Delta rant about the state of the universe - <3 Ishy

[Kim]

Well, deltas, ishy wants us to rant. What bothers you about the universe, the globe, society, people, rodents, and random letters that can be assigned to people, among many other things?

[Slacker]

Ok well I'm in the mood to rant.

I got a new car and I want XM radio installed in it. The fine professionals at my local Best Buy are unfamiliar with my the popular minivan I have and don't know if they can figure out how to install it properly. But they'll TRY. ACK ACK. That sends me running. There is no try, there is only do.

Why can't someone deal with my car. What do I have to do to get a damn radio installed PROPERLY in my car. I don't want something that is a pain to use. I want it to look nice and be easy.

Someone somewhere wants my money and will get a radio put in my car properly! And help me figure out which XM radio I want! WHO WHO WHO WHO WHO WHO WHO? I hate hassles!

This is hardly a rant about the state of the universe but it is the thing that is most pissing me off today.

[Gilly]

There is no try, there is only do.

This phrase pisses me off so, so, so much.

[Slacker]

I don't care in the slightest what pisses you off. Why do you feel like you need to tell me that?

[Gilly]

I don't know why I feel the things I feel. If I did, I wouldn't feel them; I would know them.

[Slacker]

I'm wondering why, in a thread about delta rants, you felt the need to dissect my rant and complain about a phrase I used. I don't care why you feel what you feel either. Only why you think you need to comment on what other people feel.

[Gilly]

Only why you think you need to comment on what other people feel.

Hypocrite.

[Slacker]

This is a thread about DELTA rants. If you were a Delta and you wanted to rant about me offending your sensibilities as self-proclaimed guardian of all that is cool or whatever the hell you think you are, that would make sense in this thread. But no, you decided to read a thread about DELTA rants and comment on my rant. I don't go into other quadra's threads and comment from the outside on whether I like the way the express themselves. I see you seem to have some confusion about what type you are, but none of your potential types seem to be Delta.

[aestrivex]

this discussion is laughably absurd.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Mea]

---

[Mea]

---

[FDG]

And the morality of this world is declining.
Think Sodom and Gomorrah. And how the world now is like that. AND it's gradually being accepted as normal.

I hope I don't get flamed for this. These are just my views, don't take them too personally.

Explain better. You don't want people to have sex?

[meatburger]

A few things i think are happening in the world are

- The decline of Christian Values in Western Civilisation
- Advertising strongly affecting how we think and view ourselves
- People believing what they read / hear less and being more sceptical
- People being controlled by power less
- A large broadening of what is accepted by Society
- People becomming more individual and outspoken
- People on a whole are more confused and Angry/Scared
- A large amount of consumerism and greed taking over
- Technology whilst advancing civilisation is making people fatter and less social.

I just pulled them out of my butt

I think with all these things people are expressing there individuality more. With so many people in the world, people feel less important and strive to make themselves known. I see a positive of this that some things that people had to repress about themselves for years are now more accepted. People are less likely to be deluded by Government schemes etc. I forsee the gradual dying of traditional religeons as the years go by although it would take a long time. Maybe this will stop some of the vilification and hate that is happening.

Some of these problems i think are people no longer take care of others like they used to. Christian values do have some great parts about them. People are less likely to stick with an incompatible partner for the sake of their family. While this is good from one point of view, im sad that many kids these days have broken families etc. A lot of people these days believes the world owes them a living and when the going gets tough - they quit!

So where do i see the future? Hmm who knows. Maybe the Killing off a whole lotta natural creatures and flora and fauna. The further de-forestation of our beautiful forests, the increase of poverty as society buckles under its own weight. Funnily enough i do have hope for us though. I think science could possibly be our saviour in the far future though.

