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Thread: Illusionary/Mirage Relations: Stories and Experiences

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    Blaze's Avatar
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    Default Illusionary/Mirage Relations: Stories and Experiences

    What have been our experiences with these? Rick's description differs from that of Gulenko....are these relations of "growing laziness" or where partners "do more, but talk less"?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    My personal experience was that the relationship was absolutely euphoric... until we decided to live together. It was about 5 months into the relationship and under not so great circumstances, but we both loved the idea of living together. He and I very rarely fought before we moved in together. When our relationship began, he seemed so perfect for me. He was my ex's contrary and seemed to be everything that my ex wasn't. Anyways, the very first day we were technically living together we were shopping for things we needed for the house and we got into a big fight in the middle of the store. Travis (who was then less than two years old) started making some noise and he barked at Travis to shut up... I lost it. I said, "Do NOT tell him to shut up." He didn't seem to understand why it was such a big deal. Some lady who was nearby commented that I was right, and he yelled at her, too. I still get pretty pissed off when I think about someone yelling at my son to shut up. Anyways...

    From there on out things got pretty shitty. There were a whole lot of bad circumstances involved... very, very low income due to both of us getting mono and my illness and surgery, stress with our room mate and his friends, and simply being in different life stages. Regardless, before we lived together we were very connected and communicated openly and honestly with each other. Once the relationship was shifted into "the real world" we were suddenly disconnected from each other, and he started allowing his friends to be more important to him than our relationship. It was a ridiculous mess that I don't often think about. The whole thing took place in just under a year, but when I think back on my life, he doesn't come to mind unless something else reminds me of him. At the end of the day, I'd sum up the whole mess as an embarrassment. Especially since I broke up with him like 4 times, and each time he managed to somehow smooth talk me into taking him back (something no one else has ever been able to do).

    I can see how being with my dual under the same circumstances could have turned out much, much differently.

    Ugh. Enough about that.
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    haha this photo is a good summary of our relationship... he's such a dumbass



    I wonder is he's still alive
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    Sounds like the Gulenko description runs truer for your illusionary relationship Joy. I take it he was an istj?

    I have had two of these kinds of relationships so far. The first one is hard to figure since he was smoking weed the whole time and I was an active alcoholic at the time. When I got into recovery I left him. The latest one is only a couple of months old and it seems great so far, but it seems he has the issue of "seeking independence" and wants to be sure I understand fully what that means.

    We have this head over heels attraction though. And can talk for hours. Seems like I like to be more active; he stays more relaxed.

    Do you think that living with your dual understand similar circumstances as your illusionary would have had similar results?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Do you think that living with your dual understand similar circumstances as your illusionary would have had similar results?
    No. It would have been rough, but it probably could have worked out if he'd been my dual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Do you think that living with your dual understand similar circumstances as your illusionary would have had similar results?
    No. It would have been rough, but it probably could have worked out if he'd been my dual.
    huh, kind of like the illusionary relationship cannot withstand a lot of stress or something.

    looking for more comments, peeps, has anyone else had this relation?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    huh, kind of like the illusionary relationship cannot withstand a lot of stress or something.

    looking for more comments, peeps, has anyone else had this relation?
    I haven't had a romantic relationship with an ISTj, no. I am good friends with an ISTj guy and with an ISTj woman, both over many years.

    I think "illusion" is an appropriate name since at first, at the beginning of the relationship, you may have precisely the illusion that it's your dual.

    Basically what happens, as you get closer, is that you reach a sort of -- barrier, beyond which the relationship doesn't progress. While in duality, in principle, all things being equal, the best you can do is be yourself, in illusion you realize that there is a point that if you are fully yourself, you annoy/confuse each other. So the relationship requires a bit of watching your step.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    One of my ISTj friends have quite recently become involved with an ENTj in a romantic relationship. I have only met her once, so I am not yet 100 % sure that she is an ENTj but the only other possible type for her is ESTj, and ENTj seems much more likely. Does anyone want to make some more predictions on how that relationship will evolve?

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    i always think that the relationship of Ross and Rachel on "Friends" is an illusionary relationship - entp-infp. they are madly attracted to one another but then something always goes wrong and they break up. but then they get over it and get back together. again and again.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    my personal experience with 4 Illusionary relations/friendships is everytime the same.

    - You like eachother.

    - In a group environment you prefer the company of your illusionary partner.

    - And you get lazy or tired while being together...

    And I even noticed this behaviour with an other illusionary couple too.


    I find Illusionary the most easy to notice relationship. It's also possible to notice it really early, sometimes after 5 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I think "illusion" is an appropriate name since at first, at the beginning of the relationship, you may have precisely the illusion that it's your dual.

