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Thread: UDP's enneagram type

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    Default UDP's enneagram type

    I am feeling more comfortable with being E1... though I really do feel that I was E5 for a time, and ultimately that is what I relate to most - E1 is just my preferred way of dealing with the world - my 'character'. The real me, however, is a quite detached entity.

    So for what it's worth I'll say I'm 1w9. Sound right?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    agreed. 4 wing also seems plausible.
    IEI subtype

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    So what is the enneagram equivalent of duality? What numbers match up best with each other?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    So what is the enneagram equivalent of duality? What numbers match up best with each other?
    there is no "duality" per se. the enneagram institute has a section of its site devoted entirely to how each type gets along with every other type, but they all seem to be pretty bland (at least those that i've seen; i haven't looked at them very thoroughly at all) and offer both positives and negatives of the relationships.

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    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Ones are often intelligent and independent and can easily mistake themselves for Fives, but unlike Fives, Ones are primarily people of action, not thought. Ones tend to worry and are prone to anxiety and can sometimes mistype as Sixes, but they are far less affiliative than Sixes and their standards are not reached by seeking consensus with a group. Finally, the relentless pursuit of perfection can take its toll and lead to depression. At such times, a One can mistype as a Four. But Fours have a tendency towards self-indulgence whereas Ones are self-denying. Fours are emotionally expressive; Ones are emotionally constrained.
    http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/type1.php

    I'm definitely a man of thought.
    Thought has lead me into inevitable action.

    That is why I say 5 to 1 has been my path.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    one thing regarding the enneagram that i find unusual and drastically different from socionics is that in the enneagram, my type has never been in doubt, nor has the wing or the variant. since the first time i ever became acquainted with the enneagram the five profile has always fit best. i don't think i've ever tested as something other than a 5, although the wing has probably varied.

    nonetheless, while 5 or 5w6 descriptions may not necessarily convey all of the aspects of my personality, almost nothing in 5 or 5w6 descriptions is at all amiss in my life; unlike certain aspects of socionics, which result largely in confusion and uncertainty, there has never been any doubt as to the appropriateness of the enneagram description.

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    Good types for a 1, I'd say 2, and 6. Avoid 7.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Enneagram

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    I am feeling more comfortable with being E1... though I really do feel that I was E5 for a time, and ultimately that is what I relate to most - E1 is just my preferred way of dealing with the world - my 'character'. The real me, however, is a quite detached entity.
    That is probably a very accurate way of describing what it is like to be an INTj. It makes perfect sense to me. My guess is that for example oyburger could agree with you here.

    So for what it's worth I'll say I'm 1w9. Sound right?
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    one thing regarding the enneagram that i find unusual and drastically different from socionics is that in the enneagram, my type has never been in doubt, nor has the wing or the variant. since the first time i ever became acquainted with the enneagram the five profile has always fit best. i don't think i've ever tested as something other than a 5, although the wing has probably varied.

    nonetheless, while 5 or 5w6 descriptions may not necessarily convey all of the aspects of my personality, almost nothing in 5 or 5w6 descriptions is at all amiss in my life; unlike certain aspects of socionics, which result largely in confusion and uncertainty, there has never been any doubt as to the appropriateness of the enneagram description.
    I agree. I think it suggests that Expat's latest version of how the Enneagram correlates with Socionics is more correct than his earlier versions. The prototype for Enneagram type 5 would be the INTp rather than the INTj then. That you relate more to 5w6 is also what one should expect if we compare you and me, since you are more of a logical subtype of INTp than I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    since you are more of a logical subtype of INTp than I am.
    He just makes much more sense, and you don't. No relation to subtype. Also, you don't really have a 4 wing, 4 wingers INTps are 10000 times more reasonable, less hard headed, and less idiotic than you.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Good types for a 1, I'd say 2, and 6. Avoid 7.
    Yes, I mostly agree if I don't make any correlation with Socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    I agree. I think it suggests that Expat's latest version of how the Enneagram correlates with Socionics is more correct than his earlier versions. The prototype for Enneagram type 5 would be the INTp rather than the INTj then.
    As I mentioned in the thread on Jung's types, now I think that Enneatype 5 is a direct descendant of Jung's Introverted Thinking type, and that one was a mix of INTj and INTp, but I guess more INTp than INTj, yes. But, still, it's a non-type in my opinion. I think that someone identifying strongly with 5 is a better indication of what Socionics type the person is not than of what the person is.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    As I mentioned in the thread on Jung's types, now I think that Enneatype 5 is a direct descendant of Jung's Introverted Thinking type, and that one was a mix of INTj and INTp, but I guess more INTp than INTj, yes. But, still, it's a non-type in my opinion. I think that someone identifying strongly with 5 is a better indication of what Socionics type the person is not than of what the person is.
    So since E5 doesn't exist in your opinion, would there always be another appropriate type for someone such as niffweed who identifies strongly with 5? Or is this just a limitation of the theory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Good types for a 1, I'd say 2, and 6. Avoid 7.
    Noted
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    5 seems like a generic introverted excuse type, IMO.