Anyway i just typed i didn't think about that at all hence the idea of a Rant

I just got home from work and i have had a few beers :wink:

[Reuben]

Evidently this universe is emptying its moral banks and trading it for an obese quantity of individuality. Society is breaking into little fragments because everybody wants to stand out on top of the world. Few people hold on to important values, many are in the pursuit of happiness but they believe it is found in money/sex/power. On the contrary, money/sex/power is found in happiness. Because of this chasing of the wind, this fruitless pursuit, values are being diluted to the extent that they resemble a drop of honey syrup in plain water. The world reflects the lives of its residents, and its residents' lives are fragile and in utter chaos. Pollution clouds the skies of morality and toxic runs through the oceans of our souls. The trees of ageless virtue are being cut down to be used for fuelling our animosity and segregation from society. This is an interesting age to live in, but it lacks peace or joy. Needless to say, where is the love?

[XoX]

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God -- having a form of godliness but denying its power."

Now that is what I call ranting. Personally I would like to rant about mandatory Swedish courses which are more or less useless but have potential to ruin people's lives. And about aristocratic ENFp Swedish teachers. What else...hmm...I hate the fact that you can't have a party in Finland without everybody getting so drunk they are close to passing out. Then I hate the fact that we don't really have autumn anymore (environmental change?) instead the summer lasts longer and suddenly switches to winter. Which is weird and causes a lot of car accidents because people can't anticipate when is the right time to change to winter tires. Then I hate central european strawberries which look good but taste artificial. And they are so damn cheap that you still have to buy them. Then I hate the fact that prices of houses are artificially high. Did I already mention I hate mandatory Swedish courses?

[flower]

ooh, some nice rants here, lemme carry it on.

I hate it when its cold and I have to get out of my nice warm bed,
I hate thunder and lightening, I too loud,
I hate news broadcasts the way they focus on politcs, in a constant attempt to say, "this is what you should be concerened about, and this is what you should think about it".
I hate dogs, they are loud, aggressive, smelly and jump up at you.
I hate that our moral and social lives are goverened by money <3 theblueblade, (we only have 6.5 billion people left to get on our side )
I hate people who say "you should" a lot.
I hate the way its accepible to use pychological effects in business to manipulate the way people behave and think, for the purposes of making money.
I hate thin slices of bread, and that chocolate makes you fat.

Ok, thats enough ranting, im off to be happy again.

[Slacker]

OK so this is odd. A lot of the things other people think are examples of problems in the world, I see as signs that the world is improving. For instance, people minding their own business in regard to other people's sex lives. I think the more people mind their own business, the better the world is.

But take the following list (and I don't mean to pick on you meatburger <3 Do you see all the things in your list as bad? I couldn't tell):

- The decline of Christian Values in Western Civilisation

GOOD. Values based on someone's religion shouldn't be forced upon people who aren't that religion.

- Advertising strongly affecting how we think and view ourselves

I agree with this but it contradicts the next item in your list.

- People believing what they read / hear less and being more sceptical

GOOD. People should always question what they read and hear

- People being controlled by power less

This is good. I am thinking you also see this as good?

- A large broadening of what is accepted by Society

GOOD. Society is made up of a bunch of people and each person is an individual.

- People becomming more individual and outspoken

Good. If you couldn't tell from my last answer

- People on a whole are more confused and Angry/Scared

I don't see this. But if thinking for themselves makes people angry or scared, in the long run people will be better off for it.

- A large amount of consumerism and greed taking over

I agree with this as being "bad" too

- Technology whilst advancing civilisation is making people fatter and less social.

I don't think technology is doing that as much as lack of education and the fact that unhealthy food is most accessible. Well, the fatter part. I don't see that people are less social.

And as far as when people blame all of society being bad on homosexuality, that just baffles me. I don't mean to pick on you either, Mea. Again it's a good example of how differently I see things. If I were going to put blame for evil in the world on just one place, it would be on large corporations, their greed, and how they control governments instead of people controlling governments.

[FDG]

I'm not delta, but I agree with SlackerMom. I think that people can choose to be fatter or not to be. Actually, to be fair, civilization for the first time allows this choice!

[XoX]

- The decline of Christian Values in Western Civilisation

GOOD. Values based on someone's religion shouldn't be forced upon people who aren't that religion.