    Basically what happens, as you get closer, is that you reach a sort of -- barrier, beyond which the relationship doesn't progress. While in duality, in principle, all things being equal, the best you can do is be yourself, in illusion you realize that there is a point that if you are fully yourself, you annoy/confuse each other. So the relationship requires a bit of watching your step.
    That's a good way to describe it.

    Basically your hidden agenda is being fulfilled and it's awesome, but as time goes by, problems or distance arises because your dual seeking function isn't being fulfilled.

    Perhaps your hidden agenda provides stimulation and your dual seeking function provides security?
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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Well, I was in an illusionary relationship and let me tell you, all of this is very true.

    However, I still believe it is one of the better intertype relations you can have, and if you work @ it, a relationship CAN work pretty well.. especially if your subtypes seem to match up. Ti & Fe I mean. I was INFp Fe and he was ENTp Ti I believe. I ended it not really because of disagreements.. it was just me not being attracted physically anymore, so to all you out there, Illusionary CAN work

    Plus, I generally really enjoy the company of ENTps. They are fun people and yeah, I notice that the Hidden Agenda being fulfilled really does provide a ton of stimulation.. I love it when ENTps get all "AWW, AWESOME JOB" because of them thinking they're good at Fe .. but yeah ...


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    Yeah, illusionary definately can't handle stress. My ENTp had just broken up with an ESFp and went on to me. The ESFp was one of my good friends so naturally this caused a lot of drama. I was very indecisive and the ENTp couldn't handle it. Eventually, we did get together somehow, it was really nice for a while, but there was always something missing. Plus everyone was against it (More stress). Then we started talking less, doing more blah blah, cheating ensued. Yeeey.

    Diamond, you say you talk alot? What do you like to discuss? When I was with the ENTp, it seemed like he didn't find anything I had to say as very interesting. Or we would chat, but never get deeper into anything. Like he didn't think I could handle his feelings on life and such. How do you view INFp's?

    I think it's both "growing laziness" and "do more, talk less". It's like, if we were just laying around doing nothing, we'd just fall asleep, get bored after a while. But if we were out eating, or walking around the park, it was okay, but felt a little forced... Also, when I was feeling down and mopey, he tried to lift my spirits, but I guess I needed Se or something. I couldn't be enthusiastic about anything with him. Felt like my energy was drained. And when I tried, it felt like it was in vain. I dunno how much of this is because of socionics or because of the cheating, I guess the stress and illusionary combined did it.
    INFp

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    yeah i was thinking that illusionary is actually better than semi-dual since you don't really like to hang out with the same people as your semi dual does. i think rick says this too. i've never been in a relationship with my semi dual, i don't think i'm attracted to delta/gamma groups. i also identify more with Fe hidden agenda than si dual seeking. it's hard for me to pin point si dual seeking behaviors or even to pin point satisfaction in getting a massive dose of si from others.

    but yeah scarlettlux i think you do have to do a little more work than with your dual. and make sure your expectations are in line with what your illusionary partner can give.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    @eliphalet: on talking, we talk about everything. all my crackpot theories and ideas including socionics, observations from the mental health field i work in and from his job, funny observations about people in general. he makes really really funny jokes and talks even more than i do about almost anything random. we can stay on the phone for like three hours. we talk about trends and how things can develop over time, possibilities, anything.

    we are a little more lazy right now since it is the beginning and you tend to stay inside a lot (LOL). but slowly we are moving outside and doing more stuff and are on the verge of meeting more of each other's people.

    i ask him if he needs forcefulness and he says i'm pretty forceful already. i dunno...maybe a relic of mine from living with an estp for 15 years? hahaha i've been estp'd over the years.

    i'd have to say he is Ni dominant and i'm Ne dominant which is where a lot of our talking comes from. then we give each other the right doses of our creative functions i guess. his Fe is pretty creative not overwhelming like an enfj guy i dated briefly. sometimes i feel like he knows how to change my mood and i know how to help him think about a problem or issue or something.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    erg, i hate these kinds of threads because i dont know what my type is. back when peter used to be entp and i was infp, i thought that was illusionary and fit pretty well but NOPE. and then i thought my boyfriend was entp, but now i think he is an INTp or ISTp. and now my type is either infp, isfp, enfp, or esfp.
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    yeah, that's where socionics starts to seem astrology-like for sure

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    We are a ENFp-INTp couple and it is true, you can't be yourself.

    She wants someone who is more purposeful and simpler. I'm simply just too intellectual and we often have disagreements about such stuff, specially religion. I bet INTp prefer more "dumb" ESFp who do not challenge but just listen to them, without analyzing anything.