    Ennegram kind of seems like a stereotypical highschool TV sitcom, with each type being one of 9 very basic stereotypes. Not that socionics is totally far away from that (in it's initial understandings - which is my current understanding of the Egram), but it just seems a bit more so that way.

    But that being said, Type 5 is the stereotypical quite, appearing intelligent, detached person.


    That is, of course, a very superficial reaction.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    So since E5 doesn't exist in your opinion, would there always be another appropriate type for someone such as niffweed who identifies strongly with 5? Or is this just a limitation of the theory?
    My own opinion is that the "true" types - in the sense of coming closest to reflecting real people - are the 16 Socionics types. Some Enneagram types are also good representations, in some cases providing another insight. For instance, 7 is a "broad" type for all EP temperament types.

    But 5 is just a mix of two different types, INTp and INTj, so there is no individual who is really, completely, a 5, although both INTjs and INTps will identify with it best among the 9 enneagram types. That is how I see it.


    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    5 seems like a generic introverted excuse type, IMO.

    Ennegram kind of seems like a stereotypical highschool TV sitcom, with each type being one of 9 very basic stereotypes. Not that socionics is totally far away from that (in it's initial understandings - which is my current understanding of the Egram), but it just seems a bit more so that way.

    But that being said, Type 5 is the stereotypical quite, appearing intelligent, detached person.


    That is, of course, a very superficial reaction.
    As I said elsewhere, 5 is a direct descendant of Jung's Introverted Thinking type, and I think he lumped together, precisely as "quiet, appeating intelligent, detached" people, in one type, mainly INTjs and INTps but (who knows) perhaps some ISTps etc too.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by science as magic
    http://socionics.com/sta/sta-1-r.html?0:::

    i've always been fascinated with this test. i do not think it is necessarily a reliable tool for determining type however i do not see the point in that. i think that in going from a broader characterization to a more compressed form the entire essence of what is being conveyed is lost. i think we would be much better off if we just characterized ourselves with descriptive words as that is a more accurate/precise method of capturing the individual. then we could speak about whether or not avaricious people get along with one another or not rather than whether or not ixxj gets along with xxFp or what have you. socionics basically represents specific word clusters with names. where socionics errs is in the assumption that those clusters are somehow more significant than the other groupings which remain nameless. food for thought from a hard-hearted orderless affectionate materialist
    ...Ugh, for some time I've seen socionics as the most awkward sort of system. It cuts off half (or near half) of the natural personality... then it leaves people grasping futilly in the air, as it were, for signs of that missing half.... And we see day after day, people talking about "socionics type" but making clear that they are really comfortable in their understanding of socionics (having read about all the translated material from the Russian that exists, including the founder's own perspective); rather, they seek -- vainly -- clues for that which Model-A does not explain, searching for them in mound after mound of Model-A reliant material.

    It's like they are building a house of cards, spinning their wheels so to speak in leu of a better understanding they are powerless to provide themselves. Like helpless infants who can only rely on the mother they have known, unaware that she is by her nature unable to provide the nourishment they seek, and unwilling to embrace a new mother....

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    I took an ennegram test a long time ago, have no idea what I got.

    Would taking any test online be a good way to figure out my type? Or is it something you need to read about and asses yourself?
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
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    I'd say it varies. I started on the path to finding my type by coming up as INTJ in an MBTI test, so I think if nothing else it can be a starting point.
    ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
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    for whatever it may be worth, 100% of enneagram tests that i have taken have produced the correct result (if wings and variant are eliminated from consideration in evaluating the "correct result")

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    Says I'm type 2
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
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    I'm a type 11

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Ones are often intelligent and independent and can easily mistake themselves for Fives, but unlike Fives, Ones are primarily people of action, not thought. Ones tend to worry and are prone to anxiety and can sometimes mistype as Sixes, but they are far less affiliative than Sixes and their standards are not reached by seeking consensus with a group. Finally, the relentless pursuit of perfection can take its toll and lead to depression. At such times, a One can mistype as a Four. But Fours have a tendency towards self-indulgence whereas Ones are self-denying. Fours are emotionally expressive; Ones are emotionally constrained.
    http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/type1.php

    I'm definitely a man of thought.
    Thought has lead me into inevitable action.

