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Thread: just a casual thread about how I still don't want to be an EIE-ENFj

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    Default just a casual thread about how I still don't want to be an EIE-ENFj

    I was thinking... You know how the stereotypical INTjs and ISTjs are sad that people don't notice and that no one really knows them... non-Fe people who somewhat admire Fe think that everything would be easier if they just had Fe. I have one teacher (probably INTj) who is so monotonous that people stopped attending his lectures, and I'm sure he noticed. He seems like a nice guy, but he isn't doing anything to make an impression on the class. I wonder if he sometimes thinks that life would be better if only he knew how to influence the mood of the people in the class. Maybe he also thinks that Fe people have it easy.

    I just want to set the record straight - it's not easier. It's somewhat more interesting, that's fur sure, but having that control over other people's mood can be quite difficult to have. And I have indeed noticed that I have enormous emotional influence. I can make people emotionally react, if only for a moment. I don't do it consciously, but it just happens. When I'm agitated, I notice people around me getting more serious and stiff. When I'm in a really happy mood, I usually start blabbing and goofing around and other people do react to it. People who know that it's the real me - the happy me - are more likely to react than those who barely know me.

    To the point. The life of an Fe person who affects the moods of others takes responsibility for the moods that she creates. If I sense that a person doesn't like me, I'll probably be more sad, because the person saw the real me and didn't like it. For non-Fe people, there's always the option - "I never even opened up to them, they don't even know the real me.". But I do show myself to other people. They just might not like it and then I feel like I behaved the wrong way. ISFps tend to not like me... and ESTjs think I whine too much (negativism? not being able to appreciate what I already have?) and ESFjs like me just as long as I behave like an INTj, and ENTps only like me as long as I don't start planning anything...


    No point in idealizing Fe. Just respond to it in a positive way, and the Fe people will appreciate you.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    Kristiina, I am probably bypassing the essence of this topic to ask you this but I am a bit curious... Why do you think ISFps tend not to like you?
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    imagine being on the look out for how everyone structures things, their reality, their thought process, ....... ......... ..............
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Megan, it's because they give me a side-viewer's look that says, "calm down and stop fussing around. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the moment." Somehow, when I'm happy and energetic, they see me as neurotic, when I'm miserable and depressed they kinda seem to look down on me. Also, I feel like they feel sorry for me somehow. As if they think I'm trying too hard or that I'm not popular or something... At least that's the impression I get. I prefer to avoid serious conversations with them because then they start giving my opinions too much credit and I have to be very careful about what I tell them. I have a natural tendency to suggest "what I'd do in that situation", but I expect the other person to be critical of those ideas and to think them through. ISFps seem to take my opinions too literally and get disappointed in me if they think the solution isn't logical enough. (but that's because we have different goals)
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    really good thread Kristiina! Coincedentally I've been feeling the same way lately...This ESFp I know looks down upon me and basically told someone that she feels sorry that my friends have to deal with me ...anyway wat u said about isfp's is soo true....anyway good to know that there is another enfj that feels the same way...
    ENFj Ni subtype 3w4
    "And once you lose your way you have two choices. Find the person you used to be or lose that person completely"
    formerly onetreehilluver

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
    really good thread Kristiina! Coincedentally I've been feeling the same way lately...This ESFp I know looks down upon me and basically told someone that she feels sorry that my friends have to deal with me ...anyway wat u said about isfp's is soo true....my isfp friends sees me as this broken person when i'm depressed and want me to cheer up and she does take things too literally when i say it....anyway good to know that there is another enfj that feels the same way...

    How can you take that shit?! Anyway, as in other ENFj's I know, you two probably have this strong impact on other people, and in my experience, people admire this .
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    i. love. fe.

    i'd be lost without people like you kristiina.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    If fishing for compliments is what you are subconsciously doing,


    Then yes, I absolutely adore myself.
    I am very glad I am not Fe leading, as I really don't like dealing with other people in that way.
    ENFjs and ESFjs consistently brighten my day.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Megan, it's because they give me a side-viewer's look that says, "calm down and stop fussing around. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the moment." Somehow, when I'm happy and energetic, they see me as neurotic, when I'm miserable and depressed they kinda seem to look down on me. Also, I feel like they feel sorry for me somehow. As if they think I'm trying too hard or that I'm not popular or something.
    supervision can be very hard I guess.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    This thread makes me go back to thinking you're ISFj.