    I want someone who is calm, easy to live with. She's too unstable and negative and always find a reason to be worried about something. I reasure her one day and the next week she's in doubt again. Also, while she is N she's really not interested in abstract theory, nor is she very willing to just listen to me because I need it.

    Thing is, we love each other, but I'm thinking that we love more the idealized person than the real one.
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    Default Illusionary aka Mirage Relations

    the16types.info on Illusionary Relations

    Does anyone have an experiences with Illusionary Relations they would like to share? For example, with a family member, coworker, friend, lover, etc.

    Also, do you believe there is any truth to the idea that you see a "false self" in your illusionary partner? If so, what is it exactly that you are perceiving you have in common and what is the basis for this?

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    Um, well, my boyfriend is ENTp, and I'm INFp...its comfy for the most part.

    Except my need for Se and such...kind of like right now I need it but my attempts to get it out of him failed.

    False self, I can identify with that. I have to act differently than what would be ideal to cope, and he does the same. So basically we just have to work a bit harder when problems come up, and work in a way we are not entirely comfortable, but are able to.

    Have in common? I'm not sure what that follow up question means..
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    ... Have in common? I'm not sure what that follow up question means..
    What qualities about your ENTp partner do you think you have in common?

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    False self is a strange description, I felt that we shared many interests. I could also feel we were drawn to eachother, and the feeling of lazyness I felt with everyone, with the exception of one person.

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    Illusionary pairs are pretty compatible... My parents are ESI-EIE and they really get along each other.

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    Default Re: Illusionary Relations

    Quote Originally Posted by astralsilky
    Also, do you believe there is any truth to the idea that you see a "false self" in your illusionary partner? If so, what is it exactly that you are perceiving you have in common and what is the basis for this?
    Not sure what you mean.

    Your illusionary partner shares the same temperament as your dual, and the same creative function. So it's faitly easy to have the "illusion" that they're your dual, especially as long as the relationship remains fairly superficial. As it gets deeper, problems and misunderstandings start to arise.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Um, well, my boyfriend is ENTp, and I'm INFp...its comfy for the most part.

    Except my need for Se and such...kind of like right now I need it but my attempts to get it out of him failed.

    False self, I can identify with that. I have to act differently than what would be ideal to cope, and he does the same. So basically we just have to work a bit harder when problems come up, and work in a way we are not entirely comfortable, but are able to.

    Have in common? I'm not sure what that follow up question means..
    what kinda Se you looking for aurora? :-)

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Clover
    Um, well, my boyfriend is ENTp, and I'm INFp...its comfy for the most part.

    Except my need for Se and such...kind of like right now I need it but my attempts to get it out of him failed.

    False self, I can identify with that. I have to act differently than what would be ideal to cope, and he does the same. So basically we just have to work a bit harder when problems come up, and work in a way we are not entirely comfortable, but are able to.

    Have in common? I'm not sure what that follow up question means..
    what kinda Se you looking for aurora? :-)
    hot!

    +2

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    *poof*

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    i don't think my dual isfp would particularly enjoy a lot of philosophical or intellectual talk the way the infp does. i could be wrong though.
    I deffinately like the "let me tell ya somethin motherfucker...." part

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I dated my illusionary for about 3 months. I definitely identify with the "false self" part: we thought about lots of the same things, had many of the same ideals, enjoyed plenty of the same activities, etc etc. There was also an obvious complimentary part of the relationship, which I feel like we tried to develop, but it just wasn't there; it all basically went downhill when we strayed from the focus on commonality and began to actually *need* things from one another.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    I dated my illusionary for about 3 months. I definitely identify with the "false self" part: we thought about lots of the same things, had many of the same ideals, enjoyed plenty of the same activities, etc etc. There was also an obvious complimentary part of the relationship, which I feel like we tried to develop, but it just wasn't there; it all basically went downhill when we strayed from the focus on commonality and began to actually *need* things from one another.
    what did you need from her, in practical terms?

    @BG: yeah that phrase is hysterical....am i right or wrong about philosophy you think?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Well, I was extremely depressed, so really I needed someone who could tell not just that I was in a bad mood and try to cheer me up, but that there was something seriously wrong with me, and actually help motivate me into helping myself instead of just letting me wallow in my misery and depend on what little time I had with her for happiness. At the end of our relationship, she told me that I made her feel "inadequate" because she couldn't help me like she thought she could.

    (For the record, she may have been EIE.)
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  32. #32
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    depends on how the philosophy thing pans out... like if it's just off the top of your head freestyle philosophy (think stoner talk) I'd be all over it. But if your like quoting Nitchze or whatever like some damn fool it would get old quick and lead to much ... actually I'd probably just tune it out or redirect it into something else if you were doing that. Probably tease you about it afterwards or turn it into sexual inuendo too.