    That is why I say 5 to 1 has been my path.
    Maybe it is more true to say that my thought has led me to a place where action is necessary. It feels like.... the more I detach myself and focus on purely theoretical things, the less appealing. So actually, I find the bold part to be quite true. If I had to restrain myself to being "a man of thought", I would be a very, very dissatisfied person.


    (But in my youth, I was not at all inclined towards action>thought)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ...there is no individual who is really, completely, a 5...
    They instead have a 4-Wing or a 6-Wing.
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ...there is no individual who is really, completely, a 5...
    They instead have a 4-Wing or a 6-Wing.
    No, I disagree with that -- but never mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Says I'm type 2
    Type 2 describes essentially a Socionics ESFj, but I can see any Fe-ego type testing as 2.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    ...there is no individual who is really, completely, a 5...
    They instead have a 4-Wing or a 6-Wing.
    No, I disagree with that -- but never mind.
    Why?
    [Stormy] [LII]

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    Expat: Perhaps I am just a 5w4, sx/sp/so who disintegrates to type 7 and therefore believes herself to be socionics ILE. Actually, I am quite sure of being 5w4 sx/sp/so (very strongly sx) and only about 90% certain of being ILE and not ILI. In your opinion, why would ILE + 5w4 be unlikely?
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    one thing regarding the enneagram that i find unusual and drastically different from socionics is that in the enneagram, my type has never been in doubt, nor has the wing or the variant. since the first time i ever became acquainted with the enneagram the five profile has always fit best. i don't think i've ever tested as something other than a 5, although the wing has probably varied.

    nonetheless, while 5 or 5w6 descriptions may not necessarily convey all of the aspects of my personality, almost nothing in 5 or 5w6 descriptions is at all amiss in my life; unlike certain aspects of socionics, which result largely in confusion and uncertainty, there has never been any doubt as to the appropriateness of the enneagram description.
    The same with me. They enneagram description of my type is very spot on, no type in MBTI or socionics come nearly as close in describing my personality/behavior etc.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan

    The same with me. They enneagram description of my type is very spot on, no type in MBTI or socionics come nearly as close in describing my personality/behavior etc.
    which one is it, out of curiosity?

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    6w5
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    My base type is definitely a 5.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    My base type is definitely a 5.
    this is new. what happened to all of the identification with E1?

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    Hmm........



    Personal Growth Recommendations
    for Enneagram Type Fives

    * Learn to notice when your thinking and speculating takes you out of the immediacy of your experience. Your mental capacities can be an extraordinary gift, but only can also be a trap when you use them to retreat from contact with yourself and others. Stay connected with your physicality.
    * You tend to be extremely intense and so high-strung that you find it difficult to relax and unwind. Make an effort to learn to calm down in a healthy way, without drugs or alcohol. Exercising or using biofeedback techniques will help channel some of your tremendous nervous energy. Meditation, jogging, yoga, and dancing are especially helpful for your type.
    * You see many possibilities but often do not know how to choose among them or judge which is more or less important. When you are caught in your fixation, a sense of perspective can be missing, and with it the ability to make accurate assessments. At such time, it can be helpful to get the advice of someone whose judgment you trust while you are gaining perspective on your situation. Doing this can also help you trust someone else, a difficulty for your type.
    * Notice when you are getting intensely involved in projects that do not necessarily support your self-esteem, confidence, or life situation. It is possible to follow many different fascinating subjects, games, and pastimes, but they can become huge distractions from what you know really need to do. Decisive action will bring more confidence than learning more facts or acquiring more unrelated skills.
    * Fives tend to find it difficult to trust people, to open up to them emotionally, or to make themselves accessible in various ways. Their awareness of potential problems in relationships may tend to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is important to remember that having conflicts with others is not unusual and that the healthy thing is to work them out rather than reject attachments with people by withdrawing into isolation. Having one or two intimate friends whom you trust enough to have conflicts with will enrich your life greatly.
    Personal Growth Recommendations
    for Enneagram Type Ones