I'm not sure what was meatburger's intent on this. I think he is sort of anti-Christian (or?) so I didn't quite get if that was a rant or not

Anyways I interpreted this more as a decline in the amount of people who choose to follow Christian values. Of course you can see this also from the point of view of law as western laws are based on Christian values more or less and some parts of those laws are being rewritten (and have been for a century or so). So in this sense they are forced less on people.

I'm also not sure what "Christian values" mean here as for some people they mean completely abstaining from "all fun" and for some they mean things like "don't kill, don't steal, be patient with your enemies" etc. There are many interpretations of them since it is a rather big value set.

- A large broadening of what is accepted by Society

GOOD. Society is made up of a bunch of people and each person is an individual.

This I see as a two-edged sword. I'm not for total freedom. It sounds impossible. If someone wants to legalize killing people or have sex with children (e.g. http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...822972,00.html) I just couldn't accept it even if people would democratically vote for a law which would allow such thing. Imho you always have to draw the line of right/wrong somewhere. The question remains where it should be drawn. People will never get a total agreement and concensus on this so there will be power struggles. Would you be against a law which would allow child sex if one was approved by most Americans some time in the future? How far are you willing to go with liberalism? I'm sure you have lines somewhere. You are a type anyways.

If I were going to put blame for evil in the world on just one place, it would be on large corporations, their greed, and how they control governments instead of people controlling governments.

What do you mean by "people controlling govermnents"? I mean large corporations are full of people (much/most people work there) and all people are also consumers whose decisions affect what corporations do. People also vote goverment officials. So in effect people control govermnents through corporations, consumer choices and voting. What kind of control are you referring to? I think I sort of know what you mean but how would you like to see government controlled exactly? And how would you like to change things in regards to corporations? This is anyways a bit conflicting with your previous opinion of wanting to get rid of control. So you don't want to control people on individual level but instead want to control them on a bigger scale as a "group" or you just want to control "leadership" of social structures or?

[Slacker]

People vote for their representatives and their representatives are supposed to represent them and their interests.

Of course I don't believe in freedom where there are victims. In fact, if there is a victim, then it isn't really freedom because the victim's freedom is being taken away. But I believe in freedom where there are no victims.

[XoX]

I'm not delta, but I agree with SlackerMom. I think that people can choose to be fatter or not to be. Actually, to be fair, civilization for the first time allows this choice!

Well perhaps 2/6 of all people are allowed this choice. One more thing I like to rant is the fact that when many western people talk about "people" or "civilization" they actually mean "the western people who are middle-class or higher status" which is still a pretty small minority. And even though some improvements are made on spreading the wealth at the same time the gap between rich and the poor is growing. And..well..does anyone really care? I think apathy is a growing phenomena. The "I don't care enough to do something" attitude.

Related to this...I was one day thinking about the concept in bible which suggests you should give 10% of your income to charity. I wonder how would that apply nowdays with all the taxes and everything. For example Finland has a pretty high total tax percentage (if you count income tax plus all other indirect taxes etc it is HUGE). So in effect I'm already giving many times of that amount to govermnent controlled charity. Should I give 10% in addition to this? I rant because I don't think they calculated huge taxes into the equation when they wrote that thing. I must conclude that the concept of taxes must be evil. I should have the choice where my "charity" goes. Ugh.

[Gilly]

This is a thread about DELTA rants. If you were a Delta and you wanted to rant about me offending your sensibilities as self-proclaimed guardian of all that is cool or whatever the hell you think you are, that would make sense in this thread. But no, you decided to read a thread about DELTA rants and comment on my rant. I don't go into other quadra's threads and comment from the outside on whether I like the way the express themselves. I see you seem to have some confusion about what type you are, but none of your potential types seem to be Delta.

Chill the fuck out. Why are you overreacting so drastically to a simple statement of position? I'm not trying to hijack your thread, am I?

Besides, there are legitimate arguments by numerous people for me being an ENFp. So suck on that.

[FDG]

I'm not delta, but I agree with SlackerMom. I think that people can choose to be fatter or not to be. Actually, to be fair, civilization for the first time allows this choice!

Well perhaps 2/6 of all people are allowed this choice.