    Fun stuff about combining dichotomies.
    Process, negative & narrator. (and the opposites)

    EP: "You suck!" or "Everything I'm doing is perfect, isn't it?"
    EJ: "What am I doing wrong?" or "You're great and I bet you could be even better!"
    IP: "You're doing this and this wrong, you're hopeless!" or "I'm perfect, aren't I?"
    IJ: "Why do I suck so much?" or "I need to show you how it's done!"

    Note the glories of dualism on that one!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    lol, it might actually be that I subconsciously just wanted praise and compliments so I made this thread. But my subconscious is good for me. Now this thread made me feel all warm and fuzzy.

    Supervision sucks indeed. I take confort in knowing that the INTps that I know like me better than they like ISFps even though I supervise them.

    And still not ISFj. Oh, BTW, I identified a ENTj-ISFj dual pair in my class. They are a couple of girls, sitting next to each other and good friends. They are just friends, but they are such a good match as human beings that the ISFj commented, " I always told her I want to marry her." I used to think she's an over-eager ENFp who tries really hard to look sophisticated and smart so she dresses smart, I didn't realize that was the read honest her.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Fun stuff about combining dichotomies.
    Process, negative & narrator. (and the opposites)

    EP: "You suck!" or "Everything I'm doing is perfect, isn't it?"
    EJ: "What am I doing wrong?" or "You're great and I bet you could be even better!"
    IP: "You're doing this and this wrong, you're hopeless!" or "I'm perfect, aren't I?"
    IJ: "Why do I suck so much?" or "I need to show you how it's done!"

    Note the glories of dualism on that one!
    Smashing
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Fun stuff about combining dichotomies.
    Process, negative & narrator. (and the opposites)

    EP: "You suck!" or "Everything I'm doing is perfect, isn't it?"
    EJ: "What am I doing wrong?" or "You're great and I bet you could be even better!"
    IP: "You're doing this and this wrong, you're hopeless!" or "I'm perfect, aren't I?"
    IJ: "Why do I suck so much?" or "I need to show you how it's done!"

    Note the glories of dualism on that one!
    Smashing
    Note that that one applies to process-positive-narrator Ijs: ISTj & INFj.

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    Indeed. I don't have any problems caught in the INTj-ISTj hustle and ending up with Ms. Virginia.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    (who is typed by others here as ENFj)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    yeah, I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Megan, it's because they give me a side-viewer's look that says, "calm down and stop fussing around. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the moment."
    That's how ISTps see me too, I think.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I identified a ENTj-ISFj dual pair in my class. They are a couple of girls, sitting next to each other and good friends. They are just friends, but they are such a good match as human beings that the ISFj commented, " I always told her I want to marry her."
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    How did the ESTjs let you know that they think you whine too much?

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    For non-Fe people, there's always the option - "I never even opened up to them, they don't even know the real me."
    Ironically, this was my ENFj friend's favourite motto because he was so accustomed to "mirroring" people. He kept aspects of himself hidden and said what he thought the other would like to hear, even if it entailed lies and manipulation. When I declared "zomg we have so many things in common!", his reply was "You thinking that because I mirror you. I'm serious because you are. I borrow your catchphrases without thinking about it. You don't know who I really am."

    Fe types are accused of "having no real emotions" for a reason. When I have to enact a lie, I can become so absorbed in my role that all the "appropriate" emotions naturally flow into me. Even if the real me has no need to feel threatened by an SMS that A has seen already, "I" will still become angry and look trapped when B threatens to send a copy because "I deleted the SMS before A could see it, and I'll be in trouble if it gets to A" -- when the reality of the situation is far from that.

    I used to worry that I had "no real personality" because I liked to take on the traits of people that I admired. "The lone wolf" was one of my favourite types, and when I couldn't play the "bubbly and talkative girl whom the loner would open up to", I went for the other end, figuring that the opposite would be easier to play. I isolated myself and stocked up on books until I could feel comfortable going on for weeks without human contact. Solitude was difficult to learn, but I became "the lone wolf" in the end. So much that I'm no longer sure if "the introvert" is just a role that I've gotten used to playing
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    How did the ESTjs let you know that they think you whine too much?
    ESTjs don't really go for the subtle approach. He looked really disturbed and disgusted and he said, "stop whining!". And at other times, "Can't you just not whine?!". "Whew-whew-whew... Always whining" or later for simplicity, "Whew-whew-whew!". My dad's ESTj. Otherwise people usually think I'm an optimist. Only people who are close to me know that I have trouble being happy with what I have and I always want more. When I finish one task, I almost immediately start worrying and stressing out about the next one. I avoid ruining other people's moods with my problems, so I try to not let it show and I give the impression of a positive person.


