly the detective that Monk is. He is also skeptical of Monk's ability to perform as a police officer, aware that Monk's psychological problems are a great handicap in the high-stress life of the police department; in the episode "Mr. Monk Goes to the Carnival", he is forced to betray Monk by honestly revealing his misgivings about allowing Monk back into the police department to the panel evaluating Monk's request. Sharona calls him on his jealousy by telling Stottlemeyr he should "At least have the decency to stab him in the front," and noting that Stottlemeyer owes Monk that much since Monk does all the work and he takes all the credit.
Despite these tensions, however, Stottlemeyer also has a great deal of sympathy and respect for Monk; even Stottlemeyer cannot deny Monk's abilities. Once convinced of the validity of one of Monk's theories, Stottlemeyer always proves a staunch ally in apprehending the culprit. A turning point for the character came in the second season episode "Mr. Monk and the Captain's Wife", when Stottlemeyer's own wife Karen is seriously injured and put in a coma. Though she recovers, Stottlemeyer is left with a taste of the kind of pain Monk bears and becomes far more sympathetic and respectful to him, if still easily exasperated by Monk's more extreme idiosyncrasies.
Another example of Stottlemeyer's loyalty as a friend came in "Mr. Monk Takes Manhattan", with the captain assisting in Monk's continuing investigation of Trudy's murder. He goes with Monk to New York City to follow up on a clue, and harshly confronts a New York City police captain for concealing information that was essential to Monk to solving the murder of his "friend's wife," remarking that that was the only thing he cared about at the time. In Mr. Monk is on the Run, Parts I and II Stottlemeyer's loyalty to Monk as a friend is further reinforced and the depth of love he has for Monk is illustrated by his willingness to help Monk fake his own death, risking his career and freedom.
His relationship with Lt. Disher borders from amused tolerance to the frustrating. He puts up with his idiosyncrasies and even barely resists laughing at some of his outlandish theories and quirks. It is such that he sometimes prefers to talk to Monk instead of him. However, he appreciates Randy's abilities and even harbors some affection for him, especially in dangerous situations. He even goes out to help Randy win his money back in "Mr. Monk Goes to Las Vegas". In that same episode he solves a murder while being drunk, proving that when he's "drunk as a skunk" he's as smart as Monk, because all of Las Vegas saw the magazine picture, including Monk, that incriminated the murderer, but, no one, save for a drunk Stottlemeyer, noticed the inconsistencies.
Romantic relationships and family
In "Mr. Monk and the Captain's Marriage", Stottlemeyer believes that his wife, Karen, is having an extramarital affair. At the end of the episode it is revealed that she is not having an affair, but instead is filing for divorce. The episode ends with Stottlemeyer walking out the door with his suitcases. During this episode he receives a yo-yo in anger management class that he can be seen with in later episodes.
He has two children, Jared and Max. A woman, Linda Fusco, falls in love with him in "Mr. Monk, Private Eye". She returns in "Mr. Monk and His Biggest Fan" and again in "Mr. Monk and the Bad Girlfriend", where she is arrested by Stottlemeyer, for murder. We learn by the end of the episode that he was going to propose to her during their trip to Hawaii which they would have left for that night. Instead, he throws the ring into the ocean, saying that it was "nothing, just a rock."
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Another variation of a bio -
Relationship with Adrian Monk
In the early episodes of the show especially, there is a certain degree of tension between the two. Stottlemeyer is somewhat antagonistic toward Monk, as he resents being forced (frequently by powers higher than he, such as the Mayor or the Police Commissioner) into calling on Monk's assistance, and is frequently exasperated by Monk's many quirks.
Also inherent in this hostility is a certain degree of jealousy; Stottlemeyer appears only too aware that he is not nearly the detective that Monk is. But on the other hand, he also realizes that the reverse side of Monk's amazing ability is his obsessive-compulsive personality and phobia-filled life. As he says to Monk once, "I don't mind living in your shadow, Monk; you're a freak of nature."
He is also skeptical of Monk's ability to perform as a police officer, aware that Monk's psychological problems are a great handicap in the high-stress life of the police department; he is forced to betray Monk by honestly revealing his misgivings about allowing Monk back into the police department to the panel evaluating Monk's request.
Despite these tensions, however, Stottlemeyer also has a great deal of sympathy and respect for Monk; even Stottlemeyer cannot deny Monk's abilities. Once convinced of the validity of one of Monk's theories, Stottlemeyer always proves a staunch ally in apprehending the culprit.
When Monk is mistakenly reported dead, Stottlemeyer is obviously devastated. He reminisces that Monk was a "yardstick" of both detection and character for him. He insists that Monk be buried with full departmental honors, with the Governor of the State in attendance. When Randy informs him that, technically, a suspended officer is not entitled to such a funeral, Stottlemeyer angrily threatens to quit and says he is not afraid to say he loved Adrian Monk. A moment later, his phone rings, and Monk turns out to be alive. Result: "I HATE THAT MAN!"