    * Learn to relax. Take some time for yourself, without feeling that everything is up to you or that what you do not accomplish will result in chaos and disaster. Mercifully, the salvation of the world does not depend on you alone, even though you may sometimes feel it does.
    * You have a lot to teach others and are probably a good teacher, but do not expect others to change immediately. What is obvious to you may not be as obvious to them, especially if they are not used to being as self-disciplined and objective about themselves as you are about yourself. Many people may also want to do what is right and may agree with you in principle but for various reasons simply cannot change right away. The fact that others do not change immediately according to your prescriptions does not mean that they will not change sometime in the future. Your words and above all, your example may do more good than you realize, although they may take longer than you expect. So have patience.
    * It is easy for you to work yourself up into a lather about the wrongdoings of others. And it may sometimes be true that they are wrong. But what is it to you? Your irritation with them will do nothing to help them see another way of being. Similarly, beware of your constant irritation with your own "shortcomings." Does your own harsh self-criticism really help you to improve? Or does it simply make you tense, nervous, and self-doubting? Learn to recognize the attacks of your superego and how they undermine you rather than helping you.
    * It is important for you to get in touch with your feelings, particularly your unconscious impulses. You may find that you are uneasy with your emotions and your sexual and aggressive impulses—in short, with the messy human things that make us human. It might be beneficial to keep a journal or to get into some kind of group therapy or other group work both to develop your emotions and to see that others will not condemn you for having human needs and limitations.
    * Your Achilles' heel is your self-righteous anger. You get angry easily and are offended by what seems to you to be the perverse refusal of others to do the right thing—as you have defined it. Try to step back and see that your anger alienates people so that they cannot hear many of the good things you have to say. Further, your own repressed anger may well be giving you an ulcer or high blood pressure and is a harbinger of worse things to come.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think that someone identifying strongly with 5 is a better indication of what Socionics type the person is not than of what the person is.
    Good call


    I think the best thing to say about my Enneagram type is: I am INTj
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    6w5
    I would have never guessed the 5 wing honestly.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG

    I would have never guessed the 5 wing honestly.
    I do not think it is obvious here either(thankfully ). I think if you met me or knew more about me (which is unlikely because I am a total loner hermit :wink: ) then it would probably be more obvious because I have quite overwhelming 5 traits IRL.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

  39. #39
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I've been wondering about my own instinctual variant lately, so for those of like interest...

    Quote Originally Posted by [url
    http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/chvar.htm[/url]]Descriptions of Enneagram Instinctual Variants

    The information on this page was taken from Thomas Condon's site The Changeworks, an excellent enneagram and self-help resource site on the net. Check it out today!

    The three instinctual variants are Self-Preservation, Social, and Intimate (also known as Sexual or One-to-One). They reflect the three basic desires in our human nature; the desire to protect the self, the desire to interact with others, and the desire for intimacy or sexuality. A person's instinctual variant is determined by which common issues constellate around a particular variant. For example, a Social person's prime issues have to deal with how they relate to others, get along with them, be seen by them, etc. The instinctual variants are fairly new and not much information and research is available on them, so they are an optional way of viewing the Enneagram.



    Ones

    Self-Preservation
    Characterized by a tendency towards worry and negative anticipation, especially as it relates to material well-being. Can seem a little like Sixes. They fret about how to avoid making mistakes that could jeopardize survival. Petty, finicky quality; could seem "penny-wise and pound-foolish." Sense of being undeserving or inadequate - try to compensate with worry. As a parent or friend, they might be critical and nurturing by turns, wanting to protect you from the same negative consequences they worry about. Self-preservation Ones are not plentiful in movies, but some good examples are Hector Alterio in The Official Story, Melvyn Douglas in I Never Sang For My Father, Joel McCrea in Ride The High Country, and Jessica Tandy in Driving Miss Daisy.

    Intimate
    May be preoccupied with their romantic partner. Have high expectations based on having idealized their beloved. Their partner is supposed to be perfect man or woman. One's reaction is jealous judgment if their beloved acts in less-than-ideal ways. Jealous Ones may drive partners away with endless criticism. Can have a dependent tendency related to the low side of 2. Most intimate Ones have a 2 wing. Also there's a melancholy yearning and fear of abandonment fueling the One's criticism. Connection to the low side of 4. I found very few intimate Ones in movies but Geraldine Page in The Beguiled displays some of this theme. In The Official Story, Hector Alterio's basic subtype is self-preservation but he has eruptions of jealousy that are based on his high expectations of his wife. Also Cliff Robertson shows this theme to a degree in the movie Picnic.