    Raisonpure, I relate to what he said, but I do the opposite - I balance out other people. I show traits that are opposite to the traits of the other person. I become introverted when talking to extroverts and vice versa. I behave bold when I'm with careful people and I behave very careful around bold people. I behave structured and official around ENTps and goofy-funky-easygoing around INFjs. The weird thing is that this also works! It sometimes gives the relationship conflict-traits, but usually I have pseudo-duality with people. I usually don't have any trouble using pseudo-duality for very good small-talk and I avoid some people, because I don't like what I become near them. And I enjoy the company of INFjs because it's easier to enjoy life when I feel goofy-funky-easygoing.

    And I also identify with the lone wolf story. I used to be very introverted because of similar reasons. I became more extroverted when I realized that evoking positive emotions in other people gives me a feeling of emotional fulfillment. It's something I got addicted to and now I don't feel complete when I don't get to do that. :wink:
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    le petit prince raisonpure's Avatar
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    Hmm. I've only become more extraverted after my health took a major plunge from focusing so much on Ni that I was too distracted most of the time to hear what people were saying to me. But it's not so much through Fe as raw Se, as with what Jung wrote in the last part about Ni:

    The introverted intuitive's chief repression falls upon the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression. This latter quality is a compensation to the thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete 'sublimation' is prevented. But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, a complete subordination to the inner perception should develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis, exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects. [p. 511]
    I'm still investigating the relation between Ni and Se so that I can decode Jung better.
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    uncertainty of the flow of time ~ certainty of the present static moment


    that might help intuitively, but other than that don't pay attention to what I said.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Megan, it's because they give me a side-viewer's look that says, "calm down and stop fussing around. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the moment." Somehow, when I'm happy and energetic, they see me as neurotic, when I'm miserable and depressed they kinda seem to look down on me. Also, I feel like they feel sorry for me somehow. As if they think I'm trying too hard or that I'm not popular or something... At least that's the impression I get. I prefer to avoid serious conversations with them because then they start giving my opinions too much credit and I have to be very careful about what I tell them. I have a natural tendency to suggest "what I'd do in that situation", but I expect the other person to be critical of those ideas and to think them through. ISFps seem to take my opinions too literally and get disappointed in me if they think the solution isn't logical enough. (but that's because we have different goals)
    ....HAH....but you just THINK they are doing this...most likely.

    this is the cause of friction between me and a good enfj friend of mine. she seems to THINK im thinking these things...or thinks ill be judgemental. except the feeling sorry for part, don't really have much of that. okay well a little but only because of the situation she is in is worth feeling sorry for her about, but i try to help her objectivly...she just doesn't take my advise for some crazy, irrational reason. ~.~ haha i think i just proved your point...WHAT TYPE AM I?!?!? AHHHH!!!!!!
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Only people who are close to me know that I have trouble being happy with what I have and I always want more.
    That is so plain & honest.



    I became more extroverted when I realized that evoking positive emotions in other people gives me a feeling of emotional fulfillment. It's something I got addicted to and now I don't feel complete when I don't get to do that.
    Evoking positive emotions...you consciously try to do this? I mean, how do you go about evoking positive emotions from others?
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I became more extroverted when I realized that evoking positive emotions in other people gives me a feeling of emotional fulfillment. It's something I got addicted to and now I don't feel complete when I don't get to do that. :wink:
    I like this idea of being "addicted to" the dominant function. It's a healthy addiction to have.