    As far as intellectual topics go... I like the random "hey listen to this cool shit right here!" sort of stuff (I do that alot myself with my friends). It's all about being a catalyst for more "stoner vision" sort of thinking though. Like "how can we use this to make our own army of monkey assasains to take over the world with?"

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    @Gilly: huh. i could see that. is that Si? who broke up with who? i ask because i was in a relationship with an enfj, i broke up with him, he was really cool the best boyfriend i had when young, really, but you know i just needed to be on my own or something and he couldn't help me. (but alcohol sure did, at least i thought so at the time).

    @BG: yes i'm more random. i wouldn't quote Nietsche (sp?). but i'm so done being a stoner, i only like to joke about it these days. as in "who spilled bong water all over this newspaper??" hahaha

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    depends on how the philosophy thing pans out... like if it's just off the top of your head freestyle philosophy (think stoner talk) I'd be all over it. But if your like quoting Nitchze or whatever like some damn fool it would get old quick and lead to much ... actually I'd probably just tune it out or redirect it into something else if you were doing that. Probably tease you about it afterwards or turn it into sexual inuendo too.

    As far as intellectual topics go... I like the random "hey listen to this cool shit right here!" sort of stuff (I do that alot myself with my friends). It's all about being a catalyst for more "stoner vision" sort of thinking though. Like "how can we use this to make our own army of monkey assasains to take over the world with?"
    This is your entry speech for your official induction into the Alpha Quadra
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    huh. i could see that. is that Si?
    More like S in general. It didn't help that she was Ni sub.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    depends on how the philosophy thing pans out... like if it's just off the top of your head freestyle philosophy (think stoner talk) I'd be all over it. But if your like quoting Nitchze or whatever like some damn fool it would get old quick and lead to much ... actually I'd probably just tune it out or redirect it into something else if you were doing that. Probably tease you about it afterwards or turn it into sexual inuendo too.

    As far as intellectual topics go... I like the random "hey listen to this cool shit right here!" sort of stuff (I do that alot myself with my friends). It's all about being a catalyst for more "stoner vision" sort of thinking though. Like "how can we use this to make our own army of monkey assasains to take over the world with?"
    This is your entry speech for your official induction into the Alpha Quadra

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GillySaysGoodbye
    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    depends on how the philosophy thing pans out... like if it's just off the top of your head freestyle philosophy (think stoner talk) I'd be all over it. But if your like quoting Nitchze or whatever like some damn fool it would get old quick and lead to much ... actually I'd probably just tune it out or redirect it into something else if you were doing that. Probably tease you about it afterwards or turn it into sexual inuendo too.

    As far as intellectual topics go... I like the random "hey listen to this cool shit right here!" sort of stuff (I do that alot myself with my friends). It's all about being a catalyst for more "stoner vision" sort of thinking though. Like "how can we use this to make our own army of monkey assasains to take over the world with?"
    This is your entry speech for your official induction into the Alpha Quadra
    Yes!!! when's the induction ceremony??

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/demonmaxwell/01-28-06_1408.jpg

    here's the guy that says, "Let me tell ya somethin motherfucker...."

    can't you totally picture him saying that? lol
    LOL yes I can!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/demonmaxwell/01-28-06_1408.jpg

    here's the guy that says, "Let me tell ya somethin motherfucker...."

    can't you totally picture him saying that? lol
    LOL yes I can!
    LOL!!!!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I just came out of a 6 1/2 month relationship with an INFp...

    - "growing laziness"

    This was really weird: after a few hours of interaction I'd find myself unable to keep my eyes open while looking at her, I'd have to look away to feel comfortable, and i'd begin to feel trapped. It was like having a bright light in my face. One time it went away after I talked to her about some journal articles i'd read the night before that had made me excited. So I think this must be a symptom of leading function suppression - I've found the same thing with two ESFp's only with them it happened immediately.
    However she, (the infp) couldn't empathize with this feeling so it may be just me.

    - dissatisfied dual-seeking functions

    The few times in the relationship when i felt completely fulfilled were immediately after she'd done this thing where we'd be facing each other and she'd slowly, tenderly, cover my cheeks with kisses with this look of contentment on her face. I spent a lot of time feeling starved of affection, wishing she'd be more hedonistic. It annoyed me she was usually too anxious about uni to allow us the time required for to get in the right mood to make sex. "I'm not aroused right now and i don't want to let myself be aroused" - i never understood this. From her point of view - she wanted me to be confident and to not be needy - when I felt starved of affection she could see it and it would make it impossible for her to feel affectionate. A downward spiral of mutual dissatisfaction.
    ENTp

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