    Social
    Social subtype Ones are everywhere in the movies, probably because they create dramatic friction. Characterized by a preoccupation with rules and how they should apply to (other) people's behavior. Tend to moralize and apply old standards inflexibly to each new situation. Believe they are representatives of a larger social order or tradition. They're not, of course - acting as if they represent the rules is their psychological defense. Usually had great uncertainty in childhood, at least one undependable parent. Made themselves rigid to feel strong, aligned with the rules to contain their anxiety. Tend to depersonalize their own feelings, hope to be above criticism. Social Ones can have either wing, though a 9 wing brings rules that are more abstract and inhuman-sounding. Examples in the movies include Glenn Close in The World According To Garp, Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Alec Guinness in The Bridge On The River Kwai, Raul Julia in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Joan Plowright in Enchanted April, Jack Lemmon in Missing, Katharine Hepburn in Rooster Cogburn.



    Twos

    Self-Preservation
    Self-preservation Twos often harbor a striking sense of entitlement. May act superior to others and expect preferential treatment that reinforces their pride. Can seem shameless in their expectation of pampering. Behind this attitude is a logic that says, "I give and do so much for others, I deserve to be treated as someone special." Like an unconscious collection of fees for sacrifices made. Others who encounter this attitude are often amazed at a self-preservation Two's self- importance and diva-like behavior. Real-life people with this subtype often have a 3 wing. Dip easily to the low side of 8 when angry. Not many movie examples, but Kathy Bates displays some of this theme in Misery. Glynis Johns has some of it in Zelly And Me, as does Madonna in Truth Or Dare. A real-life self-preservation Two is American hotelier Leona Helmsley.

    Intimate
    Tend to act seductive and aggressive by turns. Basic interest is in finding romantic union. Generally confuse sexual desirability with being loved and valued. Act receptively interested in others, use inviting touches. May ooze some combination of charm and sexuality. When they encounter resistance will begin to push and challenge. Try to find a way around the other's objection. May go militant and angrily blame (connection to 8). Behind these flare-ups is a melancholy desire for total enmeshed connectedness to another. Yearning is related to the low side of 4. Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were is an exact depiction of this subtype. Other examples include William Hurt in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Ray Liotta in Unlawful Entry, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

    Social
    Twos with this subtype are notable for their ambition, particularly to be publicly recognized as someone special. Seek attention either directly from their own efforts or via affiliation with powerful people. In the former scenario, a Two works to draw an audience through socially useful works or some kind of performing. Confuse being noticed with being loved. Can sometimes act provocative or obnoxious as this is better than being ignored. Might also marry someone influential and concentrate their energies on the spouse's ambitions. Can groom their children to become achievers. Stage mothers and political spouses are possible roles. Often have a 3 wing but a 1 wing is possible. Video examples include: Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Angela Lans-bury, The Manchurian Candidate; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Marisa Paredes, High Heels; Rosalind Russell, Gypsy.



    Threes

    Self-Preservation
    Have a preoccupation with acquiring material security as a way to calm core anxieties about survival. Some grow up poor and focus on amassing wealth. Concentrate on doing well, having enough, especially of the right things. Irony is that the strategy doesn't really work - a Three could amass millions and still, say, harbor a morbid fear of dying broke. Insecurity fuels a sense that enough money is never enough. Movie examples include Wesley Snipes in White Men Can't Jump, Rebecca DeMornay in Risky Business and Charlie Sheen in Wall Street.

    Intimate
    Intimate Threes mask themselves with an image of what a sexually appealing man or woman is. They play roles in romantic relationships hoping to get love or admiration. Image is based on community or cultural standards of desirability or a given partner's expectations. If not committed to a specific partner then they will project an image generally and seek sexual conquests. Intimate Threes in the movies can be sexual imposters or suave, attractive ideals of masculinity or femininity. Female characters tend to be beautiful out-of-reach Sirens. Examples include: John Malkovich, Dangerous Liaisons; Cybill Shepherd, Texasville; Richard Gere, American Gigolo, Sommersby; Sharon Stone, Basic Instinct; Kathleen Turner, Body Heat.