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    Evoking positive emotions...you consciously try to do this? I mean, how do you go about evoking positive emotions from others?
    People like positive emotions. Or at least they like laughing. At 8.15 in the morning, after people have barely slept, they are tired and grumpy and they have had a helluva week, they step into the classroom knowing they are going to have another long day of lectures... then suddenly someone greets them in an overwhelmingly positive tone, "Good morning! ", you'd be surprised to know that actually about 5 people about of 6 give a genuine smile, the sixth one gives effort to smile, but fails. Assuming I'm not already talking to anyone, almost all of those 5 people are now "primed" for a positive conversation at 8.15 in the morning. I just have to know what line they are going to respond to. Standard tacky punch-lines only give a nod, but they can be used to fill in the blanks to avoid the awkward silence that breaks the flow. It's usually best to talk about something that they know of. "You're giving a presentation today? Oh, tomorrow. Well, then you still have some time to prepare for that. " (or as an alternative, "...presentation today. Oh, then you'll feel all better in 2 hours! And giving presentations is not that bad, if you just remember that the audience consists of people who've all been through that, so they won't care if anything goes wrong, so you have nothing to worry about! ")

    It's not always that simple, but it basically works just like that. You've heard of contagious laughter. Same works for smiling and misery and most other emotions. People are happy to accept that small moment of small-talk, even if it doesn't really change anything. Unfortunately, I have to have positive emotions myself before I can even start the process. If I feel miserable, it will show and my smile will look sad. But when I do manage to have positive emotions for 10 seconds and give that good mood to someone else, they will just end up doing the same in reverse - I smiled at them, it makes them smile, which makes me smile. Altogether, both are happier and I think that's why they say that ENFjs contribute to the group mood. (for example - look at this thread. People are so positive that it reftected back to me, and now here I am over-using smileys again! :wink: )
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    (for example - look at this thread. People are so positive that it reftected back to me, and now here I am over-using smileys again! :wink: )
    who do you think you're kidding? you have Ni in your ego; your emotional high is not based on our emotional states at all, but rather your perception of our agreement with your assessment of the situation.

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    Now how could you hate being an ENFj?

    Why don't we trade types
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    I had a dream that I finally found my beta group of friends and the good thing about them is that they were really honest! They kept on "accidentally" talking about me behind my back, so I would learn from that and improve myself. The dream was interesting, because they accused me of things I usually accuse myself of. Too loud, selfish, inconsistent, bossy, etc.

    The thing is that people might give me that smile and talk to me a little while, but that was still rather aggressive of me to try to pull them out of their misery. People often don't like being pushed/pulled. And they might consider me shallow because I prefer light topics in conversations like that. And they might say I worry too much about what other people think... Each type has their pros and cons.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  31. #31
    misutii's Avatar
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    If you're ever with an INFp in a group you should be able to have fun.... me and my ENFj roomate have like Fe overdoses together and make a habit of intimidating those nearby with our abrasiveness, it rocks, just randomly screaming one second then dancing around the next then stomping around or ranting in a high pitch the next and replaying the most dramatic scenes from shows and movies we can think of, lol
    INFp-Ni

  32. #32
    Kristiina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii
    If you're ever with an INFp in a group you should be able to have fun.... me and my ENFj roomate have like Fe overdoses together and make a habit of intimidating those nearby with our abrasiveness, it rocks, just randomly screaming one second then dancing around the next then stomping around or ranting in a high pitch the next and replaying the most dramatic scenes from shows and movies we can think of, lol
    lol, that sounds like a lot of fun. My little sister is INFp and half the time we're together, no one understands us! We humm movie tunes, refer to actors by weird traits, "Oh-OH! It's that actor with huge eyebrows from that horrible movie!" and the other one, "OH! You're right, it IS him!". And other people just stare at us.
    I also know one INFp at school and she's always so cheerful and nice and we totally mirror the cheerfulness.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    How did the ESTjs let you know that they think you whine too much?
    ESTjs don't really go for the subtle approach. He looked really disturbed and disgusted and he said, "stop whining!". And at other times, "Can't you just not whine?!". "Whew-whew-whew... Always whining" or later for simplicity, "Whew-whew-whew!". My dad's ESTj. Otherwise people usually think I'm an optimist. Only people who are close to me know that I have trouble being happy with what I have and I always want more. When I finish one task, I almost immediately start worrying and stressing out about the next one. I avoid ruining other people's moods with my problems, so I try to not let it show and I give the impression of a positive person.
    i understand the worrying and stressing out feeling as i get that too sometimes. it happens when i anticipate for what's going to happen next and next. that can prevent you from getting into some big problems but it's not easy on the nerves.

    since you want to avoid ruining other people's moods, do you tend to work out the 'escape' plans yourself if you are working with other people?

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