Obviously, I was restricting my view to the subset of advanced civilization, since it's what we're talking about.

One more thing I like to rant is the fact that when many western people talk about "people" or "civilization" they actually mean "the western people who are middle-class or higher status" which is still a pretty small minority.

Lower middle class people have easy access to everything listed: since I am one of them, I can testify.

And even though some improvements are made on spreading the wealth at the same time the gap between rich and the poor is growing. And..well..does anyone really care? I think apathy is a growing phenomena. The "I don't care enough to do something" attitude.

This is most definitely true. Growth must continue in order for poor people to get better, irregardless of how much the disparity is. It is true, however, that it would be extremely better if the growth were to be disbalanced towards the poorer, since if both poor and rich people grow, then the adjusted ratio of allocation of created wealth is still going to make the poor poorer via inflation. I am sure that there are institution aimed towards this direction i.e. Gramen Bank and generally speaking microcredit circuits; even if they have been criticized, I've never been able to find the criticism to be compelling.

Related to this...I was one day thinking about the concept in bible which suggests you should give 10% of your income to charity. I wonder how would that apply nowdays with all the taxes and everything. For example Finland has a pretty high total tax percentage (if you count income tax plus all other indirect taxes etc it is HUGE). So in effect I'm already giving many times of that amount to govermnent controlled charity. Should I give 10% in addition to this? I rant because I don't think they calculated huge taxes into the equation when they wrote that thing. I must conclude that the concept of taxes must be evil. I should have the choice where my "charity" goes. Ugh.

Obviously the concept of taxation is evil, because it is based on the illogical concept of State, whose foundation is completely arbitrary.

[FDG]

What do you mean by "people controlling govermnents"? I mean large corporations are full of people (much/most people work there) and all people are also consumers whose decisions affect what corporations do. People also vote goverment officials. So in effect people control govermnents through corporations, consumer choices and voting. What kind of control are you referring to? I think I sort of know what you mean but how would you like to see government controlled exactly? And how would you like to change things in regards to corporations? This is anyways a bit conflicting with your previous opinion of wanting to get rid of control. So you don't want to control people on individual level but instead want to control them on a bigger scale as a "group" or you just want to control "leadership" of social structures or?

Broadly speaking: there is an interrelated web of power between corporations and government. The illegitimate powers given to government are transferred to corporations: they wouldn't even exist (except rare cases i.e. Microsoft) if they hadn't been granted such arbitrary privileges. Therefore, taking away the power from the main statal hierarchical structures should suffice in order to start a fall of the rottenmost corporations.

[Mea]

---

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Mea]

---

[Mea]

---

[cracka]

[rant] my worst rant I can think of at this time is about a situation that happened the other day.
I was out shooting pool with a friend the other night in downtown portland. So, I miss a shot and say to my friend "AH, That was gay." This guy from 2 tables over comes over and just says, "you got something against gay people?" to which of course I said I had no problem with but that's really no business of his. The guy stands there looking at me like I had just stabbed his mother with a butter knife and I asked him exactly what his problem was. He pretty much had this whole speech of how it was people like me who say things like, "That's gay." or jokingly say to a friend "you fag." who are the people that are what's wrong with society and that I should be punished for hate crimes or something along those lines etc... This of course made me somewhat steaming mad and I then unleashed my vocal cords and big word vocabulary, that never shows itself, on him arguing that he's what's wrong with this country and the fact that nobody can say shit about anything or anyone without someone else sticking their nose in other people's business. I told him how I have used those two phrases since grade school and have never been meant in any mean sort of way at all, Ever. After a little argument and making a few more points I felt like spewing at him I told him that he needs to mind his own business and fuck off. I was far from looking for a fight and was just pissed off that the conversation was even happening. (for those who may think bad of this post please don't take this as me saying anything bad about homosexuality, I couldn't care less what or who others want to share their lives with, whatever floats your boat.) <-actually I think it's sad I actually have to put this in there...
Another example, same type of situation:
A guy here at work was talking to another coworker, he was talking about HIS ex-wife and referred to her as "a stupid bitch." So, this lady that was walking by said that hearing that offended her and she went to the HR dept. with a complaint about his kind words of HIS ex wife. Long story short, the guy got fired because of some lady just walking by that decided to bitch about a conversation that she should have had absolutely no part in. -free speech my ass.
I could rant about little stuff like that for days, but why... [/rant]

[Kim]

[XoX]

It's 10% of your increase, which is net not gross, so it's after taxes.