    Social
    Social Threes are often extremely status-conscious. Most confuse their inner self with the world's badges, honors and totems. Measure themselves by money, position, awards or results. Strive to match group standards and have the right credentials. How they rank in the eyes of others is most important. May be materialistic but with an eye towards the best brand names so as to be identified with the product's status. The excesses of this subtype make for fine morality plays about the hollowness of fame and status. Movie examples include: Charlie Sheen, Wall Street; Robert Redford, Downhill Racer; Mary Tyler Moore, Ordinary People; Faye Dunaway, Network.



    Fours

    Self-Preservation
    People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me." Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing. Movie examples include: Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa; Judy Davis, Impromptu.

    Intimate
    Fours with this theme tend to be highly competitive in close relationships but also more generally. With a mate they are prone to jealousy. Want to be the most important person in mate's life. Could be jealous of a partner's past relationships, maybe want to be the only person the partner has ever loved. Related to the dependent side of 2. More broadly can be consumed by professional envy. Long to best others in their work. Can jealously measure their contributions. Petty about keeping score. Want recognition for their uniqueness. Take away from successes of others when threatened. See F. Murray Abraham in Amadeus, Harriet Andersson in Cries And Whispers, Nick Nolte in New York Stories.

    Social
    Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the "normal" world around them. Can be highly self-critical and feel ashamed for their deviance from imagined group norms. Sensitive to criticism. May romanticize their defects but feel bad about themselves anyway. If they have a 3 wing, may cover their shame with charm. Can also seek status or be driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them (Danny DeVito, Batman Returns). With a 5 wing, can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude (Meryl Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman).



    Fives

    Self-Preservation
    Chief defensive tendency is to withdraw. Sensitive to feeling saturated by the world, Fives with this subtype lose their sense of privacy easily. Can feel knocked over by people's expectations. In isolation they refind their lost sense of balance and build up to the next round of social stresses. More alienated than the other subtypes. May hide in books, live alone or need their own room where they can close themselves off. Take little from others. Sometimes thin. Likely to hoard time and space. Have solitary hobbies and interests, seek comfort and solace alone. Examples include: Kerry Fox, An Angel At My Table; Gena Rowlands, Another Woman; Robin Williams, Awakenings.

    Intimate
    Intimate Fives trust only a few people but then do so totally. Friendship is based on the sharing of confidences. Intimacy is equivalent to exchanging secrets. Can go from enigmatic, deliberate distance to intense, unguarded openness. Seductive invitation to sharing secrets; seek a total merging. When entranced can be a little kinky. A great movie example is James Spader in sex, lies and videotape. Sharing intimate sexual secrets is what he gets women to do on videotape. Both Monsieur Hire and Mr. Lemorne in The Vanishing show this theme albeit perversely. Ben Kingsley in Turtle Diary also enjoys secrecy and is a little more normal.

    Social
    Social Fives connect with groups of like-minded people. Enjoy living in the flow of a group interest, sharing knowledge and affiliations. May prefer specialized or esoteric areas of knowledge that exclude all but the initiated. Could live in high society, know the "right" people, belong to the best clubs. Might enjoy speaking a professional language that few people understand. Can be quite friendly but, at times, terrific snobs. Romanticize secret elitist group membership; concerned with titles, degrees, credentials, etc. Realm of academia. Peter O'Toole in Goodbye, Mr. Chips is a good movie example. Also, Anthony Hopkins in 84 Charing Cross Road.



    Sixes

    Self-Preservation
    Self-preservation Sixes often display a personal warmth that is meant to defang the potential hostility of others. If they sense aggression or disapproval in the environment, they may counterphobically zero in on it. Use humor, charm, self-depreciation to make friends out of possible enemies. Can flatter like Twos, play themselves down, work to maintain other people's affection. Act vulnerable, invite rescue. Ingratiating, but more nervously dependent than other Six subtypes. Also less in touch with their own hostility. Their home environment is sometimes important. May feel like their house is a fortress against the outside world's dangers. Worry about their ability to survive; have scary "worst-that-can-happen" fantasies. A good movie example is Bill Murray in What about Bob?. Also Teri Garr in Tootsie and The Cowardly Lion in The Wizard of Oz.