A turning point for him came when his own wife Karen Stottlemeyer is seriously injured and put in a coma. Though she recovers, he is left with a taste of the kind of pain Monk lives with, and becomes far more sympathetic and respectful to him, if still easily exasperated by Monk's more extreme idiosyncrasies.
Another example of Stottlemeyer's loyalty as a friend came in Manhattan, with the captain assisting in Monk's continuing investigation of Trudy's murder. He goes with Monk to New York City to follow up on a clue, and harshly confronts a New York City police captain for concealing information that was essential to solving the murder of his "friend's wife," remarking that that was the only thing he cared about at the time.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Stottlemeyer and Disher singing O Holy Night
Clips from the show
More clips from the show
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
ISTj, I think.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Awesome character.
Yeah, I wonder how you came up with that one!
Egads, is super mario an istj too? Hmm
Uptight 1w2 LSI-Se trying to save the world?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
He always gave me a sort of Stacy Keach sort of vibe, at least the kind of characters he would typically play:
I think Delta ST probably works for the character on Monk, ESTj being the most likely. Just a basic impression though. I always found his astonishment over Monk's abilities and intuition humorous.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
Yeah, I wonder how you came up with that one!
Egads, is super mario an istj too? Hmm
Uptight 1w2 LSI-Se trying to save the world?
ps. Not really.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
idk, he looks pretty "lit up" on "" if you know what I mean, at least in that picture. The Magic Mushrooms, and the Magic Stars, and so on.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
not my point.idk, he looks pretty "lit up" on "
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Thread necromancy!
I've been watching Monk again lately, and have come up with some preliminary typings for the characters:
Adrian Monk: It's kind of hard to tell under all the neuroses, but I think he's LII. I was pretty sure before, but there was an episode near the end of Season 7 that really convinced me. Monk meets this nice motherly old lady, who is clearly ESE, and immediately becomes close to her. He says she's a better mother to him than his real mother was. Plus, Monk seems pretty clearly Infantile, as Kristiina said.
Sharona Fleming: She seems ESI to me. I never really liked her, to be honest. She treated Monk like a baby and got annoyed at him all the time, even though she did develop a strong Fi bond with him. Natalie is much nicer.
Natalie Teeger: Some kind of Alpha SF. She fills the Caregiver role with Monk much more naturally. I'm torn between ESE and SEI, though.
Lt. Randy Disher: I can't decide if he's ILE or IEE. I think he might be ILE, but one of the rare depictions of an unintelligent ILE. Ne is pretty clear, as he's always coming up with absurd theories on who committed the crime, but Ti vs. Fi is less clear. I'm leaning toward ILE, as his theories are all logical in nature (though his logic is not very good), not relationship oriented. I could be convinced otherwise, however.
Cpt. Leland Stottlemeyer: Stereotypical LSI, right down to the mustache!
Quaero Veritas.
I love this show!Thread necromancy!
I've been watching Monk again lately, and have come up with some preliminary typings for the characters:
Adrian Monk: It's kind of hard to tell under all the neuroses, but I think he's LII. I was pretty sure before, but there was an episode near the end of Season 7 that really convinced me. Monk meets this nice motherly old lady, who is clearly ESE, and immediately becomes close to her. He says she's a better mother to him than his real mother was. Plus, Monk seems pretty clearly Infantile, as Kristiina said.
Sharona Fleming: She seems ESI to me. I never really liked her, to be honest. She treated Monk like a baby and got annoyed at him all the time, even though she did develop a strong Fi bond with him. Natalie is much nicer.
Natalie Teeger: Some kind of Alpha SF. She fills the Caregiver role with Monk much more naturally. I'm torn between ESE and SEI, though.
Lt. Randy Disher: I can't decide if he's ILE or IEE. I think he might be ILE, but one of the rare depictions of an unintelligent ILE. Ne is pretty clear, as he's always coming up with absurd theories on who committed the crime, but Ti vs. Fi is less clear. I'm leaning toward ILE, as his theories are all logical in nature (though his logic is not very good), not relationship oriented. I could be convinced otherwise, however.
Cpt. Leland Stottlemeyer: Stereotypical LSI, right down to the mustache!
I'm still not sure of Monk's type, I think LII or ILI is most likely. I think you've nailed the types of the other characters. The reason why I find Monk so hard to type is he is so aware of sensory details in his surroundings and uses that information to help him solve crimes. I can't imagine most LII's or ILI's naturally having that high degree of awareness. On the other hand, it's probably his mental disorder that's making him hyperaware.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I know, I love it too! The only thing is, I can't watch too many episodes in a row, or I start feeling the urge to straighten things and not step on the cracks in the sidewalk and wash my hands a lot and... well, you know.
Yeah, I wondered about that at first, too, but all the other evidence overwhelmed it.
But now that I think about it, if you pay attention, it's not actually the Se details of objects that Monk notices -- it's the Ti connections between things. If there are three items on the mantelpiece, he doesn't notice the details of the items as much as he notices that one of them is out of place in relation to the other two. He notices the incongruous things, the things that aren't neatly fitted into an orderly system. It's OCD combined with base Ti!