Great... I have never really given money to charity and I was wondering if I should start (it is quite uncommon here because we are used to high taxation and to the fact that government takes care of "charity stuff") . 10% after taxes does sound a bit much though

Broadly speaking: there is an interrelated web of power between corporations and government. The illegitimate powers given to government are transferred to corporations: they wouldn't even exist (except rare cases i.e. Microsoft) if they hadn't been granted such arbitrary privileges. Therefore, taking away the power from the main statal hierarchical structures should suffice in order to start a fall of the rottenmost corporations.

This is interesting viewpoint. However I'm still wondering if we can really blame "corporations" because corporations are us basically. Many of us choose to work for them and we choose to buy their products and everything. We probably don't even care about that stuff much when we vote (if we vote). We don't use our freedom of speech (i.e. rant) enough to make a change. I mean technically people should have the tools to bring down corporations if they really wanted to. How do you think this should happen? Should it be left to politicians? I mean easiest way would be to stop bying their products.

I'm not delta, but I agree with SlackerMom. I think that people can choose to be fatter or not to be. Actually, to be fair, civilization for the first time allows this choice!

Well perhaps 2/6 of all people are allowed this choice.

Obviously, I was restricting my view to the subset of advanced civilization, since it's what we're talking about.

Umm...I didn't know about the restriction

One more thing I like to rant is the fact that when many western people talk about "people" or "civilization" they actually mean "the western people who are middle-class or higher status" which is still a pretty small minority.

Lower middle class people have easy access to everything listed: since I am one of them, I can testify.

Well...I was exaggerating And I wasn't referring only to you I was trying to be more general. But basically when I talk with people about "how the world is" or about the "state of civilization" they usually only talk about a very tiny part of world population. _Most_ of the world population is still poor and more or less living "in the past".

Obviously the concept of taxation is evil, because it is based on the illogical concept of State, whose foundation is completely arbitrary.

These are interesting points. State or country is actually a pretty new invention. I wonder if there are compact studies somewhere about how they have affected people's lives. Perhaps they have managed to accelerate development but also managed to provoke massive amounts of wars.

[Slacker]

Corporations aren't us. Corporations are given the rights of individuals, but they don't have the responsibilities of individuals (i.e. a conscience, a sense of responsibility to people). The only responsibility corporations have is to make money for their stockholders. If a corporation doesn't make money for its stockholders, at any cost, then the board of directors will be fired and new people will be placed who will make money, at any cost.

[meatburger]

Hehe! Holy moly fire up! I dont particularly want to participate on this thread too much as its pretty off tap. My points were very general i didn't elaborate on everything i wrote.

I dont like dogs and lightning and thunder

Omg you just listed two of the things i like most in this world . In a world of a diminishing environment seeing nature making itself known in such a raw way its awesome!. I love dogs. Everyone could learn from dogs if they want to know how to get on with people. What creature would be among the last to die out? The dog. Along with the cat the sheep, the cow etc. Dogs evolved with us.

Slacker mum - I listed both positives and negatives in my thread, and yes you correctly identified what i thought was negative and positive.
I actually did contractict myself in my post. Im not quite sure how it all works but even though people are people are becomming more individual(which is good) i still see a lot of how Advertising and the media affects us.
We are still not immune to seeing beautiful people on tv and in magazines and raising our standards because of it. These people are airbrushed to all buggery they are not real!!!!

Xox Yeah your exactly right i meant decline of values like thou shalt not steal ect. I think people (as a whole) aren't being instilled with those values as strongly. Its partly due to Society slackening and partly due to parenting.