    Intimate
    Sixes with this subtype tend to act strong or seductive when insecure. They are much more likely to be counterphobic, especially the men. May seem like Eights, take risks, talk tough. Act powerful and in control at the times when they feel most frightened. Worry about looking weak, having their fears show. May act arrogant but aren't really. Some study martial arts or seek a way of life that makes them strong. Beauty is another focus; trying to seem attractive so as to contain fear, get approval, and distract others. May consciously hide behind a seductive mask. Unlike Threes, Sixes know they are hiding. Can act cool and patrician or be flirty. Some have a focus on aesthetics. This subtype often has a stronger connection to the vanity of 3. Movie examples include: Humphrey Bogart, Treasure Of The Sierra Madre; Holly Hunter, Broadcast News; Anjelica Huston, The Grifters; Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio, Class Action; Nick Nolte, The Prince Of Tides; Janine Turner, Northern Exposure. In Batman Returns, Michelle Pfeiffer turns from a meek phobic Six into a fiesty counterphobic Six. When phobic, she is a social subtype (see below). Her alter ego, the counterphobic Catwoman, is an intimate subtype.

    Social
    Social Sixes tend to be dutiful and especially dependent upon authority. More often phobic than counterphobic. Often dedicated to a cause. When acting alone they will still refer to others in their mind for safety and agreement. May want to see your opinion first before they will offer their own. Could change their mind to agree with you. Often align with a group or a cause and will follow the rules loyally, trying to please the boss. "Company men." Focus on a social or work context and try to be ideal within it. Could persecute others in the name of their group's ideals. May imagine they can't live without the group's support: "If I don't play by the rules I'll be out on the street selling pencils." Later there's inevitable disillusionment. Then Six starts grumbling that they are not appreciated. Could go passive/aggressive, resent a boss they had romanticized. Connection to 9 is stronger with this subtype. Movie examples include: Wendy Hughes, Lonely Hearts; Ben Kingsley, Pascali's Island; Martin Landau, Crimes And Misdemeanors; Jack Lemmon, The Apartment; Michelle Pfeiffer, Batman Returns; Sheila McCarthy, I've Heard The Mermaids Singing; Martin Short, Innerspace.



    Sevens

    Self-Preservation
    Self-preservation Sevens are a little confusing since they tend to be highly social. Characterized by a drive towards family and shared group experiences. Enjoy operating within their real or chosen family, checking in with a group of like-minded people. Chronic sharing on a circuit. People in the group are the source of interesting information and stimulation. Don't feel burdened or trapped by duties like a social Seven. Loyal to family, often have a 6 wing. Defend their circle and castle. Barricade, find safety in numbers. This subtype goes with the image of the "party animal." Movie examples include Auntie Mame and, especially, Hugh Hefner in Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time.

    Intimate
    Intimate Sevens tend to garnish and embellish reality with fantasy. Intimate relationships are often thought of as shared experimental adventures, and the Seven perceives their partner through a veil of imagination. May romanticize others as a way to avoid the limits and boredom of mundane life with the same old someone. Can be more involved with their fantasy of the partner than with the real person. Tentative, distractible, impersonal, may have a wandering eye. Some have great difficulty with commitment and seem fickle as they move on to the next fantasy projected onto the next new person. Don Juan scenario. More generally, intimate Sevens have a tendency to be suggestible. They may especially seek the new with the fascinated enthusiasm of a faddist, stepping into future fantasies to avoid the present. Good movie examples include: Julie Christie, Darling; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Karen Landry, Patti Rocks; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being.

    Social
    Social Sevens often feel a tension between duty to others and the desire to escape. Tend to feel responsible for the people around them and experience that as a confining burden. They then react against the weight of obligation, seeking variety and craving change. When entranced, can be highly irresponsible. When awakened, they make peace with commitment and sacrifice and are often very stable and generous. Often an idealism, sometimes a stronger connection to 1. Serving something beyond themselves, dutiful. Can be from a large family where they had lots of responsibility, eldest child. With an 8 wing they tend to fight the sense of burden harder. Movie examples include: Beau Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Cher, Mermaids; Tom Hanks, Nothing In Common; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field, James Woods, Joshua, Then and Now. Also Christine Lahti in Housekeeping, though her basic subtype is intimate.



    Eights

    Self-Preservation
    Self-preservation Eights often grow up poor or struggling. Food, home, money may be crucial. Generally seek control over their immediate environment and may worry about survival. Tend to value things over people. Maintaining order and material security are important. Eights with this subtype have a stronger connection to 5. Can be materialistic and feel deserving about it; more often have a 7 wing. Could be collectors or have prized objects. Sometimes domineering towards those within their sphere. Might preach an ethic of selfishness - justify their bullying of intimates as necessary to "toughen them up" for the hard world outside. Life is a jungle, only the strong survive. Survivalist mentality, territorial imperatives, angry at family members because they threaten household objects. Hiding in and presiding over their castle; sometimes extra Fiveish. Good movie examples include: Barry Corbin ("Maurice"), Northern Exposure; Robert De Niro, This Boy's Life; Peter Falk, A Woman Under The Influence; Jackie Gleason, Nothing In Common; Gena Rowlands, Gloria; Denzel Washington, Malcolm X.