Plus, the whole holding-out-his-hands in-the-zone thing he does seems more like he's blocking out the Se details of the room, and trying to perceive the overall Ne picture.
Either way, though, I'm pretty sure he's a static type. He hates and fears change, and does not handle dynamic situations very well. He is most at peace in his nice, neat little apartment, where he can maintain an orderly and unchanging static environment (in that episode with the nice motherly old lady I mentioned, she actually got him to rearrange the furniture in his living room, and this was a big deal to Natalie and Leland, as he would normally never do that).
Anyway, yeah. The more I think about it, the more LII makes sense for Monk.
Quaero Veritas.
I've been using a program called the Visual Understanding Environment (VUE) to map out socionics relationships in groups of people. It's fascinating, and provides a way to get a quick overview of the social dynamics within a group. Here's one I did for Monk, using my typings (I settled on SEI for Natalie and ILE for Randy -- Randy is the one I'm still least sure of).
Blue lines represent relationships of Repulsion, Red lines represent relationships of Attraction. The thickness and length of the lines represents the compatibility and ease of communication of the relationship, according to my system of ranking: short thick lines being more compatible, long thin lines being less compatible.
Blue boxes represent Alpha characters, red represent Beta, purple Gamma, and if there were any Deltas they would be green. But there isn't so they're not.
A few things stand out: Sharona was off by herself, and really only got along with Cpt. Stottlemeyer. The show was about her and Stottlemeyer trying to restrain Monk's weirdness and get him to solve cases. When Natalie replaced Sharona, the show's dynamic changed. The relationships in the show are all closer and stronger, for one thing. Natalie is closer to Monk than she is to the Captain, so now the show is about Natalie helping Monk deal with the world, and being on his side against the Captain in any conflicts that might arise. The show became much more Alpha, leaving poor old Beta Stottlemeyer off to the side, a little frustrated by it all.
What do you* think?
*Third person plural
Quaero Veritas.
Actually no, Stottlemeyer is probably LSE. Si > Se and Fi > Fe valuing.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Hmm, ok, here's one with Stottlemeyer as LSE:
Y'know, that makes a lot of sense, especially Stottlemeyer being Randy's Benefactor and Natalie's Supervisor. I will have to look at Stottlemeyer more closely next time I watch the show.
Quaero Veritas.
So, I just saw the most recent episode of Monk. It was the long-awaited Return of Sharona episode, where Sharona and Natalie finally meet. I was quite looking forward to it, as I finally got to see if my Quasi-Identity theory was correct.
Spoilers Below This Line!
--------------------------------
It was awesome! They totally clashed. Sharona demonstrated her Te-valuing practicality (Who cares if it was murder? I need the money for my kid!), which hit Natalie right in the PoLR. Natalie, siding with Monk, responded with her Ti-valuing system of ideals (It was murder! Murder is wrong!), and the conflict escalated. Of course, they reconciled by the end of the episode; for all their differences, they still had the same SF interests (i.e., taking care of Monk).
The difference in the way they treat Monk was also sharply contrasted. At one point, Natalie even directly says that Sharona treats Monk like a child, which I said earlier in this thread. Vindication!
There's no doubt in my mind now: Sharona is ESI. There's still an outside chance that Natalie is ESE, but I think SEI is more likely.
But then there was the big surprise at the end of the episode. If Sharona and Randy are all romantically inclined, then there's no way they're Conflicting types, not after having known each other for so long. This leaves only one other possible type for Randy: IEE. That would make him Sharona's Supervisor, which makes much more sense -- Supervision being very common in romantic relationships. Also, it makes Randy the Supervisee of Monk, which honestly makes more sense than Mirror. Mirrors see each other as relative equals, but Randy is in no way Monk's equal. Plus, he retains Semi-Duality with Natalie, which still explains the duality vibes I was getting from them.
Oh, uh, one more thing (sorry, wrong detective show): Cpt. Stottlemeyer as LSE never really sat well with me. It fit better than LSI, but still, it didn't feel quite right. So what's left? Why, the obvious, of course -- SLI. Now that I've thought of it, I can't see why I didn't before. With Randy as IEE and Stottlemeyer as SLI, that makes Monk their Supervisor and Benefactor, respectively. That totally makes sense, as both of them look up to Monk as a great detective, despite all his foibles, in a way that Natalie and Sharona and others don't.
The only thing that somewhat doesn't fit is that, for a Duality pair, Stottlemeyer sure does get annoyed at Randy sometimes. However, I think this can be explained with DCNH: If Stottlemeyer is Normalizing (as is pretty clear, whatever his type) and Randy is Creative (which would explain the difficulty in discerning the Ti/Fi dichotomy with him), then Randy would be Subtype-Benefactor to Stottlemeyer, who would himself be Subtype-Supervisor to Randy. Or in other words, Randy would be "pushing" and "urging" while Stottlemeyer would be "resisting" and "braking". This matches their relationship perfectly: Randy is always espousing his crazy theories, while Stottlemeyer is always shooting them down.
Anyway, here's a diagram of my current thoughts on the intertype dynamics of Monk:
Quaero Veritas.
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