I agree people can choose to be fat thats fine and i dont particularly have a problem with it. Just as long as i dont have to pay for them or they dont whine. What i meant was people are more unhealthy. No one really "wants to be fat" though. They are just too sedentery and tempted by bad foods. Dont worry i will probablly end up quite fat myself one day

Slacker when you dont see people on a whole are not more scared / confused than before you have more experienced than me. I only have the benefit of growing up in one place so maybe this is not the case. I get this feeling from when i go into town and i see all the fights and people yelling out trying to get attention. I see it on the faces of 1000's of guys in the city all trying to find a woman and realising on the outside at least they are pretty much the same as every other guy.

What about all the song lyrics?? If you watch the top 20 theres songs like this:
Im bossy!!! Im the meanest bitch on the block etc
I dont need a man, i dont need a ring to make me complete:
shes a man eater - make you work hard, play hard, spend hard etc
Take me back to your house you house, just take me home.
Rhianna - Unfaithful
You dont know about me - I can find another guy like you in a second
Then theres songs on the other side of the coin that are like all about finding love etc.

I personally like those songs they are catchy, but shit i can see how all this stuff confuses people. The western world especially seems to be getting a lot more complicated.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[aestrivex]

And as far as when people blame all of society being bad on homosexuality, that just baffles me. I don't mean to pick on you either, Mea. Again it's a good example of how differently I see things. If I were going to put blame for evil in the world on just one place, it would be on large corporations, their greed, and how they control governments instead of people controlling governments.

Ooo, I just saw this.. > <
Umm, I'm not really blaming, it's just something I've observed. I definitely accept opposing views, I mean not everyone thinks/feels way about things right? :wink:
However, I can accept the way things are, though I might not see it as "good".

this is probably grasping at someone who doesn't want me here, but i challenge you to name any one negative effect that homosexuality could possibly have on society, besides the obvious question of "immorality" that evangelical fundamentalists have given it. "it's disgusting" is also invalid.

[Mea]

---

[jewels]

Giligan, what you just wrote, an ENFp would never say! You're an ENTP. Especially because you thought you were objectively stating a thought about why you didn't like someone's post, and that shouldn't bother anyone, right? But ENFPs see it completely differently.

This is a thread about DELTA rants. If you were a Delta and you wanted to rant about me offending your sensibilities as self-proclaimed guardian of all that is cool or whatever the hell you think you are, that would make sense in this thread. But no, you decided to read a thread about DELTA rants and comment on my rant. I don't go into other quadra's threads and comment from the outside on whether I like the way the express themselves. I see you seem to have some confusion about what type you are, but none of your potential types seem to be Delta.

Chill the fuck out. Why are you overreacting so drastically to a simple statement of position? I'm not trying to hijack your thread, am I?

Besides, there are legitimate arguments by numerous people for me being an ENFp. So suck on that.

[Mea]

---

[FDG]

This is interesting viewpoint. However I'm still wondering if we can really blame "corporations" because corporations are us basically. Many of us choose to work for them and we choose to buy their products and everything.

Yeah, that's not the problem. If it was only for the money they get, they wouldn't still be able to build their power-trusts all over the world if it weren't for the aid of states. I am not against corporations, mind you: I am against corporations whose power comes from state ailments. Why is this? Simply because the state builds its authority on a self-certification (I guess you might be surprised but actually law makes no mistery of this: every standard law course takes a positivist approach, which means that norms are build over other norms, regressing to a single one which is built over...nothing), and gives its self-proclaimed powers to corporations - not directly, but it still does.

I mean technically people should have the tools to bring down corporations if they really wanted to. How do you think this should happen?

I think there are some steps to follow, none of which comprises the dismantle of corporations:

1)Completely avoid any intervention of statal powers in corporations
2)Decentralize the power to the max
3)Give the state only the minium allowed amount of power (now, as for how much this minimum is, I tend to agree with Nozick's miniarchist's opinions, but this is another topic of discussion)

Should it be left to politicians? I mean easiest way would be to stop bying their products.

Again, I don't think that the problem is in regard to the products. I believe that if something is bought, then people have decided that it's the best course of action, and therefore attempts at boycotting aren't even fair.