anyone have experience with this relation?
ENTp and ISTj supervision relations (ILE-LSI)
anyone have experience with this relation?
Two of my good friends (who were friends with each other) were ISTj and ENTP. They were a riot to watch together. They got along well and enjoyed each other's company, but the ENTp always thought of the ISTj as rigid and naive, though in an endearing and hilarious way. In essence, he saw him as the awkward teenager who needed to be brought out of his shell. A while back they traveled abroad with a group and were roommates, and I recall the ENTp telling me how disappointed he was that the ISTj didn't go out partying with him and stayed in his room all night. The ENTp didn't sound offended by this, though. He sounded more like a frustrated counselor/friend who was disappointed by the ISTj's self-sabotage. He would also mention frequently that the ISTj needed to be more spontaneous.
The funny thing about this relation is that I've never seen an ENTp act in such a concerned/caring way toward someone else. Usually ENTps don't bother with people who have issues or aren't enjoyable to spend time with, but this ENTp was extrordinarily patient with and accepting of the ISTj - it really seemed like he wanted the best for him.
The ISTj had a lot of respect for the ENTp - he pretty much wanted to be him because the ENTp was very popular and in high demand. On the other hand, he thought he was bizarre.
Watching arguments between those two was the funniest. The ISTj would snap at the ENTp like a crab whenever he disagreed with something he said, and the ENTp would just laugh out loud and say something patronizing. It looked something like a grandchild taking care of the crusty, crazy grandparent (this doesn't describe all ISTjs, just my one friend who's a total caricature).
The two weren't incredibly close, however, because I think they got on each other's nerves.
I have witnessed a romantic relationship. It was very similar to what uninspired described, but since it was ENTp male - ISTj female, the girl actually went along with the partying, and she didn't "snap" at him much - although the reaction was exactly the one you mention - they ENTp would always start laughing, but he probably kept inside the patronizing comment. I don't know how it ended or if it ended, but it actually looked like a good match.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
i have 3 good friends who are all istj's. for some reason, i kinda like them. they are so practical and down to earth. unlike me.
they do get annoyed with me a la grandparent though....since i always have some harebrained idea that they don't want to consider but kind of have to. the funny part of the relationship is the entp being impervious to any criticism from the istj but the istj's, who are normally so stoic and controlled, being totally affected by the least little thing the entp says.
i'd have to say i like the attention. and i spose the relationship descriptions are correct...i guess we look like good friends. but we all really are good friends.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I get to post after you this time
I know two ISTjs well. I get along with both of them well, except one time with one of them (I guy I work with) had one big argument.
This relation seems to be a good one IMO. I admire the way they think about things, they way they are very well grounded to very practical thoughts.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
This scene is kind of a caricature, but this what it's like from ILE-Ne pov interacting with ST rational types.
I witnessed an ENTp executive regularly using an ISTj employee (4 levels below him) to do renovation work around his home; now, the executive didn't have any real power whatsoever to conscript him. Because the ISTj regularly sought praise from everyone up the chain, I assumed that he took any opportunity to impress. The ENTp described the ISTj as nothing more than a peon albeit a competent one. The only socialization that they ever did was when there was work to be done. I never understood what the ISTj got out of the relationship other than occasional pats on the head because the ENTp certainly never helped him with anything......
a.k.a. I/O
This is spot on and the exact replica of another ILE-LSI relation i've witnessed. However, in my observations of ILE, if they can get away with it, they will recruit just about anyone to do their work. So, in other words, is not exclusive to the nature of supervisory relation.Originally Posted by Rebelondeck
I witnessed an ENTp executive regularly using an ISTj employee (4 levels below him) to do renovation work around his home; now, the executive didn't have any real power whatsoever to conscript him. Because the ISTj regularly sought praise from everyone up the chain, I assumed that he took any opportunity to impress. The ENTp described the ISTj as nothing more than a peon albeit a competent one. The only socialization that they ever did was when there was work to be done. I never understood what the ISTj got out of the relationship other than occasional pats on the head because the ENTp certainly never helped him with anything......
a.k.a. I/O
My father - as an example - who is ILE, often recruits me to do work for him (the kind of work he doesn't want to do for various reasons). I'm delta so ILE is not my supervisor, and when i do oblige it is in the name of doing something for the family - yet I know he'd do this with other people too. Well, i've seen him try with just about anyone who obliges.
My question for you: Aren't LIIs similar?
LII here. I was reluctant to get any kind of help in a problematic manner for major part of my life. I have declined lots of favors or help that majority of people wouldn't be hesitant to take. I can't imagine myself recruiting people to do my work for me. Unfortunately, I don't know any ILE or any LII besides myself, but I am suspicious that it could be an alpha NT trait. I have seen LIEs recruiting people to do their work for them and it wasn't only my personal perception, other people commented that was the case.
Just a side not, IJs may be less prone to recruit people to do their own work. It may not be related to quadras.
I think IEEs are also similar in my experience...
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I also work with lots of SEEs, I think they are very good at recruiting people to do their work, they know who to choose for a certain task. LIEs usually ask for small things, they don't expect you to do all the work. I thought they are asking not because they need it, they just want to see how much other person would do for them, maybe its my imagination. I have one IEE friend, she only ask for things that make her feel protected and safe such as taking her to her house when we are returning from somewhere or being a companion if she thinks the place isn't safe.
Most LIIs that I've known wouldn't want to owe someone so would prefer doing things themselves (if they're able) in order to maintain independence. They also tend to be perfectionists about their own property and would want leverage if something went wrong so volunteers would not be their preferred route. They would accept help so long as they retained control and the perceived risk was low. I don't know of any LII who went looking for free labour but I don't view such a tendency as related to any type - it's more upbringing and influences. Isn't getting everything for little or nothing the highest form of capitalism; that why many capitalists resent welfare recipients - it should be them?......
a.k.a. I/O
Yes, ime as well. If IEE (Or ILE ) notice that you have a skill or ability - even if it's something as simple as good attention to detail - they will hijack your skill lol. I say this from personal experience of having had IEE trying to re-direct my skills (i have some basic ones i guess) towards other goals. A SI-ego type, particularly SLI, knows how to deal with this because they are very well equipped to bargain and barter their skills. Whereas other types are not so good at that so are in a bad position when a NE-Ep tries to redirect their capabilities.
I feel like i lean strongly gamma in that respect and don't meddle with others' capabilities unless they ask me directly, so maybe i have my subtype wrong.
N types see better the possibilities than S types like you. They try to help by own ways. They give advices how to use the noticed abbilities, point on more possibilities and sometimes push you to some which think as better for you.
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