    Intimate
    Want stability, loyalty and predictability in close relationships. May feel easily betrayed, and are prone to suspicion. Can love deeply, have a genuine close-up interest in and concern for spouse. Since life is dangerous they want to choose close allies carefully. Attached to the idea of being able to trust completely. Lots of testing of their partner's motives. If they pass the tests then the Eight relaxes. When entranced, this can lead to possessive obsession, and a need to dominate and control partner. Intimate Eights can get codependent, jealous, hooked into the other. Sometimes can't let go; their partner's every move is (over)reacted to. When very unhealthy, spousal abuse scenarios are possible. Stalking, vengeful vows to follow other to the ends of the earth, etc. Connected to the low side of 2. Intimate Eights sometimes play socially rebellious "bad kid" roles.

    Social
    Social Eights are often loyal to a group and conceive of friendship as a pact of mutual protection. Want everyone to benefit; group's cohesion and welfare is most important to them. Often oriented to family, honest, hold themselves accountable to others. May be the group's protector or provider. Emphasis on cooperation. When healthy, they are aggressively blustery but will back down and apologize when they've been unfair. More able to say the Three Little Words -"I was wrong." Stronger connection to 2, can emotionally switch places with others in their chosen group. As friends they want to protect what's soft or young in you and appreciate the same in return. Hostility directed towards outside forces who threatens the group's welfare. Movie examples include: Richard Gere, Internal Affairs; John Cassavetes, I'm Almost Not Crazy, Tempest; Gene Hackman, Class Action; Nick Nolte, Q & A; Ron Silver, Reversal Of Fortune; Elaine Strick, September.



    Nines

    Self-Preservation
    Preoccupied with physical comfort, maintaining habits and satisfying appetites. The image of the lazy couch potato goes with this subtype. Strategy for getting along is to ask as little of life as possible. Can have a love of the minimal and enjoy the repetition of known routines. Distract themselves with pleasant domestic activities. Live conservatively. Consume food and drink for anaesthesia. May have large appetites, drug addictions, be physically slow moving. Many good movie examples including Gary Farmer, Powwow Highway; Albert Finney, Rich In Love; Lillian Gish, The Whales Of August; Elliott Gould, Little Murders; William Hurt, The Accidental Tourist; Wallace Shawn, My Dinner With Andre.

    Intimate
    Focused on an ideal of romantic union. Get lost in one relationship or in the yearning to have one. High expectations of partner. Sometimes sound melancholy like a Four. Prone to jealousy. May settle on someone and then grow critical and have a wandering eye. Can also deny their partner's flaws and idealize them to stay in union. Another scenario involves multiple relationships, searching from one person to the next. Sometimes the Nine can't decide between two people. Triangulation. Paradoxically, this subtype can be fickle because they are so easily disappointed. Good movie examples include: Andie MacDowell, sex, lies and videotape; Ann-Margret, Carnal Knowledge; Shirley MacLaine, The Apartment; Joanne Woodward, Mr. And Mrs. Bridge.

    Social
    Social Nines tend to gravitate toward groups and then have conflicts about joining or staying apart. Can enjoy group energy and interests but may be also aware of the group's expectations. These the Nine will both play along with and resist. When immersed in a group, social Nines can lose themselves, trying to become all things to all people. Gregarious but may start to resist being too heavily influenced, to compensate for their sense of lost identity. Can sometimes resent how the group doesn't really see them. May fixate on what others think of them. Or resent the group and make fun of it. Some social Nines stay basically uninvolved but hang out at the group's edge. Frequently there's lots of activity. May get caught up in roles - a stronger connection to 3 goes with this subtype. Movie examples include: Jeff Bridges, Texasville; Sean Connery, The Russia House; Tom Cruise, Risky Business; Imelda Staunton, Antonia And Jane. Bill Clinton would be a real-life social Nine.
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  40. #40
    reyn_til_runa's Avatar
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    Here's an excellent site about the Enneagram.

    type 5

    instinctual stackings - general

    type five stacks

    5 Sexual/Self-pres (me)

    This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don’t want to consider.

    With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

    When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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